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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 12:41:58 GMT -8
Predicting the Starting 5What does the starting lineup look like when the team tips off for the 2019-20 season? ======= Where I think these guys are way off base is in putting MW at center. What matters is how they play against the good teams, the tough competition. We could cruise through weak opponents and MW's inability to get a shot off against a taller, quicker player won't matter at all. Come crunch time, vs Stanford, the duckies, or NCAA playoff opponents, her lack of offense and defense vs taller players and poor rebounding are unworkable. A 6'1" center without a great vertical jump just doesn't cut the mustard. If you have to bench MW for the entire season to get a more natural center like TJ or PM or JM up to speed for the games that matter, then SR had better be willing to do it....
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Post by beaverwbb fan on Aug 25, 2019 13:07:46 GMT -8
Agreed... if you’re going to get away with a 6-0/6-1 center in the Pac-12, they have to have Michaela Onyenwere level athleticism. I still think Maddie Washington will find valuable minutes, I’m just not sure they will come at the 5. I noticed she attempted a three yesterday, so maybe she is working on being more of a 3/4 like she was at the HS level, as she was a wing.
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Post by bvrbooster on Aug 25, 2019 15:03:22 GMT -8
I just don't envision starting Maddie at center, nor should Thropay be considered. Neither is up to the task, and that's not a knock on either of them. I think Scott needs to tell all the bigs that, during the preconference schedule, he's going to move each of them around a lot to see who fits best where. But I'd probably begin with Trish at center, giving both Jones and Brown minutes backing her up. That also leaves minutes for Brown and Jones to show what they can do at the 3 and 4 spots.
But Maddie can get tons of minutes playing the post between now and December 31st; when conference play starts, she'll still be but 6'1'.
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Post by beavsteve on Aug 25, 2019 15:12:00 GMT -8
I just don't envision starting Maddie at center, nor should Thropay be considered. Neither is up to the task, and that's not a knock on either of them. I think Scott needs to tell all the bigs that, during the preconference schedule, he's going to move each of them around a lot to see who fits best where. But I'd probably begin with Trish at center, giving both Jones and Brown minutes backing her up. That also leaves minutes for Brown and Jones to show what they can do at the 3 and 4 spots. But Maddie can get tons of minutes playing the post between now and December 31st; when conference play starts, she'll still be but 6'1'. I agree, except that I would play Brown only at the 4 and give her a chance to play 3 (as she desires). When you consider that Mitrovic is likely to be recovered and ready at the beginning of the season, we have Trish, Jelena, and Taylor to play center, so we don’t need Brown there. Between those 3, there is no fear of foul trouble at that position, as each of them can come in and protect the rim. |
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Post by beaveragain on Aug 25, 2019 16:08:02 GMT -8
My disagreements with the article.
1- Experimenting in the WNIT tournament- SR will go with what he feels is his best starting 5 until the games in the bag. Otherwise you don't get to the next game.
2- Maddie can't score or defend against anyone 6'3"+ by the basket. But against shorter posts she does just fine. I'm hoping that she gets to play outside a little as her mid-range jumper was really hitting by the end of the season.
3- They talked a lot about the Frosh post possibilities but kept leaving out Trish, and by the end of last season she'd made as much progress as I've seen one person make in a year. If she keeps improving that much during the off season I have a hard time seeing her sitting on the bench.
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Post by nwhoopfan on Aug 25, 2019 17:00:53 GMT -8
Count me among those that want to see actual post players in the post. With the size this team has, no reason to go with undersized lineups except situationally.
It is hard to project the starting lineup without knowing the status/availability of several players.
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Post by willtalk on Aug 25, 2019 18:53:13 GMT -8
Count me among those that want to see actual post players in the post. With the size this team has, no reason to go with undersized lineups except situationally. It is hard to project the starting lineup without knowing the status/availability of several players. I don't see a situation that would prompt an undersized line up. The undersize line up needs to have an advantage to it to justify it. That would not happen unless they went with an all guard lineup. Going small in the post would be Jones. Washington is just too short to justifiable play post on this team. Both Jones and Trish are just as quick defensively. If Trish learned to challenge the shots of players in front of her she would be a really good defender. I already suspect that Jones is. There are just too many post players on this team to have them compete with players playing out of position. What needs to be remembered is that those players need to get time on the court to justify them staying at OS. No need for this team to play anyone at the 5 and 4 out of position. In fact it makes more sense to try to move some of those taller players out to the perimeter. Leave the post to Trish, Jones and Jalena. The 4 to Brown, AA ( when she comes into the mix) and Jones (swing with the 5). And gradually transition Brown to the three. I know no one wants to say it but sometimes players just are pushed down the depth chart by better players or options. That is what happened to Taylor Kalmer. Taylor could still contribute, but was pushed down by better players. That happens all the time in the top programs in D1 basketball. Tweeners have always had a hard time at this level. They are not tall enough to play the post or quick enough or possess the skill level to play away from the basket. That becomes compounded when a program is constantly improving the level of their talent. Sometimes a player just isn't suited to the offense or the players they are on the court with. We saw what happened to Katie last season when the dynamics of the offense changed. With the change of dynamics roles change. Often that changes the value of a player due to the change of the role they previously played. The one aspect of the Oregon St offense that remains constant is the need for 3pt shooters. If you can not consistently hit the 3 then you better be strong in the post or add a value that is sorely needed. Just being a mid-range shooter is not going to get you floor time on this team. Especially when everyone else on the team can hit those shots as well. The reality is that there just will not be consistent minutes for some members on this squad. Some players are just better suited for mid major teams or lower. |
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Post by sparty on Aug 25, 2019 19:48:22 GMT -8
Count me among those that want to see actual post players in the post. With the size this team has, no reason to go with undersized lineups except situationally. It is hard to project the starting lineup without knowing the status/availability of several players. I don't see a situation that would prompt an undersized line up. The undersize line up needs to have an advantage to it to justify it. That would not happen unless they went with an all guard lineup. Going small in the post would be Jones. Washington is just too short to justifiable play post on this team. Both Jones and Trish are just as quick defensively. If Trish learned to challenge the shots of players in front of her she would be a really good defender. I already suspect that Jones is. There are just too many post players on this team to have them compete with players playing out of position. What needs to be remembered is that those players need to get time on the court to justify them staying at OS. No need for this team to play anyone at the 5 and 4 out of position. In fact it makes more sense to try to move some of those taller players out to the perimeter. Leave the post to Trish, Jones and Jalena. The 4 to Brown, AA ( when she comes into the mix) and Jones (swing with the 5). And gradually transition Brown to the three. I know no one wants to say it but sometimes players just are pushed down the depth chart by better players or options. That is what happened to Taylor Kalmer. Taylor could still contribute, but was pushed down by better players. That happens all the time in the top programs in D1 basketball. Tweeners have always had a hard time at this level. They are not tall enough to play the post or quick enough or possess the skill level to play away from the basket. That becomes compounded when a program is constantly improving the level of their talent. Sometimes a player just isn't suited to the offense or the players they are on the court with. We saw what happened to Katie last season when the dynamics of the offense changed. With the change of dynamics roles change. Often that changes the value of a player due to the change of the role they previously played. The one aspect of the Oregon St offense that remains constant is the need for 3pt shooters. If you can not consistently hit the 3 then you better be strong in the post or add a value that is sorely needed. Just being a mid-range shooter is not going to get you floor time on this team. Especially when everyone else on the team can hit those shots as well. The reality is that there just will not be consistent minutes for some members on this squad. Some players are just better suited for mid major teams or lower. Wow, I will guess that some here will not agree with SOME of the things you said. I would go into a couple of those points but let others challenge. The last sentence got me. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Aug 25, 2019 21:37:26 GMT -8
I don't disagree with what Sparty said, and Taylor Kalmer is a very good example of his final sentence. I think she'll do well in San Diego, whereas she was never going to get beyond bench player here.
Also, further to sparty's comment on Jones playing defense - let us not forget she was the national private school defensive player of the year last season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 2:19:08 GMT -8
I don't disagree with what Sparty said, and Taylor Kalmer is a very good example of his final sentence. I think she'll do well in San Diego, whereas she was never going to get beyond bench player here. Also, further to sparty's comment on Jones playing defense - let us not forget she was the national private school defensive player of the year last season. Create a metric in which one's vertical reach is one's height plus half their wingspan. By this metric, Morris' reach (assuming an average wingspan) is 6'7" plus 3'3.5" = 9'10.5". And Jones' reach is 6'4" plus 3'7" = 9'11". Of course, one's vertical reach really wouldn't include one's full height, because the shoulder is below the head. However, this gives some clue that perhaps Jones could be an extraordinary defensive center for her height, at least with regard to affecting shots. |
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Post by willtalk on Aug 26, 2019 7:54:31 GMT -8
I don't disagree with what Sparty said, and Taylor Kalmer is a very good example of his final sentence. I think she'll do well in San Diego, whereas she was never going to get beyond bench player here. Also, further to sparty's comment on Jones playing defense - let us not forget she was the national private school defensive player of the year last season. While I am not 100% sure, I seems that you are responding to my post rather than Sparty's. I would certainly concur with Thickheads analysis in respect to height. I always say that I have never seen a player block a shot or release shots off the top of their head. I would always refer to their shoulder height and arm length. Some people have really long necks or big heads. Jones seems to fit the physical demographic of someone who would excel on defense. Unfortunately, unlike Brown or AA, I have never see her play or even watched any game video- although I certainly tried to find some. I would say that I did not necessarily mean that Taylor was limited to playing for a midmajor team. She was just an example of someone unfortunate enough to end up on a team that had serious high quality depth at guard. San Diego's guards are not chopped liver either, but her odds of starting went up because one of their top scoring guards transferred to Cal. |
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Post by 411500 on Aug 26, 2019 8:16:43 GMT -8
Just a quick hitter here:
Maddie Washington is a solid player. Very solid. She's a fighter. She started much of the season on a Sweet 16 team - that says quite a bit...
I think Maddie would be a full-time starter on more than half of the Pac-12 teams....She's competing against a lot of talent on this year's Beaver squad...
Not starting on what is hopefully a top ten team is no slam on a player's game.
Maddie's solid and I'm glad she's on the roster...
GO BEAVS !!
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Post by bvrbooster on Aug 26, 2019 9:24:54 GMT -8
No disagreement at all on Maddie. She's a solid player, but she's undersized for the 5 spot. I don't know why you'd want to start an undersized (so overmatched) player at the post when you have a roster that is blessed with size - and talent.
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Post by shelby on Aug 26, 2019 10:23:16 GMT -8
injuries, other issues , inexperience, among some things. hebbard was only 6'3" and she contributed in her role...
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Post by beaverwbb fan on Aug 26, 2019 14:29:20 GMT -8
Prior to her arrival at Oregon State, Washington was largely considered a wing -- this is is what Dan Olson had to say about her while she was a senior at Bishop Gorman -- "Agile, versatile perimeter prospect competes on glass, finishes in traffic; soft touch in mid-range game; developing deep threat."
I, for one, wish Washington had expanded her skillset a little bit early on in her college years, because I think her best chance at becoming a true impact player is at the 3/4 positions, because those are the positions her size and strength would suit her best at -- versus at the 5 where she consistently gives up height to opposing team's centers. She did develop a solid mid-range turnaround shot that she found to be reliable. She actually had two of her best games of the season against Southern Cal and Gonzaga, both of which also used undersized centers.
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