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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 8, 2017 16:46:20 GMT -8
And... is that a good thing considering the level of play we've shown fundamentally? And with 7 Pac12 teams rated in the top 35-40 recruiting classes... none being us?? Top that with the talent UW has drawn, the facilities and $, what a talented new coach there could mean?! Do you mean the talent that UW has drawn that managed just one more conference win then we did? They managed that with what many people think to be the most talented freshman in the pac-12, yeah and we have no talent either. Hence my post saying if they use their $ to go out and bring a new... GOOD... coach.
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Post by bigskybeaver on Mar 8, 2017 17:31:55 GMT -8
Do you mean the talent that UW has drawn that managed just one more conference win then we did? They managed that with what many people think to be the most talented freshman in the pac-12, yeah and we have no talent either. Hence my post saying if they use their $ to go out and bring a new... GOOD... coach. Hence my post saying yeah and we have no talent either. Romar has been named coach of the year 3 times in the pac-12. I don't think he has forgotten how to coach. My point is that you say Tinkle can't recruit. Outside of Markelle Fultz I'd say we are on par with there talent level. We are the 4th youngest team in the country and our best player was injured for most of the year. Is Tinkle the right coach? I don't know but I think he gets a bit of a pass this year considering everything. He had a pretty good record at Montana and I don't think he's forgotten how to coach either. Eubanks is an honorable mention Pac-12 player. I watch almost every Beaver game. I haven't heard any announcer say a bad thing about him, most are glowing about his abilities. I have to come to this board to hear people talk about him not having any talent. At some point you need to realize this team was a work in progress this year and accept that or not. I guess patience to see someone or a team develop isn't something everyone has.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 9, 2017 8:30:43 GMT -8
Hence my post saying if they use their $ to go out and bring a new... GOOD... coach. Hence my post saying yeah and we have no talent either. Romar has been named coach of the year 3 times in the pac-12. I don't think he has forgotten how to coach. My point is that you say Tinkle can't recruit. Outside of Markelle Fultz I'd say we are on par with there talent level. We are the 4th youngest team in the country and our best player was injured for most of the year. Is Tinkle the right coach? I don't know but I think he gets a bit of a pass this year considering everything. He had a pretty good record at Montana and I don't think he's forgotten how to coach either. Eubanks is an honorable mention Pac-12 player. I watch almost every Beaver game. I haven't heard any announcer say a bad thing about him, most are glowing about his abilities. I have to come to this board to hear people talk about him not having any talent. At some point you need to realize this team was a work in progress this year and accept that or not. I guess patience to see someone or a team develop isn't something everyone has. The problem people have is they see teams like Kentucky or Duke totally reload every year with 3-5 brand new freshman and never skip a beat... But that is not reality for most of the rest of the 350 odd D-1 basketball schools. For most schools when you barely have a 7 person bench, a true freshman point guard and only one functioning returning starter after 6 games and only one other significant contributor from the previous season... well, things aren't going to go well.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 9, 2017 20:52:46 GMT -8
Hence my post saying if they use their $ to go out and bring a new... GOOD... coach. Hence my post saying yeah and we have no talent either. Romar has been named coach of the year 3 times in the pac-12. I don't think he has forgotten how to coach. My point is that you say Tinkle can't recruit. Outside of Markelle Fultz I'd say we are on par with there talent level. We are the 4th youngest team in the country and our best player was injured for most of the year. Is Tinkle the right coach? I don't know but I think he gets a bit of a pass this year considering everything. He had a pretty good record at Montana and I don't think he's forgotten how to coach either. Eubanks is an honorable mention Pac-12 player. I watch almost every Beaver game. I haven't heard any announcer say a bad thing about him, most are glowing about his abilities. I have to come to this board to hear people talk about him not having any talent. At some point you need to realize this team was a work in progress this year and accept that or not. I guess patience to see someone or a team develop isn't something everyone has. We've not come close at anytime to recruiting what Romar has. UW is supremely talented... we're not. For the last 3-4 years I'll let you go look at the number of draft picks. He's done nothing with everything. As for Drew, he's VERY limited player right now. He's not even dominate in his limited offensive skills let alone his mental fortitude. As for announcers, tell me one that states a player is average... or worse... ever. They all find positives/ strengths in each. It's their job. As for "patience" and "development"... most average D1 players/teams by the time the reach this level can... set a screen... use a screen... play help side D... not have to be yelled at what to do on most offensive possessions... etc. This isn't a develop team chemistry issue... this is lower tier Pac12 talent that is fundamentally unsound in multiple areas. As for the 4th youngest team... who's exactly responsible for that. Pretty sure every poster on here that follows hoops knew (class level of each team has been posted many times) the grads and roster issues... so did the staff. Hard to give someone a pass in terms of the roster they built. Injuries or not, this roster was rail thin.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 9, 2017 22:27:54 GMT -8
Hence my post saying yeah and we have no talent either. Romar has been named coach of the year 3 times in the pac-12. I don't think he has forgotten how to coach. My point is that you say Tinkle can't recruit. Outside of Markelle Fultz I'd say we are on par with there talent level. We are the 4th youngest team in the country and our best player was injured for most of the year. Is Tinkle the right coach? I don't know but I think he gets a bit of a pass this year considering everything. He had a pretty good record at Montana and I don't think he's forgotten how to coach either. Eubanks is an honorable mention Pac-12 player. I watch almost every Beaver game. I haven't heard any announcer say a bad thing about him, most are glowing about his abilities. I have to come to this board to hear people talk about him not having any talent. At some point you need to realize this team was a work in progress this year and accept that or not. I guess patience to see someone or a team develop isn't something everyone has. We've not come close at anytime to recruiting what Romar has. UW is supremely talented... we're not. For the last 3-4 years I'll let you go look at the number of draft picks. He's done nothing with everything. As for Drew, he's VERY limited player right now. He's not even dominate in his limited offensive skills let alone his mental fortitude. As for announcers, tell me one that states a player is average... or worse... ever. They all find positives/ strengths in each. It's their job. As for "patience" and "development"... most average D1 players/teams by the time the reach this level can... set a screen... use a screen... play help side D... not have to be yelled at what to do on most offensive possessions... etc. This isn't a develop team chemistry issue... this is lower tier Pac12 talent that is fundamentally unsound in multiple areas. As for the 4th youngest team... who's exactly responsible for that. Pretty sure every poster on here that follows hoops knew (class level of each team has been posted many times) the grads and roster issues... so did the staff. Hard to give someone a pass in terms of the roster they built. Injuries or not, this roster was rail thin. You go on about how Romar recruits great talent, but despite that and the fact that he has several more returning scholarship players who played last year, they only won 1 more Pac 12 game than the Beavs did this year. I get the whole less with more criticism, but by the same token, he's doing even less than he usually does since he's relying on mostly underclassmen this year. Now as far as the 4th youngest team thing... I can't readily back nor refute that claim, but we are very young. There is a HUGE hole in junior and senior leadership on this team. If you are looking for 3rd and 4th year players, which every successful team not the 1991/1992/1993 Michigan team should have... that falls directly on a coach, or universal convergence, named "not Tinkle". Robinson, if he had stayed would likely be dealing with the exact same issues. The names of the young players might change, but he still would have been dealing with a young team. You do realize he lost all 5 starters and his top 5 scorers BEFORE he was fired? He'd have been starting pretty much from square one if he had remained here, any other coach would have been left in the exact same scenario Coach Tinkle was if they had been hired. Now in theory Tinkle could have kept Robbins despite all of the problems, in theory he could have somehow solved whatever issues kept Malcolm out this year (or guru'd him into ignoring it), and in theory the last two years he could have recruited several extra JC players that were almost as good as Stacy and Dew to fill out our roster... Did you really want that? My feeling he was reaching to trying to address our roster shortages in recruiting those two, I'm glad we don't have 4 more. Tinkle has only had two classes, and as far as the true freshmen and sophomores he has brought in, they all look to be legitimate contributors. Unfortunately it's going to take a total of three to four classes to repair the holes in the upperclass leadership that was caused by "not Tinkle". This shortage of talent was coming pretty much no matter who the coach was the last two years. Assuming there aren't health/personal/maturity issues with the current and upcoming players, the team is looking to be quite a bit better pretty soon. Probably not NCAA tourney better next season, but much improved. We'll finally have at least 3 juniors (still lacking seniors) and will still be a young team, but nowhere near as young or inexperienced as this season. We likely won't have a superstar (or as you said in an earlier thread, a "difference maker"), but we just may have one that gets close in Tres if he comes in and stays healthy. If healthy, he certainly changes the complexion of our front court substantially even if he performs no better than he did at the beginning of this season prior to the injury. I guess I'm somewhat of a silver lining guy to some extent. I'd rather not have to look for one, but Tres being out has allowed for the development of both Eubanks and Rakocevic. Something is happening there.... the first half of the season it seemed neither of those kids could stay in the game due to fouls. They have learned how to stay in and be productive and not foul because they're overwhelmed. (Brings me back to my freshman year at OSU playing pickup ball... with my group of regulars I was assigned to cover either the 6'7" kid who was OK at basketball or the 6"1" guy who was athletic and good at basketball. I was 6"1" and nowhere capable of covering them when I started, it took a few months before I wasn't resorting to fouling, I actually got pretty OK by the end of that year). I'm thinking pretty much all of our young scholarship recruited players (aside from the JC kids) will be more capable players at this level than they were this year due to the hardships they've played through this season. In an ideal world, several kids we have on the team this year wouldn't be there, and some of the young players we've recruited wouldn't have seen anywhere near as much playing time yet... but they've grown from the experience so there's some benefit there. I think you do have a point about the screens. What's going on there? I gotta blame coaching, it's been that way for a while. Watching the Beaver women's team the last little bit reminded me just how physical college basketball can actually be, and what a good screen game can mean. I do question the offense at times, but it seems to be starting to make some semblance of sense finally. Interesting times coming up ahead. I'm willing to wait on judgement. I expect this team, without Malcolm, can win 15-16 games or so next year, with Malcolm add 5. The year after I expect more. At that point Coach Tinkle will have 4 classes in, and actual Seniors and Juniors playing. I basically doubt OSU will ever be able to recruit at the level of Arizona or UCLA no matter who the coach is, but even they have pretty reasonable representation of juniors and seniors mixed in their top 6/7 in playing time, Oregon and Utah have even more upperclassmen getting the bulk of the minutes, OSU had ZERO upperclassmen in their top 6-7 getting minutes this year. Give it a little time.
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Post by bigskybeaver on Mar 9, 2017 23:31:34 GMT -8
Hence my post saying yeah and we have no talent either. Romar has been named coach of the year 3 times in the pac-12. I don't think he has forgotten how to coach. My point is that you say Tinkle can't recruit. Outside of Markelle Fultz I'd say we are on par with there talent level. We are the 4th youngest team in the country and our best player was injured for most of the year. Is Tinkle the right coach? I don't know but I think he gets a bit of a pass this year considering everything. He had a pretty good record at Montana and I don't think he's forgotten how to coach either. Eubanks is an honorable mention Pac-12 player. I watch almost every Beaver game. I haven't heard any announcer say a bad thing about him, most are glowing about his abilities. I have to come to this board to hear people talk about him not having any talent. At some point you need to realize this team was a work in progress this year and accept that or not. I guess patience to see someone or a team develop isn't something everyone has. We've not come close at anytime to recruiting what Romar has. UW is supremely talented... we're not. For the last 3-4 years I'll let you go look at the number of draft picks. He's done nothing with everything. As for Drew, he's VERY limited player right now. He's not even dominate in his limited offensive skills let alone his mental fortitude. As for announcers, tell me one that states a player is average... or worse... ever. They all find positives/ strengths in each. It's their job. As for "patience" and "development"... most average D1 players/teams by the time the reach this level can... set a screen... use a screen... play help side D... not have to be yelled at what to do on most offensive possessions... etc. This isn't a develop team chemistry issue... this is lower tier Pac12 talent that is fundamentally unsound in multiple areas. As for the 4th youngest team... who's exactly responsible for that. Pretty sure every poster on here that follows hoops knew (class level of each team has been posted many times) the grads and roster issues... so did the staff. Hard to give someone a pass in terms of the roster they built. Injuries or not, this roster was rail thin. Has Romar recruited better then us? Yes, He seems to get 1 or 2 1 and done player almost every year. How much has that helped UW? Outside of those players I think OSU has just as much talent on our team. A announcer isn't very rarely going to call out a guy for being average or not good, I do hear it from time to time though. I don't think any announcer is going to stuff rainbows up a players a** for no reason. I'd imagine most of what they say is because maybe the actually believe it? Just because you want to downplay his ability because he is lacking in some areas doesn't mean he doesn't have ability and could turn into a good player for us. He's grown a lot as a player since he got here and even more this year from beginning to the end of the year. I can't really argue much about the roster, I have issues with it also but it is what it is. Did Tinkle drop the ball on getting some guys? I'd say yeah, but would you rather him get a guy that doesn't fit his system or doesn't have talent just to fill one of the scholarships or hold onto that scholarship until he finds someone that he wants? It might just be he isn't that good of a recruiter, although I think he has done a pretty good job at bringing the talent he has to the team. Granted some of that has been to who they are related to. If the team gets better recruiting well be easier. I think the jury is out till this years sophomores are seniors. At that point we should have the classes worked out as far as them not being more even.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 10, 2017 8:10:54 GMT -8
We've not come close at anytime to recruiting what Romar has. UW is supremely talented... we're not. For the last 3-4 years I'll let you go look at the number of draft picks. He's done nothing with everything. As for Drew, he's VERY limited player right now. He's not even dominate in his limited offensive skills let alone his mental fortitude. As for announcers, tell me one that states a player is average... or worse... ever. They all find positives/ strengths in each. It's their job. As for "patience" and "development"... most average D1 players/teams by the time the reach this level can... set a screen... use a screen... play help side D... not have to be yelled at what to do on most offensive possessions... etc. This isn't a develop team chemistry issue... this is lower tier Pac12 talent that is fundamentally unsound in multiple areas. As for the 4th youngest team... who's exactly responsible for that. Pretty sure every poster on here that follows hoops knew (class level of each team has been posted many times) the grads and roster issues... so did the staff. Hard to give someone a pass in terms of the roster they built. Injuries or not, this roster was rail thin. You go on about how Romar recruits great talent, but despite that and the fact that he has several more returning scholarship players who played last year, they only won 1 more Pac 12 game than the Beavs did this year. I get the whole less with more criticism, but by the same token, he's doing even less than he usually does since he's relying on mostly underclassmen this year. Now as far as the 4th youngest team thing... I can't readily back nor refute that claim, but we are very young. There is a HUGE hole in junior and senior leadership on this team. If you are looking for 3rd and 4th year players, which every successful team not the 1991/1992/1993 Michigan team should have... that falls directly on a coach, or universal convergence, named "not Tinkle". Robinson, if he had stayed would likely be dealing with the exact same issues. The names of the young players might change, but he still would have been dealing with a young team. You do realize he lost all 5 starters and his top 5 scorers BEFORE he was fired? He'd have been starting pretty much from square one if he had remained here, any other coach would have been left in the exact same scenario Coach Tinkle was if they had been hired. Now in theory Tinkle could have kept Robbins despite all of the problems, in theory he could have somehow solved whatever issues kept Malcolm out this year (or guru'd him into ignoring it), and in theory the last two years he could have recruited several extra JC players that were almost as good as Stacy and Dew to fill out our roster... Did you really want that? My feeling he was reaching to trying to address our roster shortages in recruiting those two, I'm glad we don't have 4 more. Tinkle has only had two classes, and as far as the true freshmen and sophomores he has brought in, they all look to be legitimate contributors. Unfortunately it's going to take a total of three to four classes to repair the holes in the upperclass leadership that was caused by "not Tinkle". This shortage of talent was coming pretty much no matter who the coach was the last two years. Assuming there aren't health/personal/maturity issues with the current and upcoming players, the team is looking to be quite a bit better pretty soon. Probably not NCAA tourney better next season, but much improved. We'll finally have at least 3 juniors (still lacking seniors) and will still be a young team, but nowhere near as young or inexperienced as this season. We likely won't have a superstar (or as you said in an earlier thread, a "difference maker"), but we just may have one that gets close in Tres if he comes in and stays healthy. If healthy, he certainly changes the complexion of our front court substantially even if he performs no better than he did at the beginning of this season prior to the injury. I guess I'm somewhat of a silver lining guy to some extent. I'd rather not have to look for one, but Tres being out has allowed for the development of both Eubanks and Rakocevic. Something is happening there.... the first half of the season it seemed neither of those kids could stay in the game due to fouls. They have learned how to stay in and be productive and not foul because they're overwhelmed. (Brings me back to my freshman year at OSU playing pickup ball... with my group of regulars I was assigned to cover either the 6'7" kid who was OK at basketball or the 6"1" guy who was athletic and good at basketball. I was 6"1" and nowhere capable of covering them when I started, it took a few months before I wasn't resorting to fouling, I actually got pretty OK by the end of that year). I'm thinking pretty much all of our young scholarship recruited players (aside from the JC kids) will be more capable players at this level than they were this year due to the hardships they've played through this season. In an ideal world, several kids we have on the team this year wouldn't be there, and some of the young players we've recruited wouldn't have seen anywhere near as much playing time yet... but they've grown from the experience so there's some benefit there. I think you do have a point about the screens. What's going on there? I gotta blame coaching, it's been that way for a while. Watching the Beaver women's team the last little bit reminded me just how physical college basketball can actually be, and what a good screen game can mean. I do question the offense at times, but it seems to be starting to make some semblance of sense finally. Interesting times coming up ahead. I'm willing to wait on judgement. I expect this team, without Malcolm, can win 15-16 games or so next year, with Malcolm add 5. The year after I expect more. At that point Coach Tinkle will have 4 classes in, and actual Seniors and Juniors playing. I basically doubt OSU will ever be able to recruit at the level of Arizona or UCLA no matter who the coach is, but even they have pretty reasonable representation of juniors and seniors mixed in their top 6/7 in playing time, Oregon and Utah have even more upperclassmen getting the bulk of the minutes, OSU had ZERO upperclassmen in their top 6-7 getting minutes this year. Give it a little time. My point on Romar might have been lost in here!? Lol Basically my point was he can recruit, but not necessarily coach up all these 4/5* types to the level expected... hence if UW hires a very good coach and can draw similar talent they are another team that vaults ahead of OSU. So far, to me OSU has two BIG "ifs" that have not gone away as of now: -recruiting... we are not getting upper echelon results (forget the reason, results are not there) from our most important recruits and we are not filling the roster with similar or better recruits to those guys let alone in comparison to what teams above us are pulling in. -coaching... this staff as if now has not shown the superior detailed coaching / program that can take lower level recruiting classes and make them competitive with those classes/teams with better rosters. You hope for a little combo of both, but at least the latter gives you the solid foundation to be highly competitive vs any team. My worry, we're sorely lacking in both areas.
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