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Post by Tigardbeav on Apr 12, 2019 11:24:27 GMT -8
Much farther down the list. Payton1, Johnson, Green, Counts, Lonnie Shelton, Brent Barrie, Lester Connor, Jose Ortiz, Ray Blume, Rickie Lee, Payton2, and on. Maybe his stats are gaudy due to never being taken out of a game for poor/selfish decision making and poor defense. He is a top 25 all time, which is still great, and he has been a great ambassador for Beaver basketball. Ricky Lee? The guy that averaged 8.2 pts a game at OSU. C'mon. just for the one shot vs tsdtr in Gill. Bank holiday to win!
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Post by nabeav on Apr 12, 2019 12:30:49 GMT -8
I'd really be tempted to add Lonnie to your list of 4 to make it 5, but otherwise I'm in complete agreement that Tres belongs in the same discussion as the other players. Shelton had 3 really good years, but if Tres stays he's gotta be ahead of Shelton in my book.
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Post by mbabeav on Apr 12, 2019 14:57:50 GMT -8
Much farther down the list. Payton1, Johnson, Green, Counts, Lonnie Shelton, Brent Barrie, Lester Connor, Jose Ortiz, Ray Blume, Rickie Lee, Payton2, and on. Maybe his stats are gaudy due to never being taken out of a game for poor/selfish decision making and poor defense. He is a top 25 all time, which is still great, and he has been a great ambassador for Beaver basketball.
Don't forget All-American Freddie Boyd (1972 NBA Draft 5th overall pick).
Perhaps the best player ever to come through OSU was Swede Halbrook, an enigmatic 7' 2" guy with all world talent who never seemed to be comfortable in what he was asked to be doing - only managed to stay at OSU 2 years, but was the one guy that seemed to give Wilt Chamberlain fits in the times they played against each other in the pros. We lost him to a heart attack when he was just 55 or so; a farm kid originally from Arkansas that might have been much happier being 6' 2" and driving a tractor.
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Post by baseba1111 on Apr 12, 2019 15:48:12 GMT -8
Accept mediocrity. If Tres Stays, he will be just the 3rd 2,000 point scorer in OSU history. Assuming he averages 20ppg, he will hit 2,000 in his 113th game. To catch Gary Payton for most points in school history, he needs to average 20ppg for 26 games. And while he will likely surpass Gary Payton in games played (GP played 120 games, Tres is at 95) Tres would need to sit out less than 14 seconds of every game for 33 games to pass Gary for total minutes played, and as best I can tell OSU has only played more than 32 games in a season twice (2008-09 and 2011-12). If he comes back, he has a chance to be in the top ten all time in just about every statistical category we keep....and we're slamming the guy because the team didn't win enough like that's 100% his fault. To say he's not one of the ten best players to every play at OSU is ridiculous in my opinion. Steve Johnson, Gary Payton, AC Green, and Mel Counts are the top 4 in my opinion, but you could make a case for Tres at #5 if he comes back for his senior season. Just to make it simple for you... stats only don't determine if you are one of the top 10 of all time. He's not... in any way except statistically. If you think otherwise that is just as ridiculous to those of us that have watched decades of OSU hoops.
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Post by baseba1111 on Apr 12, 2019 15:49:38 GMT -8
Don't forget All-American Freddie Boyd (1972 NBA Draft 5th overall pick).
Perhaps the best player ever to come through OSU was Swede Halbrook, an enigmatic 7' 2" guy with all world talent who never seemed to be comfortable in what he was asked to be doing - only managed to stay at OSU 2 years, but was the one guy that seemed to give Wilt Chamberlain fits in the times they played against each other in the pros. We lost him to a heart attack when he was just 55 or so; a farm kid originally from Arkansas that might have been much happier being 6' 2" and driving a tractor. Most spouting Tres as a top 5 or 10 player in history have no clue about Swede or many others...
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Post by axebeav on Apr 12, 2019 18:34:45 GMT -8
I didn’t mean to disparage Tres’ accomplishments, and his stats are fantastic. But other than Freddie Boyd and Swede Holbrook I have seen all of those other Beaver greats live and the eyeball test tells me they were all better overall basketball players. They could take over on offense if needed and all played solid D. Many played under Miller where he emphasized teamwork and getting all five players involved, so their individual stats were not a focus. Tres would have found the bench quite more often under Miller, or many other coaches for that matter.
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Post by Judge Smails on Apr 12, 2019 18:35:29 GMT -8
Perhaps the best player ever to come through OSU was Swede Halbrook, an enigmatic 7' 2" guy with all world talent who never seemed to be comfortable in what he was asked to be doing - only managed to stay at OSU 2 years, but was the one guy that seemed to give Wilt Chamberlain fits in the times they played against each other in the pros. We lost him to a heart attack when he was just 55 or so; a farm kid originally from Arkansas that might have been much happier being 6' 2" and driving a tractor. Most spouting Tres as a top 5 or 10 player in history have no clue about Swede or many others... Of course everyone that disagrees with you has no clue according to you. I said he’s top 15. If you disagree why don’t you list your top 15?
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Post by Judge Smails on Apr 12, 2019 18:38:31 GMT -8
I didn’t mean to disparage Tres’ accomplishments, and his stats are fantastic. But other than Freddie Boyd and Swede Holbrook I have seen all of those other Beaver greats live and the eyeball test tells me they were all better overall basketball players. They could take over on offense if needed and all played solid D. Many played under Miller where he emphasized teamwork and getting all five players involved, so their individual stats were not a focus. Tres would have found the bench quite more often under Miller, or many other coaches for that matter. You can’t compare much of anything from the Miller days with no shot clock and no three point line for most of his coaching career. The game is drastically different.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 12, 2019 21:24:46 GMT -8
Frankly, from my research, one of the most productive players OSU has ever had was a guy who averaged at least a stat a minute. He either scored, rebounded, assisted, stole or blocked a shot, every single minute he played in an Oregon State uniform. His name was Eli Glenzel.
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Post by baseba1111 on Apr 13, 2019 7:15:55 GMT -8
Most spouting Tres as a top 5 or 10 player in history have no clue about Swede or many others... Of course everyone that disagrees with you has no clue according to you. I said he’s top 15. If you disagree why don’t you list your top 15? Lol... why do you have to have a list to disagree. It's fairly simple... this era of hoops is about stats and individual play... Tres does that. But, that doesn't make him top 15 in history. And, if anyone thinks he holds a candle as far as talent to the Boyds, Nickleberrys, Lee's, Sheltons, Greens, Connors, GP and GPIIs, Benjamins, Johnson, Blume, Radfords, Counts, Swede... etc etc etc are indeed clueless. And, those that argue against that generally do what? Go back and use stats! Lol IMHO... Tres is indeed top whatever arbitrary # you want to throw out in the 2000s, but not overall.
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Post by Judge Smails on Apr 13, 2019 7:29:12 GMT -8
Of course everyone that disagrees with you has no clue according to you. I said he’s top 15. If you disagree why don’t you list your top 15? Lol... why do you have to have a list to disagree. It's fairly simple... this era of hoops is about stats and individual play... Tres does that. But, that doesn't make him top 15 in history. And, if anyone thinks he holds a candle as far as talent to the Boyds, Nickleberrys, Lee's, Sheltons, Greens, Connors, GP and GPIIs, Benjamins, Johnson, Blume, Radfords, Counts, Swede... etc etc etc are indeed clueless. And, those that argue against that generally do what? Go back and use stats! Lol IMHO... Tres is indeed top whatever arbitrary # you want to throw out in the 2000s, but not overall. You just proved my point. Thanks.
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Post by baseba1111 on Apr 13, 2019 8:50:05 GMT -8
Lol... why do you have to have a list to disagree. It's fairly simple... this era of hoops is about stats and individual play... Tres does that. But, that doesn't make him top 15 in history. And, if anyone thinks he holds a candle as far as talent to the Boyds, Nickleberrys, Lee's, Sheltons, Greens, Connors, GP and GPIIs, Benjamins, Johnson, Blume, Radfords, Counts, Swede... etc etc etc are indeed clueless. And, those that argue against that generally do what? Go back and use stats! Lol IMHO... Tres is indeed top whatever arbitrary # you want to throw out in the 2000s, but not overall. You just proved my point. Thanks. Don't think you had one...
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 13, 2019 9:35:54 GMT -8
You just proved my point. Thanks. Don't think you had one... I think his point is you haven't proven you can actually list 15 who were better, you were close at 14...
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Post by baseba1111 on Apr 13, 2019 11:12:17 GMT -8
Don't think you had one... I think his point is you haven't proven you can actually list 15 who were better, you were close at 14... LOL... well the list would be longer than 15 without even finding rosters and helping my memory... White, Ortiz, Crandall, Gambee, Sitton, Jarvis...
Ok... there's 20 not counting Tanner, Berry, Barry, Cunningham and Cunningham, Bartolome, Beck, Freeman, Rocha... I'm sure I'm skipping some others...
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Post by diehardbeav on Apr 13, 2019 13:50:54 GMT -8
We want Jaap! We want Jaap!
others? You might want to include AC.
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