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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 5, 2023 16:13:44 GMT -8
Following on the PacWest idea, I'd like to see an opening core group of Cal, Stanford, OSU, WSU, Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State. Problems: 1.) Buy outs for the three MWC schools? 2.) Would the Bay area schools tolerate the three MWC schools? Anyone know what their thoughts are in general? Are they holding out for offers from Big10/Big12? You need an even number of teams for scheduling purposes. Otherwise someone always has a bye. Not insurmountable in football but a PITA in basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, etc. UNLV is the perfect 8th. OSU/WSU Cal/Stanford Boise/Fresno Add CSU/Wyoming for 10. SDSU/UNLV |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 5, 2023 16:15:54 GMT -8
Following on the PacWest idea, I'd like to see an opening core group of Cal, Stanford, OSU, WSU, Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State. Problems: 1.) Buy outs for the three MWC schools? 2.) Would the Bay area schools tolerate the three MWC schools? Anyone know what their thoughts are in general? Are they holding out for offers from Big10/Big12? You need 8 teams for scheduling purposes. Otherwise someone always has a bye. Not insurmountable in football but a PITA in basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, etc. UNLV is the perfect 8th. OSU/WSU Cal/Stanford Boise/Fresno Add CSU/Wyoming for 10. SDSU/UNLV As difficult as it might make some issues, I think you need to merge to keep from being exactly what we are all hating on. The guys breaking up a conference and adversely effecting other fine universities. |
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ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
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Post by ftd on Aug 5, 2023 16:16:35 GMT -8
Following on the PacWest idea, I'd like to see an opening core group of Cal, Stanford, OSU, WSU, Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State. Problems: 1.) Buy outs for the three MWC schools? 2.) Would the Bay area schools tolerate the three MWC schools? Anyone know what their thoughts are in general? Are they holding out for offers from Big10/Big12? One way to solve this, assuming Apple will still fund at $20+ mil per team with clauses for subscribers increasing (or not... we'll take the guaranteed $20 mil). Merge... with the right language, there would be no buyouts. And, maybe due to P5 status the (4) Pac12 members receive larger shares, $25-30 mil vs $12-16 mil for the MWC teams for the first 5 year deal. That is still 3 to 4x what they get now. The former Pac12 members still hold NCAA rights as P5 conference... auto berth in CFP, autonomy in other NCAA rules, and have the leftover Pac12 "war chest" (my understanding is that the "4" will have 80% of approximately $400+ mil. The other approximately $80+ mil can be accessed as damages from the 8 teams leaving during a negotiation process. You'd have a decent league, plenty of money for each university, a media deal with a tech giant, P5/CFP standing, schools with decent to excellent facilities, and very reasonable travel. Most of all,schools that mesh, no real arse wipe elitist athletic programs. I herby nominate rgeorge for new Pac 4 commissioner... Second? |
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Post by four2itus on Aug 5, 2023 16:17:59 GMT -8
One way to solve this, assuming Apple will still fund at $20+ mil per team with clauses for subscribers increasing (or not... we'll take the guaranteed $20 mil). Merge... with the right language, there would be no buyouts. And, maybe due to P5 status the (4) Pac12 members receive larger shares, $25-30 mil vs $12-16 mil for the MWC teams for the first 5 year deal. That is still 3 to 4x what they get now. The former Pac12 members still hold NCAA rights as P5 conference... auto berth in CFP, autonomy in other NCAA rules, and have the leftover Pac12 "war chest" (my understanding is that the "4" will have 80% of approximately $400+ mil. The other approximately $80+ mil can be accessed as damages from the 8 teams leaving during a negotiation process. You'd have a decent league, plenty of money for each university, a media deal with a tech giant, P5/CFP standing, schools with decent to excellent facilities, and very reasonable travel. Most of all,schools that mesh, no real arse wipe elitist athletic programs. I herby nominate rgeorge for new Pac 4 commissioner... Second? I second. Third? |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 5, 2023 16:21:05 GMT -8
Lol... well I've actually emailed Scott to see if this scenario or something similar is possible or is on the table.
I do not expect a reply during this hectic time. Nor do I or any us here know the immense intricacies of such a merger. Or what exactly Apple had in place or would consider?
Plus, what 16 or 17 administrations have to get together, and agree?! Plus the media partner?? A lot to ask for.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 5, 2023 16:25:49 GMT -8
You need 8 teams for scheduling purposes. Otherwise someone always has a bye. Not insurmountable in football but a PITA in basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, etc. UNLV is the perfect 8th. OSU/WSU Cal/Stanford Boise/Fresno Add CSU/Wyoming for 10. SDSU/UNLV As difficult as it might make some issues, I think you need to merge to keep from being exactly what we are all hating on. The guys breaking up a conference and adversely effecting other fine universities. Sure, I'll take all of them except Hawaii (affiliate FB member), not worth the hassle. And if they merged with us, under the P-12 banner, we'd have higher name recognition, there would be no withdrawl fees, the league keeps all the built-up NCAA men's basketball unit dispersals, and it would be one of the top 6 conferences and thus have automatic-berth status in the CFP. |
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Post by seastape on Aug 5, 2023 16:29:44 GMT -8
I, like all of you, have emotionally/ mentally run the gamut in the past week or so, with all of the realignment (nice way of saying back stabbing, selling out, whoring out oneself) that has happened. Now that the dust has settled a bit, I have an idea whose time may have come.
Let me set the stage. What does the average movie goer, sports fan, etc. really enjoy? The underdog - and rooting for them. Why are so many movies, like Rocky, popular? It seems we are at a crossroads - either lay down and be the next butt slut school and take crumbs from one of these other conferences tied to the large TV networks and their lackeys in the press, or - why not rename the Pac12 to something like the NIC (National Independent Conference), and go on the hunt for approx 12, max of 16 schools nationwide to join our "new" P5 conference?
I would envision it like this: Have anywhere from 6 to 10 schools in the east, 6 to 10 schools in the west - two divisions within the NIC. Then, rename the Pac12 Network to the NCIN (National Collegiate Independent Network) and hire more staff, build the network infrastructure to record/ broadcast sports matches/ content nationwide at conference schools. Go offer that content to multiple streaming services (Apple, Amazon, Hulu, Pluto, etc) for a fee, guaranteeing exclusive rights - much like the large conventional networks. This would be similar to the Apple deal that the old Pac12 had tried to put together. But now, it is a larger conference, made up of schools that could take a smaller contract up front (20-30 million), with the option of that increasing as subscribers/ viewers increase.
In business, like in life, we are presented with challenges. How we handle the challenges, will define who we are, where it all ends up. In business, if there is a major screw up, it can be an opportunity to show your customers that you care about their business, are willing to admit the mistake, and make it right. It can build loyalty in the midst of failure.
Right now, myself and thousands of other fans are contemplating whether or not we want to continue going to games, watching games next year on TV. What it comes down to for me, what does OSU do now that they have been confronted/ challenged with the treachery, debauchery and dishonesty of many of the defecting member schools? I say - we fight fire with fire. Being added to another conference, and taking the crumbs, means we are saying they win. And we are saying indirectly we suck, and are not worth the dollars of the big and beautiful schools. I say nonsense.
If presented and marketed correctly, I believe we could attract another 12 to 16 schools that are just as disgusted as we are with the way the large networks have screwed up traditional college football, and collegiate sports. Fight back. Give then an alternative. I suspect there are schools, just like us, that are good athletically and academically, that are just on the cusp, or have been in the past - great. Let's gather them together, be and embrace the moniker of the underdog, and fight. What say you?
Agree with a lot of what you say and propose but I would try something bigger. When you get down to it, we're G5 and we need to secure our future. So does most, if not all, of the rest of the G5. Think about San Diego State, whom three months ago thought that they were definitely going to the P5. Other schools like them, for example Memphis, who has flirted with several P5 conferences. Or Tulane, who beat USC in a bowl last year. I gotta figure that the entire G5 is worried that the P4 is now saturated and is more likely to shrink than grow and that they, the G5 schools, are out. People all over the media and internet are spreading the news that the days of the super-conferences approach. Probably less than 40 schools will be in. Shoot, the Power 5 just got pared by four schools. So what do we do? We need to get visibility for our schools. We can't just stream a conference, even of 20 teams, and hope for casuals to show up if the streaming channel(s) are not widely available, like the Pac 12 Network right now. We need to get to a place where casuals can find us by pressing a button (at most 2) on their remote. So, the four of us (Cal, Stan, WSU, OSU) continue the Pac, invite a lot of the western schools, mostly the MWC, and get the absolute best media deals that we can (probably around $4-7 million total/team). Such deals most likely will not cover every football, basketball (both genders) and other sports games. For the games that are not broadcast in the main media rights deals, stream the rest. Call them, for now, the leftovers. Meanwhile, call the rest of the G5 and discuss either joining or starting up a network that streams every one of the G5's leftover games. Make it so games on the network can be switched to others with the push of a button or two on the remote. Essentially, put all 69 (for now) G5 schools on one network that ensures that every G5 school's major sports games are televised one way or another So when the "NCIN (National Collegiate Independent Network)" streams a conference game between the Western Kentucky Hilltoppers and the Liberty Flames (a Conference USA contest), a viewer of that game can press a button or two and switch to the conference game between San Diego State and Oregon State just like regular channels. Casual fans can be accommodated. I agree with you (NativeBeav): there are fans of the G5 who are not happy with the destruction to college sports that the media and the P4 are causing. There may be a fair amount that would rather stick around to watch G5 than P4. But we need another hook to really bring in the casual. So here's one: Line up the G5 conferences with 5 conferences from the FCS (1AA) and have a relegation model like European soccer: the worst goes down a division and the best goes up a division. There are a lot of people out there who have expressed interest in such a model. It would make a lot of games interesting and we know that there is no way that P4 teams, especially teams like Indiana or Syracuse, would have the stomach to agree to such a thing. G5 teams probably don't have the guts for it, either, but I know a lot of fans would like to see it. The G5 has to maintain some way to keep the train going and even picking up speed. There has to be more than business as usual. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Aug 5, 2023 16:40:57 GMT -8
I, like all of you, have emotionally/ mentally run the gamut in the past week or so, with all of the realignment (nice way of saying back stabbing, selling out, whoring out oneself) that has happened. Now that the dust has settled a bit, I have an idea whose time may have come.
Let me set the stage. What does the average movie goer, sports fan, etc. really enjoy? The underdog - and rooting for them. Why are so many movies, like Rocky, popular? It seems we are at a crossroads - either lay down and be the next butt slut school and take crumbs from one of these other conferences tied to the large TV networks and their lackeys in the press, or - why not rename the Pac12 to something like the NIC (National Independent Conference), and go on the hunt for approx 12, max of 16 schools nationwide to join our "new" P5 conference?
I would envision it like this: Have anywhere from 6 to 10 schools in the east, 6 to 10 schools in the west - two divisions within the NIC. Then, rename the Pac12 Network to the NCIN (National Collegiate Independent Network) and hire more staff, build the network infrastructure to record/ broadcast sports matches/ content nationwide at conference schools. Go offer that content to multiple streaming services (Apple, Amazon, Hulu, Pluto, etc) for a fee, guaranteeing exclusive rights - much like the large conventional networks. This would be similar to the Apple deal that the old Pac12 had tried to put together. But now, it is a larger conference, made up of schools that could take a smaller contract up front (20-30 million), with the option of that increasing as subscribers/ viewers increase.
In business, like in life, we are presented with challenges. How we handle the challenges, will define who we are, where it all ends up. In business, if there is a major screw up, it can be an opportunity to show your customers that you care about their business, are willing to admit the mistake, and make it right. It can build loyalty in the midst of failure.
Right now, myself and thousands of other fans are contemplating whether or not we want to continue going to games, watching games next year on TV. What it comes down to for me, what does OSU do now that they have been confronted/ challenged with the treachery, debauchery and dishonesty of many of the defecting member schools? I say - we fight fire with fire. Being added to another conference, and taking the crumbs, means we are saying they win. And we are saying indirectly we suck, and are not worth the dollars of the big and beautiful schools. I say nonsense.
If presented and marketed correctly, I believe we could attract another 12 to 16 schools that are just as disgusted as we are with the way the large networks have screwed up traditional college football, and collegiate sports. Fight back. Give then an alternative. I suspect there are schools, just like us, that are good athletically and academically, that are just on the cusp, or have been in the past - great. Let's gather them together, be and embrace the moniker of the underdog, and fight. What say you?
Agree with a lot of what you say and propose but I would try something bigger. When you get down to it, we're G5 and we need to secure our future. So does most, if not all, of the rest of the G5. Think about San Diego State, whom three months ago thought that they were definitely going to the P5. Other schools like them, for example Memphis, who has flirted with several P5 conferences. Or Tulane, who beat USC in a bowl last year. I gotta figure that the entire G5 is worried that the P4 is now saturated and is more likely to shrink than grow and that they, the G5 schools, are out. People all over the media and internet are spreading the news that the days of the super-conferences approach. Probably less than 40 schools will be in. Shoot, the Power 5 just got pared by four schools. So what do we do? We need to get visibility for our schools. We can't just stream a conference, even of 20 teams, and hope for casuals to show up if the streaming channel(s) are not widely available, like the Pac 12 Network right now. We need to get to a place where casuals can find us by pressing a button (at most 2) on their remote. So, the four of us (Cal, Stan, WSU, OSU) continue the Pac, invite a lot of the western schools, mostly the MWC, and get the absolute best media deals that we can (probably around $4-7 million total/team). Such deals most likely will not cover every football, basketball (both genders) and other sports games. For the games that are not broadcast in the main media rights deals, stream the rest. Call them, for now, the leftovers. Meanwhile, call the rest of the G5 and discuss either joining or starting up a network that streams every one of the G5's leftover games. Make it so games on the network can be switched to others with the push of a button or two on the remote. Essentially, put all 69 (for now) G5 schools on one network that ensures that every G5 school's major sports games are televised one way or another So when the "NCIN (National Collegiate Independent Network)" streams a conference game between the Western Kentucky Hilltoppers and the Liberty Flames (a Conference USA contest), a viewer of that game can press a button or two and switch to the conference game between San Diego State and Oregon State just like regular channels. Casual fans can be accommodated. I agree with you (NativeBeav): there are fans of the G5 who are not happy with the destruction to college sports that the media and the P4 are causing. There may be a fair amount that would rather stick around to watch G5 than P4. But we need another hook to really bring in the casual. So here's one: Line up the G5 conferences with 5 conferences from the FCS (1AA) and have a relegation model like European soccer: the worst goes down a division and the best goes up a division. There are a lot of people out there who have expressed interest in such a model. It would make a lot of games interesting and we know that there is no way that P4 teams, especially teams like Indiana or Syracuse, would have the stomach to agree to such a thing. G5 teams probably don't have the guts for it, either, but I know a lot of fans would like to see it. The G5 has to maintain some way to keep the train going and even picking up speed. There has to be more than business as usual. I like some, if not most, of your ideas as well. The point of my original post is we need to get beyond the initial shock/ horror/ disgust of what just happened, and respond in a way that captures some of that rightful disgust and pushes back against it. Yes it sucks what just happened - now let's move forward, and be proactive - not just reactive. I would love nothing more that for the four remaining schools to spearhead a renaissance of the conference under a new name - and beat the whores and traitors at their own game. |
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Post by ag87 on Aug 5, 2023 16:48:40 GMT -8
Following on the PacWest idea, I'd like to see an opening core group of Cal, Stanford, OSU, WSU, Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State. Problems: 1.) Buy outs for the three MWC schools? 2.) Would the Bay area schools tolerate the three MWC schools? Anyone know what their thoughts are in general? Are they holding out for offers from Big10/Big12? One way to solve this, assuming Apple will still fund at $20+ mil per team with clauses for subscribers increasing (or not... we'll take the guaranteed $20 mil). Merge... with the right language, there would be no buyouts. And, maybe due to P5 status the (4) Pac12 members receive larger shares, $25-30 mil vs $12-16 mil for the MWC teams for the first 5 year deal. That is still 3 to 4x what they get now. The former Pac12 members still hold NCAA rights as P5 conference... auto berth in CFP, autonomy in other NCAA rules, and have the leftover Pac12 "war chest" (my understanding is that the "4" will have 80% of approximately $400+ mil. The other approximately $80+ mil can be accessed as damages from the 8 teams leaving during a negotiation process. You'd have a decent league, plenty of money for each university, a media deal with a tech giant, P5/CFP standing, schools with decent to excellent facilities, and very reasonable travel. Most of all,schools that mesh, no real arse wipe elitist athletic programs. Somewhere I read (I don't think it was a bulletin board) that the San Diego State (and other MW) buyouts go away after the 24-25 school year. It's possible the Pac-4 are a little better off than we feared. And that's especially with the $400M number. If the legislature forces tsdtr to pony up about $7M/year that's another big shot. With the exception of football, travel to the central time zone is a huge hardship for every other team. I like the thought of SMU but Dallas is a longish flight. If they still want in I don't know how good of an idea that is. |
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Post by beaver55to7 on Aug 5, 2023 17:03:26 GMT -8
Following on the PacWest idea, I'd like to see an opening core group of Cal, Stanford, OSU, WSU, Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State. Problems: 1.) Buy outs for the three MWC schools? 2.) Would the Bay area schools tolerate the three MWC schools? Anyone know what their thoughts are in general? Are they holding out for offers from Big10/Big12? One way to solve this, assuming Apple will still fund at $20+ mil per team with clauses for subscribers increasing (or not... we'll take the guaranteed $20 mil). Merge... with the right language, there would be no buyouts. And, maybe due to P5 status the (4) Pac12 members receive larger shares, $25-30 mil vs $12-16 mil for the MWC teams for the first 5 year deal. That is still 3 to 4x what they get now. The former Pac12 members still hold NCAA rights as P5 conference... auto berth in CFP, autonomy in other NCAA rules, and have the leftover Pac12 "war chest" (my understanding is that the "4" will have 80% of approximately $400+ mil. The other approximately $80+ mil can be accessed as damages from the 8 teams leaving during a negotiation process. You'd have a decent league, plenty of money for each university, a media deal with a tech giant, P5/CFP standing, schools with decent to excellent facilities, and very reasonable travel. Most of all,schools that mesh, no real arse wipe elitist athletic programs. Apple's offer expired on Friday. That ship sailed. |
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Post by bvrbred on Aug 5, 2023 17:27:17 GMT -8
We were looking at starting anyway. Doubt the conference could have held them to the original offer insofar as it was made when we had 10 teams, including OR/WA, AZ schools, Utah.
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Post by blove on Aug 5, 2023 17:45:53 GMT -8
One way to solve this, assuming Apple will still fund at $20+ mil per team with clauses for subscribers increasing (or not... we'll take the guaranteed $20 mil). Merge... with the right language, there would be no buyouts. And, maybe due to P5 status the (4) Pac12 members receive larger shares, $25-30 mil vs $12-16 mil for the MWC teams for the first 5 year deal. That is still 3 to 4x what they get now. The former Pac12 members still hold NCAA rights as P5 conference... auto berth in CFP, autonomy in other NCAA rules, and have the leftover Pac12 "war chest" (my understanding is that the "4" will have 80% of approximately $400+ mil. The other approximately $80+ mil can be accessed as damages from the 8 teams leaving during a negotiation process. You'd have a decent league, plenty of money for each university, a media deal with a tech giant, P5/CFP standing, schools with decent to excellent facilities, and very reasonable travel. Most of all,schools that mesh, no real arse wipe elitist athletic programs. Apple's offer expired on Friday. That ship sailed. |
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Post by blove on Aug 5, 2023 17:47:49 GMT -8
Not so fast my friend.
Latest rumor is Apple still interested.
Pull from AAC then MWC.
But who knows what to believe after this whole mess.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 5, 2023 17:56:31 GMT -8
Apple's offer expired on Friday. That ship sailed. For the Pac-12, yes. I'd assume they would still listen to a pitch from a new league, if they seriously want to get into the sports streaming game. |
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Post by sparty on Aug 5, 2023 18:17:48 GMT -8
So if the remaining Pac 4 schools stay together, can we get at least two more teams by the 2024 season? I think 6 is the minimum number to remain as a conference. Then work on getting up to 10+ by 2025. Remain the Pac-n. Poach from MWC, SMU, maybe someone else? Of course the trick is getting a media deal that will let it happen. Belt tightening for a year or two..then back in business? So do we keep the office in expensive San Francisco and pay George K. his full salary. I say move the conference offices to the Portland area after firing George K. You can't leave him. |
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