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Post by 411500 on Oct 10, 2018 9:12:00 GMT -8
thickhead writes: "Bottom line is that we can't shut her down."
Basically, I see this as an accurate statement, and I'm sure Coach R does also.
Great offensive scorers, almost by definition, cannot be shut down. The goal rarely is to totally shut them down.
Rather, against premier scorers the goal usually is to lower their shooting % by forcing lower probability shots, by forcing the shooter to leave her comfort zone for a less comfortable option. To frustrate her to that she runs the Offence less efficiently.
Secondly, the goal when defending true scorers like S.I. is to reduce their efficiency in helping teammates, reduce their assists, reduce open shots created by the drive, etc.
Forcing the leading scorer out of her game in a way that hurts the overall TEAM performance of the opponent is another goal when facing a big time talent like SI.
Sometimes shutting down the big time scorer is not by reducing HER numbers but by reducing the numbers of her teammates.
As an exaggerated example: Sabrina scores 40, but Hebard gets only 8 because the disruption of SI's game thru tight D takes Hebard out of the game flow.
Sometimes you hear a coach say something like this: "OK, I'll give her 30, but I'm gonna shut down the other 4."
That's it....
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Post by beavershoopsfan on Oct 10, 2018 9:14:02 GMT -8
Apparently thickhead is not aware of the fact that missed shots while being fouled are not counted as official shots. If the basket is made on a shot attempt when being fouled, then the shot counts as an official shot. Ionescu missed 16 shots against the Beavs in the first game last season in which she wasn't fouled. Thickhead can look up the rules of official statistics and learn a little bit more about the game of basketball. The post above from thickhead shows some ignorance about the rules of the game. However, that typically doesn't stop thickhead from sharing his negative perceptions about specific players and what he chose to remember about that first OSU-Oregon game last season. That game was an overtime classic in which the Beavs (with Tudor and Gulich leading the way) pulled off a quality win against a Top 10 opponent. There was no claim in my post that "great" defense was played on Ionescu last season. That was thickhead's quote above. I simply try to fill in the gaps when thickhead puts his slants on revisionist history. I try to provide some often-needed balance and allow stats to help tell a more complete story. I noted in my post above that Ionescu's 35 points in the first game came on 27 shots and encouraged the Beavers to attack Ionescu more frequently this season on the offensive end so that she is forced to play on both ends of the court. I was mistaken about counting shot attempts, true. However, probably the majority of the fouls against Ionescu were in her attempts to score and therefore prevented her from getting a shot off. Therefore, if the fouls had not occurred, she likely would have had more made shots, improving her shooting percentage. So her numerous free throw attempts are, to some extent, indicative of fouls that are pulling down her field goal percentage. Bottom line is that we can't shut her down. That is NOT a "negative perception about specific players". It's a simple fact that our players can't effectively keep her down. If I said player "B" should guard Ionescu because player "A" can't do it effectively, then you would presumably berate me for mentioning "A" by name because that indicates a negative view of her. I think you are being far too limiting in what you would allow to be discussed about our players' relative skills and limitations. Should we pretend that we're living in Lake Wobegon, where "all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average"? Being fouled during a shot attempt does not "pull down" a player's field goal percentage. Period. That is a fact. Being fouled in the act of shooting can only increase a player's shooting percentage in the event that the basket is made. Trying to explain away ignorance with another ignorant statement is simply.... ignorant. However, I was encouraged in the post above just a bit by the admission by thickhead of him being mistaken. Yes. I will be protective of players on this board when I sense that a poster is being unfair and/or is missing part of the full story based upon his/her biases. Similar to when thickhead commented about the weight of a current OSU player on this forum within the past two months, I will consistently attempt to add some additional perspective via a post when thickhead may overstate an opinion that I disagree with. To his credit, thickhead apologized for that post and asked that the weight-related post be removed when I quoted him in my post. I did so that his weight-related quote was removed. However, he doesn't stop with his strong assertions about a number of OSU players' weaknesses. As a result, thickhead can continue to expect some push back from me when he makes clear basketball knowledge-related errors in this forum. I will expect the same from him when I make errors. You can bet that any future errors that I may make won't be related to taking anonymous shots about OSU players or any opposing players. |
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Post by beavs6 on Oct 10, 2018 9:54:09 GMT -8
thickhead writes: "Bottom line is that we can't shut her down." Basically, I see this as an accurate statement, and I'm sure Coach R does also. Great offensive scorers, almost by definition, cannot be shut down. The goal rarely is to totally shut them down. Rather, against premier scorers the goal usually is to lower their shooting % by forcing lower probability shots, by forcing the shooter to leave her comfort zone for a less comfortable option. To frustrate her to that she runs the Offence less efficiently. Secondly, the goal when defending true scorers like S.I. is to reduce their efficiency in helping teammates, reduce their assists, reduce open shots created by the drive, etc. Forcing the leading scorer out of her game in a way that hurts the overall TEAM performance of the opponent is another goal when facing a big time talent like SI. Sometimes shutting down the big time scorer is not by reducing HER numbers but by reducing the numbers of her teammates. As an exaggerated example: Sabrina scores 40, but Hebard gets only 8 because the disruption of SI's game thru tight D takes Hebard out of the game flow. Sometimes you hear a coach say something like this: "OK, I'll give her 30, but I'm gonna shut down the other 4." That's it.... In addition...how about making a scorer work harder than usual...both on the "O" end of the floor to get shots early and on the "D"end too. The thought is a scorer may still get theirs early, but over the course of the game...as the legs tire and weaken, MAYBE those shots don't fall late in the game. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Oct 10, 2018 11:13:29 GMT -8
I was mistaken about counting shot attempts, true. However, probably the majority of the fouls against Ionescu were in her attempts to score and therefore prevented her from getting a shot off. Therefore, if the fouls had not occurred, she likely would have had more made shots, improving her shooting percentage. So her numerous free throw attempts are, to some extent, indicative of fouls that are pulling down her field goal percentage. Bottom line is that we can't shut her down. That is NOT a "negative perception about specific players". It's a simple fact that our players can't effectively keep her down. If I said player "B" should guard Ionescu because player "A" can't do it effectively, then you would presumably berate me for mentioning "A" by name because that indicates a negative view of her. I think you are being far too limiting in what you would allow to be discussed about our players' relative skills and limitations. Should we pretend that we're living in Lake Wobegon, where "all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average"? Being fouled during a shot attempt does not "pull down" a player's field goal percentage. Period. That is a fact. Being fouled in the act of shooting can only increase a player's shooting percentage in the event that the basket is made. Trying to explain away ignorance with another ignorant statement is simply.... ignorant. However, I was encouraged in the post above just a bit by the admission by thickhead of him being mistaken. Yes. I will be protective of players on this board when I sense that a poster is being unfair and/or is missing part of the full story based upon his/her biases. Similar to when thickhead commented about the weight of a current OSU player on this forum within the past two months, I will consistently attempt to add some additional perspective via a post when thickhead may overstate an opinion that I disagree with. To his credit, thickhead apologized for that post and asked that the weight-related post be removed when I quoted him in my post. I did so that his weight-related quote was removed. However, he doesn't stop with his strong assertions about a number of OSU players' weaknesses. As a result, thickhead can continue to expect some push back from me when he makes clear basketball knowledge-related errors in this forum. I will expect the same from him when I make errors. You can bet that any future errors that I may make won't be related to taking anonymous shots about OSU players or any opposing players. On every board certain posters enjoy being provocative. It’s to be expected. |
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Post by beavadelic on Oct 10, 2018 12:48:59 GMT -8
I am so pumped to have her on this team. By every account, she is a special talent and an incredible young woman. I can’t wait to watch this team. |
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