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Post by mbabeav on Nov 6, 2017 12:48:25 GMT -8
Listening to the presser on the JBS, I think he's realizing that enthusiasm alone isn't going to make victories happen. Head Coach on a Beav squad with the record this year is a lot different from worrying about things as a position coach.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 6, 2017 13:01:40 GMT -8
Listening to the presser on the JBS, I think he's realizing that enthusiasm alone isn't going to make victories happen. Head Coach on a Beav squad with the record this year is a lot different from worrying about things as a position coach. The teams certainly dropped a good opportunity with an underwhelming performance. The magnitude of everything wrong with us is a lot to absorb. I don't want to hate to much on the guy, but holy cow DG is not a D-1 quarterback. period. SOOOO many drives ended because he couldn't get the ball within a country mile of a reciever. It is so frustrating to watch. We have a nice play, one of our guys is open, has a window and that ball is no where close. The number of times Nall had to pick a terrible pass out of the dirt was incredible. But, not to diverge from Hall... Like I have said from day one, Hall is simply doing the basics, the fundamentals. and after 2.5 years of complete insanity, just seeing that. just seeing the bare basic fundamental minimum looked like wizardry to us. That is how insane CGA was. that is how ridiculous things were. That "just playing football like any normal coach would call" is viewed as some sort of black magic wizardry. I still believe Hall is a rising star. He is going places as a coach. It is just that his next stop is not going to be HC at OSU. Will he still be at OSU? who knows. the kids love him, so there is certainly an rational reason to keep him.
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Post by ag87 on Nov 6, 2017 13:10:07 GMT -8
Listening to the presser on the JBS, I think he's realizing that enthusiasm alone isn't going to make victories happen. Head Coach on a Beav squad with the record this year is a lot different from worrying about things as a position coach. I don't want to hate to much on the guy, but holy cow DG is not a D-1 quarterback. period. SOOOO many drives ended because he couldn't get the ball within a country mile of a reciever. It is so frustrating to watch. We have a nice play, one of our guys is open, has a window and that ball is no where close. The number of times Nall had to pick a terrible pass out of the dirt was incredible. And folks wonder why Villamin appears disinterested . . . .
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Post by beavadelic on Nov 6, 2017 13:42:18 GMT -8
Poor Coach Hall. I’m sure that after that performance against Colorado he may have felt like his combination of solid football knowledge, enthusiasm and ability to motivate kids could lessen the impact of his lack of head college coaching experience and a dearth of talent on our roster right now. I wouldn’t blame him for thinking “what if...” just a little about being our next permanent head coach. The Cal game would have to have been a sobering reminder of reality right now: we have big holes talent-wise, and zero depth.
The kids that we have on the field right now are over-matched. Our QB has the ability to throw a beautiful intermediate ball from time to time, but his short and deep balls are almost always inaccurate, and he can’t throw anything well consistently. Our tight ends can hardly catch a cold, and even if we had burners to take the top off of a defense (which we don’t), we have nobody to get receivers the ball. Our O-line is thin and weak, and our defensive lone is worse. Our linebackers are capable but fundamentally-flawed, and our best defensive position group, the secondary has been decimated by injury to the point of having to rely on a handful of young, inexperienced backups. I wonder how much the pathetic D-line and generally undisciplined front 7 has contributed to our secondary injuries? I feel like the lack of good football at the first level has led to far too much contact and too many tackles by the corners and safeties. Our program is facing a bonafide crisis on both our offensive and defensive lines right now. Putrid. Throw on mediocrity by our punter and the field position issues there, and it’s hard to see how any coach could squeeze many wins out of them, even in a down cycle overall in level of competition in our conference.
I appreciate Cory Hall a ton. I’d love to see him become our D-Coordinator next year, but hopefully last Saturday’s reality check in Berserkley can put to bed the notion that he should be our next head coach. It’s not a knock on the man or his potential, it’s just not the right time yet. Ditto for Jonathan Smith or the D-Coordinator at UW, IMO. The guy we get must have experience and cred, and a clear plan that meshes with reality in Corvallis. I have no clue who that guy is, but, IMO, if Barnes hires anyone who is lacking in any of those aspects, our chances of getting back on track for the foreseeable future are greatly diminished.
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Post by vhalum92 on Nov 6, 2017 14:20:21 GMT -8
Poor Coach Hall. I’m sure that after that performance against Colorado he may have felt like his combination of solid football knowledge, enthusiasm and ability to motivate kids could lessen the impact of his lack of head college coaching experience and a dearth of talent on our roster right now. I wouldn’t blame him for thinking “what if...” just a little about being our next permanent head coach. The Cal game would have to have been a sobering reminder of reality right now: we have big holes talent-wise, and zero depth. The kids that we have on the field right now are over-matched. Our QB has the ability to throw a beautiful intermediate ball from time to time, but his short and deep balls are almost always inaccurate, and he can’t throw anything well consistently. Our tight ends can hardly catch a cold, and even if we had burners to take the top off of a defense (which we don’t), we have nobody to get receivers the ball. Our O-line is thin and weak, and our defensive lone is worse. Our linebackers are capable but fundamentally-flawed, and our best defensive position group, the secondary has been decimated by injury to the point of having to rely on a handful of young, inexperienced backups. I wonder how much the pathetic D-line and generally undisciplined front 7 has contributed to our secondary injuries? I feel like the lack of good football at the first level has led to far too much contact and too many tackles by the corners and safeties. Our program is facing a bonafide crisis on both our offensive and defensive lines right now. Putrid. Throw on mediocrity by our punter and the field position issues there, and it’s hard to see how any coach could squeeze many wins out of them, even in a down cycle overall in level of competition in our conference. I appreciate Cory Hall a ton. I’d love to see him become our D-Coordinator next year, but hopefully last Saturday’s reality check in Berserkley can put to bed the notion that he should be our next head coach. It’s not a knock on the man or his potential, it’s just not the right time yet. Ditto for Jonathan Smith or the D-Coordinator at UW, IMO. The guy we get must have experience and cred, and a clear plan that meshes with reality in Corvallis. I have no clue who that guy is, but, IMO, if Barnes hires anyone who is lacking in any of those aspects, our chances of getting back on track for the foreseeable future are greatly diminished. I agree so much... these up and coming position coaches and D coordinators will be great head coaches some day, if that is what they want but we need a guy who has done it. We can't swing and miss on this hire... another 3-4 years of wandering in the desert will absolutely set us back even further. I love that Hall is getting kids to commit to this program at this stage of the process, I love his energy and football IQ. Lets also give credit for his game management skills as that has been spot on in my opinion... but I think he might be seeing how tall the Mountain is right about now. He may also just be tired after the first road game/trip and needing to get ready for another road trip to AZ.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 14:44:24 GMT -8
I think this idea that we have to have someone that has "done it" is silly. Andersen had "done it" and look how that turned out.
Yes, if you can find an up and coming coach with HC experience who wants the job (Norvell or Sanford Jr. for instance, Wilcox in a miracle scenario) sign them but if none of those guys want it and you refuse to look at coordinators and instead end up with Rocky Long (or even Tedford) because he has "done it" I think another 3-4 years of wandering the desert is as likely if not more likely than if you picked the right coordinator.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 6, 2017 14:55:59 GMT -8
I think this idea that we have to have someone that has "done it" is silly. Andersen had "done it" and look how that turned out. Yes, if you can find an up and coming coach with HC experience who wants the job (Norvell or Sanford Jr. for instance, Wilcox in a miracle scenario) sign them but if none of those guys want it and you refuse to look at coordinators and instead end up with Rocky Long (or even Tedford) because he has "done it" I think another 3-4 years of wandering the desert is as likely if not more likely than if you picked the right coordinator. Tedford is fwo for two on fast turnarounds. He's also 1 for 1 on taking a long term crappy program to 7-10 wins in 9 out of eleven seasons. That it doing it. It's not GA's one good year and getting a good team and not screwing it up in two years before quitting. It's not being an assistant at a team that has a few hot years and moving up. The majority of up and coming coordinators will never have the kind of success Tedford has had at Cal, and appears to be moving towards again at Fresno State.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 6, 2017 15:37:51 GMT -8
I think this idea that we have to have someone that has "done it" is silly. Andersen had "done it" and look how that turned out. Yes, if you can find an up and coming coach with HC experience who wants the job (Norvell or Sanford Jr. for instance, Wilcox in a miracle scenario) sign them but if none of those guys want it and you refuse to look at coordinators and instead end up with Rocky Long (or even Tedford) because he has "done it" I think another 3-4 years of wandering the desert is as likely if not more likely than if you picked the right coordinator. I think in hindsight, the question is "Did Andersen really do it". We hired him after 6 years of coaching experience, that included one big year in a weak conference (his two losses were to P5 teams) and with even more scrutiny it appears he was abnormally lucky at QB, and had an NFL RB he didn't recruit. At Wisconsin, it is clear he had no true overall say in the program, and didn't even really hire his own assistants. He took a good program over, and ran a first round NFL RB 30+ times a game to 9 win seasons. Andersen's resume, under scrutiny is a smokescreen. All Andersen showed us is the best of us can be fooled by a charleton. Tedford's resume in comparison is a universe better. Proof of both immediately improving a bad team, sustaining his OWN team with his own players, and advancing though full 4-5 year cycles of recruiting talent.
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Post by vhalum92 on Nov 6, 2017 18:00:40 GMT -8
I think this idea that we have to have someone that has "done it" is silly. Andersen had "done it" and look how that turned out. Yes, if you can find an up and coming coach with HC experience who wants the job (Norvell or Sanford Jr. for instance, Wilcox in a miracle scenario) sign them but if none of those guys want it and you refuse to look at coordinators and instead end up with Rocky Long (or even Tedford) because he has "done it" I think another 3-4 years of wandering the desert is as likely if not more likely than if you picked the right coordinator. Calling the idea "Silly" because you have one example that didn't work out for us isn't a very strong argument. Yes, there are Coordinators who have succeeded as head coaches and head coaches that have failed. The trick to the interview process will need to be wading through the mix of experience, coaching ability, talent recognition, recruiting ability, coaching connections, etc.... We can find a winner in both camps, I'm just worried the chances of a swing and miss will be higher with a guy who has never been a college HC, at any level. That is why I'm a Baldwin guy.... he has done it. Tedford, sure. Wilcox, bring him on... but if we go to a position coach or coordinator who hasn't been a HC you better "Stick" that hire because we simply can't afford to go backwards here. Go BEAVS!
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Post by skyrider on Nov 7, 2017 3:33:05 GMT -8
Beavadelic said in a previous post on this thread-"I appreciate Cory Hall a ton. I’d love to see him become our D-Coordinator next year, but hopefully last Saturday’s reality check in Berkley can put to bed the notion that he should be our next head coach. It’s not a knock on the man or his potential, it’s just not the right time yet. Ditto for Jonathan Smith or the D-Coordinator at UW, IMO. The guy we get must have experience and cred, and a clear plan that meshes with reality in Corvallis. I have no clue who that guy is, but, IMO, if Barnes hires anyone who is lacking in any of those aspects, our chances of getting back on track for the foreseeable future are greatly diminished". That statement sums up the challenge ahead which is a monumental one. There is likely to be at least 3 to 4 more years of 2 to 3 win seasons at best given the talent level OSU now has and have recruited for the future. Ed Ray and Scott Barnes best not screw this choice up!
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Nov 7, 2017 5:05:11 GMT -8
"The kids that we have on the field right now are over-matched. Our QB has the ability to throw a beautiful intermediate ball from time to time, but his short and deep balls are almost always inaccurate, and he can’t throw anything well consistently. Our tight ends can hardly catch a cold, and even if we had burners to take the top off of a defense (which we don’t), we have nobody to get receivers the ball. Our O-line is thin and weak, and our defensive lone is worse. Our linebackers are capable but fundamentally-flawed, and our best defensive position group, the secondary has been decimated by injury to the point of having to rely on a handful of young, inexperienced backups. I wonder how much the pathetic D-line and generally undisciplined front 7 has contributed to our secondary injuries? I feel like the lack of good football at the first level has led to far too much contact and too many tackles by the corners and safeties. Our program is facing a bonafide crisis on both our offensive and defensive lines right now. Putrid. Throw on mediocrity by our punter and the field position issues there, and it’s hard to see how any coach could squeeze many wins out of them, even in a down cycle overall in level of competition in our conference."
Damn, after reading this at 4:30 a.m. I need a drink Great post however.
Go Beavs!!
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Post by orangeattack on Nov 8, 2017 11:08:05 GMT -8
We are now at a point with the program that we are hoping for the Beavs to just keep it competitive. Expectations have been reset 20 years.. a 3 win season is tolerable as long as we are in the game and not just on the receiving end of a beat down every Saturday.
We are soft on both lines and that's a killer. The front 7 can be fixed with Juco talent and some size at ILB if we are going to stick with the 3-4 base set. The OL should improve next year.. mostly because they can't get any worse.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 8, 2017 11:36:45 GMT -8
We are now at a point with the program that we are hoping for the Beavs to just keep it competitive. Expectations have been reset 20 years.. a 3 win season is tolerable as long as we are in the game and not just on the receiving end of a beat down every Saturday. We are soft on both lines and that's a killer. The front 7 can be fixed with Juco talent and some size at ILB if we are going to stick with the 3-4 base set. The OL should improve next year.. mostly because they can't get any worse.The 2014 roster had 21 offensive lineman on it. The 2015 roster had 22 offensive lineman on it. CGA openly states we have too many and we need to re balance. He signs one OL in the 2016 class. Several OL are medically retired The 2016 roster had 18 OL and after the season a large number move on. The 2017 roster has 16 OL on it, that includes pulling in two JCs late and converting Sumner Houston over from the DL to center. We all know CGA did a lot of stupid things, OL mismanagement is part of the low simmer in the background. We have only 3 freshman OL on this team (though 6 sophomores...) OL recruiting has to be Les Miles (thinking positive here) number 1 priority.
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Post by orangeattack on Nov 8, 2017 12:07:59 GMT -8
We are now at a point with the program that we are hoping for the Beavs to just keep it competitive. Expectations have been reset 20 years.. a 3 win season is tolerable as long as we are in the game and not just on the receiving end of a beat down every Saturday. We are soft on both lines and that's a killer. The front 7 can be fixed with Juco talent and some size at ILB if we are going to stick with the 3-4 base set. The OL should improve next year.. mostly because they can't get any worse.The 2014 roster had 21 offensive lineman on it. The 2015 roster had 22 offensive lineman on it. CGA openly states we have too many and we need to re balance. He signs one OL in the 2016 class. Several OL are medically retired The 2016 roster had 18 OL and after the season a large number move on. The 2017 roster has 16 OL on it, that includes pulling in two JCs late and converting Sumner Houston over from the DL to center. We all know CGA did a lot of stupid things, OL mismanagement is part of the low simmer in the background. We have only 3 freshman OL on this team (though 6 sophomores...) OL recruiting has to be Les Miles (thinking positive here) number 1 priority. Funny.. the worst offenses that we had at Oregon State under Riley came during the time we couldn't recruit OL to save our collectively figurative life. Now we're back down to 13 schollie OL plus a couple more than you threw in as a Hail Mary. I remember when CGA said he the program was too OL-heavy and I remember us (you and I specifically) commenting "uhhh.. this doesn't sound like a good thing to not recruit OL..."
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 8, 2017 12:17:45 GMT -8
The 2014 roster had 21 offensive lineman on it. The 2015 roster had 22 offensive lineman on it. CGA openly states we have too many and we need to re balance. He signs one OL in the 2016 class. Several OL are medically retired The 2016 roster had 18 OL and after the season a large number move on. The 2017 roster has 16 OL on it, that includes pulling in two JCs late and converting Sumner Houston over from the DL to center. We all know CGA did a lot of stupid things, OL mismanagement is part of the low simmer in the background. We have only 3 freshman OL on this team (though 6 sophomores...) OL recruiting has to be Les Miles (thinking positive here) number 1 priority. Funny.. the worst offenses that we had at Oregon State under Riley came during the time we couldn't recruit OL to save our collectively figurative life. Now we're back down to 13 schollie OL plus a couple more than you threw in as a Hail Mary. I remember when CGA said he the program was too OL-heavy and I remember us (you and I specifically) commenting "uhhh.. this doesn't sound like a good thing to not recruit OL..." an NFL team generally carries 10 OL on a 53 man roster, and almost always has a OL or two stashed on the practice squad. These are not players that need to be developed, but immediately game ready players. you are not rostering projects... just necessary depth. an NFL team commits nearly 20% of its roster to that one position group. Gary Andersen committed 15% of his scholarships to that position group, and in college you have to expect the need to develop players. 17 scholarship OL would be an NFL minimum standard. 20 scholarship OL is more of a safe standard considering the need to redshirt 2-4 OL every year, and have another 2-4 buried on the scout team under development for another year.
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