|
Post by kvgeorge on Jan 20, 2016 21:47:52 GMT -8
I love the talent on this team.
The question remains who is going to take the next step to become the leader?
Who can get you the points? Who is going to get that extra rebound, steal, or block?
Who is going to step up to exert their will against their opponent?
The Pac has learned, stop GPII force someone else to beat you. So far no one has accepted the challenge.
No doubt we have better talent that in the past but to take the next step someone is going to have to become "The Man".
|
|
|
Post by treasurevalleybeav on Jan 20, 2016 21:57:03 GMT -8
Spot on. Talent isn't the issue. Focus and fundamentals are what was sure lacking tonight. Among several other things
|
|
|
Post by beaverdreams on Jan 20, 2016 21:59:13 GMT -8
Maybe...i don't know.....UCLA looks way more talented than us. We may have overrated the talent on this team.....the youth at least, is an issue. And Duvivier....I'm sorry...he's killing us.
|
|
|
Post by treasurevalleybeav on Jan 20, 2016 22:03:39 GMT -8
They had all of TWO players killing us and neither is the complete player GP2 is. We have other players capable of doing a lot more than they did today
|
|
|
Post by gzrbvr on Jan 20, 2016 22:09:08 GMT -8
Somewhat agree, but a different slant. More like, become a team and think more about winning than getting on Sportscenter. I think highly of Eubanks, but that breakaway clank on attempted dunk a couple games ago was brutal. Get the game in hand and then show off. We get up on people and fail to step on their throat.
There are a lot of "amateur" moves on this team. These guys have been so superior their whole lives that they have not learned how to win consistently. I am constantly amazed at the failure to use the backboard on layins. It simply is the case that it is quicker (in most cases) to use the backboard. The shot takes less time to reach "goaltending" status, it can be shot harder, it does not have to reach a higher level before it can be released therefore reducing the chance of blocks.
And, don't get me started on the increasing use of the drop pass which seems to be increasing in frequency. Last game, one was dropped and was ripe for the picking. It just shows that this team doesn't realize how important it is to value every possession. When they decide they want to play to win, they will all step up, not one more guy. Until that happens, we have an average struggling team, inconsistently playing games, not winning games.
GZR
|
|
|
Post by eugenedave on Jan 21, 2016 0:21:26 GMT -8
Tonight was the first time I've been to Gill this season to see them play. They came out flat, got in foul trouble very early (GPII with two personals in under three minutes), couldn't shoot FT's to save their life (with GPII and one other guy whose name I've forgotten the exception), couldn't execute the fast break, took way too many 3's, and really disappointed me with their overall performance.
It's going to be a long damned P-12 season if they keep playing this way, and they can forget about making the NCAA. #10 from UCLA killed us all night long. I got tired of him making shot after shot. He was aggressive under the rim, and we could not stop him. Maybe he's NBA material, that's why he looked so good out there?
What do the rest of you think?
|
|
|
Post by kvgeorge on Jan 21, 2016 6:29:45 GMT -8
gzrbvr: your post makes my point exactly. Everything you say is a hallmark of young, inexperienced players. By inexperienced I mean at Div1 PAC 12 level.
|
|
|
Post by beaverstever on Jan 21, 2016 13:14:22 GMT -8
UCLA's starters are easily more talented than OSU's. They probably have 4 guys that will make NBA rosters soon. However, they are not a deep team, and haven't been very committed to defense. Fortunately for them, they didn't need to be last night due to our shot selection and accuracy.
|
|
|
Post by gotbeaver on Jan 21, 2016 13:33:14 GMT -8
I love the talent on this team. The question remains who is going to take the next step to become the leader? Who can get you the points? Who is going to get that extra rebound, steal, or block? Who is going to step up to exert their will against their opponent? The Pac has learned, stop GPII force someone else to beat you. So far no one has accepted the challenge. No doubt we have better talent that in the past but to take the next step someone is going to have to become "The Man". I beg to differ. Tinkle has stepped up on a consistent basis. We need more than 1 person.
|
|
|
Post by mountainbeaver on Jan 21, 2016 14:16:32 GMT -8
Tonight was the first time I've been to Gill this season to see them play. They came out flat, got in foul trouble very early (GPII with two personals in under three minutes), couldn't shoot FT's to save their life (with GPII and one other guy whose name I've forgotten the exception), couldn't execute the fast break, took way too many 3's, and really disappointed me with their overall performance. It's going to be a long damned P-12 season if they keep playing this way, and they can forget about making the NCAA. #10 from UCLA killed us all night long. I got tired of him making shot after shot. He was aggressive under the rim, and we could not stop him. Maybe he's NBA material, that's why he looked so good out there? What do the rest of you think? I was in the same boat as you were coming up from Southern Oregon for the game. Thought both teams looked flat early on. I think we match up fine with teams on the perimeter but really have issues with other teams big men. Right now we have no real threat to score in the paint and it makes us one dimensional. I was also surprised watching the game live how differently games are being called this year with respect to hand checking. I think this has made us much less effective on the defensive end and we haven't adjusted particularly well to rule changes. I'm not sure I like the ticky tackiness of calls but there appears to be more scoring as a result. I don't think we're going to be a tournament team until we get some paint scoring and better rebounding.I like our young team going forward particularly after our frosh get stronger and more experienced. But right now we won't win grinder games like this one when our bigs are foul machines and no threat to score. I still think we're going to win a fair number of games with this group this year, but they won't come easily. NIT is more likely in my opinion, and the show is a long shot at best given the parity in the pac 12.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 21, 2016 15:48:24 GMT -8
Tonight was the first time I've been to Gill this season to see them play. They came out flat, got in foul trouble very early (GPII with two personals in under three minutes), couldn't shoot FT's to save their life (with GPII and one other guy whose name I've forgotten the exception), couldn't execute the fast break, took way too many 3's, and really disappointed me with their overall performance. It's going to be a long damned P-12 season if they keep playing this way, and they can forget about making the NCAA. #10 from UCLA killed us all night long. I got tired of him making shot after shot. He was aggressive under the rim, and we could not stop him. Maybe he's NBA material, that's why he looked so good out there? What do the rest of you think? I was in the same boat as you were coming up from Southern Oregon for the game. Thought both teams looked flat early on. I think we match up fine with teams on the perimeter but really have issues with other teams big men. Right now we have no real threat to score in the paint and it makes us one dimensional. I was also surprised watching the game live how differently games are being called this year with respect to hand checking. I think this has made us much less effective on the defensive end and we haven't adjusted particularly well to rule changes. I'm not sure I like the ticky tackiness of calls but there appears to be more scoring as a result. I don't think we're going to be a tournament team until we get some paint scoring and better rebounding.I like our young team going forward particularly after our frosh get stronger and more experienced. But right now we won't win grinder games like this one when our bigs are foul machines and no threat to score. I still think we're going to win a fair number of games with this group this year, but they won't come easily. NIT is more likely in my opinion, and the show is a long shot at best given the parity in the pac 12. I do not have the concrete data to back this up, from being at games/watching away games... points in the paint and lack of interior offense/defense is a huge issue. HOWEVER, I believe teams actually score more in the paint with their outside penetration because of porous outer defense/rotations than pure post defense. Combine that with terrible defensive rebounding, a lot of the interior initiated points in the paint are offensive put backs. There are several possessions each game (fewer lately) where teams get 2, 3, 4, even 5 attempts. We are simply not fun to watch on defense. We play multiple mediocre defenses and have mastered none (remind you of anything else?). At times we are highly effective... engaged/focused and communicate. We just can not maintain it. Call it young, regression, unwillingness of the younger guys to sell out, communication, all of the above... we are simply not a good defensive team. When we are, we are a good offensive team. We can not give up 65 or so a game and think we will win many in this league. One of the reasons I give for our performance at the line... lack of focus spills over in free throw shooting... we have better form shooters than we show in our free throws. Good form is not difficult to master if practiced with focus... "practice does not make perfect, perfect practice does"... we just seem to have the attention span/focus of a field mouse at times.
|
|
|
Post by gzrbvr on Jan 21, 2016 19:37:34 GMT -8
gzrbvr: your post makes my point exactly. Everything you say is a hallmark of young, inexperienced players. By inexperienced I mean at Div1 PAC 12 level. I was agreeing with you, but I haven't learned to add comments a post yet. All the inexperience is not limited to the rooks by the way--
|
|
|
Post by mountainbeaver on Jan 22, 2016 8:09:38 GMT -8
I was in the same boat as you were coming up from Southern Oregon for the game. Thought both teams looked flat early on. I think we match up fine with teams on the perimeter but really have issues with other teams big men. Right now we have no real threat to score in the paint and it makes us one dimensional. I was also surprised watching the game live how differently games are being called this year with respect to hand checking. I think this has made us much less effective on the defensive end and we haven't adjusted particularly well to rule changes. I'm not sure I like the ticky tackiness of calls but there appears to be more scoring as a result. I don't think we're going to be a tournament team until we get some paint scoring and better rebounding.I like our young team going forward particularly after our frosh get stronger and more experienced. But right now we won't win grinder games like this one when our bigs are foul machines and no threat to score. I still think we're going to win a fair number of games with this group this year, but they won't come easily. NIT is more likely in my opinion, and the show is a long shot at best given the parity in the pac 12. I do not have the concrete data to back this up, from being at games/watching away games... points in the paint and lack of interior offense/defense is a huge issue. HOWEVER, I believe teams actually score more in the paint with their outside penetration because of porous outer defense/rotations than pure post defense. Combine that with terrible defensive rebounding, a lot of the interior initiated points in the paint are offensive put backs. There are several possessions each game (fewer lately) where teams get 2, 3, 4, even 5 attempts. We are simply not fun to watch on defense. We play multiple mediocre defenses and have mastered none (remind you of anything else?). At times we are highly effective... engaged/focused and communicate. We just can not maintain it. Call it young, regression, unwillingness of the younger guys to sell out, communication, all of the above... we are simply not a good defensive team. When we are, we are a good offensive team. We can not give up 65 or so a game and think we will win many in this league. One of the reasons I give for our performance at the line... lack of focus spills over in free throw shooting... we have better form shooters than we show in our free throws. Good form is not difficult to master if practiced with focus... "practice does not make perfect, perfect practice does"... we just seem to have the attention span/focus of a field mouse at times.
|
|
|
Post by mountainbeaver on Jan 22, 2016 8:18:15 GMT -8
I think you're quite right about penetrations- however I saw 2-3 times in the game Wednesday where we had great penetration that drew defenders and our bigs weren't even looking for the dish-the ball hit the floor and was eventually grabbed be a defender. That happens when you don't have a mindset to score. Way too many blown opportunities. I'm not sure if the poor free throw shooting was lack of concentration, or just being way out of rhythm offensively, but that's an area we've got to clean up. I think ucla's length bothered us inside a lot.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 22, 2016 8:47:31 GMT -8
I think you're quite right about penetrations- however I saw 2-3 times in the game Wednesday where we had great penetration that drew defenders and our bigs weren't even looking for the dish-the ball hit the floor and was eventually grabbed be a defender. That happens when you don't have a mindset to score. Way too many blown opportunities. I'm not sure if the poor free throw shooting was lack of concentration, or just being way out of rhythm offensively, but that's an area we've got to clean up. I think ucla's length bothered us inside a lot. Agree... and we as fans need to realize as we "learn to win" again... not get too hyped over a recruit/recruiting class #'s. For the most part players are evaluated by folks who have never seen them play in person (or at least more than once) or the level of competition they play against. On top of that each kid transitions to college/athletics differently. As I have said before, great beginning for a 1st recruiting class, but they need to continue and get better in terms of being D1 ready for 'prime time', whether HS or JC. The biggest improvement our frosh will make this year is getting acclimated to D1/Pac 12 play... then the rest will come from there.
|
|