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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 10:47:25 GMT -8
Setting it at +2
Lets be normal in this stat for once.
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Post by badwack on Feb 4, 2017 11:08:11 GMT -8
Ok, it just seems to me we experience too many of these injuries. Is this now normal everywhere?
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 4, 2017 11:56:21 GMT -8
Ok, it just seems to me we experience too many of these injuries. Is this now normal everywhere? It is not normal everywhere. We have some telling issues in that area... it is the ONLY complaint I've ever had with PC. Coached against him at the HS level, sent kids to him at GF and OSU, and he personally did a fine job with pitchers. Since being at OSU... last 12-15 specifically I have not been enamored with Spencer and Yeskie. There have been multiple occasions (one this year was mentioned but can not remember who it was, Tweedt maybe??) where a kid had arm issues and/or surgery and during rehab it was stated we need to adjust his arm angle/delivery/release now. Maybe should have been proactive instead of reactive?! It is hard to argue with the "outcomes" of our pitching staffs, but I've questioned the "process" at times. I worked camps with Spencer and very little at camps with Yeskie, but have wondered about several guys and how much better they could have been. With others, why weren't they as good as advertised and fell off the deep end and rarely saw the mound or left the program. We've had some "aces" that basically only had two pitches,and I always wondered how that has happened by the time they are a D1 hurler. The other factor is the "familiarity" we have to our programs. We do not see all the ins and outs of other programs so we naturally think something like this happens more often than not here. Pitching is truly a "meat market"... it's why so many pitching limit rules have popped up. Coaches from the earliest of ages don't teach proper throwing and arm strength techniques, overuse arms, and kids do not take care of themselves very well. As talented pitchers progress they are used more and more, and in more pressurized situations. It becomes a real strain and if they are effectively winning no one cares about their motion... if isn't broke don't fix it. As kids move onto college levels and higher it basically continues... hundreds of pitchers are drafted each year to fill out rosters and innings needed at farm levels so the one guy out of 20 can become the "golden boy". The rest are filling spots until they are not effective or not needed because of a new crop of fresh arms. It is actually quite amazing to me that with all the poor "coaching" of techniques in the younger levels their are not more surgeries. And equally amazing the recoveries some of these guys make coming back from surgery. It took me years and years to trust my knee after a major MCL, can't imagine even throwing BP sessions after a TJ. |
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Post by joecool on Feb 4, 2017 19:36:08 GMT -8
1. When setting an over/under, use a number with a half, for example, 2.5. That way there is no tie.
2. This post is in horribly bad taste, predicting how many guys will blow out their arm? Come on.
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Post by BeaverG20 on Feb 5, 2017 6:35:44 GMT -8
1. When setting an over/under, use a number with a half, for example, 2.5. That way there is no tie. 2. This post is in horribly bad taste, predicting how many guys will blow out their arm? Come on. I agree on both points. Try to keep stuff in perspective when pontificating on injuries. Baseball is a pretty superstitious sport. With that being said, anybody who starts a thread discussing "When will KJ hit his first HR?" will have that post deleted and they will be getting a time out. I'm seriously considering canning this whole thread for the same reasons. Edit P.S. I'm not picking on you, blowcheese, I'm just superstitious. After football, basketball and wrestling have been less than fulfilling, I want a great baseball year. I think it will be. |
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Post by thewizard on Feb 5, 2017 8:04:59 GMT -8
Extremely poor taste for a Beaver Fan. IMHO I think most of these guys come from HS/Legion programs that over use them at that level. They arrive damaged.
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Post by blueheron on Feb 5, 2017 8:32:39 GMT -8
1. When setting an over/under, use a number with a half, for example, 2.5. That way there is no tie. 2. This post is in horribly bad taste, predicting how many guys will blow out their arm? Come on. I agree on both points. Try to keep stuff in perspective when pontificating on injuries. Baseball is a pretty superstitious sport. With that being said, anybody who starts a thread discussing "When will KJ hit his first HR?" will have that post deleted and they will be getting a time out. I'm seriously considering canning this whole thread for the same reasons. Edit P.S. I'm not picking on you, blowcheese, I'm just superstitious. After football, basketball and wrestling have been less than fulfilling, I want a great baseball year. I think it will be. Really lol?! What we think on a fans board has zero impact on a game or a season. There is no such thing as superstition and it's impact on any result anywhere. |
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Post by beavs6 on Feb 5, 2017 9:21:40 GMT -8
I agree on both points. Try to keep stuff in perspective when pontificating on injuries. Baseball is a pretty superstitious sport. With that being said, anybody who starts a thread discussing "When will KJ hit his first HR?" will have that post deleted and they will be getting a time out. I'm seriously considering canning this whole thread for the same reasons. Edit P.S. I'm not picking on you, blowcheese, I'm just superstitious. After football, basketball and wrestling have been less than fulfilling, I want a great baseball year. I think it will be. Really lol?! What we think on a fans board has zero impact on a game or a season. There is no such thing as superstition and it's impact on any result anywhere. Really lol?! He stated that the game of baseball is full of superstition, whether you choose to be on board and a believer of it or not. Just the way it is. Maybe superstition leads to confidence. Do you believe in confidence? |
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Post by BeaverG20 on Feb 5, 2017 10:24:23 GMT -8
Really lol?! What we think on a fans board has zero impact on a game or a season. There is no such thing as superstition and it's impact on any result anywhere. No, not really. It was tongue in cheek. That's why the thread is still here. |
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Post by badwack on Feb 5, 2017 11:12:52 GMT -8
Hey, the last thing I would want to do is bash the Beav's Baseball Program. However, as an ex-coach- player, granted years ago I just don't remember the number of Tommy Johns' that had to be performed. Perhaps it is advancements in Medicine but as a old coach I sure would like to know what these kids are doing to screw up their arms. Hell yes there are superstitions! Fun, Crazy whatever the game does have it's own kind of humor. I love it.
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Post by beavaristotle on Feb 5, 2017 12:22:28 GMT -8
tommy john surgery is so passé, the new surgery is Seth Maness surgery. the surgery entails repairing the ligament and anchoring it to the bone, then a brace system is introduced inside the elbow using arthrex tape which is a ultra high strength 2 mm tape. since the body does not have to adapt to a new ligament , recovery time is 6 months. it was developed by an associate of dr james Andrews, the father of tommy john surgery. over 150 procedures have been done with no failure or second surgery needed. seth maness a journeyman reliever will be this generations tommy john
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Post by jdogge on Feb 5, 2017 16:57:05 GMT -8
Ok, it just seems to me we experience too many of these injuries. Is this now normal everywhere? It is not normal everywhere. We have some telling issues in that area... it is the ONLY complaint I've ever had with PC. Coached against him at the HS level, sent kids to him at GF and OSU, and he personally did a fine job with pitchers. Since being at OSU... last 12-15 specifically I have not been enamored with Spencer and Yeskie. There have been multiple occasions (one this year was mentioned but can not remember who it was, Tweedt maybe??) where a kid had arm issues and/or surgery and during rehab it was stated we need to adjust his arm angle/delivery/release now. Maybe should have been proactive instead of reactive?! It is hard to argue with the "outcomes" of our pitching staffs, but I've questioned the "process" at times. I worked camps with Spencer and very little at camps with Yeskie, but have wondered about several guys and how much better they could have been. With others, why weren't they as good as advertised and fell off the deep end and rarely saw the mound or left the program. We've had some "aces" that basically only had two pitches,and I always wondered how that has happened by the time they are a D1 hurler. The other factor is the "familiarity" we have to our programs. We do not see all the ins and outs of other programs so we naturally think something like this happens more often than not here. Pitching is truly a "meat market"... it's why so many pitching limit rules have popped up. Coaches from the earliest of ages don't teach proper throwing and arm strength techniques, overuse arms, and kids do not take care of themselves very well. As talented pitchers progress they are used more and more, and in more pressurized situations. It becomes a real strain and if they are effectively winning no one cares about their motion... if isn't broke don't fix it. As kids move onto college levels and higher it basically continues... hundreds of pitchers are drafted each year to fill out rosters and innings needed at farm levels so the one guy out of 20 can become the "golden boy". The rest are filling spots until they are not effective or not needed because of a new crop of fresh arms. It is actually quite amazing to me that with all the poor "coaching" of techniques in the younger levels their are not more surgeries. And equally amazing the recoveries some of these guys make coming back from surgery. It took me years and years to trust my knee after a major MCL, can't imagine even throwing BP sessions after a TJ. The arms issues are due to the amount of pitching the kids do from 12-18 years. You can't blame the OSU staff for that. They don't make them throw year round during those years -- parents and H.S. Coaches answer to that. BTW, can't figure out why you're not coach- or manager-of-the-year on the pro-level given all of your success at the H.S. level. After all, you took your teams to the state finals multiple times in at least six sports. |
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Post by kersting13 on Feb 5, 2017 18:04:26 GMT -8
It is not normal everywhere. We have some telling issues in that area... it is the ONLY complaint I've ever had with PC. Coached against him at the HS level, sent kids to him at GF and OSU, and he personally did a fine job with pitchers. Since being at OSU... last 12-15 specifically I have not been enamored with Spencer and Yeskie. There have been multiple occasions (one this year was mentioned but can not remember who it was, Tweedt maybe??) where a kid had arm issues and/or surgery and during rehab it was stated we need to adjust his arm angle/delivery/release now. Maybe should have been proactive instead of reactive?! It is hard to argue with the "outcomes" of our pitching staffs, but I've questioned the "process" at times. I worked camps with Spencer and very little at camps with Yeskie, but have wondered about several guys and how much better they could have been. With others, why weren't they as good as advertised and fell off the deep end and rarely saw the mound or left the program. We've had some "aces" that basically only had two pitches,and I always wondered how that has happened by the time they are a D1 hurler. The other factor is the "familiarity" we have to our programs. We do not see all the ins and outs of other programs so we naturally think something like this happens more often than not here. Pitching is truly a "meat market"... it's why so many pitching limit rules have popped up. Coaches from the earliest of ages don't teach proper throwing and arm strength techniques, overuse arms, and kids do not take care of themselves very well. As talented pitchers progress they are used more and more, and in more pressurized situations. It becomes a real strain and if they are effectively winning no one cares about their motion... if isn't broke don't fix it. As kids move onto college levels and higher it basically continues... hundreds of pitchers are drafted each year to fill out rosters and innings needed at farm levels so the one guy out of 20 can become the "golden boy". The rest are filling spots until they are not effective or not needed because of a new crop of fresh arms. It is actually quite amazing to me that with all the poor "coaching" of techniques in the younger levels their are not more surgeries. And equally amazing the recoveries some of these guys make coming back from surgery. It took me years and years to trust my knee after a major MCL, can't imagine even throwing BP sessions after a TJ. The arms issues are due to the amount of pitching the kids do from 12-18 years. You can't blame the OSU staff for that. They don't make them throw year round during those years -- parents and H.S. Coaches answer to that. BTW, can't figure out why you're not coach- or manager-of-the-year on the pro-level given all of your success at the H.S. level. After all, you took your teams to the state finals multiple times in at least six sports. i know it's quite popular to blame the amount of pitching done at the youth level, but I don't believe it's much more than anectdotal to me. There are pitch limits on kids down to 7-years-old level that were NEVER in place years ago. I can't speak for others, but beyond just playing baseball, I threw more innings of wiffle ball than I ever threw in real games. As for throwing year round, my preferred outdoor activity back when was sandlot football, and I'm sure I threw hundreds of footballs in the fall. Maybe that's a problem. Slightly different throwing motions the kids don't get if they're only throwing legit baseballs all year. I don't think there is one single answer to the UCL epidemic, or else someone would have figured it out by now. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 5, 2017 18:17:35 GMT -8
Arm issues are typically from repeated use poor mechanics... so over use with poor mechanics usually caused by trying to throw harder is the real culprit.
A similar analogy can be made to little tykes trying to shoot at 10' hoops. You saw or see some ugly "shot puts" trying to muscle the ball up.
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Post by jdogge on Feb 5, 2017 18:40:02 GMT -8
The arms issues are due to the amount of pitching the kids do from 12-18 years. You can't blame the OSU staff for that. They don't make them throw year round during those years -- parents and H.S. Coaches answer to that. BTW, can't figure out why you're not coach- or manager-of-the-year on the pro-level given all of your success at the H.S. level. After all, you took your teams to the state finals multiple times in at least six sports. i know it's quite popular to blame the amount of pitching done at the youth level, but I don't believe it's much more than anectdotal to me. There are pitch limits on kids down to 7-years-old level that were NEVER in place years ago. I can't speak for others, but beyond just playing baseball, I threw more innings of wiffle ball than I ever threw in real games. As for throwing year round, my preferred outdoor activity back when was sandlot football, and I'm sure I threw hundreds of footballs in the fall. Maybe that's a problem. Slightly different throwing motions the kids don't get if they're only throwing legit baseballs all year. I don't think there is one single answer to the UCL epidemic, or else someone would have figured it out by now. Andrews studied this significantly and tied it to year-round pitching. That, apparently, led to the pitch limits for the kids. If they've established limits for the teens, great! In which case, we should, within a couple of years, see dramatic reductions in the UCL injuries. |
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