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Post by obf on May 8, 2024 9:30:47 GMT -8
All of the college rankings are pretty much paid for BS marketing, or old boys club memberships or Ivy league snobs desperately protecting their Ivory towers. I especially liked Malcom Gladwell's expose, dismantling the ruse and hypocrisy of the US News and Reports Rankings: www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/revisionist-history/lord-of-the-rankings |
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Post by irimi on May 8, 2024 17:13:15 GMT -8
I wouldn't say OSU isn't a fit with the Big Ten in athletics so much as OSU doesn't bring enough brand power and earning potential in the eyes of the Big Ten. And with UO and UW joining, the Pacific Northwest footprint is taken. I doubt that AAU membership would change that or how other conferences view OSU. But there are schools in the Big Ten that are similar or lower than us in brand power. Not sure about the earnings though because I don’t look into it. |
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caladin
Freshman
CWS Baby!
Posts: 94 
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Post by caladin on May 8, 2024 18:34:01 GMT -8
I will submit that while OSU does not have a medical school it does have a fantastic Vet school and Pharmacy school.
What may put us behind more than anything is the lack of a Law School. Lawyers rule political battles. A lot of OSU grads have had to get their JD and Oregon because it was the only financially prudent choice. I wonder what it would take to spin up a law school? Probably a lot less than a medical school.
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Post by bennyskid on May 8, 2024 18:35:36 GMT -8
I wouldn't say OSU isn't a fit with the Big Ten in athletics so much as OSU doesn't bring enough brand power and earning potential in the eyes of the Big Ten. And with UO and UW joining, the Pacific Northwest footprint is taken. I doubt that AAU membership would change that or how other conferences view OSU. But there are schools in the Big Ten that are similar or lower than us in brand power. Not sure about the earnings though because I don’t look into it. It's not enough to be better than the *worst* in the B10. They won't kick out Northwestern to get OSU. We have to be bring more to the conference than the *mean* (not even the median, but the mean) before it's worth their while to invite us.
We're not even close.
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Post by irimi on May 9, 2024 5:30:48 GMT -8
But there are schools in the Big Ten that are similar or lower than us in brand power. Not sure about the earnings though because I don’t look into it. It's not enough to be better than the *worst* in the B10. They won't kick out Northwestern to get OSU. We have to be bring more to the conference than the *mean* (not even the median, but the mean) before it's worth their while to invite us.
We're not even close.
Who did they kick out to take in Hole, UW, USC, and UCLA? At least that point doesn’t make sense. Pick any team in the Western division and we match up pretty well. It is the Eastern division which dominates Big Ten talk year in and year out. And really it all depends on how the Big Ten sees its future. Will they pare down the bottom rung schools or bring in more? We aren’t done yet; that’s about the only thing we can guarantee about this whole fiasco. |
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Post by bvrbred on May 9, 2024 5:55:16 GMT -8
I will submit that while OSU does not have a medical school it does have a fantastic Vet school and Pharmacy school. What may put us behind more than anything is the lack of a Law School. Lawyers rule political battles. A lot of OSU grads have had to get their JD and Oregon because it was the only financially prudent choice. I wonder what it would take to spin up a law school? Probably a lot less than a medical school. There are already law schools in Portland, Salem, and Eugene. Corvallis doesn't need one and Oregon State would have a hard time selling it to the legislature. Oregon State should have taken advantage of the opportunity to grab the old Northwestern School of Law in Portland when the latter was on the verge of going under. Would have given OSU a stronger toehold in Portland and possibly could have developed an MBA program alongside it. As it happened, Lewis & Clark took it on and its now probably the best known program there. |
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Post by spudbeaver on May 9, 2024 6:27:51 GMT -8
I wouldn't say OSU isn't a fit with the Big Ten in athletics so much as OSU doesn't bring enough brand power and earning potential in the eyes of the Big Ten. And with UO and UW joining, the Pacific Northwest footprint is taken. I doubt that AAU membership would change that or how other conferences view OSU. Like Maryland? |
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Post by bennyskid on May 9, 2024 7:33:40 GMT -8
It's not enough to be better than the *worst* in the B10. They won't kick out Northwestern to get OSU. We have to be bring more to the conference than the *mean* (not even the median, but the mean) before it's worth their while to invite us.
We're not even close.
Who did they kick out to take in Hole, UW, USC, and UCLA? At least that point doesn’t make sense. Pick any team in the Western division and we match up pretty well. It is the Eastern division which dominates Big Ten talk year in and year out. And really it all depends on how the Big Ten sees its future. Will they pare down the bottom rung schools or bring in more? We aren’t done yet; that’s about the only thing we can guarantee about this whole fiasco.
UO, UW, USC and UCLA all have more revenue-enhancing potential than the mean B10 school. So they are in.
OSU does not. It is irrelevant whether we match up "pretty well" with any particular school in revenue-generating potential. What matters is "How much MORE will ESPN pay in the next contract if we add this school?", and then "How much LESS will every other school get because we have to divide the spoils with one more school."
To make the math easy, let's say there were actually 10 schools in the B10 and they had a $500m contract with ESPN. Each school gets $50m. We'll imagine that ESPN is valuing that contract on the premise that Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan are worth something like $100m each, Michigan State, Nebraska and Wisconsin maybe $40m, and the other four $20 million.
For the B10 to be interested in OSU, it isn't enough for ESPN to value us more than Indiana. If we were worth $30m, then the Big11 would get a $530m contract, divided by 11 is $48.2 million. So everyone loses $1.8m.
It isn't even enough to be on par with the middle schools. At $40m, the becomes $540m/11 = $49.1 million. Still a loss. OSU has to be above the MEAN value of $50m, well above the median value.
USC, UCLA, UO and UW appear to have met that requirement. We haven't, and likely never will. No P4 conference is going to add us just as part of its incremental growth. We only get into a P4 conference if there is a major restructuring.
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Post by obf on May 9, 2024 8:57:18 GMT -8
Why are we even talking about the B1G? The only conference I would hope to get into would be the Big12, and they are the only ones to even have hints or rumors to be interested. Going to the B1G would be 1 step forward two steps back. We would just be a cupcake for the big boys. In the Big 12 we could actually hope to compete.
UofHo and the fuskies and fucla will regret going to the B1G, they will end up cupcakes as well.
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Post by rgeorge on May 9, 2024 9:36:37 GMT -8
Why are we even talking about the B1G? The only conference I would hope to get into would be the Big12, and they are the only ones to even have hints or rumors to be interested. Going to the B1G would be 1 step forward two steps back. We would just be a cupcake for the big boys. In the Big 12 we could actually hope to compete. UofHo and the fuskies and fucla will regret going to the B1G, they will end up cupcakes as well. "regret" & "cupcakes"... I guess it all depends on your definition?! Athletes may hate the travel, but the Admins will have zero regret getting more $, UCLA and SC a LOT more. Nor will they regret the exposure and being in the P4 click that will soon move to a "pay to play" super conference. As far as cupcakes, I'm not sure any of the (4) will ever be that in most key sports in a conference with Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisky, Purdue, NW, MSU, Iowa. Take your pick and look at the overall successes of the complete athletic programs. Each B10 school has their strengths, but in the "money makers" there is plenty of room for the traitors to excel. In football, Oregon will immediately move past Penn State into the 3rd rung, maybe #2 depending on what happens at Michigan with no Harbaugh. Oregon's baseball team moves to the #1 spot in that weak league, Softball will similarly be very near the top along with UW's softball team. SC will be in that same top tier in football, and be one of the top, if not the top, team in WBB, and compete nicely in MBB. Depending on the schedule each year UCLA will be fine versus many of the B10 football teams and always be competitive with Cronin coaching MBB, and dominate in many of the Olympic sports. UW is another story completely... but they needed the sure $ even if only a partial share and their arrogance overrides any form of regret. Who knows how Fisch does, but they will probably be similar to UCLA and do just fine versus most of the B10. But, they will struggle in most of the major sports. Hard to see these (4) being "cupcakes" on any regular basis in a conference already full of cupcakes. |
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Post by Judge Smails on May 9, 2024 9:42:17 GMT -8
Why are we even talking about the B1G? The only conference I would hope to get into would be the Big12, and they are the only ones to even have hints or rumors to be interested. Going to the B1G would be 1 step forward two steps back. We would just be a cupcake for the big boys. In the Big 12 we could actually hope to compete. UofHo and the fuskies and fucla will regret going to the B1G, they will end up cupcakes as well. "regret" & "cupcakes"... I guess it all depends on your definition?! Athletes may hate the travel, but the Admins will have zero regret getting more $, UCLA and SC a LOT more. Nor will they regret the exposure and being in the P4 click that will soon move to a "pay to play" super conference. As far as cupcakes, I'm not sure any of the (4) will ever be that in most key sports in a conference with Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisky, Purdue, NW, MSU, Iowa. Take your pick and look at the overall successes of the complete athletic programs. Each B10 school has their strengths, but in the "money makers" there is plenty of room for the traitors to excel. In football, Oregon will immediately move past Penn State into the 3rd rung, maybe #2 depending on what happens at Michigan with no Harbaugh. Oregon's baseball team moves to the #1 spot in that weak league, Softball will similarly be very near the top along with UW's softball team. SC will be in that same top tier in football, and be one of the top, if not the top, team in WBB, and compete nicely in MBB. Depending on the schedule each year UCLA will be fine versus many of the B10 football teams and always be competitive with Cronin coaching MBB, and dominate in many of the Olympic sports. UW is another story completely... but they needed the sure $ even if only a partial share and their arrogance overrides any form of regret. Who knows how Fisch does, but they will probably be similar to UCLA and do just fine versus most of the B10. But, they will struggle in most of the major sports. Hard to see these (4) being "cupcakes" on any regular basis in a conference already full of cupcakes. I think UCLA will struggle in football. They will be fine in the other sports. UW has more $$ for football and I think they will do fine. |
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Post by rgeorge on May 9, 2024 9:53:34 GMT -8
"regret" & "cupcakes"... I guess it all depends on your definition?! Athletes may hate the travel, but the Admins will have zero regret getting more $, UCLA and SC a LOT more. Nor will they regret the exposure and being in the P4 click that will soon move to a "pay to play" super conference. As far as cupcakes, I'm not sure any of the (4) will ever be that in most key sports in a conference with Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisky, Purdue, NW, MSU, Iowa. Take your pick and look at the overall successes of the complete athletic programs. Each B10 school has their strengths, but in the "money makers" there is plenty of room for the traitors to excel. In football, Oregon will immediately move past Penn State into the 3rd rung, maybe #2 depending on what happens at Michigan with no Harbaugh. Oregon's baseball team moves to the #1 spot in that weak league, Softball will similarly be very near the top along with UW's softball team. SC will be in that same top tier in football, and be one of the top, if not the top, team in WBB, and compete nicely in MBB. Depending on the schedule each year UCLA will be fine versus many of the B10 football teams and always be competitive with Cronin coaching MBB, and dominate in many of the Olympic sports. UW is another story completely... but they needed the sure $ even if only a partial share and their arrogance overrides any form of regret. Who knows how Fisch does, but they will probably be similar to UCLA and do just fine versus most of the B10. But, they will struggle in most of the major sports. Hard to see these (4) being "cupcakes" on any regular basis in a conference already full of cupcakes. I think UCLA will struggle in football. They will be fine in the other sports. UW has more $$ for football and I think they will do fine. UCLA will be highly dependent on their draw... but, they'll always hover around .500, which isn't what UCLA wants, but the money is the most important factor to them right now. And, the B10 affiliation will draw them a much better coaching hire next round. This year: @ Hawaii, vs Indiana, @ LSU, vs Oregon, @ PSU, vs Minny, @ Rutgers, @ Nebby, vs Iowa, @ UW, vs USC, vs Fresno I can see 6-8 wins even with a 2-3 start, and missing UM and tOSU with (4) in a row on the West Coast to ends the season is pretty nice. |
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Post by Judge Smails on May 9, 2024 10:08:07 GMT -8
I think UCLA will struggle in football. They will be fine in the other sports. UW has more $$ for football and I think they will do fine. UCLA will be highly dependent on their draw... but, they'll always hover around .500, which isn't what UCLA wants, but the money is the most important factor to them right now. And, the B10 affiliation will draw them a much better coaching hire next round. This year: @ Hawaii, vs Indiana, @ LSU, vs Oregon, @ PSU, vs Minny, @ Rutgers, @ Nebby, vs Iowa, @ UW, vs USC, vs Fresno I can see 6-8 wins even with a 2-3 start, and missing UM and tOSU with (4) in a row on the West Coast to ends the season is pretty nice. They just don't seem to care enough right now about football. Deshaun Foster is not exactly a splashy hire. We'll see if they decide to invest more into their FB program. There's a reason Chipper left...... |
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Post by rgeorge on May 9, 2024 10:13:36 GMT -8
UCLA will be highly dependent on their draw... but, they'll always hover around .500, which isn't what UCLA wants, but the money is the most important factor to them right now. And, the B10 affiliation will draw them a much better coaching hire next round. This year: @ Hawaii, vs Indiana, @ LSU, vs Oregon, @ PSU, vs Minny, @ Rutgers, @ Nebby, vs Iowa, @ UW, vs USC, vs Fresno I can see 6-8 wins even with a 2-3 start, and missing UM and tOSU with (4) in a row on the West Coast to ends the season is pretty nice. They just don't seem to care enough right now about football. Deshaun Foster is not exactly a splashy hire. We'll see if they decide to invest more into their FB program. There's a reason Chipper left...... True... but I guess my initial point is that UCLA is far from a "cupcake" in the B10's overall athletic picture. And, no matter their current level of investment in FB, they get the same amount of $$ and will never be Rutgers or Maryland, or the current version of NW. Former competitors/colleagues/UCLA grads have assured me the current hire was like an "interim" fix at over a 50% savings (+ no buyout) until the AD budget settles down. We'll see?? |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,743
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on May 9, 2024 11:50:03 GMT -8
They just don't seem to care enough right now about football. Deshaun Foster is not exactly a splashy hire. We'll see if they decide to invest more into their FB program. There's a reason Chipper left...... True... but I guess my initial point is that UCLA is far from a "cupcake" in the B10's overall athletic picture. And, no matter their current level of investment in FB, they get the same amount of $$ and will never be Rutgers or Maryland, or the current version of NW.Former competitors/colleagues/UCLA grads have assured me the current hire was like an "interim" fix at over a 50% savings (+ no buyout) until the AD budget settles down. We'll see?? I don't really follow Northwestern sports, but since my son moved to Evanston recently, my interest has increased..... I will note they have been to 6 Bowl games in the last 9 years, and thanks to a $480 million dollar donation (that capped off a $6.1B fundraising campaign) from the Ryan family they are renovating Ryan Stadium as we speak. I posit NW is actually ahead of UCLA by several measures (which might have been your point)..... Go Beavers! |
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