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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 8:38:42 GMT -8
That's absurd. By no objective manner do we have better talent than CAL. Just about every post by ee1990 is absurd. SaveSavei noticed that too. Beavermobile would have banged that gong by now.
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Post by ag87 on Sept 17, 2017 8:44:26 GMT -8
Is there a "bang the gong" button somewhere on this site? Glove, maybe you can get one of your interns to create that?
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Post by TheGlove on Sept 17, 2017 9:07:28 GMT -8
Is there a "bang the gong" button somewhere on this site? Glove, maybe you can get one of your interns to create that? let me check with @benevalontdictator to see if that's doable.
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Post by korculabeav on Sept 17, 2017 9:26:04 GMT -8
too late to get Wilcox what about Jonathan Smith? Andersen has to go now, and I foolishly defended him last week. Again, NO on JS...for now! He has not done enough yet to prove he is HC material. I hope that he can be but...someday in the future, not now. Yes, he had a great season last year as the Fusky OC but that was after CP hired Tedford as an offensive consultant in the background. Now JS is back on his own and the season looks promising again. Needs to show a consistent streak of success in that position before he is considered here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 11:21:30 GMT -8
too late to get Wilcox what about Jonathan Smith? Andersen has to go now, and I foolishly defended him last week. Again, NO on JS...for now! He has not done enough yet to prove he is HC material. I hope that he can be but...someday in the future, not now. Yes, he had a great season last year as the Fusky OC but that was after CP hired Tedford as an offensive consultant in the background. Now JS is back on his own and the season looks promising again. Needs to show a consistent streak of success in that position before he is considered here. I don't necessarily want JS but that is absurd. Sorry but it is. He has been coaching since 2002, been an OC for 5 of those years. If you don't think he is ready now than he will never be ready. Sometimes you have to be forward thinking and take a risk. This isn't specific to JS but if you want a creative dynamic mind as a HC at OSU you are probably going to have to hire someone who isn't 100% proven. That is just reality. I remember listening to the same gripe when Riley left about Baldwin (hasn't proven it at FBS level) and even Justin Wilcox (needs to be a HC at a lower level school first); while the "proven" guy they hired is garbage. If JS has the charisma to recruit and the mind to be a HC he has it now after 15 years of coaching; another 2-3 years aren't gonna make him any more likely to succeed. 15 years is plenty of experience.
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Post by gobeavs92 on Sept 17, 2017 11:32:26 GMT -8
Again, NO on JS...for now! He has not done enough yet to prove he is HC material. I hope that he can be but...someday in the future, not now. Yes, he had a great season last year as the Fusky OC but that was after CP hired Tedford as an offensive consultant in the background. Now JS is back on his own and the season looks promising again. Needs to show a consistent streak of success in that position before he is considered here. I don't necessarily want JS but that is absurd. Sorry but it is. He has been coaching since 2002, been an OC for 5 of those years. If you don't think he is ready now than he will never be ready. Sometimes you have to be forward thinking and take a risk. Again, this is specific to JS but if you want a creative dynamic mind as a HC at OSU you are probably going to have to hire someone who isn't 100% proven. That is just reality. I remember listening to the same gripe when Riley left about Baldwin (hasn't proven it at FBS level) and even Justin Wilcox (needs to be a HC at a lower level school first); while the "proven" guy they hired is garbage. If JS has the charisma to recruit and the mind to be a HC he has it now after 15 years of coaching; another 2-3 years aren't gonna make him any more likely to succeed. 15 years is plenty of experience. You're familiar with the "exception not the rule" right?! Let's pump the brakes a little on how good Wilcox is as a head coach. Yes h definitely has shown improvement but we have yet to see how he responds with major adversity. Cal has had some good things roll their way so far for the most part. I'm still not completely sold on how good NC or Ole Miss truly is though! If they continue to win games in the PAC 12, then there will be something to talk about. For now, he has improved the team but that doesn't make him a top tier HC already! As far as JS is concerned, he needs more time and should be an HC at a smaller school first. The only fashion that I think he should come here is to be a coordinator. Like Beau Baldwin did for Cal! It takes time to develop relationships in recruiting, figurig out how to run the entire program, deal with parents and boosters. That's the thing about coaching at any level! It's more than just the "coaching" aspect of the job! Go Beavs!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 11:46:26 GMT -8
I don't necessarily want JS but that is absurd. Sorry but it is. He has been coaching since 2002, been an OC for 5 of those years. If you don't think he is ready now than he will never be ready. Sometimes you have to be forward thinking and take a risk. Again, this is specific to JS but if you want a creative dynamic mind as a HC at OSU you are probably going to have to hire someone who isn't 100% proven. That is just reality. I remember listening to the same gripe when Riley left about Baldwin (hasn't proven it at FBS level) and even Justin Wilcox (needs to be a HC at a lower level school first); while the "proven" guy they hired is garbage. If JS has the charisma to recruit and the mind to be a HC he has it now after 15 years of coaching; another 2-3 years aren't gonna make him any more likely to succeed. 15 years is plenty of experience. You're familiar with the "exception not the rule" right?! Let's pump the brakes a little on how good Wilcox is as a head coach. Yes h definitely has shown improvement but we have yet to see how he responds with major adversity. Cal has had some good things roll their way so far for the most part. I'm still not completely sold on how good NC or Ole Miss truly is though! If they continue to win games in the PAC 12, then there will be something to talk about. For now, he has improved the team but that doesn't make him a top tier HC already! As far as JS is concerned, he needs more time and should be an HC at a smaller school first. The only fashion that I think he should come here is to be a coordinator. Like Beau Baldwin did for Cal! It takes time to develop relationships in recruiting, figurig out how to run the entire program, deal with parents and boosters. That's the thing about coaching at any level! It's more than just the "coaching" aspect of the job! Go Beavs! Never said Wilcox was clearly awesome but your "he needs to be a head coach at a smaller school first" philosophy is silly in my view. You are entitled to that opinion but I just don't agree. You bring up Baldwin at Cal who has the same job JS has now and gave up being the HC at a smaller school. So which is it? Does JS have to be a HC at a smaller school (which to you appears to have not been enough for Baldwin to be ready?) or does he need to be an OC at a major school (already is)? Why would he need to be the OC at OSU first? UW recruits the same areas OSU recruits so he likely has any connections he'd get at OSU as OC already. Sorry but I think OSU fans are far too risk averse. PJ Fleck was never more than a WR coach (in the NFL not even college) and seems to know how to run a program. Kliff Kingsbury was an OC alone for only 1 year at A&M and only had 5 years of coaching experience and is holding is own at Texas Tech (not dominating but hardly an embarrassment), Oklahoma (national power Oklahoma) handed the reigns to a guy with a similar amount of coaching experience as JS. There are more "exceptions to the rule" than I can list right now. Either JS has it now or he likely will never have it (same with Wilcox and Baldwin).
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Post by gobeavs92 on Sept 17, 2017 12:03:01 GMT -8
Well Fleck went to Western Michigan which is a small school and he actually turned it around and because of that, earned his way to a Power 5 school. I think the problem with just bringing in a guy like J Smith here, is that many fans want it because he is an alum. Why not a guy like D Nussmeier? He's been a high profile coordinator for a couple schools, has NW ties and is an offensive mind? So you're saying JS couldn't get any better or get better experience and he's as good as he's ever going to be? That's a little presumptuous don't ya think?
A HC job is far different than a coordinator job. Right now, JS puts together game plans (strictly on offense) and has some help and input from GAs and other position coaches and that's it! A HC has to not only oversee the whole program but, deal with boosters, parents, the media, recruiting and others! It would be great (IMO) if JS got his feet wet in a smaller program taking care of those administrative duties (that would drastically increase at a bigger school). Not many people jump right into their career for life right of school. Same scenario.
Ask yourself. Do you want JS because he's a former Beaver great or because objectively, you feel he's the right guy, right now for the job?
Let's be honest too. CGA is most likely not going to let go of anytime soon.
Go Beavs!
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 17, 2017 12:05:37 GMT -8
OSU has hired a couple of former bigtime coordinators...Fertig and Avezzano come to mind.
Frankly it can be a crap shoot no matter who you hire.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 12:11:04 GMT -8
Well Fleck went to Western Michigan which is a small school and he actually turned it around and because of that, earned his way to a Power 5 school. I think the problem with just bringing in a guy like J Smith here, is that many fans want it because he is an alum. Why not a guy like D Nussmeier? He's been a high profile coordinator for a couple schools, has NW ties and is an offensive mind? So you're saying JS couldn't get any better or get better experience and he's as good as he's ever going to be? That's a little presumptuous don't ya think? A HC job is far different than a coordinator job. Right now, JS puts together game plans (strictly on offense) and has some help and input from GAs and other position coaches and that's it! A HC has to not only oversee the whole program but, deal with boosters, parents, the media, recruiting and others! It would be great (IMO) if JS got his feet wet in a smaller program taking care of those administrative duties (that would drastically increase at a bigger school). Not many people jump right into their career for life right of school. Same scenario. Ask yourself. Do you want JS because he's a former Beaver great or because objectively, you feel he's the right guy, right now for the job? Let's be honest too. CGA is most likely not going to let go of anytime soon. Go Beavs! Lets be quite clear; I NEVER at any time said I wanted JS. I was quite specific that I was talking about the perception that a guy with JS's resume isn't yet ready. I wanted and still want Beau Baldwin; that is the guy I would have hired when Andersen got the job and its still the guy I'd hire right now. I believe the "he isn't ready; needs to do _________ first" perception has likely cost OSU Baldwin (who will get a job somewhere in 2018 while we are stuck with Andersen's contract) and I don't want that to happen again. That said, if JS isn't the right guy for the job right now today, he won't be the right guy for the job in 5 years, 10 years, or 30 years. Can JS get better? Sure but frankly not all that much. After 15 years of coaching he is either ready to be a HC or he isn't. And I don't think he needs to go be a head coach at New Mexico to be anymore ready to be the HC at OSU. I don't think PJ Fleck needed to go to Western Michigan, that just happened to be the job he was offered. I don't think the years spent there make him anymore or less likely to succeed in the Big Ten; if Minnesota was his first HC gig after spending a few years as a coordinator somewhere he'd be just as likely to succeed in my opinion. You bring up this idea of "earning" your way to a power 5 school, that is different than being "ready". I don't need to see a guy "earn" his way if he is already ready. I'd prefer to get ahead of the curve and just get that guy now.
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Post by sagebrush on Sept 17, 2017 12:13:30 GMT -8
You just cannot be afraid to fail. And, you cannot get paralysis by analysis. Like going to the bullpen, better to move too early than too late.
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Post by gobeavs92 on Sept 17, 2017 13:25:37 GMT -8
Well Fleck went to Western Michigan which is a small school and he actually turned it around and because of that, earned his way to a Power 5 school. I think the problem with just bringing in a guy like J Smith here, is that many fans want it because he is an alum. Why not a guy like D Nussmeier? He's been a high profile coordinator for a couple schools, has NW ties and is an offensive mind? So you're saying JS couldn't get any better or get better experience and he's as good as he's ever going to be? That's a little presumptuous don't ya think? A HC job is far different than a coordinator job. Right now, JS puts together game plans (strictly on offense) and has some help and input from GAs and other position coaches and that's it! A HC has to not only oversee the whole program but, deal with boosters, parents, the media, recruiting and others! It would be great (IMO) if JS got his feet wet in a smaller program taking care of those administrative duties (that would drastically increase at a bigger school). Not many people jump right into their career for life right of school. Same scenario. Ask yourself. Do you want JS because he's a former Beaver great or because objectively, you feel he's the right guy, right now for the job? Let's be honest too. CGA is most likely not going to let go of anytime soon. Go Beavs! Lets be quite clear; I NEVER at any time said I wanted JS. I was quite specific that I was talking about the perception that a guy with JS's resume isn't yet ready. I wanted and still want Beau Baldwin; that is the guy I would have hired when Andersen got the job and its still the guy I'd hire right now. I believe the "he isn't ready; needs to do _________ first" perception has likely cost OSU Baldwin (who will get a job somewhere in 2018 while we are stuck with Andersen's contract) and I don't want that to happen again. That said, if JS isn't the right guy for the job right now today, he won't be the right guy for the job in 5 years, 10 years, or 30 years. Can JS get better? Sure but frankly not all that much. After 15 years of coaching he is either ready to be a HC or he isn't. And I don't think he needs to go be a head coach at New Mexico to be anymore ready to be the HC at OSU. I don't think PJ Fleck needed to go to Western Michigan, that just happened to be the job he was offered. I don't think the years spent there make him anymore or less likely to succeed in the Big Ten; if Minnesota was his first HC gig after spending a few years as a coordinator somewhere he'd be just as likely to succeed in my opinion. You bring up this idea of "earning" your way to a power 5 school, that is different than being "ready". I don't need to see a guy "earn" his way if he is already ready. I'd prefer to get ahead of the curve and just get that guy now. Ok, so quick question; Jeff Tedford was the first person showing major interest right after the Beaver HC job was available. Knowing that, would you still want a guy like Baldwin or Tedford? Go Beavs!
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Post by beavsaregood on Sept 17, 2017 13:54:12 GMT -8
i'll take tedford or baldwin or niner over chief anderpants.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 14:03:57 GMT -8
Lets be quite clear; I NEVER at any time said I wanted JS. I was quite specific that I was talking about the perception that a guy with JS's resume isn't yet ready. I wanted and still want Beau Baldwin; that is the guy I would have hired when Andersen got the job and its still the guy I'd hire right now. I believe the "he isn't ready; needs to do _________ first" perception has likely cost OSU Baldwin (who will get a job somewhere in 2018 while we are stuck with Andersen's contract) and I don't want that to happen again. That said, if JS isn't the right guy for the job right now today, he won't be the right guy for the job in 5 years, 10 years, or 30 years. Can JS get better? Sure but frankly not all that much. After 15 years of coaching he is either ready to be a HC or he isn't. And I don't think he needs to go be a head coach at New Mexico to be anymore ready to be the HC at OSU. I don't think PJ Fleck needed to go to Western Michigan, that just happened to be the job he was offered. I don't think the years spent there make him anymore or less likely to succeed in the Big Ten; if Minnesota was his first HC gig after spending a few years as a coordinator somewhere he'd be just as likely to succeed in my opinion. You bring up this idea of "earning" your way to a power 5 school, that is different than being "ready". I don't need to see a guy "earn" his way if he is already ready. I'd prefer to get ahead of the curve and just get that guy now. Ok, so quick question; Jeff Tedford was the first person showing major interest right after the Beaver HC job was available. Knowing that, would you still want a guy like Baldwin or Tedford? Go Beavs! I am aware of Tedford's interest. I wanted Baldwin. Would have hired Tedford over Andersen though. Andersen never excited me. The only way I'd even consider hiring a head coach with a defensive background is if I believed they had a dominant defensive system they would install (Andersen did NOT have this) AND I knew they were opening to hiring someone to run the offense that isn't someone just following them around (Andersen clearly wasn't gonna do that either). But at the end of the day, I would have hired Baldwin. I'll take a hungry up and coming coach who hasn't had a major job yet over a guy who is on the downhill side of their coaching career and already had their major job in almost every realistic hiring situation for OSU. I met Baldwin about 10 years ago at a BBQ and had some football related discussions with him (I was coaching high school at the time and a family member was a strength and conditioning coach a Central Washington when he was there); was very impressed with him. Nothing has changed my mind in the last decade. He would succeed at OSU.
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Post by korculabeav on Sept 17, 2017 14:06:24 GMT -8
I'll take a hungry up and coming coach who hasn't had a major job yet over a guy who is on the downhill side of their coaching career and already had their major job in almost every realistic hiring situation for OSU. That right there is the most valid point in looking for a new coach!
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