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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 16, 2018 9:28:15 GMT -8
Thank you for pointing out the obvious to some of us, why our society is so screwed up, and chaos now reigns. Too many people view accountability as vengeance. Holding Danny Moron, John Crapzano and the fish wrapper financially accountable for unnecessarily harming the university and his expected earnings is both justice and accountability - if he has no case, which I think he does, then a judge/ jury should agree with the Portlandian, right? Vengeance is putting either or both of them in the hospital, etc. - which is not what I am advocating. Two final points: 1. I think you are presuming to speak for Luke and his family. It is certainly possible, that he's decided to put the past behind him and look forward. I have not heard anything to the contrary from him. 2. If you are expecting a public apology or a successful civil suit against the Oregonian I think the likelihood of either (not to mention both) is extremely low. So brace yourself for disappointment. This story may never be resolved to your personal satisfaction.
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Post by mbabeav on Feb 16, 2018 10:08:26 GMT -8
Thank you for pointing out the obvious to some of us, why our society is so screwed up, and chaos now reigns. Too many people view accountability as vengeance. Holding Danny Moron, John Crapzano and the fish wrapper financially accountable for unnecessarily harming the university and his expected earnings is both justice and accountability - if he has no case, which I think he does, then a judge/ jury should agree with the Portlandian, right? Vengeance is putting either or both of them in the hospital, etc. - which is not what I am advocating. Two final points: 1. I think you are presuming to speak for Luke and his family. It is certainly possible, that he's decided to put the past behind him and look forward. I have not heard anything to the contrary from him. 2. If you are expecting a public apology or a successful civil suit against the Oregonian I think the likelihood of either (not to mention both) is extremely low. So brace yourself for disappointment. This story may never be resolved to your personal satisfaction. I pray for the first, that all family issues can be resolved and everyone move forward, and with my understanding of how hard it is to sue the press, then nothing is likely to happen there that can do anything but continue the fingernails scratching across the chalkboard for months and years to come. Time to move forward.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 16, 2018 12:25:06 GMT -8
Interesting letter from a Washington attorney (and an *uck) on angrybeavs.com LinkageThe guy pulls no punches about the irresponsible "journalism" exhibited by the little zero... 2015 ORS 163A.005(6)(c)(1): A "sex offender" means a person who has been convicted in another United States court of a crime that would constitute a sex crime if committed in this state. Martin Meyer gives a good rundown of the law of the State of Washington. However, according to the laws of the sovereign State of Oregon, Luke Heimlich is (or, at least at the time of the original "Oregonian" article, was) a "sex offender" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, because he was "convicted" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, of a "sex crime," as that term is defined in the State of Oregon. The "sex crime" that Luke Heimlich admitted to is a "felony conviction," as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, which makes (or, at least at the time of the article, made) Heimlich a "convicted felon" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon. Love it or hate it, Florida and Oregon annually vie for the harshest laws related to underage juveniles, who commit crimes (or at least who commit crimes, if they committed them as adults). A person with Heimlich's background should never have signed up to play in the State of Oregon. It was almost literally asking for what occurred. If you ignore the laws of the State of Oregon and focus on the laws of the State of Washington, I 100% agree with Mr. Meyer, but Mr. Meyer fails to incorporate the laws of the State of Oregon into his article. Legal words have legal meaning but those meanings can change, depending upon location.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 16, 2018 12:36:26 GMT -8
Thanks for posting, beaverdude. The attached letter states very eloquently (but not succinctly) why some on this board were saying last year that LH was hosed, harmed financially, emotionally, personally, etc. by individuals that were guilty of journalistic malpractice and character assassination. Just as someone cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theatre and hide behind freedom of speech, DM and the whoregonian should not be able to hide behind immunity of the press and their first amendment rights while putting out false information and destruction on a young man's character - BS! It is one of the reasons why I will always despise DM and the dead fish wrapper. It also underscores why IMHO we cannot really calculate the damage that was done to LH and OSU for digging up this unnecessary dirt. What was lost? A potential MVP award for the CWS? Another CWS title? The value of a first round contract with a MLB team? I can understand why LH did not seek a massive settlement in court from the fish wrapper at the time, but if he doesn't get his day in the sun this year, if the beavers are not able to make it to the CWS - the Portlandian royally deserves to be hit with a multi-million dollar lawsuit, equal to or greater than the value of the contract they cost him this past year. I think the letter closes with a subtle suggestion they are liable. Just one man's opinion. The First Amendment should be semi-sacred to everyone in this country. Everyone is entitled to his or her jack@$$ opinion. And everyone has the absolute right to state his or her jack@$$ opinion to everyone that he or she wants to. From what I can tell, nothing that the "Oregonian" reported was false, at least, when viewed through the prism of the laws of the State of Oregon. If Heimlich did want to sue the "Oregonian," I believe that he has to request that the "Oregonian" correct or retract the story within 21 days and the "Oregonian" must refuse such correction/retraction. (I would hazard to guess that Heimlich probably does not, because there is a high degree of probability that very damaging things about him would be revealed through discovery.)
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 16, 2018 12:39:56 GMT -8
Interesting letter from a Washington attorney (and an *uck) on angrybeavs.com LinkageThe guy pulls no punches about the irresponsible "journalism" exhibited by the little zero... 2015 ORS 163A.005(6)(c)(1): A "sex offender" means a person who has been convicted in another United States court of a crime that would constitute a sex crime if committed in this state. Martin Meyer gives a good rundown of the law of the State of Washington. However, according to the laws of the sovereign State of Oregon, Luke Heimlich is (or, at least at the time of the original "Oregonian" article, was) a "sex offender" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, because he was "convicted" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, of a "sex crime," as that term is defined in the State of Oregon. The sex crime that Luke Heimlich admitted to is a "felony conviction" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, which makes (or, at least made Heimlich at the time of the article, made) Heimlich a "convicted felon" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon. Love it or hate it, Florida and Oregon annually vie for the harshest laws related to underage juveniles, who commit crimes (or at least who commit crimes, if they committed them as adults). A person with Heimlich's background should never have signed up to play in the State of Oregon. It was almost literally asking for what occurred. If you ignore the laws of the State of Oregon and focus on the laws of the State of Washington, I 100% agree with Mr. Meyer, but Mr. Meyer fails to incorporate the laws of the State of Oregon into his article. Legal words have legal meaning but those meanings can change, depending upon location. Your reading skills seem to abandon you when this topic assesses... again and again... OR law cited never applied... for the last time... HE WAS NEVER CONVICTED OF ANY CRIME. READ...
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 16, 2018 12:45:52 GMT -8
2015 ORS 163A.005(6)(c)(1): A "sex offender" means a person who has been convicted in another United States court of a crime that would constitute a sex crime if committed in this state. Martin Meyer gives a good rundown of the law of the State of Washington. However, according to the laws of the sovereign State of Oregon, Luke Heimlich is (or, at least at the time of the original "Oregonian" article, was) a "sex offender" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, because he was "convicted" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, of a "sex crime," as that term is defined in the State of Oregon. The sex crime that Luke Heimlich admitted to is a "felony conviction" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, which makes (or, at least at the time of the article, made) Heimlich a "convicted felon" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon. Love it or hate it, Florida and Oregon annually vie for the harshest laws related to underage juveniles, who commit crimes (or at least who commit crimes, if they committed them as adults). A person with Heimlich's background should never have signed up to play in the State of Oregon. It was almost literally asking for what occurred. If you ignore the laws of the State of Oregon and focus on the laws of the State of Washington, I 100% agree with Mr. Meyer, but Mr. Meyer fails to incorporate the laws of the State of Oregon into his article. Legal words have legal meaning but those meanings can change, depending upon location. Your reading skills seem to abandon you when this topic assesses... again and again... OR law cited never applied... for the last time... HE WAS NEVER CONVICTED OF ANY CRIME. READ... Oregon law is applied in the State of Oregon. In Oregon, he was "convicted" of a "sex crime" in the State of Washington. Heimlich is (or at least, was) a "sex offender." If he travels to Washington, he is not a "convicted felon," but he is in the State of Oregon. Legal words have legal meaning, but those meanings can change, depending upon location. In the State of Washington, he was never convicted of any crime. I agree. In the sovereign State of Oregon, however, he was "convicted" of a "sex crime." He is (or was) a "sex offender." Read!
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 16, 2018 12:49:55 GMT -8
2015 ORS 163A.005(6)(c)(1): A "sex offender" means a person who has been convicted in another United States court of a crime that would constitute a sex crime if committed in this state. Martin Meyer gives a good rundown of the law of the State of Washington. However, according to the laws of the sovereign State of Oregon, Luke Heimlich is (or, at least at the time of the original "Oregonian" article, was) a "sex offender" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, because he was "convicted" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, of a "sex crime," as that term is defined in the State of Oregon. The "sex crime" that Luke Heimlich admitted to is a "felony conviction," as that term is defined in the State of Oregon, which makes (or, at least at the time of the article, made) Heimlich a "convicted felon" as that term is defined in the State of Oregon. What's your legal background? I have been an attorney for 12 years now. I get where Mr. Meyer is coming from, but I get the impression that he is not very well versed in Oregon law (or is just not taking it into consideration).
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 16, 2018 13:24:44 GMT -8
What's your legal background? I have been an attorney for 12 years now. I get where Mr. Meyer is coming from, but I get the impression that he is not very well versed in Oregon law (or is just not taking it into consideration). You're not a good one then... AG's office had several of my friends... You have to be convicted in another jurisdiction to have that apply. It is not whether he'd be convicted in Oregon. As explained to me by a veteran prosecutor of 30 plus years... you can not apply statues and laws of crimes committed in one state to now residing in Oregon. As he stated it would cause an unending series of issues. Hence, the reason Luke was not even required to report.
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 16, 2018 14:12:13 GMT -8
What's your legal background? I have been an attorney for 12 years now. I get where Mr. Meyer is coming from, but I get the impression that he is not very well versed in Oregon law (or is just not taking it into consideration). You are going to have to explain your logic, because the central argument of the letter is that LH was NOT convicted of a felony. your statement is that BECAUSE he was convicted of a felony in Washington, he is a sex offender in Oregon. "it was wrong and misleading for the Oregonian to use the words “criminal” and “felony” and similar terms when referring to Mr. Heimlich’s juvenile offender proceeding. Under Washington law, and as applicable to Heimlich’s case, juveniles are NOT considered criminals nor are they convicted of crimes. Rather, they are adjudicated of having committed offenses which would constitute a crime if committed by an adult. RCW 13.40.020 (21) specifically defines “Offense” and RCW 13.40.070 references a county prosecuting attorney’s authority to screen complaints as “offenses.” In such cases, offenders are not referred to as a “defendant” in relevant pleadings but are named as a “respondent.” See RCW 13.40.020(25)." and further in the letter: "Indeed, the DOE’s specific best-practice guidance to college applicants reads: “If you have been adjudicated as a juvenile delinquent or have youthful offender status, you should respond to the felony question [on your college application] by checking ‘no.’” (U. S. Department of Education, “Beyond the Box,” Washington, DC, 2016, p. 23). Thus, if Heimlich was asked on his college entrance application whether or not he had ever been convicted of a crime, his answer “NO” would have been completely lawful and truthful." The case is stated, and correctly I think, that LH is not, nor ever was, "a convicted felon". for the statue you are referencing to apply he must be convicted in another state. and as the letter is making abundantly clear, he never was.
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Post by ee1990 on Feb 16, 2018 14:14:10 GMT -8
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 16, 2018 14:17:22 GMT -8
wow. how would of thought you would show up and be too f%#*ing stupid to understand the argument? will wonders never cease?
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Post by nabeav on Feb 16, 2018 14:39:47 GMT -8
So Luke was "wronged" because his admitted sexual contact with a child was called a felony instead of a juvenile offense. Because he was labeled as "convicted" instead of "adjudicated."
Is this what we're arguing right now?
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Post by NativeBeav on Feb 16, 2018 14:47:47 GMT -8
Thank you for pointing out the obvious to some of us, why our society is so screwed up, and chaos now reigns. Too many people view accountability as vengeance. Holding Danny Moron, John Crapzano and the fish wrapper financially accountable for unnecessarily harming the university and his expected earnings is both justice and accountability - if he has no case, which I think he does, then a judge/ jury should agree with the Portlandian, right? Vengeance is putting either or both of them in the hospital, etc. - which is not what I am advocating. Two final points: 1. I think you are presuming to speak for Luke and his family. It is certainly possible, that he's decided to put the past behind him and look forward. I have not heard anything to the contrary from him. 2. If you are expecting a public apology or a successful civil suit against the Oregonian I think the likelihood of either (not to mention both) is extremely low. So brace yourself for disappointment. This story may never be resolved to your personal satisfaction. I do not begin to presume to speak for LH or his family. And if he needed to take action last year when the article was written to be able to sue at a later time, then it is a moot point. I believe that when bad people do dishonest, bad things, even if it costs us in time and money, we have a moral obligation to take action. Otherwise, who will be next? When will the BS stop? Regarding a lawsuit, it is my prediction a good prosecutor could successfully take on the Oregonian, and I bet some would take it pro bono if they really understood how this kid and his family were hosed. Meanwhile, Crapzano and Moron were able to have their fake moral outrage, and make money off of the story and the family, while damaging LH and his family - and indirectly, the university. And no, I will not be disappointed when they do nothing. I rather kind of expect it. Plenty of people in this world are more than happy to be kicked in the groin, so to speak, and not respond. Their choice, not mine.
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Post by NativeBeav on Feb 16, 2018 14:51:00 GMT -8
I pray for the first, that all family issues can be resolved and everyone move forward, and with my understanding of how hard it is to sue the press, then nothing is likely to happen there that can do anything but continue the fingernails scratching across the chalkboard for months and years to come. Time to move forward. So, you are OK with the Oregonian making money off of the story, damaging the reputation of OSU, since the implication at the time was the university had somehow screwed up by recruiting this kid and allowing him to play, since he was a "convicted felon"? Not to mention the millions of dollars he lost by not being a first round draft pick, as projected? Really?
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Post by nabeav on Feb 16, 2018 14:55:53 GMT -8
Regardless of what the charge was, how it is referred to, how the Oregonian found it out and reported it, how the school responded, etc.....it comes down to this really:
Do you personally think he sexually molested his niece?
If your answer to that question is "well he probably did SOMETHING to her" and you're arguing that he has been wronged by society somehow.....I just don't know how you reconcile that.
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