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Post by mbabeav on Apr 9, 2018 12:11:38 GMT -8
I guess it all depends on what you mean by having the offense "revolve" around one player. The 76-77 Blazers revolved around Bill Walton - but if he scored more than 25, it usually meant that they had lost - his ability to pass through and around the double team (he was a damned good guard before he went from 6' 1" to 6' 11") meant that he was a great assist machine. Then there is Lebron vs the rest of his team. The world revolves around Lebron, and he is good enough that his team mates (and coaches) have to suck it up or leave, but there are a lot of great players who want a shot at the title and will come to play his basketball to get there.
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Post by Werebeaver on Apr 9, 2018 14:51:18 GMT -8
I guess it all depends on what you mean by having the offense "revolve" around one player. The 76-77 Blazers revolved around Bill Walton - but if he scored more than 25, it usually meant that they had lost - his ability to pass through and around the double team (he was a damned good guard before he went from 6' 1" to 6' 11") meant that he was a great assist machine. Then there is Lebron vs the rest of his team. The world revolves around Lebron, and he is good enough that his team mates (and coaches) have to suck it up or leave, but there are a lot of great players who want a shot at the title and will come to play his basketball to get there. I always thought the '77 Blazers revolved around Wally Walker. |
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Post by 411500 on Apr 10, 2018 7:45:45 GMT -8
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Post by ag87 on Apr 10, 2018 21:17:35 GMT -8
I guess it all depends on what you mean by having the offense "revolve" around one player. The 76-77 Blazers revolved around Bill Walton - but if he scored more than 25, it usually meant that they had lost - his ability to pass through and around the double team (he was a damned good guard before he went from 6' 1" to 6' 11") meant that he was a great assist machine. Then there is Lebron vs the rest of his team. The world revolves around Lebron, and he is good enough that his team mates (and coaches) have to suck it up or leave, but there are a lot of great players who want a shot at the title and will come to play his basketball to get there. I always thought the '77 Blazers revolved around Wally Walker. Who? |
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Post by beavershoopsfan on Apr 11, 2018 7:29:54 GMT -8
The latest list (see link below) of Division 1 women's basketball prospective transfers lists 13 new names, increasing the total to have been released from their previous schools to 130. Of the latest 13 additions to the list, seven are from Power 5 conferences. Interestingly, only one Oregon player (Sierra Campisano) is currently on this list of 130. Credible sources continue to report that as many as four additional Oregon freshmen and sophomores (two from both of those classes) may soon be officially released and on the recruiting market. wbbblog.com/2018/04/05/womens-basketball-transfers-spring-summer-2018/ |
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Post by newduke2 on Apr 11, 2018 10:53:54 GMT -8
Folks on GoDucks.com speculate that besides Campisano, Anneli Maley may be leaving too. Maley may be one of two freshman Oregon players referred to.
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Post by 411500 on Apr 11, 2018 12:32:21 GMT -8
Re: Oregon transfers. A few comments....
Oregon has as 7 players who return for next season who are as good as any 7 in the country. Perhaps they are the best 7 in the country.
Ionescu, Sabally, Cazorla, Boley (transfer from Notre Dame), Hebard, McGwire and Gildon all return - and they will gobble virtually all of the 200 minutes playing time per game.
Campisano has indicated she is ready to move along. That leaves the two players from Australia (Yeager & Maley) watching from the bench. Along with Aina Ayuso from Spain.
Sitting an extra year might not improve any of their chances for future playing time because both of the incoming recruits are top notch: Taylor Chavez from Arizona and Nyara Sabally from Germany.
So, if playing time is the major factor in transferring (and it may not be) - look for Yeager, Maley, and Ayuso to be the likely prospects....
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Post by Werebeaver on Apr 11, 2018 13:00:50 GMT -8
Re: Oregon transfers. A few comments.... Oregon has as 7 players who return for next season who are as good as any 7 in the country. Perhaps they are the best 7 in the country. Ionescu, Sabally, Cazorla, Boley (transfer from Notre Dame), Hebard, McGwire and Gildon all return - and they will gobble virtually all of the 200 minutes playing time per game. Campisano has indicated she is ready to move along. That leaves the two players from Australia (Yeager & Maley) watching from the bench. Along with Aina Ayuso from Spain. Sitting an extra year might not improve any of their chances for future playing time because both of the incoming recruits are top notch: Taylor Chavez from Arizona and Nyara Sabally from Germany. So, if playing time is the major factor in transferring (and it may not be) - look for Yeager, Maley, and Ayuso to be the likely prospects.... Gildon and McGwire are competent but will never be all-conference caliber players. I don’t think either would find much PT in OSU’s rotation |
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Post by beavershoopsfan on Apr 11, 2018 14:50:23 GMT -8
McGwire has played well against OSU during her first two seasons in Oregon, especially the second game (14 points on 7/9 shooting from the field) this past season in Eugene. She has a solid shooting touch for a 6'5" center that extends out to about 17' with some consistency if left unguarded. McGwire has shot 51% or greater from the field in both of her collegiate seasons. Her playing time went down slightly to 15.6 minutes per game (from 16.5 as a frosh) this past season as did her production (7.3/4.2 points/rebounds as a frosh to 4.9/3.5 as a sophomore).
With 6'2" Erin Boley becoming eligible in '18-'19 along with Satou Sabally's sister at the 3 and 4 positions, I would think that McGwire might be weighing her options as to other programs for her final two years of competition. McGwire played with Kat Tudor on that national championship Cal Stars Nike Elite EYBL team in 2015 and remains friends with the Tudor family based on Twitter observations.
Gildon will likely remain for her senior season at Oregon. McGwire will have other schools as suitors if she tests the transfer waters.
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Post by mbabeav on Apr 11, 2018 15:24:40 GMT -8
I always thought the '77 Blazers revolved around Wally Walker. Bobby Gross. I will have to say that without Gross's constant motion, the Blazers would never have been the team they turned out to be. And to think they almost lost him. He wanted something like $100,000 a year, which the Blazers were willing to pay, but he also wanted them to pay $10,000 a year for membership at a country club, which they were not willing to cover. At least not until Walton stepped up (my memory) and said something to the effect of "sign him, or you are going to have an unhappy star center." |
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Post by beavershoopsfan on Apr 11, 2018 15:41:34 GMT -8
WSU grad transfer Nike McClure signs to play her final season with New Mexico.
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Post by newduke2 on Apr 11, 2018 20:33:08 GMT -8
Some speculation on the net about the possibility that Promise Taylor (given immediate release by Ole Miss due to coaching change...6'5" FR center from Issaquah, WA) might have an interest in Oregon State. Apparently OSU was high on her list before she picked Ole Miss.
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Post by beavershoopsfan on Apr 12, 2018 7:29:33 GMT -8
As newduke2's research above accurately predicted, Oregon's Anneli Maley has left that program. Two Duck transfers/departures are now official. One frosh and one soph (Campisano) are the departures to date. Three more are rumored to be in the works.
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Post by willtalk on Apr 13, 2018 10:56:38 GMT -8
I disagree with the poster that stated willtalk speaks negatively about the OSU Team on other boards. I find willtalk's discourse refreshing, and, seems to speak truth (sometimes truth hurts). willtalk has spoken mostly positively about the OSU Program, and, it seems to me, he is wanting OSU to maximize their potential. To say the OSU offense wasn't built around Sydney Wiese is patently false. And it is true, that if Sydney Wiese went cold, the Beavers struggled. Not only that, but OSU was far too dependent on Sydney to control the ball at point, and, all it took was for a solid defensive team to double Sydney, and OSU's offense was disabled. In the end, Sydney Wiese was fantastic, but OSU's dependence on Sydney cost us the earlier development of other offensive weapons. I don't fault the OSU coaching staff, she was spectacular, and, as everyone saw this year, OSU centered its offense around Marie. And when Marie was doubled, our offense stagnated. With the addition of Destiny Slocum, I believe our offense will be centered around Destiny (as it should be). And, opposing defenses will not be able to double Destiny, as we have far more able ball handlers than every before.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Will talk says -------lotrader--and I have had some earlier discussions on the boneyard and so he has a pretty good idea of where I stand on various OSt. perspectives. Unlike Beavershoopsfan who seemed to have taken many of my statements out of context. Baseba1111 seems to have me pegged. I will talk and talk and talk.  . But he and many others should be greatful that your contact with me is on a site rather than in some coffee shop or then you would surely put a gun to your head after about a half an hour of listening to me. You see unlike lotrader and some of you who posted on this thread I am not really good at presenting my ideas through writing. On some other sites his very articulate posts made mine look like a third grader in comparison. I can write better, but it takes a lot of effort and basically I am too lazy. I try to put too many concepts into too few sentence. He has often followed my posts on other sites and literally pulled my "sh*t out of the fire. However in a verbal discussion you probably have never seen the like of me. I totally concur with lotraders take that dependence on Sydney hurt the development on other players. He stated it right to the point. This is not a criticism of Sydney but just the situation the team found itself in last season. Much of this has to do with the type of player she was. I will get more into that in my following response to another poster on this same thread. A teams personal changes and that often the transition can not happen over night. I also should apologize for the lateness of these responses, but I was dealing with a re- occurring middle ear infection. |
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Post by willtalk on Apr 13, 2018 12:21:09 GMT -8
---------------------------------- Willtalk is one of the very few posters who have asserted that the '16-'17 Beavs squad "underachieved" and did not have a successful season. To post that the '16-'17 Beavs were an example of a "failure of such a system" is laughable. For the record, a little research will show that the '16-'17 Beavs accomplished the following: If you check my post I never stated they did not have a successful season. I only said they underachieved. I stated this because they should have beaten Florida St. and perhaps SC as well. They certainly had the potential to do so.
- Went 31-5 and advanced to the third round of the NCAA tournament
- Captured a third consecutive PAC-12 regular season title
- Advanced to the championship game of the PAC-12 tournament
- Captured the 2016 Play for Kay tournament in Las Vegas
- Captured the 2016 Maui Classic
The Beavs accomplished the above despite graduating five seniors and three starters from the '15-'16 team that advanced to the Final Four in 2016 for the first time in program history. 411500's above post seemed to me to point out how the play and leadership of Sydney Wiese in '16-'17 did not cause resentment with her teammates despite the fact that the ball was in her hands the great majority of the time. I would agree with that assessment wholeheartedly. Syd was consistently the team-first leader who would deflect praise after wins to point out the positive contributions made by her teammates. Willtalk points out the games in which Syd struggled from the field in '16-'17, but fails to acknowledge the multitude of games (the first two wins over Stanford that season, both wins over Oregon, the road win at ASU, and many more) in which Syd's ability to simply take over games at critical times during those games helped carry the Beavs to victory. I watched either in person or via the PAC-12 Network nearly every game the Beavs played that season. Wiese's play was consistently strong if you objectively evaluate her entire body of work that season. She had very few games like the third one against Stanford and the final game of the season against Florida State. All players, even star players, will have difficult games and produce less-than-expected results. There were critics that season who would point out that she had trouble with and turnovers against smaller and quicker guards. I can assure you that those smaller and quicker guards had significant problems with trying to cover Syd as well. It didn't seem necessary for me to point out Wieses accomplishment on a Beaver web forum. I was in no way evaluating her entire body of work only that her cold streak was something that the team could not successfully deal with as evidence by the games I pointed out. Wiese was a very unusual player and that was her strength but also her weakness in respect to how it impacted the team. Her quick and unusual release combined with her handles allowed her to get her shot off pretty much when ever she wanted. She is a player who does not rely on rhythm and offensive flow. Rather she thrives in chao's. The thing is that the other players on her team ( most shooters ) thrive in and require rhythm offensive flow to get their shots. When your primary ball handler is focused on creating chao's it takes other rhythm players out of their game. Usually the chao's player is the off guard and not the point. To the flow players it is like trying to dance the waltz to a drummer playing progressive jazz.
As for Melgoza's role with the UW during her freshman season.... Melgoza had Plum, McDonald, and Romeo in the line-up ahead of her and she didn't play defense well enough to earn more minutes in Mike Neighbors' line-up that season. Neighbors would have played Melgoza more if she could have helped the Huskies that season. He wanted to win. He is paid to win. Neighbors saw Melgoza in practice every day. People who saw Melgoza play in high school and during AAU ball (Cal Stars-Team Taurasi) recognized that she was a gifted scorer who might struggle on the defensive end. Melgoza's offensive prowess during her sophomore year is in part attributable to the fact that her team didn't have many other viable offensive options and she had to take a lot of shots (she shot .429 from the field) for her 7-23 team to have a chance to win. I used Melgoza as a pre-emptive example to counter 411500's assertion that their were no other offensive options available on that Beaver team. He stated " no other consistent scores". My point was that Melgoza " who carried Wash. the next year" was also on the team the previous year yet invisible as a scorer. You can not assume that there are no other scorers available based on statistics alone. Sometimes they are there but just are not given the opportunity. I was well aware of McDonald ( she is from my neck of the woods as well) but that does not affect my use of Melgoza as my argument for assuming there are no scorers just because they are not given opportunities. Thus you can not assume that there were no other scoring options on the team besides Wiese to turn to if she should go cold.
I have seen a number of willtalk's posts on other women's basketball college message boards, including the Bearinsider.com (California) and the-boneyard.com (UConn's board). He is a relative latecomer to the OSU board and his analysis reflects that OSU is not his home or favorite team. He often posts negatively about OSU players in what appears to be attempts to stir up discontent and offer his expert analysis. Part of his problem seems to be that he simply doesn't watch enough of OSU's games to really have an solid insight as to what has transpired. His analysis is often biased against a player or players that he has witnessed have off nights. I don't like his tendency to single out players negatively for their play and opine that a specific OSU player or players have low basketball IQs as he has done repeatedly on at least two other message boards. He just doesn't know the game well enough and/or has watched enough OSU women's basketball to make those claims. It is true that I am a newcomer to the Oregon St. board, but that is only because I just discovered it. I am glad that my posts do not betray Oregon St as a favorite team. Yes I have favorite players and teams, but is always my intent to post in such a way as to not reveal by my post that I favor either a team or an individual player. It's about remaining objective. Oregon St. has been one of my favorite teams since Scott took over as the coach. He might be my favorite coach but that does not keep me from criticizing him on some of his individual decisions. I thought he dropped the ball on his second half adjustments in the Florida St. game. Even Wooden made in game errors.
I did not watch a lot of games last season but enough to justify my statements ( at least in my mind). I think I might have missed one game this season. I do not feel I single out players except as it applied to an evaluation of the teams strengths and weaknesses. Many of which were brought up not by me to begin with. You seem to think I singled out Pivec but that was taken purely out of context in respect to Oregon St. not really having a true point guard.In respect to the Oregon St. parameter players lacking BB IQ that was another aspect of the same issue. BB IQ is one quality required of an elite Point Guard even though there are many points who play despite not having it. BBIQ does not mean a player is not smart. It also involves court awareness, understanding and reading spacing and angles along with the ability to make the right decisions and that transcends just hitting an open man. It not just hitting the open man but getting the ball to the most optimum player one the court to hit the open man. Its akin to thinking moves ahead in chess. The fact that there were so many turn overs is a reflection of that lack. Via a focus on a two man game, the ball often stayed on one side of the court to allowing the defense to cheat and ended up getting players trapped thus causing turn overs. Sydneys chao's game did not help to provide a good model for the players who had to run the offense this season. She was an unconventional player who could do a lot of things they could not. They did ( especially Pivec who really improved her decision making ) however make significant improvements towards the end of the season and that was evident in the NCAA's. It think Pivec actually had the skills to do a credible job at the point once she learned to play within her own skill set. She is just an example of one player who's development was hurt playing with Sydney. Again this is not a criticism of Sydney. |
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. But he and many others should be greatful that your contact with me is on a site rather than in some coffee shop or then you would surely put a gun to your head after about a half an hour of listening to me. You see unlike lotrader and some of you who posted on this thread I am not really good at presenting my ideas through writing. On some other sites his very articulate posts made mine look like a third grader in comparison. I can write better, but it takes a lot of effort and basically I am too lazy. I try to put too many concepts into too few sentence. He has often followed my posts on other sites and literally pulled my "sh*t out of the fire. However in a verbal discussion you probably have never seen the like of me.