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Post by cpobeav on Aug 26, 2017 20:44:25 GMT -8
You're not ignorant at all. WHY do we have such a hard time being an upper tier PAC 12 team? Why did we have a hard time being an upper tier PAC 8/10 team? The university (OSU) or the town (little, bitty Corvallis) HAS to be be part of the blame/reason. No? I'm fascinated by folks who think we should recruit on par with UW...USC...UCLA...ASU...etc. What is your TAKE on the WHY? Thanks Nobody is giving you a real answer to a good question. First of all, I do think Corvallis is to blame. Lets cut straight to the heart of the matter, it is tough to recruit quality So-Cal and big city kids to sleepy cornvally, a city that doesn't even have a shopping mall, little to no retail scene that appeals to college aged kids, zero night life and basically no entertainment. That is the city by design. It is a town entirely driven by aging Oregon State professors, and at one time, HP engineers. heavily liberal and yuppie in essence for years. Coffee shops and gluten free bakeries are what are desirable there. And that is perfectly fine... unless of course you are trying to appeal to 18 year old football players. So we immediately have a large roadblock to overcome. Corvallis is the most middle aged white dad of a town I have ever seen. T-shirt tucked into khaki shorts and socks and sandals with a fanny pack level of middle aged white dad town. Next road block is the fact that historically we did battle with WSU for the smallest recruiting budget in the Pac. We spend less than half what Oregon spends on recruiting. Overall budget is also among the low end in the Pac, our facility situation is on the low end of the Pac. we have one of the smallest stadiums, and one that is half built. until this year our locker rooms were an embarrassment. Even with the recent updates, they are somewhat... meh. Our branding is not great, our marketing has been pathetic for years. We started toying around too much a look and most of the time they have fell flat. You add it all up, and from the outside looking in... Oregon State is meh. We really need to step up on a whole lot of fronts. You've pretty much got this thing figured out. I would love to tell you you're wrong, but you're not.it's giving me a headache right now, telling people what they don't want to hear. Again, folks, welcome to a long run of meh. It is a simple reality, and I will never forgive you loudmouths that ran a good man out of town. I thought Beaver fans were better than that, but, unfortunately, we're no different than Duck fans.
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Post by ag87 on Aug 26, 2017 21:00:38 GMT -8
I don't think recruiting is our biggest problem; or at least for the last 20 years. We were in the top half of the league from 1999 to 2012. Now we are not. We sucked from 1971 to 1998 because of neglect. Neglect may have even been the culprit or at least a major contributor in 2013 and 2014. Now we are either being hurt by inertia or poor coaching.
To finish my thought, the level of recruits are not significantly different from schools #5 through #11 in our conference. I look at it like a blow-up of the far right side of a bell curve. The outliers, the guys whose place on a bell curve is where it nearly touches the x-axis, go to USC or the hot school of the day. I don't believe the difference between a guy who is at 99.2% and 99.5% on that curve matters.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 26, 2017 21:02:01 GMT -8
I haven't been this disappointed in a loss since the sac state debacle....AND...that's sayin' something! I'm too old (and stooopid) to give up on the entire season over one loss, but... this one has me wondering just what, in hell they've been doing the whole summer. Execution--F. Effort---D-. Preparation--F. Play calling--F- (if that's even possible). Tackling--D. Overall "D"--F-. Special teams--C (?). Conditioning/Strength (apparently a substantive item of real PROGRESS)--D-. Coaching------Any guesses? I know a guy, who knows a bunch of the parents, so take what I know with a grain of salt. However, I have heard that a large swath of the players really don't like CGA. He is not a players' coach to start with, but they are very angry about how he handled El Dio, Mageo, and now McMaryion. The players are not going to stay loyal to a coach, who is not loyal to his players. This is particularly true, when the ex-players seem to be more talented than the players that replace them. This team suffers from a real lack of on-the field leadership and CGA running off team leaders has not helped things one iota. The defensive backfield looked outmatched, which should never happen against Colorado State. The defensive backfield looks like a huge work in progress. There were times, when the Beavers had eight in the box and the Rams were still able to find daylight. Ridiculous. The front 7 looked better than most of last year but is not where they need to be to stay competitive with Washington, USC, and Stanford. Offensive preparation and play-calling was bad. Oregon State looked like a glorified high school team on offense. Nall is a monster and averaged 8.1 yards per touch, but he only had 18 touches? Instead we squandered touches on Tyner, who does not look like he is quite back up-to-speed. Togiai looks like he has a ton of upside, but he is not there yet either. I was watching the game thinking that a ton of ex-Oregon coaches are looking for work and that CGA should think about calling them up and collecting references. Outside of Nall, the offense is bad. Luton is not an upgrade over McMaryion and appears to be a downgrade. Luton may have upside, but he seems like he is still wrapping his mind around the offense or is still trying to adjust to the speed of a decent defense. Either way, I have PTSD (Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder) thinking about what the Washingtons and USCs of the conference are going to do to Luton. McMaryion should have started that game. Oregon State loses by 21 points tops. This team has a ton of work over the next two weeks to prepare for Minnesota. I am also concerned that, if CGA is not careful, he could completely lose this team in short order.
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Post by lebaneaver on Aug 26, 2017 21:10:00 GMT -8
Disconcerting. Very.
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Post by abureid on Aug 26, 2017 21:27:30 GMT -8
I still don't understand why we didn't run the ball more. We have talented and physical runners and a new QB... I may not be a college level coach, but I can see that RB is a strength and QB is an unknown.
As for the OLine, running the ball is all about attitude for the players and patience with the coaches.
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Post by freddiekruger on Aug 26, 2017 21:28:47 GMT -8
You're not ignorant at all. WHY do we have such a hard time being an upper tier PAC 12 team? Why did we have a hard time being an upper tier PAC 8/10 team? The university (OSU) or the town (little, bitty Corvallis) HAS to be be part of the blame/reason. No? I'm fascinated by folks who think we should recruit on par with UW...USC...UCLA...ASU...etc. What is your TAKE on the WHY? Thanks Nobody is giving you a real answer to a good question. First of all, I do think Corvallis is to blame. Lets cut straight to the heart of the matter, it is tough to recruit quality So-Cal and big city kids to sleepy cornvally, a city that doesn't even have a shopping mall, little to no retail scene that appeals to college aged kids, zero night life and basically no entertainment. That is the city by design. It is a town entirely driven by aging Oregon State professors, and at one time, HP engineers. heavily liberal and yuppie in essence for years. Coffee shops and gluten free bakeries are what are desirable there. And that is perfectly fine... unless of course you are trying to appeal to 18 year old football players. So we immediately have a large roadblock to overcome. Corvallis is the most middle aged white dad of a town I have ever seen. T-shirt tucked into khaki shorts and socks and sandals with a fanny pack level of middle aged white dad town. Next road block is the fact that historically we did battle with WSU for the smallest recruiting budget in the Pac. We spend less than half what Oregon spends on recruiting. Overall budget is also among the low end in the Pac, our facility situation is on the low end of the Pac. we have one of the smallest stadiums, and one that is half built. until this year our locker rooms were an embarrassment. Even with the recent updates, they are somewhat... meh. Our branding is not great, our marketing has been pathetic for years. We started toying around too much a look and most of the time they have fell flat. You add it all up, and from the outside looking in... Oregon State is meh. We really need to step up on a whole lot of fronts. Atown, You pretty much nailed it. Doesn't help that college sports in general are trending down. Smaller locations are going to get hit harder in that case. The whole solution is hard to see right now.
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Post by mbabeav on Aug 26, 2017 21:59:18 GMT -8
Yes we have a problem recruiting to Corvallis and Oregon State but I think it's our inability or unwillingness to recruit quality coaching that has hurt us the most. We don't have to catch lightning in a bottle in recruiting as much as we have to get very lucky in who we sign to coach teams. Falling into Dennis Erickson after Riley left the first time and then getting Riley back were huge strokes of luck. But before that we have to look at Craig and Joe and Jerry. This is all on the administration. We got lucky with President Risser, it all flows from the very top.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 26, 2017 22:10:40 GMT -8
I haven't been this disappointed in a loss since the sac state debacle....AND...that's sayin' something! I'm too old (and stooopid) to give up on the entire season over one loss, but... this one has me wondering just what, in hell they've been doing the whole summer. Execution--F. Effort---D-. Preparation--F. Play calling--F- (if that's even possible). Tackling--D. Overall "D"--F-. Special teams--C (?). Conditioning/Strength (apparently a substantive item of real PROGRESS)--D-. Coaching------Any guesses? I know a guy, who knows a bunch of the parents, so take what I know with a grain of salt. However, I have heard that a large swath of the players really don't like CGA. He is not a players' coach to start with, but they are very angry about how he handled El Dio, Mageo, and now McMaryion. The players are not going to stay loyal to a coach, who is not loyal to his players. This is particularly true, when the ex-players seem to be more talented than the players that replace them. This team suffers from a real lack of on-the field leadership and CGA running off team leaders has not helped things one iota. The defensive backfield looked outmatched, which should never happen against Colorado State. The defensive backfield looks like a huge work in progress. There were times, when the Beavers had eight in the box and the Rams were still able to find daylight. Ridiculous. The front 7 looked better than most of last year but is not where they need to be to stay competitive with Washington, USC, and Stanford. Offensive preparation and play-calling was bad. Oregon State looked like a glorified high school team on offense. Nall is a monster and averaged 8.1 yards per touch, but he only had 18 touches? Instead we squandered touches on Tyner, who does not look like he is quite back up-to-speed. Togiai looks like he has a ton of upside, but he is not there yet either. I was watching the game thinking that a ton of ex-Oregon coaches are looking for work and that CGA should think about calling them up and collecting references. Outside of Nall, the offense is bad. Luton is not an upgrade over McMaryion and appears to be a downgrade. Luton may have upside, but he seems like he is still wrapping his mind around the offense or is still trying to adjust to the speed of a decent defense. Either way, I have PTSD (Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder) thinking about what the Washingtons and USCs of the conference are going to do to Luton. McMaryion should have started that game. Oregon State loses by 21 points tops. This team has a ton of work over the next two weeks to prepare for Minnesota. I am also concerned that, if CGA is not careful, he could completely lose this team in short order. I guess it kinda depends on how one defines "his players". This has been a tough transition. I'm hoping "the process" pays off at some point. In the meanwhile it'll be interesting to watch how the careers of the QBs you mentioned finish off. Both apparently have a real shot at starting this year for their respective schools.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 26, 2017 22:18:01 GMT -8
I know a guy, who knows a bunch of the parents, so take what I know with a grain of salt. However, I have heard that a large swath of the players really don't like CGA. He is not a players' coach to start with, but they are very angry about how he handled El Dio, Mageo, and now McMaryion. The players are not going to stay loyal to a coach, who is not loyal to his players. This is particularly true, when the ex-players seem to be more talented than the players that replace them. This team suffers from a real lack of on-the field leadership and CGA running off team leaders has not helped things one iota. The defensive backfield looked outmatched, which should never happen against Colorado State. The defensive backfield looks like a huge work in progress. There were times, when the Beavers had eight in the box and the Rams were still able to find daylight. Ridiculous. The front 7 looked better than most of last year but is not where they need to be to stay competitive with Washington, USC, and Stanford. Offensive preparation and play-calling was bad. Oregon State looked like a glorified high school team on offense. Nall is a monster and averaged 8.1 yards per touch, but he only had 18 touches? Instead we squandered touches on Tyner, who does not look like he is quite back up-to-speed. Togiai looks like he has a ton of upside, but he is not there yet either. I was watching the game thinking that a ton of ex-Oregon coaches are looking for work and that CGA should think about calling them up and collecting references. Outside of Nall, the offense is bad. Luton is not an upgrade over McMaryion and appears to be a downgrade. Luton may have upside, but he seems like he is still wrapping his mind around the offense or is still trying to adjust to the speed of a decent defense. Either way, I have PTSD (Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder) thinking about what the Washingtons and USCs of the conference are going to do to Luton. McMaryion should have started that game. Oregon State loses by 21 points tops. This team has a ton of work over the next two weeks to prepare for Minnesota. I am also concerned that, if CGA is not careful, he could completely lose this team in short order. I guess it kinda depends on how one defines "his players". This has been a tough transition. I'm hoping "the process" pays off at some point. In the meanwhile it'll be interesting to watch how the careers of the QBs you mentioned finish off. Both apparently have a real shot at starting this year for their respective schools. I have heard that the Riley holdovers really do not like him. However, I have heard that freshman feel about the same. No real sense of team. From watching the game, compared to Colorado State, Oregon State really looks like much less of a cohesive team. I am hoping that CGA can turn things around and quickly!
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Post by obf on Sept 5, 2017 8:32:37 GMT -8
I guess it kinda depends on how one defines "his players". This has been a tough transition. I'm hoping "the process" pays off at some point. In the meanwhile it'll be interesting to watch how the careers of the QBs you mentioned finish off. Both apparently have a real shot at starting this year for their respective schools. I have heard that the Riley holdovers really do not like him. However, I have heard that freshman feel about the same. No real sense of team. From watching the game, compared to Colorado State, Oregon State really looks like much less of a cohesive team. I am hoping that CGA can turn things around and quickly! Just got back from a long camping trip (well really two different ones) with no service so I am catching up on a LOT of threads... but had to respond to this one... I don't know any players, and I don't know any parents, the only guy I know who is even tangentially connected to the team is on the football staff, but not a coach. The feeling I get from him is that he and a lot of the other staff don't much care for CGA, either, and scratch their heads on some of his decisions, just like we do... I assume CGA and the other actual on field coaches are all on the same page, but this thing is falling apart... fast... If the gophers come in on saturday and row row row the boat all over the place, things are going to get nasty...
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Post by sctsbeaver on Sept 5, 2017 16:47:52 GMT -8
I haven't been this disappointed in a loss since the sac state debacle....AND...that's sayin' something! I'm too old (and stooopid) to give up on the entire season over one loss, but... this one has me wondering just what, in hell they've been doing the whole summer. Execution--F. Effort---D-. Preparation--F. Play calling--F- (if that's even possible). Tackling--D. Overall "D"--F-. Special teams--C (?). Conditioning/Strength (apparently a substantive item of real PROGRESS)--D-. Coaching------Any guesses? I know a guy, who knows a bunch of the parents, so take what I know with a grain of salt. However, I have heard that a large swath of the players really don't like CGA. He is not a players' coach to start with, but they are very angry about how he handled El Dio, Mageo, and now McMaryion. The players are not going to stay loyal to a coach, who is not loyal to his players. This is particularly true, when the ex-players seem to be more talented than the players that replace them. This team suffers from a real lack of on-the field leadership and CGA running off team leaders has not helped things one iota. The defensive backfield looked outmatched, which should never happen against Colorado State. The defensive backfield looks like a huge work in progress. There were times, when the Beavers had eight in the box and the Rams were still able to find daylight. Ridiculous. The front 7 looked better than most of last year but is not where they need to be to stay competitive with Washington, USC, and Stanford. Offensive preparation and play-calling was bad. Oregon State looked like a glorified high school team on offense. Nall is a monster and averaged 8.1 yards per touch, but he only had 18 touches? Instead we squandered touches on Tyner, who does not look like he is quite back up-to-speed. Togiai looks like he has a ton of upside, but he is not there yet either. I was watching the game thinking that a ton of ex-Oregon coaches are looking for work and that CGA should think about calling them up and collecting references. Outside of Nall, the offense is bad. Luton is not an upgrade over McMaryion and appears to be a downgrade. Luton may have upside, but he seems like he is still wrapping his mind around the offense or is still trying to adjust to the speed of a decent defense. Either way, I have PTSD (Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder) thinking about what the Washingtons and USCs of the conference are going to do to Luton. McMaryion should have started that game. Oregon State loses by 21 points tops. This team has a ton of work over the next two weeks to prepare for Minnesota. I am also concerned that, if CGA is not careful, he could completely lose this team in short order. This is exactly what I'm feeling and the biggest reason the direction of the Program is in a spiral. I've been around the block enough to know no matter how bad it is it can always get worse, that unfortunately is my prediction
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Post by spudbeaver on Sept 5, 2017 18:56:41 GMT -8
I haven't been this disappointed in a loss since the sac state debacle....AND...that's sayin' something! I'm too old (and stooopid) to give up on the entire season over one loss, but... this one has me wondering just what, in hell they've been doing the whole summer. Execution--F. Effort---D-. Preparation--F. Play calling--F- (if that's even possible). Tackling--D. Overall "D"--F-. Special teams--C (?). Conditioning/Strength (apparently a substantive item of real PROGRESS)--D-. Coaching------Any guesses? I know a guy, who knows a bunch of the parents, so take what I know with a grain of salt. However, I have heard that a large swath of the players really don't like CGA. He is not a players' coach to start with, but they are very angry about how he handled El Dio, Mageo, and now McMaryion. The players are not going to stay loyal to a coach, who is not loyal to his players. This is particularly true, when the ex-players seem to be more talented than the players that replace them. This team suffers from a real lack of on-the field leadership and CGA running off team leaders has not helped things one iota. The defensive backfield looked outmatched, which should never happen against Colorado State. The defensive backfield looks like a huge work in progress. There were times, when the Beavers had eight in the box and the Rams were still able to find daylight. Ridiculous. The front 7 looked better than most of last year but is not where they need to be to stay competitive with Washington, USC, and Stanford. Offensive preparation and play-calling was bad. Oregon State looked like a glorified high school team on offense. Nall is a monster and averaged 8.1 yards per touch, but he only had 18 touches? Instead we squandered touches on Tyner, who does not look like he is quite back up-to-speed. Togiai looks like he has a ton of upside, but he is not there yet either. I was watching the game thinking that a ton of ex-Oregon coaches are looking for work and that CGA should think about calling them up and collecting references. Outside of Nall, the offense is bad. Luton is not an upgrade over McMaryion and appears to be a downgrade. Luton may have upside, but he seems like he is still wrapping his mind around the offense or is still trying to adjust to the speed of a decent defense. Either way, I have PTSD (Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder) thinking about what the Washingtons and USCs of the conference are going to do to Luton. McMaryion should have started that game. Oregon State loses by 21 points tops. This team has a ton of work over the next two weeks to prepare for Minnesota. I am also concerned that, if CGA is not careful, he could completely lose this team in short order. [ "McMaryion should have started that game. Oregon State loses by 21 points tops." Gee, that would have been terrific! Or not.
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