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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 24, 2024 12:46:54 GMT -8
Until Oregon State's conference situation is permanently settled, Oregon State is not a step up from anywhere, unless someone is leaving for something like a three-year contract at Oregon State. I am not sure that we can promise "step up" money beyond that.
First, whomever we hire as a new head coach (if we do) will get a 5-year deal at the minimum, making somewhere in the neighborhood of, or north of, $1 million per year.
We will be in the WCC the next two years. We could be in a revived Pac in 2026, or in a reconstituted Big-12/ACC megaconference, or in a 14-team reversed-merged Pac.
"Permanently settled" or not, either of those outcomes is a step up for a head coach presently in about half of the NCAA's Division I basketball conferences. Better than the ASun, America East, Big South, Big Sky, Big West, Coastal AC, CUSA, Horizon, Ivy, MAAC, MEAC, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, SWAC, Summit, Sunbelt and WAC.
And better than half the schools in mid-majors like the A-10, MVC and MAC.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 24, 2024 12:59:06 GMT -8
Until Oregon State's conference situation is permanently settled, Oregon State is not a step up from anywhere, unless someone is leaving for something like a three-year contract at Oregon State. I am not sure that we can promise "step up" money beyond that.First, whomever we hire as a new head coach (if we do) will get a 5-year deal at the minimum, making somewhere in the neighborhood of, or north of, $1 million per year. We will be in the WCC the next two years. We could be in a revived Pac in 2026, or in a reconstituted Big-12/ACC megaconference, or in a 14-team reversed-merged Pac. "Permanently settled" or not, either of those outcomes is a step up for a head coach presently in about half of the NCAA's Division I basketball conferences. Better than the ASun, America East, Big South, Big Sky, Big West, Coastal AC, CUSA, Horizon, Ivy, MAAC, MEAC, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, SWAC, Summit, Sunbelt and WAC. And better than half the schools in mid-majors like the A-10, MVC and MAC. But not the Mountain West, which is what I was focused on. I have no doubt that Oregon State could hire a Big Sky or Ivy League coach. I just doubt that a Mountain West coach or comparable would show up right now with a profound amount of uncertainty, unless he's leaving like a skeletons in the closet situation. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Feb 24, 2024 14:04:00 GMT -8
Not sure how you’re coming up $3M a year needed to get him here. We know OSU won’t pay that much but not will it take that much. Sprinkle will make $925,000 a year next season. Not should what his predecessor Ryan Odom is making at VCU, but guessing around $1.8M per based on the salary of the guy he replaced. Craig Smith, who was USU’s coach before Odom is making about $2M at Utah and he’s been there a few years so a few annual raises. My guess is that $1.8M per to $2M salary is what we’re talking. Can Beavers afford that? I don’t know. Barnes said he planned to continue running athletics as if a P5 school. Based on Bray’s salary not sure if that is the case. More like an upper end mid major/low end P5 program. How much they end up paying for a WT replacement will give us a better idea exactly where OSU is in the college sports environment. Still with that, the job is not a step down from USU. I am probably at the low end of the spectrum with very lightly orange tinted glasses on here, and it just isn’t a step down. I’d say it is better than a lateral move (call it a lateral move with upside), but that remains to be seen. And he likely doubles his salary. Not sure why leaving after one year is not a good look? Is it ideal? Maybe not, but if he’s getting a sizable salary increase it is understandable. You think colleges that routinely go after coaches a year after they get an extension care about a “not a good look”? Maybe if he does it a second time, it might set off some bells. But a coach taking a new job that increases his salary by about a $1M — doubling it — is not going to put him in a bad light. Sprinkle would be a very good hire. Will it happen? Don’t know. For one thing Tinkle isn’t gone yet. If it doesn’t, I don’t think it will be because we didn’t offer $3M or because this is a step down. It will be because he has better offers or doesn’t want to leave for salary we do offer. Until Oregon State's conference situation is permanently settled, Oregon State is not a step up from anywhere, unless someone is leaving for something like a three-year contract at Oregon State. I am not sure that we can promise "step up" money beyond that. So you think even with conference uncertainty the OSU job is not a step up from “anywhere”? Big Sky? No? Hmmm. I also didn’t say it was a step up for Sprinkle. I said it is at worst a lateral move with upside. I say that because the most likely outcome is OSU ends up in the Mountain West (lateral) or in a new conference made up of some teams from MWC and some other similar schools from another conference(s) that would be at worst lateral to MWC but possibly better (upside). The other upside is salary that is at the top or close to top of MWC coaches. Maybe you think we’ll end up in Big Sky or maybe NAIA. All I can say is I’m happy you’re not the AD. As for a 3 year contract, I feel very confident even Barnes isn’t stupid enough to handcuff the program/hiring process by trying to offer a 3 year contract to any qualified candidate. He knows price of doing business for a new bball head coach at even the new level OSU is at is 5 years. He signed Bray to a 5 year contract but you think he’ll offer a new bball coach only 3 years? Not unless he’s comfortable with introducing Reveno to administration and donors as the new HC. He’ll come up with a salary number he feels comfortable with in offering a 5 year contract. How much will that be? I don’t know but my best guess is somewhere between $1M and $2M per and probably more likely $1.5M at the high end. If the number is $1M per for 5 years, it is a lateral move and Sprinkle isn’t the guy. If it’s $1.4M per for 5 years. I’d guess Sprinkle would listen. If you don’t think he would, then I’d like to congratulate you on a very successful and lucrative career where you don’t think a $500,000 raise is enticing. If it is $2M per for 5 years, he would definitely listen and very possibly take it unless he had better offers. There just aren’t that many coaching jobs paying that much, and coaching is too fickle a profession to turn down that kind of money. If Barnes does move on from Tinkle after this year at the cost of eating a good chunk of money, he will do so because he feels OSU can’t afford Tinkle destroying the program any further. He’s not then going to try and offer qualified candidates a 3 year contract no matter the uncertainty. Matt Logie, who replaced Sprinkle at Montana St got a 4 year contract. |
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Post by ag87 on Feb 26, 2024 10:11:42 GMT -8
My initial reaction to Sprinkle is he would be a good hire. My next thought is why leave Utah State after a year? Not a good look. And in this climate OSU is a step down - if we are looking at this with the orange tinted glasses, it's lateral. And then, I don't think he would come here for peanuts. Will we be able to offer 5 years for $15M? My guess is not. Edit - somewhat interesting is that the last two Montana State teams scored a huge percentage of their points at the free throw line with very few from 3. This Utah State team is the same from 3 but trading the free throws for 2 pointers. Not sure how you’re coming up $3M a year needed to get him here. We know OSU won’t pay that much but not will it take that much. Sprinkle will make $925,000 a year next season. Not should what his predecessor Ryan Odom is making at VCU, but guessing around $1.8M per based on the salary of the guy he replaced. Craig Smith, who was USU’s coach before Odom is making about $2M at Utah and he’s been there a few years so a few annual raises. My guess is that $1.8M per to $2M salary is what we’re talking. Can Beavers afford that? I don’t know. Barnes said he planned to continue running athletics as if a P5 school. Based on Bray’s salary not sure if that is the case. More like an upper end mid major/low end P5 program. How much they end up paying for a WT replacement will give us a better idea exactly where OSU is in the college sports environment. Still with that, the job is not a step down from USU. I am probably at the low end of the spectrum with very lightly orange tinted glasses on here, and it just isn’t a step down. I’d say it is better than a lateral move (call it a lateral move with upside), but that remains to be seen. And he likely doubles his salary. Not sure why leaving after one year is not a good look? Is it ideal? Maybe not, but if he’s getting a sizable salary increase it is understandable. You think colleges that routinely go after coaches a year after they get an extension care about a “not a good look”? Maybe if he does it a second time, it might set off some bells. But a coach taking a new job that increases his salary by about a $1M — doubling it — is not going to put him in a bad light. Sprinkle would be a very good hire. Will it happen? Don’t know. For one thing Tinkle isn’t gone yet. If it doesn’t, I don’t think it will be because we didn’t offer $3M or because this is a step down. It will be because he has better offers or doesn’t want to leave for salary we do offer. the $3m a year is strictly a WAG. I did think the head coach salary would be a little higher at Utah State than a bit under 1m. I was and am guessing salaries in the mountain west are about as good as possible outside the P6. The American or Atlantic 10 might be a bit higher? |
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Post by beaverinohio on Feb 26, 2024 11:41:10 GMT -8
Ag87
As I said in a previous post, my WAG for salary if Beavers move on from Tinkle is in the $1M to $2m range with the high end maybe more like $1.5M. So, Sprinkle may well be too expensive, but maybe not.
The most recent decent list I’ve been able to find is a year old (Sprinkle not on list but got his salary by Googling it) and not complete as many private schools don’t make salaries public. Also starts getting spotty at about $1M. For example only has 2 MWC coaches in list — Dutcher at about $1.3M and Alford at about $1.2M. Those are numbers 67 and 68 on list.
You are correct that high end for A10 and AAC seem to be highest outside of the P6 conferences except for outlier Few at Gonzaga (1.9M). VCU and Cincy are the leaders in their respective conferences at about $1.7M and $1.6M.
Until we know what Barnes is willing to pay, we don’t know what level of coach we’ll be looking at, but I can’t imagine it will be lower than $1M. So when others in here say a strong qualified coach won’t take the job, I think that is false. Money alone will be a draw. For example, I believe someone mentioned John Becker from Vermont. Now I’m not saying that’s someone we’d go after or who would want to come west. but here’s a guy that in 13 years there has an overall winning percentage over .700, a conf percentage of .850 and taken team to 5 NCAA tournaments including last 2. His salary is about $370k plus he got about $120k in bonuses last year. There are a number of good coaches making no where close to $1M who would take the job.
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Post by beaverinohio on Feb 26, 2024 12:11:59 GMT -8
For any Creighton fans or just interested in coaching carousel, my “bball insider” says he’s hearing McDermott is planning on staying. So he’s off the table for Ohio St
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Post by ag87 on Feb 26, 2024 13:09:54 GMT -8
I wonder what kind of money Creighton has? If there's a bidding war will they play? I knew a few upper management guys at UP. They would wear Carhartt in the office but I know in a good year their bonuses were north of a mil. They generally talked NU football. I don't remember Creighton ever coming up.
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Post by beaverinohio on Feb 26, 2024 13:44:28 GMT -8
I wonder what kind of money Creighton has? If there's a bidding war will they play? I knew a few upper management guys at UP. They would wear Carhartt in the office but I know in a good year their bonuses were north of a mil. They generally talked NU football. I don't remember Creighton ever coming up. I’m not sure how much money they have or what he makes. Only thing I could find had him listed at $2.3M. I know he got a nice extension recently. Plus he’s got a nice gig there. Been there 14 seasons and got fired before that from a big state school (Iowa St), so might like the private school vibe. He also has great fan support. They regularly sell out their nearly 17,000 seat arena. Per OSU, he and Gene Smith (OSU AD) do not like each other, so that might factor into it. Smith is on his way out, but believe he is involved in the coaching hire. Ohio St also isn’t a top job in B1G either. Holtmann was only 7th highest paid coach in conference. My “bball insider” recently gave his thoughts on MBB program tiers in conference based on things like resources, facilities, fan support and AD. He said OSU and Rutgers are more tier 3/4. I don’t think within tiers they are in any kind of order. Tier 1: UCLA, Michigan State, Illinois Tier 2: Indiana, Maryland, Purdue, Oregon Tier 3: Iowa, USC, Rutgers, Washington, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State Tier 4: Nebraska, Minnesota Tier 5: Penn State, Northwestern As an aside per private vs public universities, reportedly Moser wants out of Oklahoma and wants to go back to private school preferably in Midwest. He has a big buyout though, so until he figures that out he isn’t going anywhere. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 26, 2024 13:45:43 GMT -8
Ag87 As I said in a previous post, my WAG for salary if Beavers move on from Tinkle is in the $1M to $2m range with the high end maybe more like $1.5M. So, Sprinkle may well be too expensive, but maybe not. The most recent decent list I’ve been able to find is a year old (Sprinkle not on list but got his salary by Googling it) and not complete as many private schools don’t make salaries public. Also starts getting spotty at about $1M. For example only has 2 MWC coaches in list — Dutcher at about $1.3M and Alford at about $1.2M. Those are numbers 67 and 68 on list. You are correct that high end for A10 and AAC seem to be highest outside of the P6 conferences except for outlier Few at Gonzaga (1.9M). VCU and Cincy are the leaders in their respective conferences at about $1.7M and $1.6M. Until we know what Barnes is willing to pay, we don’t know what level of coach we’ll be looking at, but I can’t imagine it will be lower than $1M. So when others in here say a strong qualified coach won’t take the job, I think that is false. Money alone will be a draw. For example, I believe someone mentioned John Becker from Vermont. Now I’m not saying that’s someone we’d go after or who would want to come west. but here’s a guy that in 13 years there has an overall winning percentage over .700, a conf percentage of .850 and taken team to 5 NCAA tournaments including last 2. His salary is about $370k plus he got about $120k in bonuses last year. There are a number of good coaches making no where close to $1M who would take the job. The thing about Sprinkle is that, if we offer Sprinkle $1.5 million, Utah State will match it or at least come close. I believe that the chances of netting an up-and-coming current Mountain West coach is about 0%, unless there are skeletons, or he just hates it in Logan. There is always a chance that we find someone who loves the West Coast but is stuck somewhere, who would bolt for comparable or less money. That may be Sprinkle, but I am going to wager dollars to donuts that Sprinkle gets a pay raise and extension, if he keeps it up. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Feb 26, 2024 13:59:01 GMT -8
Wilky — Until we know what if Tinkle is out after this year and what Barnes is willing to pay his replacement, it’s all speculation and you may be right. I have my doubts if OSU came in at $1.4M or higher if USU would match. They lost Smith after 3 years and Odom after 2 years. I believe Sprinkle is getting paid about $100k more than Odom was. And he only gets a $25k raise each year, which is relatively low. For USUto jump him up another $500k annual would seem to be a lot.
Like I said, you may be right about Sprinkle. But I have no doubt there will be a number of qualified, successful coaches that would want the job. Now whether Barnes picks right one is another matter.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 26, 2024 14:05:01 GMT -8
Wilky — Until we know what if Tinkle is out after this year and what Barnes is willing to pay his replacement, it’s all speculation and you may be right. I have my doubts if OSU came in at $1.4M or higher if USU would match. They lost Smith after 3 years and Odom after 2 years. I believe Sprinkle is getting paid about $100k more than Odom was. And he only gets a $25k raise each year, which is relatively low. For USUto jump him up another $500k annual would seem to be a lot. Like I said, you may be right about Sprinkle. But I have no doubt there will be a number of qualified, successful coaches that would want the job. Now whether Barnes picks right one is another matter. Always the $64,000 question. There are always better options. It is just a matter of whether Barnes will identify and hire them. I have been happy with what Barnes has done so far in other sports, but he has an awful track record in basketball. I have my doubts. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 26, 2024 14:13:29 GMT -8
So is Barnes likely to poach a head coach in the "same conference"?
We have a relationship with the WAC in football and apparently an agreement in principle to explore absorbing them in all sports to rebuild the Pac-12. Would offending a potential conference partner be his first choice?
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 26, 2024 14:42:54 GMT -8
So is Barnes likely to poach a head coach in the "same conference"? We have a relationship with the WAC in football and apparently an agreement in principle to explore absorbing them in all sports to rebuild the Pac-12. Would offending a potential conference partner be his first choice? Wrong conference. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 26, 2024 15:02:04 GMT -8
All this talk about other coaches and their salaries tells me one thing. Tinkle has been and is overpaid.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 26, 2024 15:04:06 GMT -8
So is Barnes likely to poach a head coach in the "same conference"? We have a relationship with the WAC in football and apparently an agreement in principle to explore absorbing them in all sports to rebuild the Pac-12. Would offending a potential conference partner be his first choice? Wrong conference. Oops, MWC, of which Utah State is a member. |
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