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Post by nabeav on May 25, 2019 17:26:17 GMT -8
HAHA! I see the negaBeavs are out making sure we all keep our expectations in check. All you "fans" need to let it go. The team still has 2 sons on the team. All 3 sons have done nothing but conduct themselves as true Beavs. Yes, we didn't make it to the final 4 like we all wanted to see with the sons all together during Tinkle's 3rd or 4th year. Sh!t happens. Like always, there were bumps in the road. It didn't happen, and they came up just short of making the dance. You don't have to like the timeline, but the team IS improving. Tinkle is at minimum, a decent coach. More importantly, he is a quality person and a great ambassador for OSU. Win or lose we have a coaching staff, players, and a team we can all be proud of. No drama. No infighting. No questionable behavior, on or off the court. Good students. No recruiting violations or a program being constantly investigated because of shady moves like the program down the road. All you "I know the TRUTH because I DEMAND better" fans need to ask yourselves just what you really want, because things could be MUCH worse than they are. Hell, we have a LONG history of things being much worse, and just as the program is starting to gain traction a bunch of you want to blow it all up. Because the grass is greener? Are you sure??? I agree with most here that we should make the dance this year. I think SMM and JF will push Hollins to get better and for playing time. I would argue that with the addition of Big Li, this recruiting class is by far the best recruiting class under Tinkle. And none of them are sons. I don't know how this class stacks up as far as star value, but both Li and Gianni Hunt are going to fill major needs for the team, and both are program changing kind of talents. Anything that Miller-Moore, Franklin, and Lucas can add to the equation is gravy. And those guys are NOT chumps. And I see some just make s%#te up! Who mentioned player conduct? Who said it was anything but stellar. Oh yeah... cuz it was never mentioned. On top of that the discussion was on wins/making the "dance"... player conduct really has ZERO to do with that. If it did we'd be dancing quite often as I don't remember a major DB issue for quite some time. And... again... 8th-10th rated class = chumps? Way to just fabricate your own lexicon. Facts are... every team will expect returners to improve and push others to improve... OSU has a bottom tier class (again)... we lost one of our top players with no significant player to match that output without a SIGNIFICANT jump in performance... in 5 years there has been no sign of significant player development as a team. And, lastly my post was pointed to the two statements that OSU was "close/very close"... NO... JUST NO... THEY WERE NOT. Well, close in that we lost like a half dozen games by one possession or in OT. They were competitive all season which is really all we can ask for as fans.
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Post by baseba1111 on May 25, 2019 17:56:54 GMT -8
And I see some just make s%#te up! Who mentioned player conduct? Who said it was anything but stellar. Oh yeah... cuz it was never mentioned. On top of that the discussion was on wins/making the "dance"... player conduct really has ZERO to do with that. If it did we'd be dancing quite often as I don't remember a major DB issue for quite some time. And... again... 8th-10th rated class = chumps? Way to just fabricate your own lexicon. Facts are... every team will expect returners to improve and push others to improve... OSU has a bottom tier class (again)... we lost one of our top players with no significant player to match that output without a SIGNIFICANT jump in performance... in 5 years there has been no sign of significant player development as a team. And, lastly my post was pointed to the two statements that OSU was "close/very close"... NO... JUST NO... THEY WERE NOT. Well, close in that we lost like a half dozen games by one possession or in OT. They were competitive all season which is really all we can ask for as fans. Actually you can ask for a bit more. Just as some say OSU was "close"/"competitive" in many of the losses, you can ask why is just competitive ok? In other words with some basic fundamentals, a legit offensive philosophy, and a utilization of all the skills available, should not half (or many... or some) of those actually been W's? Simple fact, while the Pac12 has been down and OSU had its best three player combo in some time its not been taken advantage of.
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Post by baseba1111 on May 25, 2019 18:09:23 GMT -8
And I see some just make s%#te up! Who mentioned player conduct? Who said it was anything but stellar. Oh yeah... cuz it was never mentioned. On top of that the discussion was on wins/making the "dance"... player conduct really has ZERO to do with that. If it did we'd be dancing quite often as I don't remember a major DB issue for quite some time. And... again... 8th-10th rated class = chumps? Way to just fabricate your own lexicon. Facts are... every team will expect returners to improve and push others to improve... OSU has a bottom tier class (again)... we lost one of our top players with no significant player to match that output without a SIGNIFICANT jump in performance... in 5 years there has been no sign of significant player development as a team. And, lastly my post was pointed to the two statements that OSU was "close/very close"... NO... JUST NO... THEY WERE NOT. Wasn't really talking to you dude, but it's interesting that you squarely pick up the mantle against what I said. My point is that our class is not chumps. I really don't care what the recruiting rankings say. These guys are legit. You are the one making up your own reality. Rail agaist something I didn't say all you want. DUDE... or dud... It's a message board, you speak to everyone here. Unless of course you send a private message. That's the "realistic" process of message boards. There was no "making up"... what was said is the reality. You insinuated someone referred to our recruits as "chumps". No where was that found... that is just one example of your made up reality. If honest assessments are negative, then stating multiple players will make substantial improvement (not even our top 3 the last three seasons made that kind of jump) and this team is close to making the dance (individual games not mentioned) is then Polly Anna fantasy. The reality is that the type of improvement and newcomer contribution hasn't really happened since the first two sons showed up. Could it happen? Yep. Likely enough for this team to ride a wave of 30-35 spot improvement to make the dance? Probably not as this staff isn't shown that type of trust in newcomers or development of returners.
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Post by nabeav on May 25, 2019 18:18:18 GMT -8
baseba1111 - Partly agree. We were non competitive in PAC-12 play over the past three decades for the most part. We had better players than maybe ever during the Tinkle Era, and I will agree that they slightly underachieved. But the fact of the matter is that we have been .500 or better in four of the last five years and made a tourney that possibly lasts more than one game if Tres hadn’t been hurt. We are no longer a bottom of the conference team. While this was a “down” year for the conference and while we had more talent than a typical OSU team, don’t think we had more talent than UW, Az, UCLA, Oregon, possibly ASU.....we have just caught up to the point that luck and late game execution are now factors In how our games turn out. After three decades of futility, having a chance to win night in and night out seems great to me. This whole “as fans, we should demand greatness” seems more to me like “I’m a fan of the Beavers when they’re good. When they’re bad I’m withholding my fandom until they get good again.”
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Post by baseba1111 on May 25, 2019 20:28:23 GMT -8
baseba1111 - Partly agree. We were non competitive in PAC-12 play over the past three decades for the most part. We had better players than maybe ever during the Tinkle Era, and I will agree that they slightly underachieved. But the fact of the matter is that we have been .500 or better in four of the last five years and made a tourney that possibly lasts more than one game if Tres hadn’t been hurt. We are no longer a bottom of the conference team. While this was a “down” year for the conference and while we had more talent than a typical OSU team, don’t think we had more talent than UW, Az, UCLA, Oregon, possibly ASU.....we have just caught up to the point that luck and late game execution are now factors In how our games turn out. After three decades of futility, having a chance to win night in and night out seems great to me. This whole “as fans, we should demand greatness” seems more to me like “I’m a fan of the Beavers when they’re good. When they’re bad I’m withholding my fandom until they get good again.” I am not sure who's being quoted... and if I've said that it's a very subjective term. No one on this board has ever expected the "greatness" of lets say a Duke, Kansas, MichSt, NC, etc. But, having a program who stumbles over itself again and again and doesn't seem to learn from "it's" mistakes is far from what fans should expect. In addition comparative judgments are for those who tend to justify mediocrity. And, most here don't do it in any other area of their lives... "oh, the _____ used to suck, so being a bit better is ok." At least that is not the mode of thinking for successful people and those who root for their sports teams really care about what have you done for me lately. Past teams, coaches, etc do not make what is going as far as player development/fundamentals, recruiting/keeping said recruits (another area where some here justify that is just a trend everywhere... so it's ok), an offensive scheme, among some. And... again in no way does expecting more from a staff equate to being band wagon fan. Two completely different mentalities. True fans can't withhold their support... it's not in their nature. Hence, why many get so personally invested. Some too much so. But, the assertion that demanding excellence is the same as a fair weather fan is, well, BS. And, I think form your other postings you know this. I'd love to see WT and staff do a 180 on some things/aspects of the program, but after this length of time I do not see any sign of major changes. Recruiting is especially worrisome. No one knows how a kid(s) will turn out at this level, but it seems we are signing a lot of 2nd, 3rd "choices" in many classes. And, the attrition rate for players who have left may be the "norm", but this program/staff can't be "normal" in that area. I personally know only two posters on this board. We differ in some views on various topics/sports, but we three come here because we love OSU and the students, athletes, and teams that represent the university. But, being die hard fans doesn't mean to blindly accept what's going on, or just toss $$ to a department that needs some tune ups.
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Post by nabeav on May 25, 2019 20:48:57 GMT -8
I’m not calling anyone specifically a bandwagon fan. I was one of the most outspoken GA haters, but it had very little to do with the record.
I just feel like Tinkle is getting graded on an unfair curve. Recruiting is a problem, but he’s also got more talent to work with? Kylor and Drew both in state kids he got more out of than anyone expected. Yes he’s got connections with his kids, but those three also had their pick of where to go. Tres wasn’t going to go to Montana, so saying that he was a lock to come to OSU seems speculative at best. This new class may not be highly rated, but I like their makeup from what I’ve seen.
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Post by beavsinorange on May 25, 2019 21:19:26 GMT -8
I think we go to the dance this year. Tres, Ethan and Kelley are only going to get better. Plus, I really think that Hollins will shake off the Sophomore slump next year. I'm excited to see the Freshmen and Sean Miller Moore. We were really close last year. I think we get it done next year. Also, I'm really excited to see Antoine Vernon this next season. I liked him at the point and seems like a great team player. WTF... really close? What's the definition? Didn't make the 68, or next 32... at best 101 "ish" is close? Same cast minus Stevie (the next 3 on the roster COMBINED basically equal his output), 8th-10th ranked recruiting class, other teams returners will also improve plus better recruits. Love see how we're any closer? Maybe hope springs eternal, but even on paper we're not better. We were close baseball1111, we had two close losses vs ASU, one to Zona, @ucla and at Washington. We should have and easily could have won those games and that's a 14 and 4 record, which would have tied us for first. We could have taken ASUs bid.
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Post by baseba1111 on May 25, 2019 22:39:53 GMT -8
WTF... really close? What's the definition? Didn't make the 68, or next 32... at best 101 "ish" is close? Same cast minus Stevie (the next 3 on the roster COMBINED basically equal his output), 8th-10th ranked recruiting class, other teams returners will also improve plus better recruits. Love see how we're any closer? Maybe hope springs eternal, but even on paper we're not better. We were close baseball1111, we had two close losses vs ASU, one to Zona, @ucla and at Washington. We should have and easily could have won those games and that's a 14 and 4 record, which would have tied us for first. We could have taken ASUs bid. No... we lost. PERIOD. Those "close" losses were due to poor fundamentals, execution, etc... losses. We couldn't have "easily" won any of those games. Part of being a dance worthy team is winning those games. Close? OSU wasn't even NIT caliber. Close is being a top 8 team selected to the NIT. Close to dancing because you lose a group of close games makes as much sense as... yeah it doesn't... they count as losses. Let us know how long "close" passes as acceptable.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 26, 2019 9:33:17 GMT -8
On a strict won/loss scale they weren't close. But acting like Tinkle hasn't improved the program over everything we had the last two and a half decades or so is ridiculous.
The Beavers only had 4 losses by more than 6 points. Only one or two other teams in the league did that last season. Half of their losses were by 3 or less. The team was literally 1 or two bounces of the ball away from a radically different won loss record. After two and a half decades of not being competitive or in the games at the end of 38-40 minutes, I find their performance quite refreshing, quite frustrating as well but still much improved over what we'd been seeing under a bunch of other coaches.
I'm sure the coaches are every bit as frustrated as some of the fans here, but it's pretty obvious we're seeing overall better basketball 4 of the last 5 years than we have in a long time.
I'm looking forward to a strong season next year.
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Post by baseba1111 on May 26, 2019 10:50:26 GMT -8
On a strict won/loss scale they weren't close. But acting like Tinkle hasn't improved the program over everything we had the last two and a half decades or so is ridiculous. The Beavers only had 4 losses by more than 6 points. Only one or two other teams in the league did that last season. Half of their losses were by 3 or less. The team was literally 1 or two bounces of the ball away from a radically different won loss record. After two and a half decades of not being competitive or in the games at the end of 38-40 minutes, I find their performance quite refreshing, quite frustrating as well but still much improved over what we'd been seeing under a bunch of other coaches. I'm sure the coaches are every bit as frustrated as some of the fans here, but it's pretty obvious we're seeing overall better basketball 4 of the last 5 years than we have in a long time. I'm looking forward to a strong season next year. But, strictly by wins and losses... not so much over a seemingly despised CR: - 93-104 (.469) 6 seasons 77-88 (.467) 5 seasons 39-69 (.362) league - 75-83 (.473) 5 seasons 35-55 (.389) league And, since some like to think an key injury season doesn't count... CR had as many or more key injuries or NCAA issues to multiple key players and was 10-19 in his worst campaign. And then, of course those that say CR's Ws are inflated because of CBI Ws! Still played the games, still had wins no matter the politics of the invite. And, the wins came vs teams better than most NC teams played then and now. Wasn't a huge CR fan, the years before horrible, but by wins and losses not much of a difference. And, if you take away coaches kids the overall recruits that stayed put, recruiting arguably worse. Maybe by a good margin in some respects. Hence, I will continue to dispute the point of any significant improvement over the CR era.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 26, 2019 13:49:27 GMT -8
With the exception of the 2011-2012 season (which was a pretty decent season just looking at the numbers) Robinson and OSU were gifted multiple trips to the CBI because of his family connections.
OSU has actually turned down the CBI under Tinkle and will probably never get another invite despite winning multiple games more than all but one of Robinson's invited teams.
In reality it probably only make a 5 and 3 difference in overall won/loss record, but you're still not comparing apples to apples.
At the end of the Pac 12 Tournament, Coach Robinson's teams had losing records 4 out of 6 years. For Tinkle that's been the case 1 out of 5.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on May 26, 2019 15:18:31 GMT -8
I think we go to the dance this year. Tres, Ethan and Kelley are only going to get better. Plus, I really think that Hollins will shake off the Sophomore slump next year. I'm excited to see the Freshmen and Sean Miller Moore. We were really close last year. I think we get it done next year. Also, I'm really excited to see Antoine Vernon this next season. I liked him at the point and seems like a great team player. WTF... really close? What's the definition? Didn't make the 68, or next 32... at best 101 "ish" is close? Same cast minus Stevie (the next 3 on the roster COMBINED basically equal his output), 8th-10th ranked recruiting class, other teams returners will also improve plus better recruits. Love see how we're any closer? Maybe hope springs eternal, but even on paper we're not better. I agree with you that the incoming guys combined probably about equal the production Stevie gave us. I would argue though that the output we see out of the incomers next season could be more consistent on a game to game basis than what we got from STJr. Not a knock on ST in the slightest, I loved watching him play and think very highly of him as a player, but he was very streaky and when he wasn't on the team struggled to win games (hence a lot of close losses). WT should have the luxury of playing the incoming class as much as their production from game to game warrants and ideally would allow for that production we are losing to be made up for with whoever has the hot hand on the bench.
Combine the above with ET being able to slide over to the 2 rather than the 1 and that should free him up to play off the ball and more to his strengths as a player. I would be surprised if we don't see a big step forward for Ethan this year. Having Hunt/Vernon able to distribute to our scorers rather than them creating for themselves as often as they did last season should also help offensive consistency improve and hopefully be a little less frustrating to watch compared to last season's group.
The thing I'm a little concerned with is what the incoming guys can do defensively. Stevie wasn't the quickest or elite of defenders but he had quick hands and was a smart player and was rarely caught out of position. Hopefully we don't see a step backwards there.
None of this matters of course if they don't win games and prove they have what it takes on the court. I would be shocked if the team doesn't take a step forward over last year's team, but as I said in an earlier post, I expect the competition to be much stiffer in the upcoming campaign.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 26, 2019 15:31:29 GMT -8
I see Kylor improving, Tres hopefully remaining uninjured all season long (thereby making him more effective), better play from the 3 spot whoever it is, Daystrup getting effective minutes in relief at two positions (possibly allowing Tres to move to the three a good portion of the time), Ethan will slide over to his natural position and be better than his brother was, AND we will have a legitimate point guard getting the bulk of the minutes at the 1 spot for the first time in about 5 years. A couple of the new kids won't be slouches either when it comes to athletic play in relief.
There's a lot to look forward to next year.
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Post by beavsinorange on May 26, 2019 20:54:36 GMT -8
We were close baseball1111, we had two close losses vs ASU, one to Zona, @ucla and at Washington. We should have and easily could have won those games and that's a 14 and 4 record, which would have tied us for first. We could have taken ASUs bid. No... we lost. PERIOD. Those "close" losses were due to poor fundamentals, execution, etc... losses. We couldn't have "easily" won any of those games. Part of being a dance worthy team is winning those games. Close? OSU wasn't even NIT caliber. Close is being a top 8 team selected to the NIT. Close to dancing because you lose a group of close games makes as much sense as... yeah it doesn't... they count as losses. Let us know how long "close" passes as acceptable. Haha are you serious. Man what team were you watching? We could have easily won those games, but it wasn't meant to be. I've moved on from last year. I see a program on the rise and stable for years to come. I could give you numerous examples of growth of the program, but I guess you would never see it since it fits your Anti-Tinkle propaganda. I'm just going to enjoy the journey toward the future success of the program. I hope you can enjoy the journey too.
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Post by beavsinorange on May 26, 2019 21:06:06 GMT -8
No... we lost. PERIOD. Those "close" losses were due to poor fundamentals, execution, etc... losses. We couldn't have "easily" won any of those games. Part of being a dance worthy team is winning those games. Close? OSU wasn't even NIT caliber. Close is being a top 8 team selected to the NIT. Close to dancing because you lose a group of close games makes as much sense as... yeah it doesn't... they count as losses. Let us know how long "close" passes as acceptable. Haha are you serious. Man what team were you watching? We could have easily won those games, but it wasn't meant to be. I've moved on from last year. I see a program on the rise and stable for years to come. I could give you numerous examples of growth of the program, but I guess you would never see it since it fits your Anti-Tinkle propaganda. I'm just going to enjoy the journey toward the future success of the program. I hope you can enjoy the journey too. Haha are you serious? Man what team are you watching? We could have easily won those games, but it wasn't meant to be. I've moved on from last year.I see a program on the rise and successful for years to come. I could give you numerous examples of the growth of the program, but you wouldn't see it since it doesn't fit your Anti-Tinkle propaganda. I'm going to sit back, cheer on the Beavs and enjoy the journey. I hope you can as well.
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