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Post by beaver55to7 on Oct 5, 2017 17:55:43 GMT -8
"Institutional responsibility for"....that pretty much covers all employees in position of authority/student relationships I would think. A professor would have institutional responsibility for any student, whether that student was in their class or not. The janitor would not have institutional responsibility. Yes, but not all for all. If I was a professor, I have institutional authority over my students, advisees, etc. But, if I'm the football coach, it doesn't necessarily mean I have institutional authority over a civil engineering major is is not in my classes, working directly with or for me in an athletic capacity, an athlete tutor, etc. Essentially, if I met the woman at Peacock's but never see her any other place or function related to the University, I can schtook her to our hearts desire. Should I? Probably not. Disagree with that. When students started throwing stuff on the basketball court during the Ralph Miller era, he went to the PA grapped the microphone and told the Students to "knock this crap off right now." You could have heard a mouse fart when he was done. Not going to buy that he didn't have institutional authority over every student anywhere on that campus. I think there are some Bob Knight stories of his discipline of random students who pissed him off. Better have a good lawyer if you are going to try and claim as a head coach at a d1 university that you don't have institutional authority over the students.
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Post by jdogge on Oct 5, 2017 19:25:17 GMT -8
Yes, but not all for all. If I was a professor, I have institutional authority over my students, advisees, etc. But, if I'm the football coach, it doesn't necessarily mean I have institutional authority over a civil engineering major is is not in my classes, working directly with or for me in an athletic capacity, an athlete tutor, etc. Essentially, if I met the woman at Peacock's but never see her any other place or function related to the University, I can schtook her to our hearts desire. Should I? Probably not. Disagree with that. When students started throwing stuff on the basketball court during the Ralph Miller era, he went to the PA grapped the microphone and told the Students to "knock this crap off right now." You could have heard a mouse fart when he was done. Not going to buy that he didn't have institutional authority over every student anywhere on that campus. I think there are some Bob Knight stories of his discipline of random students who pissed him off. Better have a good lawyer if you are going to try and claim as a head coach at a d1 university that you don't have institutional authority over the students. You're confusing institutional authority to leadership and moral authority. The University didn't put in Miller's job description -- "you have authority over everyone that can hear your voice." His specific "authority" conferred by the University [Institution] was over the Basketball team and coaches, not the fans. If a male fan rapes a female fan at the free throw line during a game, campus security is legally answerable. If a Beaver men's basketball player does it, Miller is legally accountable. I'm still looking for better examples. But, this hints at the relationship.
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Post by nabeav on Oct 5, 2017 21:49:47 GMT -8
If a coach did close the deal with a coed, that'd at least show me that, given the right motivation, they can put together a competent gameplan.
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Post by beaver55to7 on Oct 6, 2017 5:21:07 GMT -8
Disagree with that. When students started throwing stuff on the basketball court during the Ralph Miller era, he went to the PA grapped the microphone and told the Students to "knock this crap off right now." You could have heard a mouse fart when he was done. Not going to buy that he didn't have institutional authority over every student anywhere on that campus. I think there are some Bob Knight stories of his discipline of random students who pissed him off. Better have a good lawyer if you are going to try and claim as a head coach at a d1 university that you don't have institutional authority over the students. You're confusing institutional authority to leadership and moral authority. The University didn't put in Miller's job description -- "you have authority over everyone that can hear your voice." His specific "authority" conferred by the University [Institution] was over the Basketball team and coaches, not the fans. If a male fan rapes a female fan at the free throw line during a game, campus security is legally answerable. If a Beaver men's basketball player does it, Miller is legally accountable. I'm still looking for better examples. But, this hints at the relationship. Your link is garbage. If they had meant it to be only over those they supervised, they would have simply used the word supervised. Obviously (well not to you) it is meant to be much more comprehensive then that. If you are in this position, seek legal council.
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Post by osulax24 on Oct 6, 2017 6:12:45 GMT -8
Your point?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 7:19:08 GMT -8
If a coach did close the deal with a coed, that'd at least show me that, given the right motivation, they can put together a competent gameplan. oh you scamp you.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 6, 2017 8:42:49 GMT -8
You're confusing institutional authority to leadership and moral authority. The University didn't put in Miller's job description -- "you have authority over everyone that can hear your voice." His specific "authority" conferred by the University [Institution] was over the Basketball team and coaches, not the fans. If a male fan rapes a female fan at the free throw line during a game, campus security is legally answerable. If a Beaver men's basketball player does it, Miller is legally accountable. I'm still looking for better examples. But, this hints at the relationship. Your link is garbage. If they had meant it to be only over those they supervised, they would have simply used the word supervised. Obviously (well not to you) it is meant to be much more comprehensive then that. If you are in this position, seek legal council. LOL... well he tends to accuse others of his own "knows everything". Even when several call him out as incorrect he sticks by his unloaded guns! I'm thinking "doggie" very much resembles our HC in that regard. Both should limit their public "speaking"...
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Post by jdogge on Oct 6, 2017 8:58:08 GMT -8
You're confusing institutional authority to leadership and moral authority. The University didn't put in Miller's job description -- "you have authority over everyone that can hear your voice." His specific "authority" conferred by the University [Institution] was over the Basketball team and coaches, not the fans. If a male fan rapes a female fan at the free throw line during a game, campus security is legally answerable. If a Beaver men's basketball player does it, Miller is legally accountable. I'm still looking for better examples. But, this hints at the relationship. Your link is garbage. If they had meant it to be only over those they supervised, they would have simply used the word supervised. Obviously (well not to you) it is meant to be much more comprehensive then that. If you are in this position, seek legal council. Ok, now you're just being dense. When you actually learn something about how bureaucracies operate and to decipher administrative language, we can continue this conversation.
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 6, 2017 9:48:54 GMT -8
Your link is garbage. If they had meant it to be only over those they supervised, they would have simply used the word supervised. Obviously (well not to you) it is meant to be much more comprehensive then that. If you are in this position, seek legal council. Ok, now you're just being dense. When you actually learn something about how bureaucracies operate and to decipher administrative language, we can continue this conversation. I am not sure why this conversation is even a conversation. Gary Andersen's contract, which is just a google away, clearly states he is expected to represent OSU with professionalism and integrity. The contract has a several page long code of ethics he expected to follow. The contract also clearly states he is expected to comply with all university policies as well. He is an employee of Oregon State University after all. He is faculty. He does not exist outside the university in any capacity whatsoever. he is a PERS eligible university employee that must follow Oregon law, Oregon State University policy and NCAA regulations. His contract also states, that he is to, to the best of his ability, ensure that his assistant coaches follow the same expectations. He is responsible for his assistant coaches behavior. If Anderpants was aware of behavior that reflected poorly on OSU and did not act... he'd be in a world of hurt. The nebulous "with professionalism and integrity" is a generalized category for "don't embarrass this university with your behavior" If such rumors were to be true, Oregon State would absolutely have every reason to fire Andersen with cause. Andersen would have every opportunity to attempt to file suit to claim it was not with cause. Both parties would mediate... but if they got in a court room and drunken parties and banging co eds was the topic, I am not sure how much success he is going to have. Can we put a fork in this one?
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Post by mbabeav on Oct 6, 2017 9:57:22 GMT -8
How the F$^@ did this degenerate into a morals discussion hitting at other programs and people when the original thought was a hypothetical, which in and of itself was a desperate attempt to seek any possible reason that a particular coach might violate their contract and get dismissed - o, I forget, it's "social" media.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 10:25:32 GMT -8
How the F$^@ did this degenerate into a morals discussion hitting at other programs and people when the original thought was a hypothetical, which in and of itself was a desperate attempt to seek any possible reason that a particular coach might violate their contract and get dismissed - o, I forget, it's "social" media.
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Post by alwaysorange on Oct 6, 2017 10:31:49 GMT -8
Some of you must think there is aneasy way to get rid of the coach by throwing around the crap that is being discussed here. You had better have concrete evidence or you paying full buyout court costs and defamation charges
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Post by electricbeaver on Oct 6, 2017 12:53:52 GMT -8
If a coach did close the deal with a coed, that'd at least show me that, given the right motivation, they can put together a competent gameplan. OMG. Have we descended to Avezzano levels? I hope CGA is better than that!
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Post by jdogge on Oct 6, 2017 20:11:51 GMT -8
Ok, now you're just being dense. When you actually learn something about how bureaucracies operate and to decipher administrative language, we can continue this conversation. I am not sure why this conversation is even a conversation. Gary Andersen's contract, which is just a google away, clearly states he is expected to represent OSU with professionalism and integrity. The contract has a several page long code of ethics he expected to follow. The contract also clearly states he is expected to comply with all university policies as well. He is an employee of Oregon State University after all. He is faculty. He does not exist outside the university in any capacity whatsoever. he is a PERS eligible university employee that must follow Oregon law, Oregon State University policy and NCAA regulations. His contract also states, that he is to, to the best of his ability, ensure that his assistant coaches follow the same expectations. He is responsible for his assistant coaches behavior. If Anderpants was aware of behavior that reflected poorly on OSU and did not act... he'd be in a world of hurt. The nebulous "with professionalism and integrity" is a generalized category for "don't embarrass this university with your behavior" If such rumors were to be true, Oregon State would absolutely have every reason to fire Andersen with cause. Andersen would have every opportunity to attempt to file suit to claim it was not with cause. Both parties would mediate... but if they got in a court room and drunken parties and banging co eds was the topic, I am not sure how much success he is going to have. Can we put a fork in this one? Now that someone referenced his contract, I'm good with the fork.
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Post by jefframp on Oct 9, 2017 12:12:48 GMT -8
Just for fun I thought I would bump this thread up.
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