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Post by lebaneaver on Dec 9, 2018 21:00:13 GMT -8
I need to ask if we really committed 20 TOs. Did we? The stats I saw had us with 20 and SC with only 7. Anyone concerned? Go Beavs! Yeah, we could have won by 60 without those turnovers. Sloppy ball handling? Weak passes? I don’t know if SC ....... though crappy...... is one of those scrappy teams who play real frenetic defense..... in your face all game...... who take a lot of chances to steal the ball....? 20 TOs are ahelluvalot against a team as poor as Santa Clara. Am I wrong?
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Post by beavadelic on Dec 9, 2018 21:43:12 GMT -8
Honestly, I wish the Beavs would drop a couple of these cupcakes and upgrade the competition. You’re kidding, right? On paper, the OOC schedule could have been brutal, because judging by last spring, South Carolina should have been a monster game, and Western Kentucky a legit threat. Duke isn’t performing where they should be, but that’s traditionally a big name in women’s hoops. We played #1 Notre Dame, we have Texas A&M coming up, and we played St.Mary’s, who figured to be tough given their perennial battles with Gonzaga in that league. When you play in a league like the PAC 12 in women’s hoops, I would think that 6 or 7 OOC games against strong to outstanding opponents is a pretty healthy schedule. Now, if you really meant it when you said “honestly” (and it’s sometimes hard to tell when the message is in written form) and you were just saying that you wished that the competition was as good as it figured to be when SR and SB made the schedule, I would agree. But if you really believe that anyone in the game should schedule 9 or 10 teams that are in their range, I can’t. With that approach, one key injury and a really good team could enter league play with 5 or 6 losses, and if everything went ideally (maybe 17-3 or 16-4 in the PAC 12), they’re still likely playing in a regional at least 2 time zones away. This year’s OOC schedule, IMO, should have been almost perfectly challenging for a team aspiring to make a serious run in the tourney.
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Post by beaveragain on Dec 9, 2018 22:30:57 GMT -8
It was a good game for the Beav's to play. SC uses a odd zone that gave the Beav's fits at times (hence the TO's). SC continued their stone cold shooting from their last game and so the game wasn't close.
Oddities I saw in the game
- KtMc was chasing around a shortie most of the time she was in the game. Practice for her for defending quicker types? Practice for defending specific players?
-Trish is a natural rebounder, and I like the way she rips them down. She needs lessons from Taya on how to help team mates get rebounds, ie blocking out for others.
-Aleah getting more PT than Destiny. It's great that all these folks are getting the experience, but at some point Coach needs to set in his mind who he wants to be his starters and give them game practice with each other.
Kat-Seems like she's taking to the idea of being instant offense etc lots better than I'd have guessed. Love being wrong.
Post by committee- So far it seems to be doing well enough. We'll see how it continues to work against Duke and Tex.
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Post by lotrader on Dec 10, 2018 6:40:45 GMT -8
The great thing about yesterday's game was everyone got some playing time. And the Beavers played well for nearly all 40 minutes with so many different combinations. That is huge, given that when coach Rueck does finally tighten up the rotation, players (especially the 5) will have played with each other on the court. The ball movement was spectacular yesterday, even when Trish was in the game, the Beavers literally ran the same exact ball movement sequence two times down the court finding Trish for a layup. BTW, Trish played great, and, can #1, catch the ball, #2, make a layup, and #3, rebound the ball. She is already outperforming JG. Trish's conditioning though is not very good, as she was winded after 4 times down the court. Jazz on the other hand literally beat everyone down the court multiple times. I counted 3 times where she was open for a layup and we missed seeing her down court. That kid is going to be a solid contributor next year (if not this year). Plays GREAT defense for a freshman. I'm very happy with this team's progress to date.
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Post by rmancarl on Dec 10, 2018 9:20:21 GMT -8
5 of the TO's were Pivic's, and I'm going to give her a break in this one, because she is having an outstanding season......13 rebounds in this one! I'm surprised at the rebounding numbers the team is putting up so far this year, but the competition has been pretty weak, and when you hold teams shooting percentage down, and you are shooting well, you should be grabbing most of those rebounds.
I'm going to say this again, it's obvious to me that the coaches are trying different combinations, and giving everyone a chance to see how they fit in with this program. Pac 12 season is just around the corner, and finding the combinations that work best together is pretty important at this stage. No offense to Trish, who I hope becomes a star for the Beavers, but I think the key in recent games is to see how Maddie, Janessa, and Jo perform in various situations with the rest of the team. Again, no offense to Trish, but those three have been in the program, and know the program and players, and deserve that first shot at producing. If Trish outperforms them, then all the better for the team.
I do wish the schedule had been a little tougher, but who knew that numerous teams the Beavs scheduled would be having down years? A&M should be a good test, and Duke should will be a solid team even if they are not as strong as expected.
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Post by jegerklog on Dec 10, 2018 9:34:52 GMT -8
Trish seems to be quite athletic for her height and will be a star but probably has a long way to go. It is my understanding that she was a three sport athlete in high school and did not eat and sleep basketball by being on specialty teams year around etc. In this sense she is less experienced compared to many freshman. Is this true?
Although not very athletic, you have to admit that Jo is crowd favorite.
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Post by ricke71 on Dec 10, 2018 13:57:57 GMT -8
PM+JS for ND and So Ca combined total = 4 minutes. About 1 min each/game average. Still not out of line. JS has played more min (63) in less games (6) than PM (38 min/8 games). Point brought up and you disagreed with... weak competition was needed to get frosh minutes. Six of our eight games have been vs weaker teams yet playing time hasn't significantly increased vs any team. Hence, the level of the opponent really hasn't been a determining factor. It's obvious that the staff thinks PM is not ready for more playing time vs any level. Today OSU won by 50+, was in control ever second and PM got 5 late minutes. I think that a big part of the 'problem' is that the Beavs have NINE players, besides these two freshman, that deserve to and NEED to play as many minutes as possible to ready for PAC-12 play - including a couple of Junior players (MW & JT) that have paid their dues for 2 full seasons and are really ready to play this season. And, they have very talented PG that is new (to OSU) that needs as much PT as possible to better synch-up with her veteran teammates. PAC 12 play is only 2-1/2 weeks away.
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Post by bennyskid on Dec 10, 2018 14:16:27 GMT -8
Some of us got to watch the Saturday practice and it was very illuminating regarding Trish, Jo, etc.. Santa Clara plays a different kind of zone than pretty much anyone else, and the coaches had clear ideas about how to beat it. Watching the practice, you could tell that most of the girls got in on the first run-through. Jaz needed a little extra instruction on some details. Trish was looking like she accidentally wandered into a vector calculus class.
I don't mean that as a knock on her intelligence - it's just that these girls are being coached at an incredibly high level. It was eye-opening to see just how high the cognitive demands are on our girls. The coaches had a thorough plan, the girls had about two hours to learn it, and it was impressive to see the next day just how well the girls executed the next day.
I thought Maddie, by the way, was particularly strong in practice. We don't really see all the skills that these girls have - Janessa and Maddie give up a lot of chances to "show off" to better support the other players. Maddie had eight points in the first few minutes of the game, playing aggressively around the hoop, and she could have kept doing that all game long. But as the game went on the other players did a better job of breaking the zone down and Maddie didn't need to work like that anymore. Maddie's early points weren't part of the game plan. To most of us, it looked like, "Maddie's finally getting aggressive - yay!". Meanwhile, I'm sure the coaches were thinking, "Come on, girls, get in your damn positions so Maddie doesn't have to play like that!"
Watching that practice gave me a whole lot more appreciation for those handful of players that we've had make contributions as freshmen. That Katie actually started 10 games at point guard her freshman year is now mind-boggling to me. That Sydney Wiese started at the point her whole freshman year is jaw-dropping. It's hard to overstate just how special those girls are.
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Post by wbosh15 on Dec 10, 2018 14:58:36 GMT -8
Some of us got to watch the Saturday practice and it was very illuminating regarding Trish, Jo, etc.. Santa Clara plays a different kind of zone than pretty much anyone else, and the coaches had clear ideas about how to beat it. Watching the practice, you could tell that most of the girls got in on the first run-through. Jaz needed a little extra instruction on some details. Trish was looking like she accidentally wandered into a vector calculus class. I don't mean that as a knock on her intelligence - it's just that these girls are being coached at an incredibly high level. It was eye-opening to see just how high the cognitive demands are on our girls. The coaches had a thorough plan, the girls had about two hours to learn it, and it was impressive to see the next day just how well the girls executed the next day. I thought Maddie, by the way, was particularly strong in practice. We don't really see all the skills that these girls have - Janessa and Maddie give up a lot of chances to "show off" to better support the other players. Maddie had eight points in the first few minutes of the game, playing aggressively around the hoop, and she could have kept doing that all game long. But as the game went on the other players did a better job of breaking the zone down and Maddie didn't need to work like that anymore. Maddie's early points weren't part of the game plan. To most of us, it looked like, "Maddie's finally getting aggressive - yay!". Meanwhile, I'm sure the coaches were thinking, "Come on, girls, get in your damn positions so Maddie doesn't have to play like that!" Watching that practice gave me a whole lot more appreciation for those handful of players that we've had make contributions as freshmen. That Katie actually started 10 games at point guard her freshman year is now mind-boggling to me. That Sydney Wiese started at the point her whole freshman year is jaw-dropping. It's hard to overstate just how special those girls are. A couple of things really stand out here. It's been mentioned that playing as a Freshman at Oregon State is tough because there are so many plays, situations, etc, that you are expected to know. Even if you are athletically gifted, if you are thinking instead of reacting, it can make you play slow. The other point in regards to Katie and Syd Wiese. The one thing those two had in common is they are daughters of high school coaches. They have probably had more time looking at the game at a higher level, than most players coming into the program.
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Post by Werebeaver on Dec 11, 2018 21:27:48 GMT -8
PM+JS for ND and So Ca combined total = 4 minutes. About 1 min each/game average. Still not out of line. JS has played more min (63) in less games (6) than PM (38 min/8 games). Point brought up and you disagreed with... weak competition was needed to get frosh minutes. Six of our eight games have been vs weaker teams yet playing time hasn't significantly increased vs any team. Hence, the level of the opponent really hasn't been a determining factor. It's obvious that the staff thinks PM is not ready for more playing time vs any level. Today OSU won by 50+, was in control ever second and PM got 5 late minutes. 5 late minutes is 500% more than 1 late minute. 5 minutes is 1/8 of a game. It’s not insignificant.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 11, 2018 21:45:28 GMT -8
Still not out of line. JS has played more min (63) in less games (6) than PM (38 min/8 games). Point brought up and you disagreed with... weak competition was needed to get frosh minutes. Six of our eight games have been vs weaker teams yet playing time hasn't significantly increased vs any team. Hence, the level of the opponent really hasn't been a determining factor. It's obvious that the staff thinks PM is not ready for more playing time vs any level. Today OSU won by 50+, was in control ever second and PM got 5 late minutes. 5 late minutes is 500% more than 1 late minute. 5 minutes is 1/8 of a game. It’s not insignificant. Lol... in a 50 pt blow out its insignificant. I'll not argue about significance of minutes when the player averages under 5/g. Pretty much tells the story.
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Post by willtalk on Dec 11, 2018 23:02:34 GMT -8
Perhaps the staff feels that playing against lesser ( and shorter ) competition will not do Trish that much good, but rather just reinforce the bad habits she picked up in high school. When you are that much taller than your competition you fall back on that rather than developing skills. The same also applies to being that much more athletic than your high school competition. Trish played in a weak conference and that allowed her to get by with little skill development.
People don't realize how much playing for a top program give players a leg up at the next level. Every high player has an adjustment to make coming to a top college program and the tougher the program they came from the easier it is. In Trish's case its a big learning curve. To much at once can seem over whelming.
One thing I noticed about her in highs chool that she still does is that she does not challenge shooters in front of her. I think this is because of what she was taught early in her career. Being that much taller she was told to just stand with her hands up. She has good lateral movement which is a skill tennis players use in their game constantly. But she needs to increase the space she defends in front of her. That includes jumping when the shooter is not right in front of her. She is not a slow stationary player and needs to learn to take advantage of her quickness to cover space in front of her as well as the sides.
Right now she is not maximize the advantage that her height and mobility gives her. She will not learn to do that playing against the lesser competition. You can tell just by looking at her that the reality of where she is at has finally hit her. This is good because then she knows what she needs to do the get better. But soon in time the light will come on and her advancement should accelerate.
None of what is happening with her surprises me. I have watched a lot of high school players and seen them transition from one level to the other. The good thing with Trish is that she still has a huge untapped ceiling, which would certainly allow her to begin to contribute long before she hits it.
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Post by Werebeaver on Dec 12, 2018 7:52:46 GMT -8
5 late minutes is 500% more than 1 late minute. 5 minutes is 1/8 of a game. It’s not insignificant. Lol... in a 50 pt blow out its insignificant. I'll not argue about significance of minutes when the player averages under 5/g. Pretty much tells the story. The original poster said he wanted OSU to “drop some of these cupcakes” and upgrade the competition. I said our OOC schedule is tough enough and tougher teams just means less PT for the freshmen. The stats to date back that up. Plus, the schedule is what it is, there is no changing it so the OP’s point was a fatuous assertion to begin with.
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Post by lotrader on Dec 12, 2018 9:57:25 GMT -8
There is no point in debating with " baseba1111". This individual seems to believe that whatever he/she professes is the gospel. I'm willing to listen, but I stop listening when there is a position taken that nothing you present can cause me to alter my view. BTW, is there an "ignore" feature on this board?
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Post by jegerklog on Dec 12, 2018 10:03:13 GMT -8
Perhaps the staff feels that playing against lesser ( and shorter ) competition will not do Trish that much good, but rather just reinforce the bad habits she picked up in high school. When you are that much taller than your competition you fall back on that rather than developing skills. The same also applies to being that much more athletic than your high school competition. Trish played in a weak conference and that allowed her to get by with little skill development. People don't realize how much playing for a top program give players a leg up at the next level. Every high player has an adjustment to make coming to a top college program and the tougher the program they came from the easier it is. In Trish's case its a big learning curve. To much at once can seem over whelming. One thing I noticed about her in highs chool that she still does is that she does not challenge shooters in front of her. I think this is because of what she was taught early in her career. Being that much taller she was told to just stand with her hands up. She has good lateral movement which is a skill tennis players use in their game constantly. But she needs to increase the space she defends in front of her. That includes jumping when the shooter is not right in front of her. She is not a slow stationary player and needs to learn to take advantage of her quickness to cover space in front of her as well as the sides. Right now she is not maximize the advantage that her height and mobility gives her. She will not learn to do that playing against the lesser competition. You can tell just by looking at her that the reality of where she is at has finally hit her. This is good because then she knows what she needs to do the get better. But soon in time the light will come on and her advancement should accelerate. None of what is happening with her surprises me. I have watched a lot of high school players and seen them transition from one level to the other. The good thing with Trish is that she still has a huge untapped ceiling, which would certainly allow her to begin to contribute long before she hits it.
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