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Post by sagebrush on Jan 18, 2019 5:31:50 GMT -8
Those games happen. Sometimes every POS you throw up goes in. Sometimes, you get a good shot, in rhythm, and you get a brick. The lack of boxing out does trouble me. It should be automatic and is Rebounding 101. Shot goes up, get a body on someone.
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Post by blastingsand on Jan 18, 2019 5:48:14 GMT -8
No need to panic yet guys. This road trip was going to be tough. Winnable, but tough. Even if we drop the weekend, this team is still good enough to contend with anyone in the Pac-12 so the race isn't over.
Regarding WT, I do wonder how his teams and recruiting here would turn out if he didn't have coaches' family ties going on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 6:11:37 GMT -8
No need to panic yet guys. This road trip was going to be tough. Winnable, but tough. Even if we drop the weekend, this team is still good enough to contend with anyone in the Pac-12 so the race isn't over. Regarding WT, I do wonder how his teams and recruiting here would turn out if he didn't have coaches' family ties going on. That's a good point, it seems three of the best players are the coach's sons. Hmmmm
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Post by ochobeavo on Jan 18, 2019 7:25:13 GMT -8
All I saw was a team that normally shoots fairly well throwing up brick after brick. Stuff like that happens sometime and we played defense more than well enough to win. I got 2 chalk this one up to the vagaries of the game not to the horrors of anyone coach or player so just get ready for the next one. Except the game was never close if the vagaries of ASU FTs aren't present. They go 10-22. OSU goes on extended scoreless streaks... the 22-5 run or so in the 1st half told the story. -OSU was simply out "physicaled" -OSU bigs nonexistent... 2-7, 4 pts, 6 rebs -over 50% of FGA from 3 -weird rotation... Hollins only 21 minutes, but 3-3, 2-4, 4 rebs, 2 st... Washington only 11 min... yet starters 18-48, other bigs ineffective a step slow. ASU "uglied" up the game and OSU could not keep their composure. But,it was a roadie vs a much better team than SC UCLA. Oh yeah... did we cover the spread? Well said. We got big-brothered and pushed around all night. Or at least for the first 30+ minutes before we decided to fight back a little bit and stop flailing and flopping. Great example of "composure' or lackthereof last night, and personal pet peeve of mine, was end of 1st half - we try to play 2 for 1 which results in Stevie taking a terrible 25 ft shot (just for the sake of trying to get the ball back again) rather than working for a clean look to end the half - especially when we were really struggling offensively... But yes we covered!!! Feels GREAT. Wait, I don't gamble, so no it doesn't.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 18, 2019 7:57:36 GMT -8
Good Call. Ernie Kent is killing it at WSU Lol... cuz he's at WSU. I'm no Ernie fan, but good college coaching accomplishments dwarf WT's at this point! I'm no fan of comparing coaches in differing situations, but looking at a single coach's record on the road, in league play, overall losing record. Best not to compare him to those who've succeeded at a higher level. Includes another thread comparing his recruiting to Ralph's. So Ernie is a good coach, but he's just at WSU. Yet, he is at a school with very similar resources ($$) and recruiting disadvantages and has had much worse results than WT. But yet, Ernie is a good coach and WT is not. Got it. I guess we should throw out WT's success at Montana.
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Post by beaver94 on Jan 18, 2019 9:36:26 GMT -8
I know hedging ball screens is the way pretty much all teams defend them now. But it seems that often the screeners defender is allowed to basically just push the ball handler away from the hoop with their body as long as he keeps his hands up and away from the player. I noticed this a lot in the game last night. Is this the way it's supposed to be called or where they just letting them get away with it last night?
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Post by alwaysorange on Jan 18, 2019 10:53:31 GMT -8
After watching the game was wondering what was the deal with Tres. Is his ankle that bad that he can't run and dribble into a crowd without losing balance and falling over?
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 18, 2019 11:00:08 GMT -8
Lol... cuz he's at WSU. I'm no Ernie fan, but good college coaching accomplishments dwarf WT's at this point! And I'm no fan of comparing coaches in differing situations, but looking at a single coach's record on the road, in league play, overall losing record. Best not to compare him to those who've succeeded at a higher level. Includes another thread comparing his recruiting to Ralph's. So Ernie is a good coach, but he's just at WSU. Yet, he is at a school with very similar resources ($$) and recruiting disadvantages and has had much worse results than WT. But yet, Ernie is a good coach and WT is not. Got it. I guess we should throw out WT's success at Montana. And toss out Ernie's at whoregon? And... Erie is a good coach? That was said... where? I commented because he's always brought up as doing zero at WSU. Statistically in equal seasons, it is VERY similar to WT's tenure here. Hence not a great argument to make in support of your WT admiration society. But, hey some here are used to it. We had to endure the "great get... incredible he'd come here" Gary Andersen vs the schlep Mike Riley BS for almost 2 years. Same dance, different song... Ernie... 379-339 overall (.528)... 24 seasons WCC, Pac12... Pac12 @ WSU 19-57 (.250) ... (6) NCAAs, (2) Elite 8s... (2) NIT semis. Top half finish in Pac12, 9 of his 17 seasons. Your buddy Wayne... 225-163 (.580) 13 seasons most at a lower comp level... Pac12 @ OSU 28-48 (.368)... (4) NCAA 1st rd, (1) CBI. Pac12 top half 1 in 4 completed seasons... in and era where Pac12 is arguably far weaker. And... in far more seasons in tougher conference. Not sure you truly want to compare him to Ernie to make a better coaching point as WSU was in about the shape (maybe a bit worse) after the 29-62 (.319) Ken Bone era than "orange googles" want to admit post Craig Robinson 39-69 (.362) era. But wait... if Ernis is such trash at WSU, and statistically (+9 over 4.5 seasons) WT is about the same then ??
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 18, 2019 11:01:20 GMT -8
After watching the game was wondering what was the deal with Tres. Is his ankle that bad that he can't run and dribble into a crowd without losing balance and falling over? Has to play man... 80% and still take 1/3 of the shot attempts. If he doesn't get off of it it will be this way most of the season.
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Post by ochobeavo on Jan 18, 2019 11:12:56 GMT -8
After watching the game was wondering what was the deal with Tres. Is his ankle that bad that he can't run and dribble into a crowd without losing balance and falling over? I did confirm he was actually wearing shoes - wasn't sure there for a bit. So I think it's a lot of ankle and a little of "trying to get some calls"
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 18, 2019 11:39:21 GMT -8
So Ernie is a good coach, but he's just at WSU. Yet, he is at a school with very similar resources ($$) and recruiting disadvantages and has had much worse results than WT. But yet, Ernie is a good coach and WT is not. Got it. I guess we should throw out WT's success at Montana. And toss out Ernie's at whoregon? And... Erie is a good coach? That was said... where? I commented because he's always brought up as doing zero at WSU. Statistically in equal seasons, it is VERY similar to WT's tenure here. Hence not a great argument to make in support of your WT admiration society. But, hey some here are used to it. We had to endure the "great get... incredible he'd come here" Gary Andersen vs the schlep Mike Riley BS for almost 2 years. Same dance, different song... Ernie... 379-339 overall (.528)... 24 seasons WCC, Pac12... Pac12 @ WSU 19-57 (.250) ... (6) NCAAs, (2) Elite 8s... (2) NIT semis. Top half finish in Pac12, 9 of his 17 seasons. Your buddy Wayne... 225-163 (.580) 13 seasons most at a lower comp level... Pac12 @ OSU 28-48 (.368)... (4) NCAA 1st rd, (1) CBI. Pac12 top half 1 in 4 completed seasons... in and era where Pac12 is arguably far weaker. And... in far more seasons in tougher conference. Not sure you truly want to compare him to Ernie to make a better coaching point as WSU was in about the shape (maybe a bit worse) after the 29-62 (.319) Ken Bone era than "orange googles" want to admit post Craig Robinson 39-69 (.362) era. But wait... if Ernis is such trash at WSU, and statistically (+9 over 4.5 seasons) WT is about the same then ?? Orange googles? I'm not saying that WT is a great coach, but I do think he is better than people give him credit for. And, at least he got us to the dance one year, more than Ernie has done at WSU. Ernie had some great recruiting assistants at uo. He was able to get in some great guards and wings. He would have done even better there if he could have ever got or developed a decent post player. I don't think he is a great X and O coach, he just got some great guards that his assistants recruited.
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Post by mbabeav on Jan 18, 2019 11:43:39 GMT -8
After watching the game was wondering what was the deal with Tres. Is his ankle that bad that he can't run and dribble into a crowd without losing balance and falling over? Has to play man... 80% and still take 1/3 of the shot attempts. If he doesn't get off of it it will be this way most of the season. It looked it was pretty physical inside, and the refs were calling it both ways, as in not calling it. We were even bricking free throws in the first half, I swear the score was 17-11 debils for like 5 game minutes. Fugly basketball.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 18, 2019 12:09:46 GMT -8
And toss out Ernie's at whoregon? And... Erie is a good coach? That was said... where? I commented because he's always brought up as doing zero at WSU. Statistically in equal seasons, it is VERY similar to WT's tenure here. Hence not a great argument to make in support of your WT admiration society. But, hey some here are used to it. We had to endure the "great get... incredible he'd come here" Gary Andersen vs the schlep Mike Riley BS for almost 2 years. Same dance, different song... Ernie... 379-339 overall (.528)... 24 seasons WCC, Pac12... Pac12 @ WSU 19-57 (.250) ... (6) NCAAs, (2) Elite 8s... (2) NIT semis. Top half finish in Pac12, 9 of his 17 seasons. Your buddy Wayne... 225-163 (.580) 13 seasons most at a lower comp level... Pac12 @ OSU 28-48 (.368)... (4) NCAA 1st rd, (1) CBI. Pac12 top half 1 in 4 completed seasons... in and era where Pac12 is arguably far weaker. And... in far more seasons in tougher conference. Not sure you truly want to compare him to Ernie to make a better coaching point as WSU was in about the shape (maybe a bit worse) after the 29-62 (.319) Ken Bone era than "orange googles" want to admit post Craig Robinson 39-69 (.362) era. But wait... if Ernis is such trash at WSU, and statistically (+9 over 4.5 seasons) WT is about the same then ?? Orange googles?I'm not saying that WT is a great coach, but I do think he is better than people give him credit for. And, at least he got us to the dance one year, more than Ernie has done at WSU. Ernie had some great recruiting assistants at uo. He was able to get in some great guards and wings. He would have done even better there if he could have ever got or developed a decent post player. I don't think he is a great X and O coach, he just got some great guards that his assistants recruited. Not aimed at you specifically. In general of the extreme supporters that basically use "the dance" as the only precursor for WT being a good coach. I actually do not see much of a difference in the two as far as coaching goes. I was never around Ernie, but friends watched practice all the time and assistants did much of the coaching, Ernie was the CEO the last half of his tenure. I have only seen maybe a dozen WT practice sessions and walk thrus... Rupp does a LOT of the coaching... Rupp does most of the in-game talking in the coach's only portion of the huddle. I do not think either is a great x's/o's coach, nor excel at in game adjustments. As far as recruiting... assistants or HC... Ernie had the "Nike $" pull, but a HC is responsible for his entire program, if your assistants aren't great recruiters it's on the HC to get better assistants. My issue is that OSU wasn't that bad as people want to claim with CR (similar to the MR haters), nor is WT a huge step forward. In fact I'd argue if he a ST Sr had not had kids that were D1 recruits this program would be declining from the CR level. The recruits all have potential, some seem to scratch the surface, but none outside the coaches' kids (Tres in particular, Ethan maybe on the way) have truly been Pac12 difference makers that will build this program, let alone draw in other very good talent. And losing recruits that may or may not develop just keeps getting us 'younger'... either in age or in the system.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 18, 2019 13:14:58 GMT -8
Orange googles?I'm not saying that WT is a great coach, but I do think he is better than people give him credit for. And, at least he got us to the dance one year, more than Ernie has done at WSU. Ernie had some great recruiting assistants at uo. He was able to get in some great guards and wings. He would have done even better there if he could have ever got or developed a decent post player. I don't think he is a great X and O coach, he just got some great guards that his assistants recruited. Not aimed at you specifically. In general of the extreme supporters that basically use "the dance" as the only precursor for WT being a good coach. I actually do not see much of a difference in the two as far as coaching goes. I was never around Ernie, but friends watched practice all the time and assistants did much of the coaching, Ernie was the CEO the last half of his tenure. I have only seen maybe a dozen WT practice sessions and walk thrus... Rupp does a LOT of the coaching... Rupp does most of the in-game talking in the coach's only portion of the huddle. I do not think either is a great x's/o's coach, nor excel at in game adjustments. As far as recruiting... assistants or HC... Ernie had the "Nike $" pull, but a HC is responsible for his entire program, if your assistants aren't great recruiters it's on the HC to get better assistants. My issue is that OSU wasn't that bad as people want to claim with CR (similar to the MR haters), nor is WT a huge step forward. In fact I'd argue if he a ST Sr had not had kids that were D1 recruits this program would be declining from the CR level. The recruits all have potential, some seem to scratch the surface, but none outside the coaches' kids (Tres in particular, Ethan maybe on the way) have truly been Pac12 difference makers that will build this program, let alone draw in other very good talent. And losing recruits that may or may not develop just keeps getting us 'younger'... either in age or in the system. I thought that CR was a decent recruiter, but a bad coach. I think WT is an average or slightly above average coach, but maybe not as good as a recruiter. That may make the results close to a wash, but I would still give WT a slight advantage. Plus, honestly I just like how Wayne represents the program and is active and involved with fans and the community. I'm pulling for him, but it will be a challenge next year, especially if Tres decides he is done.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jan 18, 2019 13:35:33 GMT -8
Not aimed at you specifically. In general of the extreme supporters that basically use "the dance" as the only precursor for WT being a good coach. I actually do not see much of a difference in the two as far as coaching goes. I was never around Ernie, but friends watched practice all the time and assistants did much of the coaching, Ernie was the CEO the last half of his tenure. I have only seen maybe a dozen WT practice sessions and walk thrus... Rupp does a LOT of the coaching... Rupp does most of the in-game talking in the coach's only portion of the huddle. I do not think either is a great x's/o's coach, nor excel at in game adjustments. As far as recruiting... assistants or HC... Ernie had the "Nike $" pull, but a HC is responsible for his entire program, if your assistants aren't great recruiters it's on the HC to get better assistants. My issue is that OSU wasn't that bad as people want to claim with CR (similar to the MR haters), nor is WT a huge step forward. In fact I'd argue if he a ST Sr had not had kids that were D1 recruits this program would be declining from the CR level. The recruits all have potential, some seem to scratch the surface, but none outside the coaches' kids (Tres in particular, Ethan maybe on the way) have truly been Pac12 difference makers that will build this program, let alone draw in other very good talent. And losing recruits that may or may not develop just keeps getting us 'younger'... either in age or in the system. I thought that CR was a decent recruiter, but a bad coach. I think WT is an average or slightly above average coach, but maybe not as good as a recruiter. That may make the results close to a wash, but I would still give WT a slight advantage. Plus, honestly I just like how Wayne represents the program and is active and involved with fans and the community. I'm pulling for him, but it will be a challenge next year, especially if Tres decides he is done. My opinion was forged by yesterday's game, as I alluded to before. ASU was a must win to show us that we are contenders. We all saw yesterday, we are probably not a NCAA team. We still could be an NIT team. We are likely an above average Pac-12 team, but we are not in the driver's seat in this conference. We are in the battle for 4th-6th place finish... and that should be considered a disappointment given where this team is at. But with that said, I overall support WT for a number of reasons. The biggest simply being, toss out one miserable year and he has had more success than any other coach in a generation here. Heck, keep in that one miserable year and he still has had more overall success than most coaches in a generation here. He IS nudging us there. I agree we haven't had great recruiting success. I would say consistency there is the issue. Kelley is a tremendous win on that front. I like the cut of that Washington guy's jib... but on the whole a lot of other people have been suspect. But I agree that WT is no Dana Altman. He isn't a s%#tbag of a human, his out of control daughter notwithstanding... He DOES represent OSU well. His players are all largely pretty good guys. No major scandals of note. Being a .500 team isn't on a lot of people's wish list. but if we are honest, .500 ball is better than a lot of years here. At SOME point, we may hit the wall with Tinkle. We may be at the ceiling, I just don't know if it is now.
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