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Post by rgeorge on Jun 7, 2024 8:00:08 GMT -8
The WNBA is not what the PGA was, nor will it be what it is now. Ever. Not in the US and certainly not world wide. Clark isn't Tiger and doesn't have, nor will have the cache, interest, financial influence, or world wide appeal. Clark is, for lack of a better word, a "fad". Folks are using her/this to cash in while they can. How other WNBA player act is in them, but Clark is certainly not making the league much more than it is. Let's see if the WNBA can even support itself without the NBA "owning" them. I’m not sure how Clark could possibly be considered a fad. She plays a unique brand of basketball, especially on the girls side. Very few girls have ever played with that extended range, the step back game, passing, and some personality to go with it. Not to mention, the all time leading scorer. She’s legit and going to be a big part of the growth of the women’s game. Sabrina has a lot to do with it too. A’ja Wilson doesn’t get the attention she should but she’s an absolute stud too. But Caitlin’s impact on women’s basketball is undeniably the most popular female basketball player of all time and the fact that she’s packing 17,000 people into every arena she walks in proves it. See "Sabrina"... the attention she got vs now. Fad... "an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived." Let's see how long 17k fans pay to see a WNBA game? And as stated she's not Tiger, nor the is the WNBA the PGA. But, your mileage may vary! |
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Post by beaverstever on Jun 7, 2024 8:38:38 GMT -8
I still have trouble wrapping my mind around the mass exodus of a team that was going to be a preseason top 5, and legitimate national championship contender. The first person that left went to a team that will also be on a legitimate contender (probably even moreso than OSU intact, given USC has by far IMO the top 2 players in college WBB). Additionally, she went to a team that will continue to get a TON of media attention due to Juju being a generational talent. That definitely was not going to happen at OSU, and that aspect was clearly something she cares about. Once she departed, she triggered everybody needing to re-evaluate, give what she represented to that team in general. The WCC move was already a major factor anyway, but losing the player that represented the loyalty that enabled the core to be patient and make the run clearly had a massive impact on subsequent decisions by other players. |
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Post by fridaynightlights on Jun 7, 2024 8:51:33 GMT -8
Catlin Clark has increased viewers and in person attendance of wbb exponentially, Sabrina did not bring near the eye balls as Clark has. Clark has been talked about continuously on national sports talk radio, Sabrina was not a national sports topic. Clark's fame and celebrity is on a completely different level. Nike is not investing a 28 million dollar endorsement deal in her, which is unparalleled in wbb, if they thought she was a fad.
This from Jimmy Traina of SI who makes a living studying sports media: "Bottom line: There hasn't been an individual (Clark) responsible for a sport's ratings growth like Clark since Tiger Woods".
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 7, 2024 9:06:18 GMT -8
I still have trouble wrapping my mind around the mass exodus of a team that was going to be a preseason top 5, and legitimate national championship contender. The first person that left went to a team that will also be on a legitimate contender (probably even moreso than OSU intact, given USC has by far IMO the top 2 players in college WBB). Additionally, she went to a team that will continue to get a TON of media attention due to Juju being a generational talent. That definitely was not going to happen at OSU, and that aspect was clearly something she cares about. Once she departed, she triggered everybody needing to re-evaluate, give what she represented to that team in general. The WCC move was already a major factor anyway, but losing the player that represented the loyalty that enabled the core to be patient and make the run clearly had a massive impact on subsequent decisions by other players. Yep.....it was clear to me that that player kind of influenced the mass exodus. Short of saying that outright, she gave plenty of clues following her announcement to the portal. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 7, 2024 9:10:42 GMT -8
Catlin Clark has increased viewers and in person attendance of wbb exponentially, Sabrina did not bring near the eye balls as Clark has. Clark has been talked about continuously on national sports talk radio, Sabrina was not a national sports topic. Clark's fame and celebrity is on a completely different level. Nike is not investing a 28 million dollar endorsement deal in her, which is unparalleled in wbb, if they thought she was a fad. This from Jimmy Traina of SI who makes a living studying sports media: "Bottom line: There hasn't been an individual (Clark) responsible for a sport's ratings growth like Clark since Tiger Woods". And instead of embracing it, the rest of the WNBA is jealous! For me, this is just more anecdotal evidence that competitive female sports is way more cutthroat then mens |
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Post by rgeorge on Jun 7, 2024 9:15:10 GMT -8
Catlin Clark has increased viewers and in person attendance of wbb exponentially, Sabrina did not bring near the eye balls as Clark has. Clark has been talked about continuously on national sports talk radio, Sabrina was not a national sports topic. Clark's fame and celebrity is on a completely different level. Nike is not investing a 28 million dollar endorsement deal in her, which is unparalleled in wbb, if they thought she was a fad. This from Jimmy Traina of SI who makes a living studying sports media: "Bottom line: There hasn't been an individual (Clark) responsible for a sport's ratings growth like Clark since Tiger Woods". Lol... now this instant. So, until sustained it's a fad. BTW... Nike signed Sabrina to a $24 mil deal first. And, Nike thrives on profit making fads. You strike while the iron is hot. And, the comparison to Tiger by anyone is ludicrous. Plus Tiger didn't polarize the PGA/his competitors. Most of the hype is over attendance which won't be sustained. And, a foul. Again... time will tell |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jun 7, 2024 9:29:58 GMT -8
Catlin Clark has increased viewers and in person attendance of wbb exponentially, Sabrina did not bring near the eye balls as Clark has. Clark has been talked about continuously on national sports talk radio, Sabrina was not a national sports topic. Clark's fame and celebrity is on a completely different level. Nike is not investing a 28 million dollar endorsement deal in her, which is unparalleled in wbb, if they thought she was a fad. This from Jimmy Traina of SI who makes a living studying sports media: "Bottom line: There hasn't been an individual (Clark) responsible for a sport's ratings growth like Clark since Tiger Woods". Lol... now this instant. So, until sustained it's a fad. BTW... Nike signed Sabrina to a $24 mil deal first. And, Nike thrives on profit making fads. You strike while the iron is hot. And, the comparison to Tiger by anyone is ludicrous. Plus Tiger didn't polarize the PGA/his competitors. Most of the hype is over attendance which won't be sustained. And, a foul. Again... time will tell I don't think Clark is the one doing the polarizing. It's her fan base and the media. If you heard Geno yesterday on the Dan Patrick Show, everything he said is correct. The media and fans expecting her to be the MVP of the league in her first year is insane and extremely disrespectful to other WNBA players. That's why other players put a target on her. He also said she's not physically strong enough yet or quick enough to get away from the physicality. These are similar issues to what Sabrina faced in her 1st year or two. She's got to get stronger and adjust to the physicality and she will be fine. But comparing her to Tiger is ridiculous......and creating more issues as other players are looking to take shots at her. |
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Post by beaver94 on Jun 7, 2024 11:52:21 GMT -8
Lol... now this instant. So, until sustained it's a fad. BTW... Nike signed Sabrina to a $24 mil deal first. And, Nike thrives on profit making fads. You strike while the iron is hot. And, the comparison to Tiger by anyone is ludicrous. Plus Tiger didn't polarize the PGA/his competitors. Most of the hype is over attendance which won't be sustained. And, a foul. Again... time will tell I don't think Clark is the one doing the polarizing. It's her fan base and the media. If you heard Geno yesterday on the Dan Patrick Show, everything he said is correct. The media and fans expecting her to be the MVP of the league in her first year is insane and extremely disrespectful to other WNBA players. That's why other players put a target on her. He also said she's not physically strong enough yet or quick enough to get away from the physicality. These are similar issues to what Sabrina faced in her 1st year or two. She's got to get stronger and adjust to the physicality and she will be fine. But comparing her to Tiger is ridiculous......and creating more issues as other players are looking to take shots at her. I didn’t hear the interview but it makes total sense. It’s not like stars in the NBA, and other leagues, haven’t gone through similar things when they first get into the league. Even Jordan, Kobe, and LaBron had to earn it on the court at times. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jun 7, 2024 12:01:18 GMT -8
Lol... now this instant. So, until sustained it's a fad. BTW... Nike signed Sabrina to a $24 mil deal first. And, Nike thrives on profit making fads. You strike while the iron is hot. And, the comparison to Tiger by anyone is ludicrous. Plus Tiger didn't polarize the PGA/his competitors. Most of the hype is over attendance which won't be sustained. And, a foul. Again... time will tell I don't think Clark is the one doing the polarizing. It's her fan base and the media. If you heard Geno yesterday on the Dan Patrick Show, everything he said is correct. The media and fans expecting her to be the MVP of the league in her first year is insane and extremely disrespectful to other WNBA players. That's why other players put a target on her. He also said she's not physically strong enough yet or quick enough to get away from the physicality. These are similar issues to what Sabrina faced in her 1st year or two. She's got to get stronger and adjust to the physicality and she will be fine. But comparing her to Tiger is ridiculous......and creating more issues as other players are looking to take shots at her. No blame to Clark at all... polarizing seems to be the goal of most media outlets these days. Lets find two polarizing ideas, in this case Clark and Reese or Clark and Carter or Clark and ??, and splash whatever interpretations they want all over the web. But, the Tiger and PGA comparisons are a bit much to ignore. The WBNA would love to have even the pre-Tiger average PGA salaries. The WNBA is not is what, it's 27th or 28th season and barely making profits. There have many "game changing", highly recognizable (times have certainly changed how much so), and arguably more talented women come and go and the WNBA is still what it is. The new 3-on-3 might further the game more than any individual. If it can sustain itself in the off season, players will not have to seek $$ overseas and let interest in the US wane. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 7, 2024 12:26:47 GMT -8
Catlin Clark has increased viewers and in person attendance of wbb exponentially, Sabrina did not bring near the eye balls as Clark has. Clark has been talked about continuously on national sports talk radio, Sabrina was not a national sports topic. Clark's fame and celebrity is on a completely different level. Nike is not investing a 28 million dollar endorsement deal in her, which is unparalleled in wbb, if they thought she was a fad. This from Jimmy Traina of SI who makes a living studying sports media: "Bottom line: There hasn't been an individual (Clark) responsible for a sport's ratings growth like Clark since Tiger Woods". Lol... now this instant. So, until sustained it's a fad. BTW... Nike signed Sabrina to a $24 mil deal first. And, Nike thrives on profit making fads. You strike while the iron is hot. And, the comparison to Tiger by anyone is ludicrous. Plus Tiger didn't polarize the PGA/his competitors. Most of the hype is over attendance which won't be sustained. And, a foul. Again... time will tell Like Woods, Clark has turned on millions of casual fans to a sport they might otherwise have ignored. One can have a Tiger Woods-like impact on their sport without being Tiger, ie also Messi/Beckham/Rooney in the MLS. Created millions of new fans, primarily from people in this country who never followed soccer. Of course the PGA brass loved Tiger. The WNBA brass loves Clark. But there were plenty of Tiger's PGA peers who thought the guy was a complete a$$hole, but unlike the idiots in the WNBA they kept their mouth shut or just said mindless platitudes because they realized how much money he meant for their sport. Read the outstanding Tiger bio by written by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian if you doubt that. Sabrina's contract with Nike was payback for her four years at Oregon. They couldn't pay her then so they're paying her now, just as Nike did with Joey Harrington when he turned pro and got an endorsement contract no one else would have given him. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Jun 7, 2024 12:50:31 GMT -8
The WNBA is not what the PGA was, nor will it be what it is now. Ever. Not in the US and certainly not world wide. Clark isn't Tiger and doesn't have, nor will have the cache, interest, financial influence, or world wide appeal. Clark is, for lack of a better word, a "fad". Folks are using her/this to cash in while they can. How other WNBA player act is in them, but Clark is certainly not making the league much more than it is. Let's see if the WNBA can even support itself without the NBA "owning" them. Wasn't Ionescu supposed to be the WNBA's "transformational" player? What happened? |
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Post by rgeorge on Jun 7, 2024 12:51:11 GMT -8
Lol... now this instant. So, until sustained it's a fad. BTW... Nike signed Sabrina to a $24 mil deal first. And, Nike thrives on profit making fads. You strike while the iron is hot. And, the comparison to Tiger by anyone is ludicrous. Plus Tiger didn't polarize the PGA/his competitors. Most of the hype is over attendance which won't be sustained. And, a foul. Again... time will tell Like Woods, Clark has turned on millions of casual fans to a sport they might otherwise have ignore. One can have a Tiger Woods-like impact on their sport without being Tiger, ie also Messi/Beckham in the MLS. Created millions of new fans, primarily from people in this country who never followed soccer. Of course the PGA brass loved Tiger. The WMBA brass loves Clark. But there were plenty of Tiger's PGA peers who thought the guy was a complete a$$hole, but unlike the idiots in the WNBA they kept their mouth shut or just said mindless platitudes because they realized how much money he meant for their sport. Read the outstanding Tiger bio by written by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian if you doubt that. Sabrina's contract with Nike was payback for her four years at Oregon. They couldn't pay her then so they're paying her now, just as Nike did with Joey Harrington when he turned pro and got an endorsement contract no one else would have given him. "Casual" = Fad. Unless you think these casual fans are sticking around? See every temporarily successful team, player, sport. And, Tiger-like is not a few months. But, you can justify your views any way you'd like. But, I think there have been several players that were seen to be WNBA "game changers" and other than the normal growth didn't have the impact that was hyped. The comparison to the PGA/Tiger is ridiculous on every level... as is the MLS. And, although MLS average attendance has gone up about 5,000 over the last 28 seasons, it is due to more teams, more games played in larger venues vs due to a couple of quick "fixes". MLS attendance regularly fluctuates, -17% to +12%, and has a ton to due with which major market team is having success. LA, Seattle, and lately Atlanta have really skewed the averages. The MLS has a successful business model and has been growing, the adding of foreign stars boosted what was already happening. And what other players thought wasn't the issue. The media is usually the culprit, and with Tiger his fame didn't polarize and his "effect" has lasted decades. And even thought the media is responsible, Clark's "fame" has been polarizing since the scoring record came into the discussion. And, as I stated and will stand by my opinion... Clark will not cause any enduring, earth shattering changes to the WNBA, just as the extremely talented women before her didn't. But the new 3-on-3 has a chance to. And, of course that was initiated and found backing because of WNBA stars that have had sustained effects on the league due to longer careers, yet without much of the fluff fanfare. But, it's my opinion. To each their own. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 7, 2024 13:33:39 GMT -8
Like Woods, Clark has turned on millions of casual fans to a sport they might otherwise have ignore. One can have a Tiger Woods-like impact on their sport without being Tiger, ie also Messi/Beckham in the MLS. Created millions of new fans, primarily from people in this country who never followed soccer. Of course the PGA brass loved Tiger. The WMBA brass loves Clark. But there were plenty of Tiger's PGA peers who thought the guy was a complete a$$hole, but unlike the idiots in the WNBA they kept their mouth shut or just said mindless platitudes because they realized how much money he meant for their sport. Read the outstanding Tiger bio by written by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian if you doubt that. Sabrina's contract with Nike was payback for her four years at Oregon. They couldn't pay her then so they're paying her now, just as Nike did with Joey Harrington when he turned pro and got an endorsement contract no one else would have given him. "Casual" = Fad. Unless you think these casual fans are sticking around? See every temporarily successful team, player, sport. And, Tiger-like is not a few months. But, you can justify your views any way you'd like. But, I think there have been several players that were seen to be WNBA "game changers" and other than the normal growth didn't have the impact that was hyped. The comparison to the PGA/Tiger is ridiculous on every level... as is the MLS. And, although MLS average attendance has gone up about 5,000 over the last 28 seasons, it is due to more teams, more games played in larger venues vs due to a couple of quick "fixes". MLS attendance regularly fluctuates, -17% to +12%, and has a ton to due with which major market team is having success. LA, Seattle, and lately Atlanta have really skewed the averages. The MLS has a successful business model and has been growing, the adding of foreign stars boosted what was already happening. And what other players thought wasn't the issue. The media is usually the culprit, and with Tiger his fame didn't polarize and his "effect" has lasted decades. And even thought the media is responsible, Clark's "fame" has been polarizing since the scoring record came into the discussion. And, as I stated and will stand by my opinion... Clark will not cause any enduring, earth shattering changes to the WNBA, just as the extremely talented women before her didn't. But the new 3-on-3 has a chance to. And, of course that was initiated and found backing because of WNBA stars that have had sustained effects on the league due to longer careers, yet without much of the fluff fanfare. But, it's my opinion. To each their own. Yes, and today's "casual" fan is tomorrow's full-time fan. Everyone who started watching golf because of Tiger didn't stop when his career tanked. And I'm curious, what woman who joined the WNBA in the past 15 years or so had the NATIONAL following of Clark? Bird? Stewart? Sabrina? Maya Moore? They were regional stars at best. JuJu Watkins can't draw more than 4k regularly to USC, in the second-largest market in the country. Sabrina didn't sell tickets on the road; every venue Clark played/plays in is sold out and is sold out for the remainder of the season. There has never been a national phenom like Clark in WBB history, never. And you're right, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I and others on this thread. In and of itself that doesn't make any of us "right." |
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Post by finleybandbeav on Jun 7, 2024 14:16:23 GMT -8
Sabrina isn't even the best player on her own team.
Stewart is.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jun 7, 2024 14:48:26 GMT -8
Catlin Clark has increased viewers and in person attendance of wbb exponentially, Sabrina did not bring near the eye balls as Clark has. Clark has been talked about continuously on national sports talk radio, Sabrina was not a national sports topic. Clark's fame and celebrity is on a completely different level. Nike is not investing a 28 million dollar endorsement deal in her, which is unparalleled in wbb, if they thought she was a fad. This from Jimmy Traina of SI who makes a living studying sports media: "Bottom line: There hasn't been an individual (Clark) responsible for a sport's ratings growth like Clark since Tiger Woods". Lol... now this instant. So, until sustained it's a fad. BTW... Nike signed Sabrina to a $24 mil deal first. And, Nike thrives on profit making fads. You strike while the iron is hot. And, the comparison to Tiger by anyone is ludicrous. Plus Tiger didn't polarize the PGA/his competitors. Most of the hype is over attendance which won't be sustained. And, a foul. Again... time will tell Except perhaps Fuzzy Zoeller. |
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