zzufrevaeb
Sophomore
Not beaverfuzz
hi
Posts: 1,502 
|
Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 6, 2019 12:17:11 GMT -8
Hunt needs to play more period.
|
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on Nov 6, 2019 13:38:39 GMT -8
Hunt needs to play more period. Yeah, I was disappointed not to see more of him. As I posted earlier, I’m hopeful that the relative lack of bench use in the opener was because of the importance of game two and three. To win those, he’s probably only going to go 8 deep — Vernon, Lucas and SMM — plus some bigs. Didn’t play Vernon cuz feels comfortable with him and wanted to get other two as much time as possible for prep. Not sure I totally believe that but is plausible. After game 3 schedule is pretty easy until conference, so hopefully that is when we see Hunt, Franklin and others get some real time. If not there may be something to WT not being able to help himself. For most of the remaining non-conference games after game 3, we really should see TT at about 28-30 mpg, ET 25-28, KK 25, and Hollins and Reichle some combination of 35-40. That leaves about 75 minutes for others players to see what they have. To make sure that happens I’d almost like to see substitutions scripted at preset times — at least for parts of the game. Not ideal but at least the bench would get some experience. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 14:16:44 GMT -8
Hunt needs to play more period. Yeah, I was disappointed not to see more of him. As I posted earlier, I’m hopeful that the relative lack of bench use in the opener was because of the importance of game two and three. To win those, he’s probably only going to go 8 deep — Vernon, Lucas and SMM — plus some bigs. Didn’t play Vernon cuz feels comfortable with him and wanted to get other two as much time as possible for prep. Not sure I totally believe that but is plausible. After game 3 schedule is pretty easy until conference, so hopefully that is when we see Hunt, Franklin and others get some real time. If not there may be something to WT not being able to help himself. For most of the remaining non-conference games after game 3, we really should see TT at about 28-30 mpg, ET 25-28, KK 25, and Hollins and Reichle some combination of 35-40. That leaves about 75 minutes for others players to see what they have. To make sure that happens I’d almost like to see substitutions scripted at preset times — at least for parts of the game. Not ideal but at least the bench would get some experience. KK going 25 would be ideal because it would keep him fresh but i wouldnt be surprised if hes way over 30 a game because who else is soaking up those minutes? One thing i would like to see is sharper elbows from KK and see him initiate the body contact on block outs. Northridge was trying to pile drive him at the legs to keep him from going vertical. It's better to give contact than receive it. And with his physique refs are less likely to call him for foul with that type of contact. |
|
|
|
Post by obf on Nov 6, 2019 14:21:11 GMT -8
If I was the coach, this is the minutes distributions I would be going for:
Main Star
Tres Tinkle: 30-35
Main Starters
KK: 25-30
ET: 25-30
Important Role Players
ZR: 15-20
SMM: 15-20
Vernon: 10-15
Tall Foul Soaker (Datsrup/Silva): 10-15
Old projects that you can't just give Zero minutes to
Alfred: 5-10
Young up and comers needing grooming / capable of breakout games
Jared Lucas: 20-25
Gianni Hunt: 10-15
Young projects
Franklin: 5-10
Tucker: 0-5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 18:29:54 GMT -8
If I was the coach, this is the minutes distributions I would be going for: Main StarTres Tinkle: 30-35 Main StartersKK: 25-30 ET: 25-30 Important Role PlayersZR: 15-20 SMM: 15-20 Vernon: 10-15 Tall Foul Soaker (Datsrup/Silva): 10-15 Old projects that you can't just give Zero minutes toAlfred: 5-10 Young up and comers needing grooming / capable of breakout games Jared Lucas: 20-25 Gianni Hunt: 10-15 Young projectsFranklin: 5-10 Tucker: 0-5 I think Hollins can play better full court D than any of those new guys. Beavs need to be a transition team this year and that needs stretchy guys like Hollins who can run and disrupt. He needs to play and play well. |
|
|
|
Post by pabeaver on Nov 6, 2019 20:22:42 GMT -8
Old projects that you can't just give Zero minutes toAlfred: 5-10 I think Hollins can play better full court D than any of those new guys. Beavs need to be a transition team this year and that needs stretchy guys like Hollins who can run and disrupt. He needs to play and play well. I don’t see it, and I don’t think it is magically going to happen. |
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Nov 6, 2019 20:34:05 GMT -8
I was annoyed Tinkle was in at sub 4 minutes with a 20 point lead. And I know many of us get on the elder Tinkle's case about his rotation... but honestly I really do not think he operates any differently than basically any other college coach.
I have looked at the 2018 team stats of the pac-12 teams, and a couple other high profile teams. Guys, guess what, it is like a broken record. 4 dudes average 35+ minute. two dudes split like 25 minutes and it falls off a cliff after that.
Most teams have a starting 5 that dominate the minutes. Most team have reserves that average sub 10 minutes. Most teams only see significant reserve minutes (10-20) with one player, sometimes on good and deep teams.
I know what is ideal and what we want. I am unconvinced Tinkle is some outlier in the big picture. I want to see reserves playing in games in hand, I want to see up playing more guys when we can. I just don't think Tinkle is unconventional in how he has managed minutes. in fact, I think he is painfully, exactly, average.
|
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Nov 6, 2019 23:49:25 GMT -8
I was annoyed Tinkle was in at sub 4 minutes with a 20 point lead. And I know many of us get on the elder Tinkle's case about his rotation... but honestly I really do not think he operates any differently than basically any other college coach. I have looked at the 2018 team stats of the pac-12 teams, and a couple other high profile teams. Guys, guess what, it is like a broken record. 4 dudes average 35+ minute. two dudes split like 25 minutes and it falls off a cliff after that. Most teams have a starting 5 that dominate the minutes. Most team have reserves that average sub 10 minutes. Most teams only see significant reserve minutes (10-20) with one player, sometimes on good and deep teams. I know what is ideal and what we want. I am unconvinced Tinkle is some outlier in the big picture. I want to see reserves playing in games in hand, I want to see up playing more guys when we can. I just don't think Tinkle is unconventional in how he has managed minutes. in fact, I think he is painfully, exactly, average. Hmmm... since your post seems to have the tone of some kind of arrogant chastising let's just see about a few items you pontificate on: Minutes played leaders by team (top 8): 30.8, 28.8, 28.1, 24.8, 24.9, 24.9, 24.4, 19.2 32.6, 32.4, 31.5, 29.3, 29.0, 25.0, 17.4, 13.1 34.5, 34.4, 32.6, 28.4, 20.6, 19.6, 16.0, 11.7 30.5, 28.9, 26.2, 25.9, 25.5, 21.1, 21.1, 17.3 35.5, 30.5, 27.0, 24.3, 24.0, 19.1, 17.9, 14.7 36.6, 36.4, 34.4, 23.5, 21.2, 19.2, 15.3, 10.9 32.7, 30.3, 28.6, 28.3, 25.1, 22.3, 16.0, 12.7 31.7, 31.2, 24.5, 23.3, 20.2, 19.7, 17.5, 17.4 33.5, 33.2, 30.0, 27.8, 27.7, 24.2, 22.1, 20.4 32.3, 28.7, 27.3, 24.2, 21.9, 20.1, 20.0, 12.4 34.4, 33.0, 31.1, 25.9, 22.5, 20.5, 17.9, 11.7 34.4, 30.6, 24.2, 21.3, 20.9, 18.1, 17.9, 16.5, So, it seems no team in the Pac12 has (4) dudes getting 35 min/game... or even close! Several teams have multiple starters and subs at 20+ minutes... OSU had ZERO subs get 20 min/game. Seems as multiple reserves on many teams are getting 10-20 min/game not just one. So you looked this up? Hmmmm... I'll go with just making it up on the fly to make a point, as I'm pretty sure you can read a stat sheet. NO Pac12 team had 4 players with 35+ min... NONE. Only two teams had (3) players at 32+ min. I was pretty sure before even looking that OSU had the three highest combined over 30 min/game... 36, 36, 34 (3 of the top 8 in the league)... and, had the worst bench minutes... after Vernon (8th in minutes played) only ONE other player saw action who finished the season, WW at 7.8 min/game. Most other Pac12 teams had player 9, even 10 or 11 get 3-10+ min/game. And, to my knowledge no one complained WT was an outlier... completely a made up assertion by you as not one poster stated his substitutions were so different than other coaches. Simple conversation involving WT getting lower level recruits/classes, developing players, not losing players he does get, not risking injury to those who will carry an inexperienced team, and how playing time is a factor. Really not a crazy discussion at all... |
|
|
|
Post by obf on Nov 7, 2019 9:13:54 GMT -8
I think Hollins can play better full court D than any of those new guys. Beavs need to be a transition team this year and that needs stretchy guys like Hollins who can run and disrupt. He needs to play and play well. I don’t see it, and I don’t think it is magically going to happen. Many of Alfred's peers are starting their second year in the NBA... It isn't like we gave him a 3 game trial and said, "Nahhhhhh". Hollins has played in 63 games, started 25, well over 1,000 minutes ( Alfreds bbref page), and like I said, AH is a super athlete, he just isn't a basketball player. People have said for 2 years now that AH could be great on defense, emphasis on "could". Long, lean, stretchy, fast, yes those are all adjectives that describe him, but good at defense is not. No one would accuse Tres at being as athletic as Alfred, or a great defender eitehr, but he at least has active hands and is willing to slid in front of/under a driving player and take a charge, two demostrable defense skills, other than those ethereal athletic adjectives I can't point to an actual demostrable defensive skill of Alfreds. IOW, Tres is a better defender than Alfred, regardles of the raw athleisism. I like Alfred, I have nothing against him personally, he just isn't a very good basketball player, certainly not good enough to be starting on a power five team looking to go to the dance. |
|
|
|
Post by obf on Nov 7, 2019 9:33:02 GMT -8
atownbeaver -- While I appreciate the nuance and rationalism of your post, I think another look at the data is in order, as baseballll points out, WT IS an outlier. Especially when you start comparing him to other good coaches, not just other pac-12 teams. If anyone should be tempted to overuse players it should be the coaches that have a handful of 5 star one and done players, but even John Calapari, Bill Self, Mike Ksjaljihoiznejnxxa! (seriously I am not trying to spell his name, and am not going to look it up) don't player their starters 35+ minutes. 30-34 seems to be the going rate even for guys like Zion Williamson and RJ Barret, etc. baseba1111 -- Thanks for providing the data, and you are absolutely correct, however the delicious irony of this: being in a reply that is chastising someone, and also with the backdrop of your other ~8,000 posts, had me litterally laughing out loud, thanks for the hearty laugh, I needed it this morning  There is probably an apropriete adage about planks and eyes, but I wouldn't want to chastise anyone 
|
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Nov 7, 2019 9:37:45 GMT -8
atownbeaver -- While I appreciate the nuance and rationalism of your post, I think another look at the data is in order, as baseballll points out, WT IS an outlier. Especially when you start comparing him to other good coaches, not just other pac-12 teams. If anyone should be tempted to overuse players it should be the coaches that have a handful of 5 star one and done players, but even John Calapari, Bill Self, Mike Ksjaljihoiznejnxxa! (seriously I am not trying to spell his name, and am not going to look it up) don't player their starters 35+ minutes. 30-34 seems to be the going rate even for guys like Zion Williamson and RJ Barret, etc. baseba1111 -- Thanks for providing the data, and you are absolutely correct, however the delicious irony of this: being in a reply that is chastising someone, and also with the backdrop of your other ~8,000 posts, had me litterally laughing out loud, thanks for the hearty laugh, I needed it this morning There is probably an apropriete adage about planks and eyes, but I wouldn't want to chastise anyone Excuse the excuse... but, that was the intent... sarcastically chastising the chastiser! But, use actual facts. And, you're right, coming from me I'm sure there will be a reply... |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 7, 2019 11:04:41 GMT -8
Some of Miller's best teams played mostly 6-7 players much of the time, I think I recall one game he didn't sub at all. Not that it's relevant to the conversation.
It'll be interesting to see how the minutes work out this year. I'm wondering if the playtime issue hasn't been out of necessity. It's not like the team has been 10 deep in Pac 12 quality players the last several years. To me this team, the very little I've seen of it, seems deeper than any he's had at OSU.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 11:24:51 GMT -8
Some of Miller's best teams played mostly 6-7 players much of the time, I think I recall one game he didn't sub at all. Not that it's relevant to the conversation. It'll be interesting to see how the minutes work out this year. I'm wondering if the playtime issue hasn't been out of necessity. It's not like the team has been 10 deep in Pac 12 quality players the last several years. To me this team, the very little I've seen of it, seems deeper than any he's had at OSU. i dont see it, yet. The math so far is not penciling out on that statement because Glig was really a bench player and nobody on the current bench is even close to replacing him. Huge loss because WaWa was at least 10 min per game ready. Silva is the only post addition and is not 10 min per game ready and honestly looks too slow for conference ball. The only bench guy who could heavily contribute seems like Lucas. Hope some other candidates emerge. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Nov 7, 2019 11:39:34 GMT -8
Some of Miller's best teams played mostly 6-7 players much of the time, I think I recall one game he didn't sub at all. Not that it's relevant to the conversation. It'll be interesting to see how the minutes work out this year. I'm wondering if the playtime issue hasn't been out of necessity. It's not like the team has been 10 deep in Pac 12 quality players the last several years. To me this team, the very little I've seen of it, seems deeper than any he's had at OSU. i dont see it, yet. The math so far is not penciling out on that statement because Glig was really a bench player and nobody on the current bench is even close to replacing him. Huge loss because WaWa was at least 10 min per game ready. Silva is the only post addition and is not 10 min per game ready and honestly looks too slow for conference ball. The only bench guy who could heavily contribute seems like Lucas. Hope some other candidates emerge. If Silva plays much, I think we're in trouble. I'm hoping that Dastrup can get up to speed "literally" I think we've added guard & wing depth, but the middle is still my concern. |
|
|
|
Post by obf on Nov 7, 2019 13:17:07 GMT -8
Some of Miller's best teams played mostly 6-7 players much of the time, I think I recall one game he didn't sub at all. Not that it's relevant to the conversation. It'll be interesting to see how the minutes work out this year. I'm wondering if the playtime issue hasn't been out of necessity. It's not like the team has been 10 deep in Pac 12 quality players the last several years. To me this team, the very little I've seen of it, seems deeper than any he's had at OSU. For me Warren Washington is the canary in the coal mine on this theory. Warren was 100% Pac-12 quality, had already show flashes and aptitude IN PAC-12 play, and yet still his minutes fell off to practically nothing as the season wore on. IIRC injuries and/or fouls thinned the rotation which led to WW's increased minutes to begin Pac-12 play, and even though he was more than holding his own, and helping in Pac-12 wins, for whatever reason (someone remind me, did Big G come back from injury orsomething? Did he find the doghouse for some reason?) the last 13 games of the season he got little more than token minutes. Not only is this a "fairness" issue (ok, ok, I know there is no such thing as "fair"), and a load management issue for the starters (which WT readily admits to), it is a developmental / recruitment / retainment issue. WW would be a HUGE boon to our front line right now! How good would a starting line up like this look! PG : Ethan SG : Zach (soon to be Jared?) SF: Tres PF: Warren WashingtonC: Kylor Then a second unit of: PG: Gianni/Vernon SG: Lucas SF: SMM Large Foul Soaker: Dastrup/Silva/Dearon Now that is starting to look like a deep team! |
|
