|
Post by atownbeaver on Sept 17, 2024 16:37:44 GMT -8
The whole P4 P5 designation isn't really about auto bids, I think it's about access to playoff money I'm not so sure whoever makes that decision has ever said the Pac 12 is completely out of the picture permanently... they are essentially "suspended" for now and only have until summer of '26 to right the ship. At which point, if they succeed, it might be revisited? The P4 leagues would to have to vote to reinstate us as a power conference. It won't happen. But, if we are considered the best of the non-P4, we may be able to negotiate a higher distribution from the playoff in regards to the other G5 conferences. OSU is getting $3.6M in playoff payments until 2028... All other G5 schools will get about $2M each. G5s get 10% of the playoff media, in 2024 ESPN is paying $1.3 Billion, so napkin math is $130M across 62 schools. Big 10 and SEC get a 58% of the Playoffs, ACC and Big-12 get 32%. So yeah. they are never actually letting us back in willingly. with that said, when media negotiations are up again, we will see what we see happens. Be as strong as you can be is all I can say.
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 17, 2024 17:11:44 GMT -8
The P4 leagues would to have to vote to reinstate us as a power conference. It won't happen. But, if we are considered the best of the non-P4, we may be able to negotiate a higher distribution from the playoff in regards to the other G5 conferences. OSU is getting $3.6M in playoff payments until 2028... All other G5 schools will get about $2M each. G5s get 10% of the playoff media, in 2024 ESPN is paying $1.3 Billion, so napkin math is $130M across 62 schools. Big 10 and SEC get a 58% of the Playoffs, ACC and Big-12 get 32%. So yeah. they are never actually letting us back in willingly. with that said, when media negotiations are up again, we will see what we see happens. Be as strong as you can be is all I can say. The issue for the P4 is: 67 P4 teams. 134 FBS teams. (There are two transitional members, which complicate things, as well as whether they can run things with 67 members.) Within the P4, 34 Big Ten and SEC teams out of 67 P4 teams. Big Ten and the SEC only maintain control, if they have more teams lined up. They can bring in the Pac-12 to maintain control. They can add teams. For the P4, they have to add teams, add the Pac-12, or lose control. (Or they could vote to blow up the whole thing and start over.) It is not as simple as it might seem. Terrible example, but it is like Mussolini with King Victor Emmanuel III in 1943. You have a lot of power and authority on paper. But you never know when the king will kick you out of office and arrest you.
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 17, 2024 17:21:35 GMT -8
I would assume they mean USF. UCF is in the Big 12 already. They're not leaving. Sorry, you are correct - USF. I wonder if that is for recruiting. Grab UTSA, as well. UNLV is 11. One more for 12. Maybe Wyoming to try and keep basketball manageable?
|
|
|
Post by vhalum92 on Sept 18, 2024 8:15:38 GMT -8
What is a little odd to me is we were so focused on getting back to a conference of schools in our region/geography.
I love the idea of adding UNLV. No issues with Texas, that is a recruiting hot bed.... but adding schools from Florida, Tennessee, and Louisiana? We are clearly stepping away from our region.
As a fan... I'm down to visit all of those places for a road game.... so I'm good it just appears we are making a shift. I think the shift is necessary to get the best schools we can to be added to the Pac brand.
Adding those 4 schools had a great impact on moving the needle in our direction and showing we are going to rebuild the Pac...
|
|
|
Post by ochobeavo on Sept 18, 2024 8:28:59 GMT -8
What is a little odd to me is we were so focused on getting back to a conference of schools in our region/geography. I love the idea of adding UNLV. No issues with Texas, that is a recruiting hot bed.... but adding schools from Florida, Tennessee, and Louisiana? We are clearly stepping away from our region. As a fan... I'm down to visit all of those places for a road game.... so I'm good it just appears we are making a shift. I think the shift is necessary to get the best schools we can to be added to the Pac brand. Adding those 4 schools had a great impact on moving the needle in our direction and showing we are going to rebuild the Pac... Preach.. possibly a road trip line up of Memphis, New Orleans, Las Vegas, San Diego.. maybe San Antonio? Ft. Collins and Boise are solid. Suck it Fresno.
|
|
|
Post by flyfishinbeav on Sept 18, 2024 9:02:25 GMT -8
What is a little odd to me is we were so focused on getting back to a conference of schools in our region/geography. I love the idea of adding UNLV. No issues with Texas, that is a recruiting hot bed.... but adding schools from Florida, Tennessee, and Louisiana? We are clearly stepping away from our region. As a fan... I'm down to visit all of those places for a road game.... so I'm good it just appears we are making a shift. I think the shift is necessary to get the best schools we can to be added to the Pac brand. Adding those 4 schools had a great impact on moving the needle in our direction and showing we are going to rebuild the Pac... How many fans do you think want to travel across the country for a football game though? I guess if you're retired, with lots of disposable income maybe.
|
|
|
Post by flyfishinbeav on Sept 18, 2024 9:13:40 GMT -8
OSU is getting $3.6M in playoff payments until 2028... All other G5 schools will get about $2M each. G5s get 10% of the playoff media, in 2024 ESPN is paying $1.3 Billion, so napkin math is $130M across 62 schools. Big 10 and SEC get a 58% of the Playoffs, ACC and Big-12 get 32%. So yeah. they are never actually letting us back in willingly. with that said, when media negotiations are up again, we will see what we see happens. Be as strong as you can be is all I can say. The issue for the P4 is: 67 P4 teams. 134 FBS teams. (There are two transitional members, which complicate things, as well as whether they can run things with 67 members.) Within the P4, 34 Big Ten and SEC teams out of 67 P4 teams. Big Ten and the SEC only maintain control, if they have more teams lined up. They can bring in the Pac-12 to maintain control. They can add teams. For the P4, they have to add teams, add the Pac-12, or lose control. (Or they could vote to blow up the whole thing and start over.) It is not as simple as it might seem. Terrible example, but it is like Mussolini with King Victor Emmanuel III in 1943. You have a lot of power and authority on paper. But you never know when the king will kick you out of office and arrest you. Pardon my ignorance, as I don't really care all that much about the details, but why would they "lose control" if they don't add members? The B1G, and SEC are worth exponentially more in media dollars regardless of anything else. Add in the portal, and every player in the country wants to "make it" to the B1G, or SEC. This ability to poach talent at will fuels the NIL economy at the highest level in college football. That will not change any time soon
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 18, 2024 9:21:32 GMT -8
What is a little odd to me is we were so focused on getting back to a conference of schools in our region/geography. I love the idea of adding UNLV. No issues with Texas, that is a recruiting hot bed.... but adding schools from Florida, Tennessee, and Louisiana? We are clearly stepping away from our region. As a fan... I'm down to visit all of those places for a road game.... so I'm good it just appears we are making a shift. I think the shift is necessary to get the best schools we can to be added to the Pac brand. Adding those 4 schools had a great impact on moving the needle in our direction and showing we are going to rebuild the Pac... How many fans do you think want to travel across the country for a football game though? I guess if you're retired, with lots of disposable income maybe. Maybe not too many. But there are numerous OSU alums in the DC/Research Triangle area who would probably love to see the Beavers play a game without having to travel clear across the country to the West Coast to do so. It's a fairly easy drive from DC to Winston-Salem and Raleigh/Durham is about 100 miles away. We played at Temple in 2002 and there were lots of Beaver fans there.
|
|
|
Post by flyfishinbeav on Sept 18, 2024 9:24:47 GMT -8
How many fans do you think want to travel across the country for a football game though? I guess if you're retired, with lots of disposable income maybe. Maybe not too many. But there are numerous OSU alums in the DC/Research Triangle area who would probably love to see the Beavers play a game without having to travel clear across the country to the West Coast to do so. It's a fairly easy drive from DC to Winston-Salem and Raleigh/Durham is about 100 miles away. We played at Temple in 2002 and there were lots of Beaver fans there. Yea, it would be cool for far flung Beavs for sure. For schools like Michigan, Notre Dame, and even hole, to a lesser extent, it's great because they have a nationwide band wagon. We don't have that.
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 18, 2024 10:17:17 GMT -8
The issue for the P4 is: 67 P4 teams. 134 FBS teams. (There are two transitional members, which complicate things, as well as whether they can run things with 67 members.) Within the P4, 34 Big Ten and SEC teams out of 67 P4 teams. Big Ten and the SEC only maintain control, if they have more teams lined up. They can bring in the Pac-12 to maintain control. They can add teams. For the P4, they have to add teams, add the Pac-12, or lose control. (Or they could vote to blow up the whole thing and start over.) It is not as simple as it might seem. Terrible example, but it is like Mussolini with King Victor Emmanuel III in 1943. You have a lot of power and authority on paper. But you never know when the king will kick you out of office and arrest you. Pardon my ignorance, as I don't really care all that much about the details, but why would they "lose control" if they don't add members? The B1G, and SEC are worth exponentially more in media dollars regardless of anything else. Add in the portal, and every player in the country wants to "make it" to the B1G, or SEC. This ability to poach talent at will fuels the NIL economy at the highest level in college football. That will not change any time soon I am talking about the FBS framework and the rules surrounding FBS. The B1G & SEC are a majority of the P4, and the P4 is a majority of all "full" FBS teams. They have control, because they can vote in a block. And I think that that is true, unless they get outnumbered. At that point, they will have to expand, or they will lose voting power. The P4 can expand by adding teams, or they can make a fifth "Power" conference to maintain control (and to break ties between the P4, which has been a concern in the past). They can do this by increasing the P5 conference's share of money from the CFP. I think that the SEC is kind of keen for the ACC to fall apart to get to 18 teams like the Big Ten, so they are not outnumbered at the highest echelon of conferences. That will give the ACC the opportunity to backfill and help the other three maintain control. But money is largely irrelevant without control. If the number of non-P4 teams gets to 68, and they can vote in a block, they can outvote the P4, which will be disruptive to the P4. The easiest solutions would be additional expansion or to add a P5 conference. That said, the P4 does always have the option to just blow the whole thing up and start something else.
|
|
|
Post by flyfishinbeav on Sept 18, 2024 10:24:21 GMT -8
Pardon my ignorance, as I don't really care all that much about the details, but why would they "lose control" if they don't add members? The B1G, and SEC are worth exponentially more in media dollars regardless of anything else. Add in the portal, and every player in the country wants to "make it" to the B1G, or SEC. This ability to poach talent at will fuels the NIL economy at the highest level in college football. That will not change any time soon I am talking about the FBS framework and the rules surrounding FBS. The B1G & SEC are a majority of the P4, and the P4 is a majority of all "full" FBS teams. They have control, because they can vote in a block. And I think that that is true, unless they get outnumbered. At that point, they will have to expand, or they will lose voting power. The P4 can expand by adding teams, or they can make a fifth "Power" conference to maintain control (and to break ties between the P4, which has been a concern in the past). They can do this by increasing the P5 conference's share of money from the CFP. I think that the SEC is kind of keen for the ACC to fall apart to get to 18 teams like the Big Ten, so they are not outnumbered at the highest echelon of conferences. That will give the ACC the opportunity to backfill and help the other three maintain control. But money is largely irrelevant without control. If the number of non-P4 teams gets to 68, and they can vote in a block, they can outvote the P4, which will be disruptive to the P4. The easiest solutions would be additional expansion or to add a P5 conference. That said, the P4 does always have the option to just blow the whole thing up and start something else. So what you're saying is, by getting more teams, they just tighten the stranglehold more. Cuz even if they somehow don't have a majority, I don't see that slowing down the machine.....like you said, they will just blow it up and reinvent it. I think the ship has left the harbor a while back
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 18, 2024 10:35:31 GMT -8
I also think WSU/OSU have gotten wind of Clemson and FSU re-opening negotiations with the ACC to restructure the revenue sharing model so they get a bigger slice of the pie. It's becoming more and more apparent the ACC isn't going to break up, and we needed to get cracking on a new league.
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Sept 18, 2024 11:18:22 GMT -8
The issue for the P4 is: 67 P4 teams. 134 FBS teams. (There are two transitional members, which complicate things, as well as whether they can run things with 67 members.) Within the P4, 34 Big Ten and SEC teams out of 67 P4 teams. Big Ten and the SEC only maintain control, if they have more teams lined up. They can bring in the Pac-12 to maintain control. They can add teams. For the P4, they have to add teams, add the Pac-12, or lose control. (Or they could vote to blow up the whole thing and start over.) It is not as simple as it might seem. Terrible example, but it is like Mussolini with King Victor Emmanuel III in 1943. You have a lot of power and authority on paper. But you never know when the king will kick you out of office and arrest you. Pardon my ignorance, as I don't really care all that much about the details, but why would they "lose control" if they don't add members? The B1G, and SEC are worth exponentially more in media dollars regardless of anything else. Add in the portal, and every player in the country wants to "make it" to the B1G, or SEC. This ability to poach talent at will fuels the NIL economy at the highest level in college football. That will not change any time soon They don't lose any control. CFP isn't control by individual votes of schools. Nor is "power"/autonomous classification. One just has to look at the new CFP contract and payout to see who has the power... SEC/B10 share 58% of the total revenue... G5 schools SPLIT 9%. Does anyone think they "agreed" to that, or that being "outnumbered" had anything to do with that? ESPN/Disney basically negotiated with the SEC/B10. They did not get everything they wanted... guaranteed (2) byes each playoff was one. But, they got the one thing that is most important to allow the separation to continue and grow... $$
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 18, 2024 11:32:58 GMT -8
Pardon my ignorance, as I don't really care all that much about the details, but why would they "lose control" if they don't add members? The B1G, and SEC are worth exponentially more in media dollars regardless of anything else. Add in the portal, and every player in the country wants to "make it" to the B1G, or SEC. This ability to poach talent at will fuels the NIL economy at the highest level in college football. That will not change any time soon They don't lose any control. CFP isn't control by individual votes of schools. Nor is "power"/autonomous classification. One just has to look at the new CFP contract and payout to see who has the power... SEC/B10 share 58% of the total revenue... G5 schools SPLIT 9%. Does anyone think they "agreed" to that, or that being "outnumbered" had anything to do with that? ESPN/Disney basically negotiated with the SEC/B10. They did not get everything they wanted... guaranteed (2) byes each playoff was one. But, they got the one thing that is most important to allow the separation to continue and grow... $$ Even though it is independent of the NCAA, the CFP is an offshoot of the FBS structure. If you lose control of the FBS structure, you lose control of the FBS structure, you can lose control of the CFP.
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 18, 2024 11:43:14 GMT -8
What is a little odd to me is we were so focused on getting back to a conference of schools in our region/geography. I love the idea of adding UNLV. No issues with Texas, that is a recruiting hot bed.... but adding schools from Florida, Tennessee, and Louisiana? We are clearly stepping away from our region. As a fan... I'm down to visit all of those places for a road game.... so I'm good it just appears we are making a shift. I think the shift is necessary to get the best schools we can to be added to the Pac brand. Adding those 4 schools had a great impact on moving the needle in our direction and showing we are going to rebuild the Pac... How many fans do you think want to travel across the country for a football game though? I guess if you're retired, with lots of disposable income maybe. How many fans actually go to every away game? I don't know. If they can keep it to 1 game a season, my guess is little would change much as far as away game fan attendance goes. If I were a team following fan that would go to all but 1 away game, I'd probably ditch Fresno first (after 1 visit to see the Underground Gardens) and enjoy visiting 1 venue back east every year. I'd try to make it work the years we don't play at Fresno. If I were a fan living in the central or eastern time zones, I'd be thrilled to go to a game back east.
|
|