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Post by 76spirit on Jan 29, 2019 12:43:02 GMT -8
Can of worms time. Why does Katie Mac deserve so much floor time? She gets few rebounds. She scores few points. Is she some kind of “glue factor?” Is seems that she regularly is chasing behind the player she’s guarding as they both go over a screen or pick. Hesitancy with her shot is regular. She’s not what I would call a lock-down defender. If she’s not rebounding why isn’t she breaking out for an outlet pass? What am I missing? She has seemingly so many tools and should be more “noticeable/impactful” on the court. Help me, I’m perplexed.
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Post by Werebeaver on Jan 29, 2019 13:18:07 GMT -8
it's funny. We complete a weekend road sweep in which opponents averaged 37 points and folks are complaining about our defense.
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Post by wbosh15 on Jan 29, 2019 13:18:53 GMT -8
Can of worms time. Why does Katie Mac deserve so much floor time? She gets few rebounds. She scores few points. Is she some kind of “glue factor?” Is seems that she regularly is chasing behind the player she’s guarding as they both go over a screen or pick. Hesitancy with her shot is regular. She’s not what I would call a lock-down defender. If she’s not rebounding why isn’t she breaking out for an outlet pass? What am I missing? She has seemingly so many tools and should be more “noticeable/impactful” on the court. Help me, I’m perplexed. A couple of things here. I would agree that Katie is the type of player that "Overthinks" at times. She's an excellent shooter and I think a good scorer and if she had more of a "scorers" mentality I think she would score a lot more. However, and especially if she's missed shot's early, I think she looks to just keep the ball moving unless she has a wide open shot. On the defensive end, everything in OSU's defense is set on being in the right place, and forcing the right type of contested shots. On a typical big to small ball screen, the player guarding the big should drop, and then player guarding the ball trails to get back into the play, so Katie chasing the player is exactly what she is supposed to do. OSU is wanting to force a contested 12-16 footer, with Katie being able to contest it trailing the play.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 13:20:36 GMT -8
Can of worms time. Why does Katie Mac deserve so much floor time? She gets few rebounds. She scores few points. Is she some kind of “glue factor?” Is seems that she regularly is chasing behind the player she’s guarding as they both go over a screen or pick. Hesitancy with her shot is regular. She’s not what I would call a lock-down defender. If she’s not rebounding why isn’t she breaking out for an outlet pass? What am I missing? She has seemingly so many tools and should be more “noticeable/impactful” on the court. Help me, I’m perplexed. I'm sure Rueck is starting her out of loyalty to seniors so that she can say she started every game in her senior year. She is usually the first player to be subbed out, which is a sure sign that SR understands her limitations. Many Katie supporters were predicting a breakout season for her (as they always do -- "She'll be all-Pac-12", etc.), but of course it never materializes. She's still, as a senior, making bad passes and failing in the other ways you mention. She's got physical limitations that can't be overcome, due mainly to a lack of strength and speed. She's a pretty solid player, otherwise, that you like to have take the occasional clutch shot.
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Post by bvrbooster on Jan 29, 2019 13:25:17 GMT -8
She is as described, but, in tight game with very little time on the clock, I'd rather have her taking the shot than anybody else we have. She's gotten the job done numerous times over the last 3 1/2 years.
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,827
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Jan 29, 2019 20:42:08 GMT -8
Can of worms time. Why does Katie Mac deserve so much floor time? She gets few rebounds. She scores few points. Is she some kind of “glue factor?” Is seems that she regularly is chasing behind the player she’s guarding as they both go over a screen or pick. Hesitancy with her shot is regular. She’s not what I would call a lock-down defender. If she’s not rebounding why isn’t she breaking out for an outlet pass? What am I missing? She has seemingly so many tools and should be more “noticeable/impactful” on the court. Help me, I’m perplexed. Good topic, thoughtful post. Some of it I even agree with. I think we expected great things from KTMac this year because the team could really use it: size-wise she represents a mismatch, and she appears to have the skills to do serious damage on the offensive end. Especially since (and this is where I went off and did some research) almost all of our highly-rated recruits have progressed to great heights (and even some of our less-heralded recruits for that matter). KT's minutes steadily increased her first 3 years: 20.1 -> 20.9 -> 32.7, but they are down so far this year (26.7), likely with the continued emergence of Aleah and Mik, and the presence of Destiny, but also because of her somewhat more modest contributions. Her scoring average has steadily risen: 3.2 -> 4.8 -> 8.1 to even thus far this year, 8.7 (so she has gotten more efficient in her scoring as well). Rebounds: 2.0 -> 2.5 -> 4.1 this year dropping to 3.0. She has never had a double-double, but in double figures scoring 7 games this season, and 22 times in her career. She has also had one double-figure rebounding game, and exceeded 20 points once in her career (29 against Lamar, a game I remember well, as it was the first game of the season for us, and I thought, "if KTMac plays like that every game, we will be a very, very tough out"). Clearly coach sees value in starting her (74 games started out of 104 played in, started all 34 last year and all 20 thus far this year). Perhaps for glue, to get us off on the right foot, for her D, her O, I am not sure what. But our coach tends to play percentages, and it seems like starting her, even without eye-popping stats, is a winning proposition. I will admit to being surprised at how many shots she seems to be passing up of late. Being a "coaches kid", she tends to play a more cerebral game than an instinctual game (note that I am mostly not that impressed with how, uh, instinctual the games of the older two of "my three sons" in MBB is). She seems to have a deferential/reserved personality type, to where I was very surprised at how emotional she was after hitting the 4 point play in OT against the 'ucks last season - it is part of the intro video this year). Is she a contributor? Absolutely. Would we win the Pac-12 if she went off for 12-16 points a night? Perhaps. Does she show up big for big games? Seems to do so. Is she interested in "getting hers" to the tune of 12-16 ppg? Doesn't seem like it to date, and she only has ~20 more games to do so in an OSU uniform. (Don't know if the coach wants her to try to get hers to whatever number of attempts that would take - shooting 41% from the field, 45% from 3, and 85% from FT line seems would indicate more shots from her wouldn't be unwelcome). All of that said, one can argue she has upped her game every year, and she is clearly doing enough to be our starter this season, and the results are pretty darn good. But if she could just eat whatever it was she ate before that Lamar game before these next 20 games!! I like our chances, regardless, and KTMac is *still* a reason I like our chances. Go Beavers!
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Post by beaveragain on Jan 29, 2019 22:34:04 GMT -8
On Katie's defense. I could go on about it but I will say three things.
SR has people figure out for each score by the other team who messed up or if it was a mess up. And last year when Das Hammer was defensive player of the year for the Pac-12, Katie was the Beav's defensive player of the year.
Against Notre Dame Katie defended Jackie and Arike (two of the best guards in the country) and held them to 0-5 in shooting and after that they just passed off when she was guarding them.
She uses her length so she doesn't worry about them getting in front of her. She can block them from behind or slid in front when they stop to shoot and be right there when they try.
She can't do bigs right next to the basket or the really quick shorties. But otherwise she's the best in the pac-12 even if the title will go to whoever leads in blocked shots or steals.
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Post by 411500 on Jan 30, 2019 6:24:20 GMT -8
2ndGenBeaver--thanks for compiling the info on Katie's career... She is a unique talent, and her game is really hard to analyze. She is a master of the "quiet things" - things essential to team success that are hard to see but nevertheless vital. I'm one of those who thought this would be her breakout year, but it looks like I over estimated her total game, especially her ability to score.... At any rate, I'm still a big fan of Katie. She's a trooper. A fighter. A slugger. And as Coach Rueck will tell you: a player.
GO BEAVS !!
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Post by lotrader on Jan 30, 2019 6:41:49 GMT -8
KTMac is an EXCELLENT defender in the Beaver's system. Keep track of who KTMac guards in each game. Between KTMac and Pivec, they are usually switching off during the game guarding the best offensive player on the opposing team. I watched KTMac chase ASU's 3-point shooter, Courtney Eckmark, all around the court, fighting through screens, etc. I would have to go back and look at the game stats, but I don't think Eckmark scored? KTMac's height on the perimeter is a huge advantage for OSU. KTMac can check a taller wing (like Katie Lou Samulson of UCONN). KTMac knows the offensive and defensive schemes, and has great vision and passing skills. Beavers are better off with KTMac than without KTMac. Her scoring is less of an issue in my mind with the scorers we now have on the perimeter.
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Post by rmancarl on Jan 30, 2019 8:09:36 GMT -8
The question was "Does Katie Mac deserve so much playing time". I don't know, but obviously coach thinks so. Last season she logged more minutes than anyone. There must be reasoning for that. I'm not the coach, but I'm guessing the reasoning is: 1---she can handle the ball.....good enough to play point for the Beavs during her career. 2---she is clutch----hitting shots at the end of games, and making her free throws under pressure at the end of games. 3---she understands the game, and knows SR's system. 4---I think most of you know this, but SR grades EVERY basket by the opposing team and determines which Beaver was responsible for allowing them to score. He keeps stats on points his defensive player is responsible for. If Katie Mac was failing in this area, she wouldn't be playing. 5---If she is getting less minutes, who on the current roster is taking minutes from her?
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Post by 76spirit on Jan 30, 2019 12:06:55 GMT -8
When plays are set for Katie, as in coming out of time-outs she seems to do very well. I’d be curious to take a look at SR’s defensive stats. Not sure I’d even give Katie best Beaver defender with Mikayla’s rise across all stats! Mikayla is one heckuva player!! My point in raising the question about Katie ( beside my squirming in my seat) is more about the loss of a final (senior) opportunity for her and with Kat out the need the team has for Katie to get some mojo going if they’re to go far ( a further opportunity for her to step up.). She’s a nice person. Even helped her opposing player up off the floor while PLAY CONTINUED during a recent game. But, her deference is a disservice to her team. C’MON KATIE ! Would love to see her heat it up.
Have enjoyed reading the various perspectives on this. GO BEAVS !
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Post by Werebeaver on Jan 30, 2019 17:23:24 GMT -8
When plays are set for Katie, as in coming out of time-outs she seems to do very well. I’d be curious to take a look at SR’s defensive stats. Not sure I’d even give Katie best Beaver defender with Mikayla’s rise across all stats! Mikayla is one heckuva player!! My point in raising the question about Katie ( beside my squirming in my seat) is more about the loss of a final (senior) opportunity for her and with Kat out the need the team has for Katie to get some mojo going if they’re to go far ( a further opportunity for her to step up.). She’s a nice person. Even helped her opposing player up off the floor while PLAY CONTINUED during a recent game. But, her deference is a disservice to her team. C’MON KATIE ! Would love to see her heat it up. Have enjoyed reading the various perspectives on this. GO BEAVS ! I saw Katie helping her opponent up during that game. I thought it was refreshing to see a player show some real sportsmanship rather than just mouthing pro-forma platitudes about it. I don't see it as a "disservice to her team".
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Post by 76spirit on Jan 30, 2019 18:03:21 GMT -8
When plays are set for Katie, as in coming out of time-outs she seems to do very well. I’d be curious to take a look at SR’s defensive stats. Not sure I’d even give Katie best Beaver defender with Mikayla’s rise across all stats! Mikayla is one heckuva player!! My point in raising the question about Katie ( beside my squirming in my seat) is more about the loss of a final (senior) opportunity for her and with Kat out the need the team has for Katie to get some mojo going if they’re to go far ( a further opportunity for her to step up.). She’s a nice person. Even helped her opposing player up off the floor while PLAY CONTINUED during a recent game. But, her deference is a disservice to her team. C’MON KATIE ! Would love to see her heat it up. Have enjoyed reading the various perspectives on this. GO BEAVS ! I saw Katie helping her opponent up during that game. I thought it was refreshing to see a player show some real sportsmanship rather than just mouthing pro-forma platitudes about it. I don't see it as a "disservice to her team".
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Post by 76spirit on Jan 30, 2019 18:05:26 GMT -8
By deference I was referring to her lack of assertiveness offensively and in rebounding.
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