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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 21, 2018 22:27:56 GMT -8
That is slap on the wrist crap... any sanctions or penalties for Romar? None... except letter of reprimand. "Romar and Lance LaVetter, the director of basketball operations, were each found potentially guilty of one minor violation. Romar's involved observing Heytvelt" This isn't a "fire Wayne" thread on my part. But, there is no comparison between the two coaches with regard to success, recruiting, and player development
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Post by fishbeav on Dec 22, 2018 7:40:35 GMT -8
People seem to forget that it took Ralph Miller 6 years to put a winning program together.
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jbjam
Freshman
Posts: 128
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Post by jbjam on Dec 22, 2018 9:22:16 GMT -8
People seem to forget that it took Ralph Miller 6 years to put a winning program together. I'm not sure why you say that. In Ralph's first six years, his only losing season was the first. So they were "winning" all but his first season. Unless you mean conference play? I think the below tables show improvement is not present. But do we really have to compare this? Just look at the play on the court. I don't see a glimmer of hope, if there was I would be patient. Do you think Tinkle is going to suddenly learn what his mistakes are this season? I'd love to be wrong and mocked for this post in the future:( Sadly i'd bet strongly that won't happen. Ralph | Wayne | 4-10 | 8-10 | 9-5 | 9-9 | 6-8 | 1-17 | 6-8 | 7-11 | 10-4 | TBD |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 22, 2018 10:28:29 GMT -8
Dollar's violations were quite serious. Romar oversaw Dollar. He does not escape merited criticism.
LR is probably a great guy, a lot of charisma, etc. But certainly not an exceptional coach, in my opinion. Other opinions may differ, obviously.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 22, 2018 10:30:54 GMT -8
People seem to forget that it took Ralph Miller 6 years to put a winning program together. I'm not sure why you say that. In Ralph's first six years, his only losing season was the first. So they were "winning" all but his first season. Unless you mean conference play? I think the below tables show improvement is not present. But do we really have to compare this? Just look at the play on the court. I don't see a glimmer of hope, if there was I would be patient. Do you think Tinkle is going to suddenly learn what his mistakes are this season? I'd love to be wrong and mocked for this post in the future:( Sadly i'd bet strongly that won't happen. Ralph | Wayne | 4-10 | 8-10 | 9-5 | 9-9 | 6-8 | 1-17 | 6-8 | 7-11 | 10-4 | TBD |
And... by any measure info a much better/tougher basketball league/era.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 22, 2018 11:17:12 GMT -8
I'm not sure why you say that. In Ralph's first six years, his only losing season was the first. So they were "winning" all but his first season. Unless you mean conference play? I think the below tables show improvement is not present. But do we really have to compare this? Just look at the play on the court. I don't see a glimmer of hope, if there was I would be patient. Do you think Tinkle is going to suddenly learn what his mistakes are this season? I'd love to be wrong and mocked for this post in the future:( Sadly i'd bet strongly that won't happen. Ralph | Wayne | 4-10 | 8-10 | 9-5 | 9-9 | 6-8 | 1-17 | 6-8 | 7-11 | 10-4 | TBD |
And... by any measure info a much better/tougher basketball league/era. Believe it or not Baseba111, this isn’t directed at you because I think you tend to see the big picture fairly well. I get a kick out of posters who look at what Coach Miller did here and then say that’s what OSU should expect. Coach Miller kinda goes down as one of the top coaches not just in OSU history but of his era. I get a kick out of people who seem to think if a coach falls short of that it’s time to look for another. If anything less than Miller’s results is cause for a coaching change, we’re going to be firing a lot of coaches for a long time.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 22, 2018 12:54:13 GMT -8
And... by any measure info a much better/tougher basketball league/era. Believe it or not Baseba111, this isn’t directed at you because I think you tend to see the big picture fairly well. I get a kick out of posters who look at what Coach Miller did here and then say that’s what OSU should expect. Coach Miller kinda goes down as one of the top coaches not just in OSU history but of his era. I get a kick out of people who seem to think if a coach falls short of that it’s time to look for another. If anything less than Miller’s results is cause for a coaching change, we’re going to be firing a lot of coaches for a long time. I believe most on here actually do see the big picture more often than not. Comparison is a fool's folly, especially in such differing eras of a sport. The bottom line is what you see on the court... what is evident on a consistent basis. In terms of generalities Ralph's team were consistently fundamentally sound and highly disciplined on both ends of the court. And, if a player was not they didn't play. Ralph wasn't adverse to using depth, but he also saw little use for it if the top 5-7 were performing at his expected level of performance. It was never about wins and losses with Ralph's teams... as they won because of how they played whether more or less talented than the opponent. His wasn't just an expectation/words of performing, it was an demand and discipline instilled each and every day at practice backed by his actions and coaching decisions. The big picture with WT (other coaches in between do not matter, they didn't succeed based on their own merits), is that his teams are about as far from fundamental as you can get without walking into Dixon. He's the current coach and the ONLY one that should be under discussion. WT's teams are not fundamentally sound, they are not disciplined, and never have been... on either end of the court. In fact GPII helped masked the same basic deficiencies currently seen... especially on offense. GP "willed" the offense to score at times, however, the same lack of offensive scheme, scoring droughts, and lack of movement were there, just not as prevalent. The D centered on his ability to dominate the ball and come off and help out, block shots. The "pass" often given on this board is the "...1st tourney in 25 years..." as if that team did not have some of the same exact deficiencies, and of course it was all about WT's coaching. Wait, we supposedly have much better overall talent than "GPII and the leftovers", so??? Funny too... the CR "excuse" was still used prior to this season, yet if you go back and watch games of WT's first two years, the "leftovers" were far more fundamentally developed than those players fully under the tutelage of WT's regime. It's not about W's and L's... it's about the product on the floor. Good news, players seem to be great kids, students, get along, and never in trouble. Bad news is that they are not a good basketball "team". Stating anything about prior coaches failing and who could possibly do better than WT is also a sign of a slip into the acceptance of mediocrity. OSU has made a series of bad coaching hires that failed for various reasons, WT being the best of the hires... so far. To keep him beyond next year (assuming the same type of play, lower tier Pac12 team, etc) is basically giving up. Coaching/hiring is a no guarantee proposition, that often fails more than it succeeds. But, if anything the WBB program shows there are coaches out there who can get it done at OSU, in the Pac12 conference. You don't stop swinging cuz you miss, and you don't stop to accept mediocrity. I do have a distinct feeling WT would be a better coach without "my three sons"... not sure why, but just see that as part of the inconsistency in discipline and enforcing fundamentally sound play. TT seems to consistently look to Dad after each bad play or perceived bad call. But he isn't the issue... he is by far and away the most fundamentally sound player on the team and his off season work shows. The "twins" seem to get some special leeway, Steven far more than Ethan who is by far the more accomplished player. Steven is a train wreck at times and seems to ignore both WT and his dad's instruction (in fact Sr. often says nothing all game long... Rupp does most of the talking to WT and players) and advice... yet plays far too many minutes than he deserves in many contests. It'd be awesome if the fundamentals and discipline suddenly became a consistent feature of WT coached teams. After 4+ years I do not believe that is going to suddenly appear.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 22, 2018 13:15:06 GMT -8
I'm starting to wonder how many coaches out there are successfully coaching fundamentally sound basketball on both sides of the court these days.
Tinkle seemed to be doing it on the defensive side the first couple years, still isn't bad, but the offense isn't there yet at this point.
Now that Vernon's starting to get some more minutes it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see Ethan slide over to the 2 spot and Stevie become the first guard off the bench. My big question is what happens when Big G comes back... does Kelley remain the starting center? Does Kelley slide over and Hollins becomes the first forward off the bench? Still too many questions about this team to predict the rest of thy he season for me.
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