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Post by jimbeav on Oct 28, 2015 14:57:39 GMT -8
I was disappointed to not see Collins and Nall on the field very much at the same time Saturday night. To my virgin eyes, that looks like a WICKED combination for a spread option attack. I don't think defenses particularly feared Storm's runs up the middle, but you know they can tell when Nall is the one in that pile. And just as they start cheating to stop that threat, Collins can fake the handoff and take it to the edge as well as any QB I've ever seen in a duck uniform.
If I'm the OC, I build a gameplan that consists of about 40-50% read option run plays, along with a healthy dose of traditional power running plays, designed QB runs, and fly sweeps. I would also accept the fact that we have serious trouble both throwing and catching the football, and limit pass plays to no more than 20-25% of the play calls, only on long 3rd downs and as an occasional mixup on specific drives. And when I do throw it, I make sure they're normal pocket pass type plays. Any time Seth tries to throw it quickly, either immediately after the snap, or immediately after a fake handoff, he's way off target. If he takes a second to gather himself and throw, he's not too bad.
Am I being too simplistic? Probably. But I don't see a better way to maximize our strengths and minimize our weaknesses (which are numerous).
GO BEAVS!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 15:36:19 GMT -8
I agree on having Collins and Nall in the backfield at the same time. I think the coaches made a big mistake not doing that the last couple of possessions, possibly in hopes that Mitchell would somehow start throwing decent passes on a consistent basis - which didn't happen. There was no way Nall was going to be able to carry the Beavs down the field on his own given his success that night. Colorado simply was hellbent on stopping him. With Collins, we would have had another weapon for them to think about. They had no reason to be worried about our passing attack at that point.
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Post by nabeav on Oct 28, 2015 17:14:00 GMT -8
I think the coaches have said that when Collins was in Colorado was putting 9 men in the box, making any sort of run game difficult. However, when Mitchell came in, the safeties stayed back, allowing more running room for Nall.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 17:52:03 GMT -8
I was disappointed to not see Collins and Nall on the field very much at the same time Saturday night. To my virgin eyes, that looks like a WICKED combination for a spread option attack. I don't think defenses particularly feared Storm's runs up the middle, but you know they can tell when Nall is the one in that pile. And just as they start cheating to stop that threat, Collins can fake the handoff and take it to the edge as well as any QB I've ever seen in a duck uniform. If I'm the OC, I build a gameplan that consists of about 40-50% read option run plays, along with a healthy dose of traditional power running plays, designed QB runs, and fly sweeps. I would also accept the fact that we have serious trouble both throwing and catching the football, and limit pass plays to no more than 20-25% of the play calls, only on long 3rd downs and as an occasional mixup on specific drives. And when I do throw it, I make sure they're normal pocket pass type plays. Any time Seth tries to throw it quickly, either immediately after the snap, or immediately after a fake handoff, he's way off target. If he takes a second to gather himself and throw, he's not too bad. Am I being too simplistic? Probably. But I don't see a better way to maximize our strengths and minimize our weaknesses (which are numerous). GO BEAVS! I would run the play mix roughly 50-50, Mitchell and Collins. We need the longer developing pass patterns to keep their guys out of the box and I think, for some reason, the longer drop is unnatural for Collins and more natural for Mitchell. I think the coaching staff expects Mitchell to settle down more. If he continues to throw it at the receivers' feet, then scrap the idea. To my eye, Seth throws better on the run than from a set up pocket. I'm not worried about Collins and Nall not being on the field together, for the upcoming game at least. The last I heard, we are down to two running backs, Storm and Nall. And Storm continues to have injury issues. I think we see a lot of Nall. Which I'm looking forward to. We haven't had a reliable power back since Jackson. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 28, 2015 21:35:24 GMT -8
I'll disagree, sort of, as no one really mentioned the key component to said "fearsome" running game... the O line.
Right now we are not athletic enough in that position. In the spread you need big, strong flat bellies that can move in space. I believe we are in a transition and the O line will be our biggest area of change.
Getting good to great O linemen is tough, but with the spread you don't
necessarily need "road graders". Bulking up TE and guard types that can move and have long arms and good feet. To create angles, to spread the D you need good splits and linemen who can move...to pull...to block back...and get to the 2nd level.
When we see a more athletic line we will see a vast improvement in this offense. Right now we are trying to run spread principles with a pro style line/splits and it's simply to easy for defenses to force reads and still recover.
Similarly with our D, to play a solid 3-4 you need STUD DTs... guys who control A gap to A gap... DE who are big but also athletic to take on tackles but still get a pass rush. Right now we can't set an edge... our LBs can run, but they get caught in traffic as or D line can't get a mix in penetration. Without freedom LBs can't read, find a crease and attack. We're always catching or out of position. When you're reactive on D you slow the offensive player to dictate play, hence all the missed tackles. Once we make the offense react to our pressure well be much better. But, that will not happen on either side until we "create" strong athletic line play.
IMHO that is at least a two class/year development process.I think we'll see remarkable improvement starting next season.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 5:51:28 GMT -8
I'll disagree, sort of, as no one really mentioned the key component to said "fearsome" running game... the O line. Right now we are not athletic enough in that position. In the spread you need big, strong flat bellies that can move in space. I believe we are in a transition and the O line will be our biggest area of change. Getting good to great O linemen is tough, but with the spread you don't necessarily need "road graders". Bulking up TE and guard types that can move and have long arms and good feet. To create angles, to spread the D you need good splits and linemen who can move...to pull...to block back...and get to the 2nd level. When we see a more athletic line we will see a vast improvement in this offense. Right now we are trying to run spread principles with a pro style line/splits and it's simply to easy for defenses to force reads and still recover. Similarly with our D, to play a solid 3-4 you need STUD DTs... guys who control A gap to A gap... DE who are big but also athletic to take on tackles but still get a pass rush. Right now we can't set an edge... our LBs can run, but they get caught in traffic as or D line can't get a mix in penetration. Without freedom LBs can't read, find a crease and attack. We're always catching or out of position. When you're reactive on D you slow the offensive player to dictate play, hence all the missed tackles. Once we make the offense react to our pressure well be much better. But, that will not happen on either side until we "create" strong athletic line play. IMHO that is at least a two class/year development process.I think we'll see remarkable improvement starting next season. Sounds like the remedy for the problems you identify (with which I agree) is wholesale changes in personnel on both offensive and defensive lines. On this team, I don't see the replacement personnel. This year's recruiting class, so far, includes zero offensive linemen, two DE prospects who are serious weight room time away from being studs. I suspect next year's team will be a lot more consistent than this year, given the time in the new system and staff finding the players. I don't look for 40 points scored on us in one half. In other words, I think next year will go about like I expected this year to go (and was wrong). But I think remarkable improvement is going to have to wait for more than one recruiting class. It probably will take several. |
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Post by tarpedseats on Oct 29, 2015 7:22:42 GMT -8
It seems to me that Collins is having a lot of issue with making correct reads on zone running plays. I think this more than his throwing issues is limiting his play and the overall offense. Valid or no?
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Post by osuflattailgater on Oct 29, 2015 7:49:54 GMT -8
Wonder how Tim Cook is doing. Baldwin seemed pretty high on him before he got hurt and I was anxious to see him play. If I remember right he has only next year and that's it.
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Post by spudbeaver on Oct 29, 2015 8:00:40 GMT -8
It seems to me that Collins is having a lot of issue with making correct reads on zone running plays. I think this more than his throwing issues is limiting his play and the overall offense. Valid or no? I think so. Many times I've wondered if he isn't selfish with the read and trying to do too much on his own. He is exciting though. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 8:10:10 GMT -8
Wonder how Tim Cook is doing. Baldwin seemed pretty high on him before he got hurt and I was anxious to see him play. If I remember right he has only next year and that's it. They will apply for a medical redshirt. Don't know whether its a sure thing or not. |
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Post by tarpedseats on Oct 29, 2015 8:15:14 GMT -8
It seems to me that Collins is having a lot of issue with making correct reads on zone running plays. I think this more than his throwing issues is limiting his play and the overall offense. Valid or no? I think so. Many times I've wondered if he isn't selfish with the read and trying to do too much on his own. He is exciting though. I hope Collins continues to mature in the mental aspect of his position because physically he is electric. Will be curious to see if he gets a redshirt year if Garretson proves out. |
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Post by zebraworks on Oct 29, 2015 12:21:48 GMT -8
Wonder how Tim Cook is doing. Baldwin seemed pretty high on him before he got hurt and I was anxious to see him play. If I remember right he has only next year and that's it. They will apply for a medical redshirt. Don't know whether its a sure thing or not. he didn't even play a single down, he for sure would get a Medical redshirt. hopefully there is not some other reason he would be limited to only one season. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 19:08:08 GMT -8
I agree except I'd use Collins and Nall in a more traditional offense most of the time. Just hand it off, throw it, or let the QB run. I think that could work out quite well. Go Beavs!
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Oct 31, 2015 8:14:53 GMT -8
They will apply for a medical redshirt. Don't know whether its a sure thing or not. he didn't even play a single down, he for sure would get a Medical redshirt. hopefully there is not some other reason he would be limited to only one season. You only can receive a medical redshirt if you've missed two seasons due to injury. Rosters lists him as a Redshirt junior so I'm not sure if he missed a year in JC due to injury. |
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