|
|
Post by nuclearbeaver on Apr 13, 2024 7:26:48 GMT -8
Since OSU will never compete in NIL and we have seen the best players leave despite impressive deals (for normies) is it time to money ball this? We have always done more with less so maybe it's time to spread the NIL to more players in smaller amounts to generate loyalty and appreciation before someone makes it big. Players will only stay with us if they are happy and their moral compass points to Corvallis. So should we avoid paying out huge sums for a single player or maybe give donations back to all players in some kind of tier system. Football is a team sport, I guarantee Dame isn't a top tier back without a great OLine.
Since NIL is paid in quarters and advertisement/benefits from companies are individual contracts I'd like to see something smarter. Stars are going to leave or get thos corporate deals, they are fine. To even things out with donations why not make a tier system where everyone who makes the team gets a base amount, 3rd string set amount, blah blah blah. It would make it predictable so they don't have to hound us constantly, players would know what gets what, and it's going to create some good will for those players that work their ass off.
It can be based on starts at each string per season and pay out through the rest of the year. I'm sure some clever bean counter can figure out how to deal with seniors so it's fairish.
It just feels dumb to give ve Dame 400k and he leaves when you could give every OL and DL 40k.
Hell of they university wants more loyalty you can base payouts on years in the program. Or a mixed bag of years and achievement. There's going to be smiles and sour grapes no matter but when it's my donations I'm giving it to the team not the best player. You put the best player on the field vs 11 D3 players they are still going to get smoked.
|
|
|
|
Post by flyfishinbeav on Apr 13, 2024 7:36:33 GMT -8
I'm down with this.
Gotta be smart with our limited funds. We already know when guys have breakout years they will be poached by the greedy f%#*s.
If we can build a solid foundation with O line/D line and give em perks to stick around, we develop the skill positions, replace them as they get poached.
|
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Apr 13, 2024 7:42:26 GMT -8
nuclearbeaver,
Outstanding thinking and analysis. OSU needs"out of the box" thinking and pro-active behavior from the top (President, board of trustees, Athletic director).
Why not "go for it" with innovative ideas, a new west coast geographical conference, etc. What the hell do we have to lose that we haven't already lost. Also the fall back worst scenario will be the Mountain West Conference which will happen anyway if we do nothing.
Go Beavs!
|
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 13, 2024 8:00:31 GMT -8
40k to every lineman would probably turn into 40k to every scholarship player fairly quickly so nobody feels slighted... suddenly your NIL budget STARTS at 3.5 million bucks.
I've no idea what's out there for OSU, but it sure sounds like a lot.
|
|
|
|
Post by nuclearbeaver on Apr 13, 2024 8:03:52 GMT -8
40k to every lineman would probably turn into 40k to every scholarship player fairly quickly so nobody feels slighted... suddenly your NIL budget STARTS at 3.5 million bucks. Accountants would have to come up with a scheme that works. All I'm saying is dumping huge amounts of our resources into a single player is not going to work. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 13, 2024 8:06:41 GMT -8
40k to every lineman would probably turn into 40k to every scholarship player fairly quickly so nobody feels slighted... suddenly your NIL budget STARTS at 3.5 million bucks. Accountants would have to come up with a scheme that works. All I'm saying is dumping huge amounts of our resources into a single player is not going to work. I actually like the idea, it's just the pile of money required that might get in the way. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Apr 13, 2024 8:16:32 GMT -8
"Moneyball" was finding unrecognized value in players, attributes other teams either didn't see or value, or not paying an inflated price for a skillset (Johnny Damon) that could be replaced for much less money. "Moneyball" in this case would be spreading about $150 or $200k out among 3,4 or 5 RBs, whose cumulative production would be superior to Martinez's for about half the price.
Unless you have a simply outstanding, generational RB - we've had one, Steven Jackson, in my 40 years of OSU fandom - it's pretty much a plug-and-play position. Some obviously are better than others (Quizz was the best of the rest), but it's proven to be a pretty easy position for us to fill when the incumbent has departed.
Martinez was good. I wish he's stayed. But we won a Civil War and Vegas Bowl in 2022 with him making minimal contributions in both games. He's replaceable.
|
|
|
|
Post by nuclearbeaver on Apr 13, 2024 8:27:01 GMT -8
Accountants would have to come up with a scheme that works. All I'm saying is dumping huge amounts of our resources into a single player is not going to work. I actually like the idea, it's just the pile of money required that might get in the way. For sure. I don't think a purely equal system would work. It needs a mix of achievement, tenure and outside advertising contracts for top players. Football would need about 2 million to average out the scholarship athletes to 20k a year from private donations. Obviously all the advertising/promotion opportunities are icing based on a players popularity. Other sports would have to have different schemes. It would be nice if the collective was keeping track of what sport people are donating for and creating budgets for sports by that number. While baseball does not make revenue by traditional means it very well could bring in serious income from NIL donations with a long string of successful seasons. Same goes for women's basketball having a run this year. The collective got atleast 2 million at the end of this season when Smith left. |
|
|
|
Post by nuclearbeaver on Apr 13, 2024 8:33:14 GMT -8
"Moneyball" was finding unrecognized value in players, attributes other teams either didn't see or value, or not paying an inflated price for a skillset (Johnny Damon) that could be replaced for much less money. "Moneyball" in this case would be spreading about $150 or $200k out among 3,4 or 5 RBs, whose cumulative production would be superior to Martinez's for about half the price. Unless you have a simply outstanding, generational RB - we've had one, Steven Jackson, in my 40 years of OSU fandom - it's pretty much a plug-and-play position. Some obviously are better than others (Quizz was the best of the rest), but it's proven to be a pretty easy position for us to fill when the incumbent has departed. Martinez was good. I wish he's stayed. But we won a Civil War and Vegas Bowl in 2022 with him making minimal contributions in both games. He's replaceable. Chill Skrim. Money Ball is used all the time outside the specific scope of Bill James idea. It's used frequently for doing more with less and how to invest resources collectively instead of on a single bet. Recruiting is a risk and if you add NIL it's just taking all the risk so other teams can keep the reward using their money bags. The aspect of this to embrace is distributing the resources so we can attract talent at positions that other schools are overlooking. It's a lot easier to make a high 3 star DB happy with 10k than a 5 star QB with 400k. If we keep chasing the most expensive positions we will lose. |
|
|
|
Post by spudbeaver on Apr 13, 2024 8:37:39 GMT -8
This is a great topic. It also falls into my thinking that over time resentment will grow toward the superstar getting paid. When that happens it doesn’t matter how good one player is, it’s game over. I’m interested to watch the big payout programs and see if this happens to any degree. Nuke’s philosophy eliminates this possibility.
|
|
|
|
Post by bvrbred on Apr 13, 2024 9:03:38 GMT -8
"Moneyball" was finding unrecognized value in players, attributes other teams either didn't see or value, or not paying an inflated price for a skillset (Johnny Damon) that could be replaced for much less money. "Moneyball" in this case would be spreading about $150 or $200k out among 3,4 or 5 RBs, whose cumulative production would be superior to Martinez's for about half the price. Unless you have a simply outstanding, generational RB - we've had one, Steven Jackson, in my 40 years of OSU fandom - it's pretty much a plug-and-play position. Some obviously are better than others (Quizz was the best of the rest), but it's proven to be a pretty easy position for us to fill when the incumbent has departed. Martinez was good. I wish he's stayed. But we won a Civil War and Vegas Bowl in 2022 with him making minimal contributions in both games. He's replaceable. The current RB coach, in his interview the other day, said the "feature back," system-- example, the way Riley used running backs--is fading out in college ball and we are likely to see more and more rotation in the future. So, the "Money ball," idea could work with 3 star RB recruits. How many RB recruits have we had since Quizz who were 4 stars anyway? Nobody expected any of the group of Jefferson, Pierce, Baylor, Griffin, Fenwick, Martinez to be superstars. All of them were very productive. I think the worst ypc that any of them had was something like 4.8. If one of the group emerges as a superstar we let him go. We keep paying the Fenwicks and Griffins who are getting 500-800 yds/season and 5.5 yds/carry. Not sure how money ball would work with a position like QB. We have struggled to get even one good guy. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Apr 13, 2024 9:06:13 GMT -8
"Moneyball" was finding unrecognized value in players, attributes other teams either didn't see or value, or not paying an inflated price for a skillset (Johnny Damon) that could be replaced for much less money. "Moneyball" in this case would be spreading about $150 or $200k out among 3,4 or 5 RBs, whose cumulative production would be superior to Martinez's for about half the price. Unless you have a simply outstanding, generational RB - we've had one, Steven Jackson, in my 40 years of OSU fandom - it's pretty much a plug-and-play position. Some obviously are better than others (Quizz was the best of the rest), but it's proven to be a pretty easy position for us to fill when the incumbent has departed. Martinez was good. I wish he's stayed. But we won a Civil War and Vegas Bowl in 2022 with him making minimal contributions in both games. He's replaceable. Chill Skrim. Money Ball is used all the time outside the specific scope of Bill James idea. It's used frequently for doing more with less and how to invest resources collectively instead of on a single bet. Recruiting is a risk and if you add NIL it's just taking all the risk so other teams can keep the reward using their money bags. The aspect of this to embrace is distributing the resources so we can attract talent at positions that other schools are overlooking. It's a lot easier to make a high 3 star DB happy with 10k than a 5 star QB with 400k. If we keep chasing the most expensive positions we will lose. I'm very chill. I also clearly understand the "Moneyball" concept. "Doing more with less and how to invest resources collectively instead of on a single bet" is exactly what I advocated by suggesting we pay 3-4 or 5 guys half the money for equal or more production. |
|
|
|
Post by nuclearbeaver on Apr 13, 2024 9:09:36 GMT -8
Chill Skrim. Money Ball is used all the time outside the specific scope of Bill James idea. It's used frequently for doing more with less and how to invest resources collectively instead of on a single bet. Recruiting is a risk and if you add NIL it's just taking all the risk so other teams can keep the reward using their money bags. The aspect of this to embrace is distributing the resources so we can attract talent at positions that other schools are overlooking. It's a lot easier to make a high 3 star DB happy with 10k than a 5 star QB with 400k. If we keep chasing the most expensive positions we will lose. I'm very chill. I also clearly understand the "Moneyball" concept. "Doing more with less and how to invest resources collectively instead of on a single bet" is exactly what I advocated by suggesting we pay 3-4 or 5 guys half the money for equal or more production. Cool. Your post just came off as mansplaining moneyball to the person that posted about it lol |
|
|
|
Post by orangeattack on Apr 16, 2024 7:09:37 GMT -8
The University of Texas has an entire NIL collective effort through "Horns with Heart" that pays $50k to every offensive lineman. Not starting, every. The Pancake Factory
Next level thinking. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 16, 2024 9:03:27 GMT -8
The University of Texas has an entire NIL collective effort through "Horns with Heart" that pays $50k to every offensive lineman. Not starting, every. The Pancake Factory
Next level thinking. If Corvallis' metro was 25X larger like Austin's is, and Oregon's population was 8X larger like Texas' is, there might be a chance there'd be enough businesses and wealthy individuals to support a NIL program of that scope. It'd still be tough to create as rabid a football following as the South has. Unfortunately, next level thinking here would probably be limited to the starters, if even that. |
|
