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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 28, 2018 10:53:19 GMT -8
Since coming to OSU, Tinkle has consistently produced a mediocre team. And he's had years to do it. The fact that his overall performance is apparently accepted by so many is the very reason why prospects for an improved future remain as bleak as ever. An (apparently) pervasive notion that we can't do much better is self-perpetuating, defeatist and just plain wrong. And the thinking you are recommending? Wouldn't that be the thinking that contributed to us getting Andersen?
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 28, 2018 10:57:49 GMT -8
I haven't been following this discussion, so maybe this has been asked. Name ONE high profile coach who would be willing to come to OSU if Tinkle was fired? Just ONE, is all I ask. A no-name, untried assistant ain't gonna do it. It would take a high profile and successful coach to come to OSU to be able to attract the high level talent needed to ensure NCAA tournament bids. Name one. We're lucky to have Tinkle. So I think you should put up or shut up. LMAO... again the moniker fits. OSU is the lucky one? Ha... By the way, who said it needs to be a "high profile, successful" coach? What about just successful that teaches a fundamentally sound team game? Tons of examples in both the men's and women's game of successful small college or small D1 school coaches coming to larger D1 schools and finding success. In fact almost all started in that fashion. Scott Rueck ring a bell? Now OSU is lucky to have him. People like to use Scott Ruek as an example... so name the next Scott Ruek. You say there are tons just like him.
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Post by bennysdentist on Dec 28, 2018 11:53:28 GMT -8
Tommy Lloyd. Not that he’d leave Gonzaga.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 28, 2018 12:33:23 GMT -8
LMAO... again the moniker fits. OSU is the lucky one? Ha... By the way, who said it needs to be a "high profile, successful" coach? What about just successful that teaches a fundamentally sound team game? Tons of examples in both the men's and women's game of successful small college or small D1 school coaches coming to larger D1 schools and finding success. In fact almost all started in that fashion. Scott Rueck ring a bell? Now OSU is lucky to have him. People like to use Scott Ruek as an example... so name the next Scott Ruek. You say there are tons just like him. Pick almost every successful D1 coach. They didn't typically begin at UConn, Duke, MissSt, NC, etc etc etc.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 28, 2018 12:40:12 GMT -8
LMAO... again the moniker fits. OSU is the lucky one? Ha... By the way, who said it needs to be a "high profile, successful" coach? What about just successful that teaches a fundamentally sound team game? Tons of examples in both the men's and women's game of successful small college or small D1 school coaches coming to larger D1 schools and finding success. In fact almost all started in that fashion. Scott Rueck ring a bell? Now OSU is lucky to have him. People like to use Scott Ruek as an example... so name the next Scott Ruek. You say there are tons just like him. Comparing the Men's program to the Women's program is ridiculous and unfair. Higher profile recruits in the Men's game have the only goal of making it to the NBA. Women recruits pick a place for the school, the coach, the other players and the goal of getting a degree. The Men choose based on what coach can get them to the NBA as quick as possible and where they can get their stats to make them look like NBA players. Scott has done a great job, but it is way easier to build a Womens program at a school like OSU then a Men's program. We do not have the tradition (it has been long gone), the facilities or the location to draw high-level Men's recruits easily. It takes a lot of time, good coaching and some luck to build a program that has our inherent disadvantages. I'm still hopeful that Tinkle can get us over the hump, but it is often frustrating to watch. Tinkle is a good man who represents the university well and is active and visible in the community and the players do well in school. I'm still crossing my fingers for him. However, it may be time for him to evaluate the level of assistants that he currently has.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 28, 2018 12:42:54 GMT -8
Nelson played team ball? When? Also, people complain about our D now. Roberto didn’t know what D stood for. And Reid? Tripping officials is team ball? I think. Stevie and Roberto had to have been coached by the same coach in high school or something like that because they play defense the same which is not really at all. they box out the same which once again is not much at all. they take shots from all over the court and you if they're missing they keep chucking them up with no shame. And can both get very lazy. I think they are comparable players but Roberto in my opinion was better. When he was in to the game her had way more dog in him Stevie actually gives some effort on D. Roberto didn't even try. Roberto might have been a better shooter, but he is not a better player.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 28, 2018 13:21:17 GMT -8
I think. Stevie and Roberto had to have been coached by the same coach in high school or something like that because they play defense the same which is not really at all. they box out the same which once again is not much at all. they take shots from all over the court and you if they're missing they keep chucking them up with no shame. And can both get very lazy. I think they are comparable players but Roberto in my opinion was better. When he was in to the game her had way more dog in him Stevie actually gives some effort on D. Roberto didn't even try. Roberto might have been a better shooter, but he is not a better player. Roberto was maybe the most prolific pure scorer that has been in the program in the last 25-30 years. While he may have been a liability on defense having someone like him that is able to get a bucket when you need to break a drought or create something from nothing at the end of the shot clock would be huge for this team and any of WT's teams for that matter. I still remember the game where he lost his shoe, kept playing, and still buried back to back 3 pointers. He was a fun player to watch for sure.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 28, 2018 13:55:50 GMT -8
What big has WT recruited better than... hmmm... Angus?I think WT recruit Drew Eubanks, now in the NBA after only three years, was/is a better player than Angus. Of course, there was no player development while Eubanks was here. Guys who didn't seriously play basketball until their junior year in high school regularly make an NBA roster after only three years of college. Wait... you're talking NBA style player, more athletic. Angus was far and away the better basketball player. Better hands, better handle, could actually face up and hit from three... etc etc etc. If you think otherwise then there's no need to go further because your definition of a basketball player and the development of one are exactly why OSU is where it is. So, if the thread and goal is for WT to recruit and build NBA G-league talent that can't win college games at a .500 clip. Yep... WT is... yeah... PS- Drew spent the better part of two off seasons training/developing outside WT's tutelage. Most of the development you claim was not Wayne. Angus Brant averaged 7 points and 3 rebounds in his OSU career. Drew Eubanks averaged almost twice as many points, more than twice as many rebounds per game, and blocked a lot more shots. He has also played in the NBA, the premier basketball league in the world. But I guess Angus was better. WT has been the coach for 4+ years at OSU. He has two winning records, a .500 record, a winning record this year, and one terrible, outlier season. So he has won college games at a .500 clip, here and at Montana. Baseball players also train with others during the off-season. Do you also credit those coaches for most of their development? He spent 7-8 months of the year being coached at OSU. Clearly something they did made him a better basketball player. Not saying WT is the answer, but we'll just agree to disagree on those points.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 28, 2018 14:41:43 GMT -8
Stevie actually gives some effort on D. Roberto didn't even try. Roberto might have been a better shooter, but he is not a better player. Roberto was maybe the most prolific pure scorer that has been in the program in the last 25-30 years. While he may have been a liability on defense having someone like him that is able to get a bucket when you need to break a drought or create something from nothing at the end of the shot clock would be huge for this team and any of WT's teams for that matter. I still remember the game where he lost his shoe, kept playing, and still buried back to back 3 pointers. He was a fun player to watch for sure. You may want to change your timeline above. GP played within that timeframe. Seeing him drop 58 against baby jordan and the toejams is still my all time favorite Beav game
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 28, 2018 15:04:32 GMT -8
Roberto was maybe the most prolific pure scorer that has been in the program in the last 25-30 years. While he may have been a liability on defense having someone like him that is able to get a bucket when you need to break a drought or create something from nothing at the end of the shot clock would be huge for this team and any of WT's teams for that matter. I still remember the game where he lost his shoe, kept playing, and still buried back to back 3 pointers. He was a fun player to watch for sure. You may want to change your timeline above. GP played within that timeframe. Seeing him drop 58 against baby jordan and the toejams is still my all time favorite Beav game Guess I should've said since GP since that was the thought that was going through my head when I posted it. You'll have no argument from me there even if GP was unfortunately before my time.
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Post by mbabeav on Dec 28, 2018 15:34:54 GMT -8
You may want to change your timeline above. GP played within that timeframe. Seeing him drop 58 against baby jordan and the toejams is still my all time favorite Beav game Guess I should've said since GP since that was the thought that was going through my head when I posted it. You'll have no argument from me there even if GP was unfortunately before my time. David Lucas, Jared Cunningham, "Bones" Barry, Corey Benjamin, Tres Tinkle - I have a lot of guys that rank ahead of Roberto - the one thing he will always be tops in my book is in his giving to the community and the world; his caring for his handicapped friend that he bought with him to OSU, his Beavers without Borders participation. As a wonderful representative for Oregon State, few can top him.
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Post by Tigardbeav on Dec 28, 2018 16:06:30 GMT -8
Hmmmm... must have been as the Pac12 was better, they were supposedly inferior recruits with inferior coaching, suffered some major setbacks with injuries/eligibility yet +6 in Ws over the first 4 years of the CR era without two years of a GPII type player. Oh... year 5 of those recruiting years was a 21-15 team. Betting that is better than year 5 of WT. So if WT is the better coach, better recruits, weak OOC, weak Pac12... what's wrong? Folks seemed to hate on CR quickly, but recruiting? What big has WT recruited better than... hmmm... Angus? Burton by far better than Big G. Any toughness of Collier and Jarmaal? Stevie and Roberto the same playground type, but Nelson far superior. Tres is the only better position recruit so far. As of now Duvivier was better overall than Ethan is now. Again, none great but they won with, again, supposedly terrible coaching. So, the point is pretty basic... can't have it both ways. If the coaching and recruiting is better why are the results basically the same? That's because Craig Robinson was a stockbroker moonlighting as a basketball coach. People hate on Jay John quickly but at least JJ knew something about basketball. CR's coaching was a joke. Bond broker. In a environment where interest rates were moving down for 30 years. One of the great bond markets of all time You could be a schlub and still have a good record. It does takes skill don't get me wrong. Look at Bill Gross now(Pimco) Great record...until the Fed started taking away the money train I'll leave others to evaluate his BB coaching
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 28, 2018 16:44:11 GMT -8
That's because Craig Robinson was a stockbroker moonlighting as a basketball coach. People hate on Jay John quickly but at least JJ knew something about basketball. CR's coaching was a joke. Bond broker. In a environment where interest rates were moving down for 30 years. One of the great bond markets of all time You could be a schlub and still have a good record. It does takes skill don't get me wrong. Look at Bill Gross now(Pimco) Great record...until the Fed started taking away the money train I'll leave others to evaluate his BB coaching Stop stealing my lines Spaulding.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 28, 2018 20:13:02 GMT -8
Wait... you're talking NBA style player, more athletic. Angus was far and away the better basketball player. Better hands, better handle, could actually face up and hit from three... etc etc etc. If you think otherwise then there's no need to go further because your definition of a basketball player and the development of one are exactly why OSU is where it is. So, if the thread and goal is for WT to recruit and build NBA G-league talent that can't win college games at a .500 clip. Yep... WT is... yeah... PS- Drew spent the better part of two off seasons training/developing outside WT's tutelage. Most of the development you claim was not Wayne. Angus Brant averaged 7 points and 3 rebounds in his OSU career. Drew Eubanks averaged almost twice as many points, more than twice as many rebounds per game, and blocked a lot more shots. He has also played in the NBA, the premier basketball league in the world. But I guess Angus was better. WT has been the coach for 4+ years at OSU. He has two winning records, a .500 record, a winning record this year, and one terrible, outlier season. So he has won college games at a .500 clip, here and at Montana. Baseball players also train with others during the off-season. Do you also credit those coaches for most of their development? He spent 7-8 months of the year being coached at OSU. Clearly something they did made him a better basketball player. Not saying WT is the answer, but we'll just agree to disagree on those points. Moving targets you give... Angus was a better skilled player in every facet. Never mentioned stats which are directly related to PT, which is directly related to teammates on said rosters, and injury. Drew's NBA status is based on athleticism and potential. If Drew had a great skill set he'd be at a far different level. Montana, the level of play, OOC opponents, etc has zero to do with his OSU stint. WT is not at .500... and his OSU teams have been horrendous on the road. So we will disagree. Stats and level of play (Angus has achieved some moderate team/national team success in his Aussie pro career) are not be all in terms of skill set, not to mention "coachability". But again your moving targets don't change the original discussion. If recruiting and coaching has been better why have the results in the first four+ years been worse than the bond broker pretending to coach?
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gzr
Freshman
Posts: 106
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Post by gzr on Dec 28, 2018 20:25:30 GMT -8
Nothing is going to improve with Beaver Mens basketball until the players start thinking more about winning than they do about "playing".
That is Tinkle's challenge--As it is now, the attitude appears to be kind of a men's gym attitude of "If I get the ball, then I get to shoot it" mentality.
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