|
Post by nexus73 on Dec 28, 2018 22:04:06 GMT -8
Pac-12 team wins bowl game. Can we get more than one W? Given that WSU was up 21-7 and watched the Cyclones close the gap, it is a bloody miracle there was not a Coug it ending. 11 wins for them for the first time. That matches our best season but we got that last win in a BCS bowl so mild edge Beavs.
|
|
|
Post by seastape on Dec 29, 2018 1:27:54 GMT -8
Pac-12 team wins bowl game. Can we get more than one W? Given that WSU was up 21-7 and watched the Cyclones close the gap, it is a bloody miracle there was not a Coug it ending. 11 wins for them for the first time. That matches our best season but we got that last win in a BCS bowl so mild edge Beavs.
The 2018 Cougs are an excellent team but they have two losses and that fact alone pushes them out of the conversation that compares teams to the 2000 Beavers. Even if you do compare the two... WSU's two losses were a road loss against an average (at best!) SC team and a HOME loss to a very good, but not great, UW team that absolutely shut down the vaunted "Air Raid." The 2000 Beaves lost on the road earlier in their season against a Husky team that wound up being the #3 team in the nation. In my eyes, UW was one of a handful of teams that were worthy of being placed in the title game that year. On another note: I advocate an expansion of the college football playoff to eight teams I have to admit that a large part of that position is that if such a format had existed in 2000 we likely would have been given the opportunity to see how far that Beaver team could have gone. Oregon State was one of eight teams in the four BCS bowls that year. I also think that year would have been a great year for an eight team playoff. The four BCS bowls in 2000 featured the winners of the six BCS conferences and two at-large berths, Oregon State and Notre Dame. The eight teams were comprised of the only undefeated team in the BCS (formerly 1A) division of college football (Oklahoma), four one-loss teams (Miami, UW, Oregon State, Fla. St.), two two-loss teams (Fla. and ND), and a three-loss team, Purdue, that got in because they won the Big 10 title. The 2000 season had a team with a legitimate gripe at a BCS-bowl snub: Virginia Tech. They finished the regular season at 10-1 but finished second in the worst BCS conference, the Big East. The Big East featured Miami and Virginia Tech at the top of the conference but filled out the next four slots in the conference standings with four five-loss teams. OSU was at #6 in the BCS Standings before the bowl games were played, which would have put OSU in a first-round matchup of the third place team, Miami. It would have been nice to have seen a game against a team like that instead of going against the fan/media favorite but vastly overrated and ultimately outmatched Notre Dame team. Notre Dame could then have gotten blasted by the Sooners instead of the Beavs and given their fans the excuse that they lost to the only undefeated team in the country. That could have been the opening salvo of a good football playoff. Purdue could have gotten blasted by Florida State instead of UW and then two outstanding teams out of UW, Miami, OSU and Florida could have set the stage for a second round showdown against Oklahoma and Florida State.
|
|
|
Post by hottubbeaver on Dec 29, 2018 12:46:42 GMT -8
Pac-12 team wins bowl game. Can we get more than one W? Given that WSU was up 21-7 and watched the Cyclones close the gap, it is a bloody miracle there was not a Coug it ending. 11 wins for them for the first time. That matches our best season but we got that last win in a BCS bowl so mild edge Beavs.
The 2018 Cougs are an excellent team but they have two losses and that fact alone pushes them out of the conversation that compares teams to the 2000 Beavers. Even if you do compare the two... WSU's two losses were a road loss against an average (at best!) SC team and a HOME loss to a very good, but not great, UW team that absolutely shut down the vaunted "Air Raid." The 2000 Beaves lost on the road earlier in their season against a Husky team that wound up being the #3 team in the nation. In my eyes, UW was one of a handful of teams that were worthy of being placed in the title game that year. On another note: I advocate an expansion of the college football playoff to eight teams I have to admit that a large part of that position is that if such a format had existed in 2000 we likely would have been given the opportunity to see how far that Beaver team could have gone. Oregon State was one of eight teams in the four BCS bowls that year. I also think that year would have been a great year for an eight team playoff. The four BCS bowls in 2000 featured the winners of the six BCS conferences and two at-large berths, Oregon State and Notre Dame. The eight teams were comprised of the only undefeated team in the BCS (formerly 1A) division of college football (Oklahoma), four one-loss teams (Miami, UW, Oregon State, Fla. St.), two two-loss teams (Fla. and ND), and a three-loss team, Purdue, that got in because they won the Big 10 title. The 2000 season had a team with a legitimate gripe at a BCS-bowl snub: Virginia Tech. They finished the regular season at 10-1 but finished second in the worst BCS conference, the Big East. The Big East featured Miami and Virginia Tech at the top of the conference but filled out the next four slots in the conference standings with four five-loss teams. OSU was at #6 in the BCS Standings before the bowl games were played, which would have put OSU in a first-round matchup of the third place team, Miami. It would have been nice to have seen a game against a team like that instead of going against the fan/media favorite but vastly overrated and ultimately outmatched Notre Dame team. Notre Dame could then have gotten blasted by the Sooners instead of the Beavs and given their fans the excuse that they lost to the only undefeated team in the country. That could have been the opening salvo of a good football playoff. Purdue could have gotten blasted by Florida State instead of UW and then two outstanding teams out of UW, Miami, OSU and Florida could have set the stage for a second round showdown against Oklahoma and Florida State. Comparing teams from different eras is fun but pointless. In 2000 you didn't have a 12 game regular season, split divisions, or a conference championship game.
I don't know how the cougs stack up against our 2000 team but I do know the cougs loss at USC was at the center of the scandal involving the conference heads meddling with the replay officials calls. What amounted to a game deciding targeting call that should have been made on USC's Porter Gustin, a clear cut a targeting call, was determined after replay review to not be targeting.
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Dec 29, 2018 16:19:23 GMT -8
Pac-12 team wins bowl game. Can we get more than one W? Given that WSU was up 21-7 and watched the Cyclones close the gap, it is a bloody miracle there was not a Coug it ending. 11 wins for them for the first time. That matches our best season but we got that last win in a BCS bowl so mild edge Beavs.
I think I'd rate OSU's 2000 a bit better than a "mild edge" over WSU 2018. 2000 OSU - conference co-champions - finished in a 3-way-tie for 1st with a round-robin knockout amongst the 3 leaders. Only loss was a 3-point road loss. 2018 WSU - North Division co-champions - lost head-to-head to the Division Champs. Losses were also a 3-point road loss, and a 2 score loss at home vs their rival for the Division Championship. That 2nd loss, a much lower national ranking, and lesser bowl game won by 2 points over a perennial conference doormat team vs OSU win by blowout fashion over a historically strong program doesn't stack up well. OSU 2000 vs WSU 2018 isn't a "mild edge" in any way, shape, or form. Every WSU player and fan would trade their 2018 for our 2000 without hesitation.
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Dec 29, 2018 17:46:49 GMT -8
Pac-12 team wins bowl game. Can we get more than one W? Given that WSU was up 21-7 and watched the Cyclones close the gap, it is a bloody miracle there was not a Coug it ending. 11 wins for them for the first time. That matches our best season but we got that last win in a BCS bowl so mild edge Beavs.
I think I'd rate OSU's 2000 a bit better than a "mild edge" over WSU 2018. 2000 OSU - conference co-champions - finished in a 3-way-tie for 1st with a round-robin knockout amongst the 3 leaders. Only loss was a 3-point road loss. 2018 WSU - North Division co-champions - lost head-to-head to the Division Champs. Losses were also a 3-point road loss, and a 2 score loss at home vs their rival for the Division Championship. That 2nd loss, a much lower national ranking, and lesser bowl game won by 2 points over a perennial conference doormat team vs OSU win by blowout fashion over a historically strong program doesn't stack up well. OSU 2000 vs WSU 2018 isn't a "mild edge" in any way, shape, or form. Every WSU player and fan would trade their 2018 for our 2000 without hesitation. how can wsu be co/champs when they lost the head to head with uw?
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Dec 29, 2018 22:50:19 GMT -8
I think I'd rate OSU's 2000 a bit better than a "mild edge" over WSU 2018. 2000 OSU - conference co-champions - finished in a 3-way-tie for 1st with a round-robin knockout amongst the 3 leaders. Only loss was a 3-point road loss. 2018 WSU - North Division co-champions - lost head-to-head to the Division Champs. Losses were also a 3-point road loss, and a 2 score loss at home vs their rival for the Division Championship. That 2nd loss, a much lower national ranking, and lesser bowl game won by 2 points over a perennial conference doormat team vs OSU win by blowout fashion over a historically strong program doesn't stack up well. OSU 2000 vs WSU 2018 isn't a "mild edge" in any way, shape, or form. Every WSU player and fan would trade their 2018 for our 2000 without hesitation. how can wsu be co/champs when they lost the head to head with uw? They tied with the same record and only lost the champ game berth due to losing on tie-breakers - technically, they are division co-champions.
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Dec 30, 2018 18:05:50 GMT -8
how can wsu be co/champs when they lost the head to head with uw? They tied with the same record and only lost the champ game berth due to losing on tie-breakers - technically, they are division co-champions. so losing on tie-breakers = winning the championship. That’s a wierd way to look at this. For me, if you look at the final p12 standings, they have UW over WSU. Therefore, UW is the North champion. Wsu is 2nd in the north.
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Dec 30, 2018 23:11:39 GMT -8
They tied with the same record and only lost the champ game berth due to losing on tie-breakers - technically, they are division co-champions. so losing on tie-breakers = winning the championship. That’s a wierd way to look at this. For me, if you look at the final p12 standings, they have UW over WSU. Therefore, UW is the North champion. Wsu is 2nd in the north. No, tying for the division championship makes you a co-champion. Losing the tie-breakers for the championship berth doesn't dismiss the fact that you had the same record as another team. Oregon State 2000 were co-champions of the Pac-10. We didn't qualify for the Rose Bowl because we lost the tie-breakers, and the final tie-breaker was head-to-head with UW. That's the way the Pac-10/12 does it.
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Dec 31, 2018 11:15:42 GMT -8
so losing on tie-breakers = winning the championship. That’s a wierd way to look at this. For me, if you look at the final p12 standings, they have UW over WSU. Therefore, UW is the North champion. Wsu is 2nd in the north. No, tying for the division championship makes you a co-champion. Losing the tie-breakers for the championship berth doesn't dismiss the fact that you had the same record as another team. Oregon State 2000 were co-champions of the Pac-10. We didn't qualify for the Rose Bowl because we lost the tie-breakers, and the final tie-breaker was head-to-head with UW. That's the way the Pac-10/12 does it. You can have your take on it, but the P12 disagrees. “SAN FRANCISCO—The WASHINGTON Huskies captured the Pac-12 North Division title as they defeated rival WASHINGTON STATE, 28-15, in Pullman, Wash., Saturday night. The Huskies will face the UTAH Utes from the South Division in the eighth annual Pac-12 Football Championship Game on Friday, November 30, at Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara, Calif.” In the article from conference HQ there is no reference to a co-Championship for the North. By winning the head to head tie breaker, UW is out right North division champs. pac-12.com/article/2018/11/23/2018-pac-12-football-championship-game-set-washington-secures-north
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Dec 31, 2018 11:52:11 GMT -8
No, tying for the division championship makes you a co-champion. Losing the tie-breakers for the championship berth doesn't dismiss the fact that you had the same record as another team. Oregon State 2000 were co-champions of the Pac-10. We didn't qualify for the Rose Bowl because we lost the tie-breakers, and the final tie-breaker was head-to-head with UW. That's the way the Pac-10/12 does it. You can have your take on it, but the P12 disagrees. “SAN FRANCISCO—The WASHINGTON Huskies captured the Pac-12 North Division title as they defeated rival WASHINGTON STATE, 28-15, in Pullman, Wash., Saturday night. The Huskies will face the UTAH Utes from the South Division in the eighth annual Pac-12 Football Championship Game on Friday, November 30, at Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara, Calif.” In the article from conference HQ there is no reference to a co-Championship for the North. By winning the head to head tie breaker, UW is out right North division champs. pac-12.com/article/2018/11/23/2018-pac-12-football-championship-game-set-washington-secures-northIt's not really MY take, I was only saying what the Pac-10/12 has always said in the past. OSU 2000 were co-champions. That wasn't MY interpretation, that was the interpretation of the Pac-10. It's possible that the Pac-12 has abandoned the idea of "co-champions". It's just as likely that whoever wrote the press release has no idea how the Pac-12 "officially" does it. I don't really care if the Pac has changed whether it calls teams that tie by record and lose by tie-breakers co-champions or not, I was merely passing along how they have done it in the past, and the logic THEY used to do so.
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Dec 31, 2018 14:43:51 GMT -8
You can have your take on it, but the P12 disagrees. “SAN FRANCISCO—The WASHINGTON Huskies captured the Pac-12 North Division title as they defeated rival WASHINGTON STATE, 28-15, in Pullman, Wash., Saturday night. The Huskies will face the UTAH Utes from the South Division in the eighth annual Pac-12 Football Championship Game on Friday, November 30, at Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara, Calif.” In the article from conference HQ there is no reference to a co-Championship for the North. By winning the head to head tie breaker, UW is out right North division champs. pac-12.com/article/2018/11/23/2018-pac-12-football-championship-game-set-washington-secures-northIt's not really MY take, I was only saying what the Pac-10/12 has always said in the past. OSU 2000 were co-champions. That wasn't MY interpretation, that was the interpretation of the Pac-10. It's possible that the Pac-12 has abandoned the idea of "co-champions". It's just as likely that whoever wrote the press release has no idea how the Pac-12 "officially" does it. I don't really care if the Pac has changed whether it calls teams that tie by record and lose by tie-breakers co-champions or not, I was merely passing along how they have done it in the past, and the logic THEY used to do so. It ain’t 2000 anymore. Also in 2000 there was a 3 way tie at the top, no divisions, and no championship game. So yes things have changed. I’ll go with the official press release from the conference and their published standings. For “not caring” you sure have spent some posts arguing about it.
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Dec 31, 2018 19:06:16 GMT -8
It's not really MY take, I was only saying what the Pac-10/12 has always said in the past. OSU 2000 were co-champions. That wasn't MY interpretation, that was the interpretation of the Pac-10. It's possible that the Pac-12 has abandoned the idea of "co-champions". It's just as likely that whoever wrote the press release has no idea how the Pac-12 "officially" does it. I don't really care if the Pac has changed whether it calls teams that tie by record and lose by tie-breakers co-champions or not, I was merely passing along how they have done it in the past, and the logic THEY used to do so. It ain’t 2000 anymore. Also in 2000 there was a 3 way tie at the top, no divisions, and no championship game. So yes things have changed. I’ll go with the official press release from the conference and their published standings. For “not caring” you sure have spent some posts arguing about it. You asked the question, I just answered. Sorry if you thought I was "arguing" with you. I was merely stating how it has been done in the past, and the logic behind it. I feel like your level of "care" here has surpassed mine, but, whatever.
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Dec 31, 2018 23:49:13 GMT -8
It ain’t 2000 anymore. Also in 2000 there was a 3 way tie at the top, no divisions, and no championship game. So yes things have changed. I’ll go with the official press release from the conference and their published standings. For “not caring” you sure have spent some posts arguing about it. You asked the question, I just answered. Sorry if you thought I was "arguing" with you. I was merely stating how it has been done in the past, and the logic behind it. I feel like your level of "care" here has surpassed mine, but, whatever. agreed, I definitely care about the facts.
|
|
|
Post by kersting13 on Jan 1, 2019 11:42:44 GMT -8
You asked the question, I just answered. Sorry if you thought I was "arguing" with you. I was merely stating how it has been done in the past, and the logic behind it. I feel like your level of "care" here has surpassed mine, but, whatever. agreed, I definitely care about the facts. Sure, lol.
|
|