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Post by takethatbeav on Apr 3, 2024 13:03:01 GMT -8
Anyone that wasn’t a freshman already decided that they weren’t gonna stay if they weren’t in a power conference.
Even though all of them really are WCC type players
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Post by beaver94 on Apr 3, 2024 13:03:08 GMT -8
I’m pretty sure Pope walked on senior day. I didn’t really expect him back anyways. I'm pretty sure Sophs don't walk on Sr day... And I can say that he also did not get enough credits to be a Sr! Yeah I totally meant Akanno. Not sure how I typed Pope. |
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Post by ag87 on Apr 3, 2024 13:35:52 GMT -8
First, I agree that the mid-six figures for Pope is not realistic nor was the $100k for Lucas. However, I have pushed back on your assertion that no one in college basketball is getting 100k. I don’t think you are correct. I DMed the insider on the Illini board and asked him how many kids are getting at least a $100k — none, 5, 50, just about every P4 school has at least one? As I’ve said before, this guy is well connected in college bball world (coaches, AAU programs, and the Illinois program specifically). His answer was: “Many, many, many kids are getting 100k ... We had 4 guys on our team last year that got over 100k ... One guy got over 500k ... “ Now I don’t know what “many, many, many” exactly means, but it certainly isn’t none. Now I don’t know all the intricacies of how and from where NIL money is disbursed, so maybe it’s not coming from a NIL collective per se. But there are kids getting that much. Certainly numbers are exaggerated (mainly by players and their camps I believe) and I think there are a lot of players with $ signs dancing in their heads who end up very disappointed. And there are schools that over promise and the kids end up not getting what was “owed,”. But it would not surprise me in the least if Pope gets $100k or more (but not mid 6 figures). I’m guessing the Illini player getting $500k was Terrance Shannon, Jr., and Pope ain’t no TSJ. I also asked him if he would pass along any info he might hear about landing spots for Pope, Tyler and Rataj. He said he’s already heard UCLA is interested in Pope. First, "no one from school collectives", guess I worded it poorly. The corporate/private collective deals are typically the bigger deals, and even those are merch based and on inflated retail amounts. Also deals also include amounts not even given to athletes but are donations to charities and organizations of their choice. Paige Bueckers is a perfect example of NIL deals where she personally doesn't gain financially yet her NIL "valuation" is mid 6 figures... donations to charity, opening a store in her old middle school, etc: www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/paige-bueckers-nil-deals-sponsors-money/9b8778adbc0181fe7568a80cYour insider may want to look at the public record. All NIL deals have to be vetted and reported, and in most States still are public record. I have posted multiple AD reports, including Kansas, Nevada, UConn, etc... thru the 2023 season. The average NIL deal is 4 figures. Are their some getting much more? Yep. All "legally"? Probably not. But, those large numbers also inflate the "average". Kansas... sorry Kansas is a blue blood, had (5) reported $10k deals... total... in their entire athletic department. I'd love to have your insider state if it is word of mouth or he's actually seen the written contracts... as there must be a written contract for every NIL deal. My guess... word of mouth. At last look there is about 353 D1 teams... 15 per roster allowed... 5295 potential D1 hoops players. Let's say there is what... 70-80 upper tier teams... 20-30 elite teams. How many do you think have the $ to give out even multiple 5 figure deals? Multiple 6 figure deals? And, as I've said any of these deals are few and far between and far from the norm. Very few players warrant even the mention of that type of money as as the NCAA has stated in their new approach numbers have been greatly exaggerated by collective offers and not being fulfilled, and word of mouth by players/families/agents of numbers that did not exist. There is a group of us that laugh at all these numbers because they are thrown about like fact and is if large numbers of players are just being handed large envelops of cash. One guy is a VP of a large investment firm... he likes to chime in with numbers... is there some large pool of money being doled out? Like $50 mil nation wide... which would mean the average NIL deal is like $9k... IF you're talking JUST D1 MBB. And, as evidenced by players who speak up NIL deals aren't mainly about any cash payments. The point is there are very few of the "rich" and they are getting "richer"... and the same goes for some players. Very few are getting rich, and the largest fallacy is that these top players can make more in college. If they are a top, elite player getting large NIL deals they can make more overseas and in the NBA as it is salary/CASH. As a question, do you think players are getting money that is not reported? I think yes, but in full disclosure, it's nothing more than a hunch. For instance, down in Eugene, I could see both Dante and Couisnard receiving multiple plain brown envelopes with 200 Onehundred dollar bills enclosed. I understand money is supposed to be reported, but I'm guessing the reality is different. I think any and every P6 university has more than 10 alumni who care greatly about sports that can come up with $100K in paper money with less that 24 hours notice. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 3, 2024 13:38:15 GMT -8
Remember when the excuse was well its hard to recruit when you have tres and the Thompson Brothers on the team. It wasn't them that was the problem. It was whiny nonfans, who pretend that they like the team? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 3, 2024 13:44:38 GMT -8
Sure this isn’t ideal, but you have to look on the bright side of things. 1. If you do choose, you can still follow these players’ careers and they’ll likely be on better teams to follow. 2. The Tinkle apologists don’t have to think up new excuses for next year. They can just recycle the ones they’ve been using for last 3 years. 3. And the most important one, theseplayer losses don’t matter cuz we still have the greatest coach Beavers have had for 35 years. Plus he's "rebuilt" before! I do remember a great rebuild once. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Apr 3, 2024 13:47:51 GMT -8
I agree things are exaggerated on social media and all “monies” mentioned are not all cash. I don’t know many players for whom it has been said they’d make more money in college than NBA. But for a guy like former Illini center Kofi Cockburn, who was not going to be drafted and didn’t get an NBA job, could he have made more as a returning All American at Illinois than he did in his first contract overseas? I think very possibly. Could someone drafted by NBA team make more money in college? Definitely not first rounders and probably not second rounders. Your numbers as far as NIL collectives seem low according to this report/website. nil-ncaa.com/Using its numbers and if my math is correct, the average Power 5 school spends $2.3M on MBB. Now maybe schools misrepresented their NIL money to this report or they just made up numbers, but that number is in line with the numbers my insider gave for Illini basketball. I don’t really care enough about this to argue further. I do think the numbers bandied about are much to often inflated. I also think the excuse about lack of NIL money is used as an excuse by fans of schools. For the very large majority of players, NIL is not the main reason they enter portal. Wanting to be in a winner, (play in NCAA tourney) wanting to step up in competition to garner more attention or down to get playing time, dissatisfaction with coach, system, way their being used or how being developed are much more important than NIL in their thought process. If Tinkle had gone out and gotten some players who could have helped the team this year rather than essentially doubling down on freshmen again, the team could have been better. Would Pope and Tyler have stayed if team won 9 conference games this year? I don’t know, but WT would have had a much more compelling case that the team was truly improving and with the move to WCC it had a chance to be near the top of conference and get an NCAA bid. As far as I’m concerned, Tinkle really screwed the program and the top players on team by not getting players that could help right away. Further proof to me that he has no idea how to go about constructing a roster in the new MBB landscape. Did he really think the team this year would show more than modest improvement and that would keep guys like Pope and Tyler from entering the portal? Plenty of fans will cry we don’t have enough NIL rather than look at the real problem. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 3, 2024 14:00:46 GMT -8
Did you read the basis of both posts? If JC is correct on his radio show that Pope thinks he's getting mid-6 figures... he's getting crap advice! Not one school collective gives out 6 figure deals. I've pasted numerous articles to refute that. Including from Nevada on the BS Lucas received $100k. 6 figure deals are corporate. Pope is not a national name, he's not even regional. Except to those who closely follow west coast hoops and insiders... coaches/recruiters... Pope is a role filler. He's not a number 1 option at any elite school. NIL BS about supposed #s hopefully will die down some with the new procedures on direct contact. No more lies about what was offered to hope for more. No more BS from collectives to get a kid to sign then the kid never gets what was offered. But, if you mean Pope might get more than OSU can give... yep, NIL will be involved. However, that doesn't change the OP and my posts. Let's say OSU has a couple large collectives and our $n went to that. Leia say Pope received mid-5 figures because we gave and could afford it. Pope could still enter and seek more. I and many others aren't playing that game with any athlete. An athlete that isn't tied to the school or staff, but to $$. They are temporary fixtures. Let 'em go. Plus, anyone that thinks OSU is EVER, EVER going to br able to have NIL collectives to get/keep, and repeating that, 5 figure players is off their rocker. OSU is not and never will be a major elite P5 type school. The sooner some come to grips with that the less strife and stress some will have. OSU can be highly successful in their own niche and way. But, keeping up with the "Joneses" isn't possible in today's climate. First, I agree that the mid-six figures for Pope is not realistic nor was the $100k for Lucas. However, I have pushed back on your assertion that no one in college basketball is getting 100k. I don’t think you are correct. I DMed the insider on the Illini board and asked him how many kids are getting at least a $100k — none, 5, 50, just about every P4 school has at least one? As I’ve said before, this guy is well connected in college bball world (coaches, AAU programs, and the Illinois program specifically). His answer was: “Many, many, many kids are getting 100k ... We had 4 guys on our team last year that got over 100k ... One guy got over 500k ... “ Now I don’t know what “many, many, many” exactly means, but it certainly isn’t none. Now I don’t know all the intricacies of how and from where NIL money is disbursed, so maybe it’s not coming from a NIL collective per se. But there are kids getting that much. Certainly numbers are exaggerated (mainly by players and their camps I believe) and I think there are a lot of players with $ signs dancing in their heads who end up very disappointed. And there are schools that over promise and the kids end up not getting what was “owed,”. But it would not surprise me in the least if Pope gets $100k or more (but not mid 6 figures). I’m guessing the Illini player getting $500k was Terrance Shannon, Jr., and Pope ain’t no TSJ. I also asked him if he would pass along any info he might hear about landing spots for Pope, Tyler and Rataj. He said he’s already heard UCLA is interested in Pope. I have also heard that UCLA is interested in Pope, just a matter of how interested I suppose. |
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Post by rgeorge on Apr 3, 2024 15:03:00 GMT -8
First, "no one from school collectives", guess I worded it poorly. The corporate/private collective deals are typically the bigger deals, and even those are merch based and on inflated retail amounts. Also deals also include amounts not even given to athletes but are donations to charities and organizations of their choice. Paige Bueckers is a perfect example of NIL deals where she personally doesn't gain financially yet her NIL "valuation" is mid 6 figures... donations to charity, opening a store in her old middle school, etc: www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/paige-bueckers-nil-deals-sponsors-money/9b8778adbc0181fe7568a80cYour insider may want to look at the public record. All NIL deals have to be vetted and reported, and in most States still are public record. I have posted multiple AD reports, including Kansas, Nevada, UConn, etc... thru the 2023 season. The average NIL deal is 4 figures. Are their some getting much more? Yep. All "legally"? Probably not. But, those large numbers also inflate the "average". Kansas... sorry Kansas is a blue blood, had (5) reported $10k deals... total... in their entire athletic department. I'd love to have your insider state if it is word of mouth or he's actually seen the written contracts... as there must be a written contract for every NIL deal. My guess... word of mouth. At last look there is about 353 D1 teams... 15 per roster allowed... 5295 potential D1 hoops players. Let's say there is what... 70-80 upper tier teams... 20-30 elite teams. How many do you think have the $ to give out even multiple 5 figure deals? Multiple 6 figure deals? And, as I've said any of these deals are few and far between and far from the norm. Very few players warrant even the mention of that type of money as as the NCAA has stated in their new approach numbers have been greatly exaggerated by collective offers and not being fulfilled, and word of mouth by players/families/agents of numbers that did not exist. There is a group of us that laugh at all these numbers because they are thrown about like fact and is if large numbers of players are just being handed large envelops of cash. One guy is a VP of a large investment firm... he likes to chime in with numbers... is there some large pool of money being doled out? Like $50 mil nation wide... which would mean the average NIL deal is like $9k... IF you're talking JUST D1 MBB. And, as evidenced by players who speak up NIL deals aren't mainly about any cash payments. The point is there are very few of the "rich" and they are getting "richer"... and the same goes for some players. Very few are getting rich, and the largest fallacy is that these top players can make more in college. If they are a top, elite player getting large NIL deals they can make more overseas and in the NBA as it is salary/CASH. As a question, do you think players are getting money that is not reported? I think yes, but in full disclosure, it's nothing more than a hunch. For instance, down in Eugene, I could see both Dante and Couisnard receiving multiple plain brown envelopes with 200 Onehundred dollar bills enclosed. I understand money is supposed to be reported, but I'm guessing the reality is different. I think any and every P6 university has more than 10 alumni who care greatly about sports that can come up with $100K in paper money with less that 24 hours notice. I think that has happened pretty much since the beginning of organized sports. |
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Post by rgeorge on Apr 3, 2024 15:35:07 GMT -8
I agree things are exaggerated on social media and all “monies” mentioned are not all cash. I don’t know many players for whom it has been said they’d make more money in college than NBA. But for a guy like former Illini center Kofi Cockburn, who was not going to be drafted and didn’t get an NBA job, could he have made more as a returning All American at Illinois than he did in his first contract overseas? I think very possibly. Could someone drafted by NBA team make more money in college? Definitely not first rounders and probably not second rounders. Your numbers as far as NIL collectives seem low according to this report/website. nil-ncaa.com/Using its numbers and if my math is correct, the average Power 5 school spends $2.3M on MBB. Now maybe schools misrepresented their NIL money to this report or they just made up numbers, but that number is in line with the numbers my insider gave for Illini basketball. I don’t really care enough about this to argue further. I do think the numbers bandied about are much to often inflated. I also think the excuse about lack of NIL money is used as an excuse by fans of schools. For the very large majority of players, NIL is not the main reason they enter portal. Wanting to be in a winner, (play in NCAA tourney) wanting to step up in competition to garner more attention or down to get playing time, dissatisfaction with coach, system, way their being used or how being developed are much more important than NIL in their thought process. If Tinkle had gone out and gotten some players who could have helped the team this year rather than essentially doubling down on freshmen again, the team could have been better. Would Pope and Tyler have stayed if team won 9 conference games this year? I don’t know, but WT would have had a much more compelling case that the team was truly improving and with the move to WCC it had a chance to be near the top of conference and get an NCAA bid. As far as I’m concerned, Tinkle really screwed the program and the top players on team by not getting players that could help right away. Further proof to me that he has no idea how to go about constructing a roster in the new MBB landscape. Did he really think the team this year would show more than modest improvement and that would keep guys like Pope and Tyler from entering the portal? Plenty of fans will cry we don’t have enough NIL rather than look at the real problem. LOL... I typed out a lengthy response and poof it went bye bye. Been having glitches all day with this site?? And, not arguing, just saying I've seen and posted actual numbers from school ADs. Bottom line opendorse is basing this on estimates from booster support. It is not any where near actual numbers, and not from actual schools. They are "creating " data, just like they create NIL "valuation" $ for players. Neither are real world numbers. And, the two OSU collectives (your posted site lists just one) would laugh at the suggestion that large OSU donors support the NIL like they do the physical plant. I am guessing it is the same at most schools. The real world is not "averages". Most schools are closer to the Michigan State and Northwestern info... "But there are also collectives that have generated funding substantially below these estimates. Michigan State’s primary collective recently cancelled or paused nearly all its contracts with football players due to lackluster support – less than 100 subscriptions to date. Michigan State has without question received the worst publicity of any college athletic department in recent years due to several serious incidents, but it’s also likely not a total outlier. Several other collectives have announced weak fundraising totals as well, including Northwestern’s which recently stated that it was going to miss its Year 1 goal of raising $3 million by a substantial margin (possibly due to the firing of a popular coach). So some of our estimates are clearly too high, and some may be too low." As far as WT... again typed out a response that basically said WT/OSU gets recruits/transfers that he can land, and as we've seen that is very limited in scope and talent. His resume just does not sell a program, and being a great guy doesn't really cut it. Players will play for an ass if they are getting better and winning. You look at the stats of our transfers and you ask, "why?" But, when WT does land a kid that others saw some major flaws, or as a risk, and they blossom, poof! They're gone. OSU needs to take a risk, elite programs can land far better initial recruits then scoop in an replace those that do not work out. Hence, Tyler and Pope. Until we have a coach that can recruit diamonds in the rough, develop talent, win at a consistent level we will not be able to draw in those 2nd tier portal kids. The biggest loss might be Reveno. He was a guy with WCC HC experience, connections, and would take a lower salary (if he is willing to take assist money and live back in the Bay) to take over. I thought he'd be a decent HC in waiting until things got sorted. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Apr 3, 2024 15:53:30 GMT -8
There is a road to success for Beavers. A byproduct of the transfer portal is upper level teams are recruiting HS kids less to leave scholarships for transfers. Of course they still siphon off the top guys, but there are more kids in that mid- to top rated 3* range available for a good recruiter at OSU to snag. Then you have the higher rated kids that went to an upper tier school and couldn’t get playing time transferring out. Throw in finding a real diamond in the rough or two, and there is the talent to win. But where Beavers are at after three really bad years, to tap into that you need a coach/staff that can recruit, understands roster construction and develop players. Tinkle is just not that guy.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Apr 3, 2024 16:23:08 GMT -8
First, I agree that the mid-six figures for Pope is not realistic nor was the $100k for Lucas. However, I have pushed back on your assertion that no one in college basketball is getting 100k. I don’t think you are correct. I DMed the insider on the Illini board and asked him how many kids are getting at least a $100k — none, 5, 50, just about every P4 school has at least one? As I’ve said before, this guy is well connected in college bball world (coaches, AAU programs, and the Illinois program specifically). His answer was: “Many, many, many kids are getting 100k ... We had 4 guys on our team last year that got over 100k ... One guy got over 500k ... “ Now I don’t know what “many, many, many” exactly means, but it certainly isn’t none. Now I don’t know all the intricacies of how and from where NIL money is disbursed, so maybe it’s not coming from a NIL collective per se. But there are kids getting that much. Certainly numbers are exaggerated (mainly by players and their camps I believe) and I think there are a lot of players with $ signs dancing in their heads who end up very disappointed. And there are schools that over promise and the kids end up not getting what was “owed,”. But it would not surprise me in the least if Pope gets $100k or more (but not mid 6 figures). I’m guessing the Illini player getting $500k was Terrance Shannon, Jr., and Pope ain’t no TSJ. I also asked him if he would pass along any info he might hear about landing spots for Pope, Tyler and Rataj. He said he’s already heard UCLA is interested in Pope. I have also heard that UCLA is interested in Pope, just a matter of how interested I suppose. They need a backup for Mack and Andrews? |
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Post by speakthetruth on Apr 3, 2024 17:16:28 GMT -8
In all seriousness what assistant is going to come here with tinkle hanging by a thread? The same for any player.
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Post by Judge Smails on Apr 3, 2024 17:20:23 GMT -8
In all seriousness what assistant is going to come here with tinkle hanging by a thread? The same for any player. If your tinkle is hanging by a thread, you need to pull the thread off of your junk. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Apr 3, 2024 17:33:16 GMT -8
In all seriousness what assistant is going to come here with tinkle hanging by a thread? The same for any player. With all the usual off-season coaching turnover, there is an ample supply of assistant coaches who are looking for jobs. Theirs is a vagabond profession. There are ample young, eager, qualified DII and DIII assistants champing at the bit for a DI position. And even as a WCC affiliate we are better off than half the teams in DI. Thousands of men coach college basketball or aspire to be college coaches, and there aren't many open jobs every year. We'll get tons of interest. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Apr 3, 2024 18:08:40 GMT -8
Tinkle has at most 3 years likely less than that as a coach. So I'd say he is hanging by a thread.
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