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Post by Quint on Jan 22, 2017 13:16:41 GMT -8
What do we do? I know it's not our decision, but a fun discussion to give us a break from the very sad current state of affairs. If it was the decision of the fine people of Benny's House, what is the right thing to do for this program?
A. Make a coaching change? Is this even realistic? If the coach goes we would also be sure to lose possibly our three best players (Tres, Stevie, Ethan). Imagine our talent level if that were to happen. Yikes! And then who knows, maybe guys like Eubanks and McLaughlin would leave too. Talk about starting over. I don't think this is an option, is it???
B. Stay the course? Here's the scary thing about that. If you look at all the coaching tenures at OSU since Ralph, they all seem to be somewhat similar. Hire a new coach, he gets a couple of decent recruiting classes, his teams peak after two or three years, things don't work out on the court, recruiting declines, fire the coach after 5 or 6 years. The cupboard is completely bare, we hire a new coach. Rinse and repeat over and over and over and over. Tinkle hasn't proven to be a good recruiter / evaluator of talent. History shows that an OSU coach does their best recruiting after year one or two. Tinkle seemed to struggle in recruiting after all that monentum of his NCAA tourney season. So how well is he going to be able to recruit after a 4 - 28 season??? Based on previous OSU coaching tenures, the decline appears to be happening AGAIN.
So what do we do?
For the life of me the one thing that I can't figure out is why we haven't been able to bring in a coach that can turn this thing. Who is that on? The A.D.'s? The President? Oregon State? Corvallis? And if we have to do it AGAIN, are we just going to strike out AGAIN???
As a guy that feel in love with basketball because of watching Ralph's teams play as a kid, and then suffered through the post-Ralph years, what is it going to take for this program to be consistently relavant? I really like Tinkle as a man, and thought we had our guy after two years, but I still watch every minute of every game and this year has just been brutal.
So what do we do???
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Post by jdogge on Jan 22, 2017 13:37:01 GMT -8
What do we do? I know it's not our decision, but a fun discussion to give us a break from the very sad current state of affairs. If it was the decision of the fine people of Benny's House, what is the right thing to do for this program?
A. Make a coaching change? Is this even realistic? If the coach goes we would also be sure to lose possibly our three best players (Tres, Stevie, Ethan). Imagine our talent level if that were to happen. Yikes! And then who knows, maybe guys like Eubanks and McLaughlin would leave too. Talk about starting over. I don't think this is an option, is it???
B. Stay the course? Here's the scary thing about that. If you look at all the coaching tenures at OSU since Ralph, they all seem to be somewhat similar. Hire a new coach, he gets a couple of decent recruiting classes, his teams peak after two or three years, things don't work out on the court, recruiting declines, fire the coach after 5 or 6 years. The cupboard is completely bare, we hire a new coach. Rinse and repeat over and over and over and over. Tinkle hasn't proven to be a good recruiter / evaluator of talent. History shows that an OSU coach does their best recruiting after year one or two. Tinkle seemed to struggle in recruiting after all that monentum of his NCAA tourney season. So how well is he going to be able to recruit after a 4 - 28 season??? Based on previous OSU coaching tenures, the decline appears to be happening AGAIN.
So what do we do?
For the life of me the one thing that I can't figure out is why we haven't been able to bring in a coach that can turn this thing. Who is that on? The A.D.'s? The President? Oregon State? Corvallis? And if we have to do it AGAIN, are we just going to strike out AGAIN???
As a guy that feel in love with basketball because of watching Ralph's teams play as a kid, and then suffered through the post-Ralph years, what is it going to take for this program to be consistently relavant? I really like Tinkle as a man, and thought we had our guy after two years, but I still watch every minute of every game and this year has just been brutal.
So what do we do???
What do we do? Recognize that, because OSU cannot compete for top-notch recruits with UA, UW, ASU, UCLA, Stanford, CAL, USC ..., we will never be a seriously competitive NCAA Men's baketball program AND we should stop expecting that not to be the case.
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Post by beaver94 on Jan 22, 2017 14:17:05 GMT -8
What do we do? I know it's not our decision, but a fun discussion to give us a break from the very sad current state of affairs. If it was the decision of the fine people of Benny's House, what is the right thing to do for this program?
A. Make a coaching change? Is this even realistic? If the coach goes we would also be sure to lose possibly our three best players (Tres, Stevie, Ethan). Imagine our talent level if that were to happen. Yikes! And then who knows, maybe guys like Eubanks and McLaughlin would leave too. Talk about starting over. I don't think this is an option, is it???
B. Stay the course? Here's the scary thing about that. If you look at all the coaching tenures at OSU since Ralph, they all seem to be somewhat similar. Hire a new coach, he gets a couple of decent recruiting classes, his teams peak after two or three years, things don't work out on the court, recruiting declines, fire the coach after 5 or 6 years. The cupboard is completely bare, we hire a new coach. Rinse and repeat over and over and over and over. Tinkle hasn't proven to be a good recruiter / evaluator of talent. History shows that an OSU coach does their best recruiting after year one or two. Tinkle seemed to struggle in recruiting after all that monentum of his NCAA tourney season. So how well is he going to be able to recruit after a 4 - 28 season??? Based on previous OSU coaching tenures, the decline appears to be happening AGAIN.
So what do we do?
For the life of me the one thing that I can't figure out is why we haven't been able to bring in a coach that can turn this thing. Who is that on? The A.D.'s? The President? Oregon State? Corvallis? And if we have to do it AGAIN, are we just going to strike out AGAIN???
As a guy that feel in love with basketball because of watching Ralph's teams play as a kid, and then suffered through the post-Ralph years, what is it going to take for this program to be consistently relavant? I really like Tinkle as a man, and thought we had our guy after two years, but I still watch every minute of every game and this year has just been brutal.
So what do we do???
What do we do? Recognize that, because OSU cannot compete for top-notch recruits with UA, UW, ASU, UCLA, Stanford, CAL, USC ..., we will never be a seriously competitive NCAA Men's baketball program AND we should stop expecting that not to be the case. We also shouldn't expect to do it with a team still made up of freshman and sophomores. I think you give him a couple more years and see if he can build a competitive team built around an older core of players.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 22, 2017 14:53:47 GMT -8
The Beavs are taking their lumps this year between injuries and inexperience. Tinkle's only recruiting classes so far are just now true freshmen and sophs, there should be leftover upperclassmen running the show, that's not the case. While I have some questions about the Beavers offensive scheme the last couple years and this year, Tinkle has shown he can coach circles around our last few coaches the past two years.
This is not a make or break year or indicative of the teams potential. This team will probably be 1 top level big man away from being a good team next year, too bad his 2018 commit isn't a year older, we'd get where everyone wants to be that much quicker.
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Post by beavaristotle on Jan 22, 2017 14:54:36 GMT -8
What do we do? I know it's not our decision, but a fun discussion to give us a break from the very sad current state of affairs. If it was the decision of the fine people of Benny's House, what is the right thing to do for this program?
A. Make a coaching change? Is this even realistic? If the coach goes we would also be sure to lose possibly our three best players (Tres, Stevie, Ethan). Imagine our talent level if that were to happen. Yikes! And then who knows, maybe guys like Eubanks and McLaughlin would leave too. Talk about starting over. I don't think this is an option, is it???
B. Stay the course? Here's the scary thing about that. If you look at all the coaching tenures at OSU since Ralph, they all seem to be somewhat similar. Hire a new coach, he gets a couple of decent recruiting classes, his teams peak after two or three years, things don't work out on the court, recruiting declines, fire the coach after 5 or 6 years. The cupboard is completely bare, we hire a new coach. Rinse and repeat over and over and over and over. Tinkle hasn't proven to be a good recruiter / evaluator of talent. History shows that an OSU coach does their best recruiting after year one or two. Tinkle seemed to struggle in recruiting after all that monentum of his NCAA tourney season. So how well is he going to be able to recruit after a 4 - 28 season??? Based on previous OSU coaching tenures, the decline appears to be happening AGAIN.
So what do we do?
For the life of me the one thing that I can't figure out is why we haven't been able to bring in a coach that can turn this thing. Who is that on? The A.D.'s? The President? Oregon State? Corvallis? And if we have to do it AGAIN, are we just going to strike out AGAIN???
As a guy that feel in love with basketball because of watching Ralph's teams play as a kid, and then suffered through the post-Ralph years, what is it going to take for this program to be consistently relavant? I really like Tinkle as a man, and thought we had our guy after two years, but I still watch every minute of every game and this year has just been brutal.
So what do we do???
Quint, best avatar of all time
Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into our side, Chief. We was comin' back from the island of Tinian to Leyte, just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in twelve minutes. Didn't see the first shark for about a half an hour. Tiger. Thirteen-footer. You know how you know that when you're in the water, Chief? You tell by lookin' from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn't know... was our bomb mission had been so secret, no distress signal had been sent. Heh. They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin'. So we formed ourselves into tight groups. Y'know, it's... kinda like ol' squares in a battle like, uh, you see in a calendar, like the Battle of Waterloo, and the idea was, shark comes to the nearest man and that man, he'd start poundin' and hollerin' and screamin', and sometimes the shark'd go away... sometimes he wouldn't go away. Sometimes that shark, he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. Y'know the thing about a shark, he's got... lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be livin'... until he bites ya. And those black eyes roll over white, and then... oh, then you hear that terrible high-pitch screamin', the ocean turns red, and spite of all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces. Y'know, by the end of that first dawn... lost a hundred men. I dunno how many sharks. Maybe a thousand. I dunno how many men, they averaged six an hour. On Thursday mornin', Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Bosun's mate. I thought he was asleep. Reached over to wake him up. Bobbed up and down in the water just like a kinda top. Upended. Well... he'd been bitten in half below the waist. Noon the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us, he swung in low and he saw us. Young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper. Anyway, he saw us and come in low and three hours later, a big fat PBY comes down and start to pick us up. Y'know, that was the time I was most frightened, waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a life jacket again. So, eleven hundred men went into the water, three hundred sixteen men come out, and the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945.
Quint: Anyway... we delivered the bomb.
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Post by greshambeaver on Jan 22, 2017 15:11:26 GMT -8
This team is asleep. They have no defense, they have almost no offense. They are not running plays, not hustling, basically they have given this season up. I am not a basketball coaching expert, but I see no fire at all. I don't care if they are Freshman, Sophs, or Junior/Seniors.
Tres T seems to be injury prone, brittle bones? Not sure, but it is frustrating. Even if he were available would it make that much difference? Losing to the ducks the other night was down right embarrassing. Eubanks has a lot of potential as does McLaughlin (in my opinion), but they both may leave with a coaching change at this point. Of course you would lose T.T, S.T. and E.T. So it does no good to get rid of Tinkle now. I say give him two years, if we see the same that we are seeing now by then; Bye, Bye!!! At this point I see no improvement over Robinson or even John. I hope things change next year...
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Post by jdogge on Jan 22, 2017 17:03:01 GMT -8
What do we do? Recognize that, because OSU cannot compete for top-notch recruits with UA, UW, ASU, UCLA, Stanford, CAL, USC ..., we will never be a seriously competitive NCAA Men's baketball program AND we should stop expecting that not to be the case. We also shouldn't expect to do it with a team still made up of freshman and sophomores. I think you give him a couple more years and see if he can build a competitive team built around an older core of players. Yeah, I agree. My response is mindful of watching the fan base go through this every year whether it be Football or Basketball. On the football board the question was asked about what it would take to win a NC. I don't see that as very productive because, in reality, we're never going to really be able to compete at that level in football and men's basketball -- we're never going to be able to compete with other Pac-12 Teams Re: money, academic prowess, or lifestyle offerings. So why have those expectations. I think 8-10 wins a years and a decent bowl game for football, and regular invite to the Dance for men's basketball is as good as it will ever get. Let's focus on those expectations. Let's give these coaches a chance to create a system that gets that done.
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Post by TheGlove on Jan 23, 2017 9:34:50 GMT -8
This team is asleep. They have no defense, they have almost no offense. They are not running plays, not hustling, basically they have given this season up. I am not a basketball coaching expert, but I see no fire at all. I don't care if they are Freshman, Sophs, or Junior/Seniors. Tres T seems to be injury prone, brittle bones? Not sure, but it is frustrating. Even if he were available would it make that much difference? Losing to the ducks the other night was down right embarrassing. Eubanks has a lot of potential as does McLaughlin (in my opinion), but they both may leave with a coaching change at this point. Of course you would lose T.T, S.T. and E.T. So it does no good to get rid of Tinkle now. I say give him two years, if we see the same that we are seeing now by then; Bye, Bye!!! At this point I see no improvement over Robinson or even John. I hope things change next year... I agree with everything except your second to last sentence. It seems that this year has made you forget the last 2, which in my humble opinions, were light years ahead of anything that happened under the JJ or CR regimes.
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Post by TheGlove on Jan 23, 2017 9:38:03 GMT -8
What do we do? I know it's not our decision, but a fun discussion to give us a break from the very sad current state of affairs. If it was the decision of the fine people of Benny's House, what is the right thing to do for this program?
A. Make a coaching change? Is this even realistic? If the coach goes we would also be sure to lose possibly our three best players (Tres, Stevie, Ethan). Imagine our talent level if that were to happen. Yikes! And then who knows, maybe guys like Eubanks and McLaughlin would leave too. Talk about starting over. I don't think this is an option, is it???
B. Stay the course? Here's the scary thing about that. If you look at all the coaching tenures at OSU since Ralph, they all seem to be somewhat similar. Hire a new coach, he gets a couple of decent recruiting classes, his teams peak after two or three years, things don't work out on the court, recruiting declines, fire the coach after 5 or 6 years. The cupboard is completely bare, we hire a new coach. Rinse and repeat over and over and over and over. Tinkle hasn't proven to be a good recruiter / evaluator of talent. History shows that an OSU coach does their best recruiting after year one or two. Tinkle seemed to struggle in recruiting after all that monentum of his NCAA tourney season. So how well is he going to be able to recruit after a 4 - 28 season??? Based on previous OSU coaching tenures, the decline appears to be happening AGAIN.
So what do we do?
For the life of me the one thing that I can't figure out is why we haven't been able to bring in a coach that can turn this thing. Who is that on? The A.D.'s? The President? Oregon State? Corvallis? And if we have to do it AGAIN, are we just going to strike out AGAIN???
As a guy that feel in love with basketball because of watching Ralph's teams play as a kid, and then suffered through the post-Ralph years, what is it going to take for this program to be consistently relavant? I really like Tinkle as a man, and thought we had our guy after two years, but I still watch every minute of every game and this year has just been brutal.
So what do we do???
What do we do? Recognize that, because OSU cannot compete for top-notch recruits with UA, UW, ASU, UCLA, Stanford, CAL, USC ..., we will never be a seriously competitive NCAA Men's baketball program AND we should stop expecting that not to be the case. Really? Is this what you were saying about Baseball pre-Casey and WBB pre Rueck? I get the frustration but your doom and gloom, woe is me attitude seems very defeatist.
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,798
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Jan 23, 2017 9:58:53 GMT -8
Pulling the trigger on coaching changes after a year or two also sends the wrong message to any potential hires out there - especially if the cupboard is bare or near bare - any candidate will wonder what kind of patience the fan base and administration will have with the rebuilding process.
I am not an advocate of removing Wayne Tinkle based on this year's performance. I think his return to the Big Dance (regardless of who recruited the players that were on that team) alone has earned him a one or two year mulligan. Coupled with the mitigating circumstances with injuries.
That said, I find myself deeply concerned about the team and the product on the floor. I have started to scratch my itch on Beaver college hoops solely with the women's team. I used to follow both, but cannot bear to watch too much of the men's games this year.
Here is hoping a healthy team next year, with the addition of the two recruits thus far (and perhaps some transfers or additional juco gambles) can get us back to fielding a competitive team......
Go Beavs!
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lefty
Freshman
Posts: 438
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Post by lefty on Jan 23, 2017 10:19:43 GMT -8
Two things!!! 1. Stay the course. I am extremely disappointed in men's bb this year and don't understand the lack of heart this team has. I had high expectations after last two years and even though we lost a lot of players and have injuries I expected more effort, toughness, pride and heart than this team has demonstrated. The statement of us not being able to recruit and compete with the big city schools (UCLA,USC, AZ etc) is pure and complete nonsense (was going to use another acronym). Tell that to Gonzaga or the ucks. Basketball because of the size of the team any school should be able to be competitive. Look what Scott has done with the Woman's program!~
That brings me to #2....GO TO MORE WOMEN"S GAMES!!
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Post by mountainbeaver on Jan 23, 2017 10:53:09 GMT -8
Seems like most posters have completely forgotten the last 2 years which far exceeded anything we'd seen in the last 25. This year is really painful and ugly to watch. But, I'm also willing to concede that this year may simply be a constellation of a lot of bad luck including an unbalanced senior class last year, 2 big unexpected losses (Duvivier and Bruce), an extremely small junior class, having 2 freshman dealing with different challenges (Kone not yet 100% post ACL and Dew apparently not 100% on the academic side), and the obvious injury problems with TT and others. We are not surprisingly a mess right now.
I'm going to wait and see what we look like after next year before I start questioning Tinkle. Basketball can turn around quickly. I like Tink and think he's a good fit here. Time will tell whether his recruits will get it done. But at this point we're awfully early in the process.
Finally, I think there was a lot more to last years team than GP2 who I loved. Tinkle really had the guys closing out games well with good defense and game management which had been sorely lacking in previous regimes. GP 2 was a great defender with some offensive liabilities which is why he's laboring in the D league right now. This years ugly scorching by fire may produce next leaders. If it doesn't, than maybe it's pitchfork time, but I'm going to give it a rest for now. Thank God we've got the women's team!
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Post by nabeav on Jan 23, 2017 11:29:54 GMT -8
My best guess is that for decades, the sole focus of the men's basketball program has been getting back to the Dance. That was the ultimate goal: the top of the mountain for them. Well, they did it last year, and as a seven seed, which far exceeded I think even the most optimistic fans expectations. I think there was a realization that there wasn't another summit to climb - even at peak health, the defections and large graduating class made getting back to the tournament a pipe dream. I just don't think there was a goal for this team to aim for, and we're seeing what happens without a common focus for the team.
Fortunately, this turd sandwich of a season will provide everyone with the motivation they need for next season. If it doesn't, then some people (be it coaches or players) are stealing money from taxpayers and need to be held accountable.
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Post by jdogge on Jan 23, 2017 11:31:30 GMT -8
What do we do? Recognize that, because OSU cannot compete for top-notch recruits with UA, UW, ASU, UCLA, Stanford, CAL, USC ..., we will never be a seriously competitive NCAA Men's baketball program AND we should stop expecting that not to be the case. Really? Is this what you were saying about Baseball pre-Casey and WBB pre Rueck? I get the frustration but your doom and gloom, woe is me attitude seems very defeatist. Baseball and WBB are very different than football and men's basketball. In the case of baseball, it's not meant as a revenue-generating sport and it's cost structure is lower than football. With respect to WBB, it's just really taking hold. We're probably where men's basketball was in the 60s with one or two real dominant teams and a number of very good ones. But not what we've seen from the men's program where no one school is as dominant as UCLA was in the 60s. With WBB, it was Tennessee and, now, UCONN. If Pat Summitt hadn't become ill, Tennessee could very well, still be dominating. A lot of it, at least from OSU's position, has to do with costs. Do WBB and baseball spend as much per capita as football for tutorial programs? Equipment? Travel? Coaching salaries? Promotion and public relations? Men's basketball is an anomaly. I don't have any answers. Recruiting has a lot to do with it, though. Defeatist or realistic? How many winning seasons has football had over the last 50? Over the last ten, how many top ten recruiting classes has OSU had? Top twenty? Top thirty? How many first round draft choices? Recruiting. Geez, let's look at that. TV Market, we're among the smallest and shared with Convict U. Ambiance: geez Louise, we certainly aren't LA, SF, Seattle, or the Denver Strip. Look up boring in your Funk and Wagnall's and you'll see photos of Corvallis. Academics: Yes, Virginia, athletes care about after their pro career. Stanford, UCLA, and Cal are considered among the top universities in the world. USC and UW are top twenty programs in the US; Colorado and Utah are in the top fifty. OSU? Ranked 121 with our top programs in Forestry and Agriculture. Things are improving (Nuclear engineering, Zoology, kinesiology [formerly Exercise and Sport Science]), but nowhere near the others. Even Oregon has a law school and top twenty-five business school, proven generators of alumni donations. Alumni economics: Yeah, all those rich farmers and forest rangers are rushing to donate their nickles and dimes to the cause while the others [not WSU] have alum writing gazillion dollar checks. Realistic.
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Post by ochobeavo on Jan 23, 2017 14:12:46 GMT -8
Really? Is this what you were saying about Baseball pre-Casey and WBB pre Rueck? I get the frustration but your doom and gloom, woe is me attitude seems very defeatist. Baseball and WBB are very different than football and men's basketball. In the case of baseball, it's not meant as a revenue-generating sport and it's cost structure is lower than football. With respect to WBB, it's just really taking hold. We're probably men's basketball was in the 60s with one or two real dominant teams and a number of very good ones. But not what we've seen from the men's program where no one school is as dominant as UCLA was in the 60s. With WBB, it was Tennessee and, now, UCONN. If Pat Summitt hadn't become ill, Tennessee could very well, still be dominating. A lot of it, at least from OSU's position, has to do with costs. Do WBB and baseball spend as much per capita as football for tutorial programs? Equipment? Travel? Coaching salaries? Promotion and public relations? Men's basketball is an anomaly. I don't have any answers. Recruiting has a lot to do with it, though. Defeatist or realistic? How many winning seasons has football had over the last 50? Over the last ten, how many top ten recruiting classes has OSU had? Top twenty? Top thirty? How many first round draft choices? Recruiting. Geez, let's look at that. TV Market, we're among the smallest and shared with Convict U. Ambiance: geez Louise, we certainly aren't LA, SF, Seattle, or the Denver Strip. Look up boring in your Funk and Wagnall's and you'll see photos of Corvallis. Academics: Yes, Virginia, athletes care about after their pro career. Stanford, UCLA, and Cal are considered among the top universities in the world. USC and UW are top twenty programs in the US; Colorado and Utah are in the top fifty. OSU? Ranked 121 with our top programs in Forestry and Agriculture. Things are improving (Nuclear engineering, Zoology, kinesiology [formerly Exercise and Sport Science]), but nowhere near the others. Even Oregon has a law school and top twenty-five business school, proven generators of alumni donations. Alumni economics: Yeah, all those rich farmers and forest rangers are rushing to donate their nickles and dimes to the cause while the others [not WSU] have alum writing gazillion dollar checks. Realistic. Gonzaga seems to be doing okay against all those odds - tv market, middle-of-nowhere, 6000 seat arena. Can we just make it so and have whatever they are having?
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