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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 14:17:38 GMT -8
Post by orman58 on Mar 2, 2023 14:17:38 GMT -8
I do not like the slow pace of half court games. They happen, especially in a defensive struggle and a lid on the hoop. Then again I come from a time when the four corner stall took momentum out of a team and they played to not loose versus playing to win.
Why WBB played that way most of the season, I don’t know nor do I care to speculate. What I am seeing now is the crisp hard passes into the post. I see long passes to streaking players trying for the easy transition bucket. I see breaking the press involves the whole team through passing instead of dribbling. That is the flow of basketball. Quickness and putting the other team on its heels so they make the mistakes.
There has been a lot of talk about the control of SR and calling out plays. I agree. That slows play and allows the defense to set up.
Jack Ramsey coached to never let the ball hit the floor after the other team scores. Whoever is closes to the ball grabs it coming out of the net, then inbounds to a guard around the hash mark. This added speed hinders the defense if they try to set up a press. It puts the defense on their heels. It may lead to some easier transition baskets. Nothing stops a press being applied than to quickly score easy baskets.
Ramsey also had sets based on which side of the floor the ball was being brought up. When you let the players flow the defense is at a disadvantage. No looking at the coach to see what to do.
Ralph Miller preached the fastest way up court was passing not dribbling. He distained the bounce pass except for backdoor cuts. Takes too long to get to the next player. His four passes may have been to make the defense move. Disruption just to get the D out of position.
Little tweaks allowing the women to do what they do best, play basketball not watch the coach on every position, and play quick.
This team is built to attack. Three with size to play the 4 and 5. High-low or passing in then back out. Spot up shooters that aren’t afraid to shoot and are deadly. Slashers (AJ & TVO) that can move without the ball, make the backdoor cut, and can also take the defender on the dribble. A tough attitude. Notice how Adlee did not take kindly to being shoved to the ground out of bounds against USC.
I hope SR matches this squad’s strengths with a pace that brings the best out of them. I hope he becomes flexible. Let them learn to run not walk.
In 1970, Miller’s last year at Iowa his players were athletes and scorers (John Johnson, Downtown Freddy Brown). That team averaged 97 pts per game. The next season he came to OSU and adjusted to a different team that scored in the 60’s. In Jan of 1980 OSU was ranked #2 and playing at Stanford. Stanford had little chance and could only stall. Ralph adjusted to Stanford’s game and won 18-16. It is true.
Let’s hope SR continues to make adjustments as he has been doing these last couple of games. The team is here maturing.
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 14:53:00 GMT -8
Post by beavdowg on Mar 2, 2023 14:53:00 GMT -8
Speaking of pace; before the game last night USC's coach said they wanted to push the ball and play a fast game to wear out our bigs. I didn't see this ever really happen from USC, at least not on a consistent basis. In her post-game presser she even commented that they didn't play the style of game they wanted to, if I remember correctly. I wonder why she didn't stick to her game-plan?
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 15:03:05 GMT -8
Post by beavsteve on Mar 2, 2023 15:03:05 GMT -8
Speaking of pace; before the game last night USC's coach said they wanted to push the ball and play a fast game to wear out our bigs. I didn't see this ever really happen from USC, at least not on a consistent basis. In her post-game presser she even commented that they didn't play the style of game they wanted to, if I remember correctly. I wonder why she didn't stick to her game-plan? She didn't choose to play at our pace, the players were at fault for not playing in a way consistent with the game plan. In the interview, she clearly had wanted to play at a faster pace and was encouraging her team to do so (in particular at halftime).
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 15:42:43 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by believeinthebeavs on Mar 2, 2023 15:42:43 GMT -8
Speaking of pace; before the game last night USC's coach said they wanted to push the ball and play a fast game to wear out our bigs. I didn't see this ever really happen from USC, at least not on a consistent basis. In her post-game presser she even commented that they didn't play the style of game they wanted to, if I remember correctly. I wonder why she didn't stick to her game-plan? They tried but we forced them to play at our pace.
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 15:50:26 GMT -8
Post by beaveragain on Mar 2, 2023 15:50:26 GMT -8
OSU's defense wasn't letting USC's team to play at the pace they wanted to. OSU's offense is mostly based off of two frosh who are not yet in college shape. Getting them to charge up and down the court probably not a great idea.
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 16:41:23 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Werebeaver on Mar 2, 2023 16:41:23 GMT -8
OSU's defense wasn't letting USC's team to play at the pace they wanted to. OSU's offense is mostly based off of two frosh who are not yet in college shape. Getting them to charge up and down the court probably not a great idea. Which 2 are those? Both Raegan and Adlee looked fast and energetic out there to my eyes. Raegan especially.
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 17:10:32 GMT -8
Post by beaveragain on Mar 2, 2023 17:10:32 GMT -8
OSU's defense wasn't letting USC's team to play at the pace they wanted to. OSU's offense is mostly based off of two frosh who are not yet in college shape. Getting them to charge up and down the court probably not a great idea. Which 2 are those? Both Raegan and Adlee looked fast and energetic out there to my eyes. Raegan especially. And OSU mostly wasn't trying to push the ball. Kinda my point.
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 17:15:56 GMT -8
via mobile
amber likes this
Post by Werebeaver on Mar 2, 2023 17:15:56 GMT -8
Which 2 are those? Both Raegan and Adlee looked fast and energetic out there to my eyes. Raegan especially. And OSU mostly wasn't trying to push the ball. Kinda my point. ”Not yet in college shape”? What exactly is “college shape”? And what % college basketball players would you consider to be in “college shape”. This whole discussion is unintentionally hilarious.
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 18:29:18 GMT -8
Post by sparty on Mar 2, 2023 18:29:18 GMT -8
Speaking of pace; before the game last night USC's coach said they wanted to push the ball and play a fast game to wear out our bigs. I didn't see this ever really happen from USC, at least not on a consistent basis. In her post-game presser she even commented that they didn't play the style of game they wanted to, if I remember correctly. I wonder why she didn't stick to her game-plan? They tried but we forced them to play at our pace. Speaking of Pace,
They did not pick it up.
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Pace
Mar 2, 2023 18:32:04 GMT -8
Post by sparty on Mar 2, 2023 18:32:04 GMT -8
And OSU mostly wasn't trying to push the ball. Kinda my point. ”Not yet in college shape”? What exactly is “college shape”? And what % college basketball players would you consider to be in “college shape”. This whole discussion is unintentionally hilarious. Yeah, made me laugh too. Is a nerd in college shape, maybe?
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Post by hoopheritic on Mar 3, 2023 10:04:23 GMT -8
We have not paid with pace because Talia has been the primary scorer and to enable that we have to play slower. With her out the ball is moving more, more paint touches, more side to side action leads to more pace and more players involved which leads to better flow and better defense. This team will be better with TVO in a specialist role; like a "3 Guard".
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Pace
Mar 3, 2023 10:18:37 GMT -8
Post by jdogge on Mar 3, 2023 10:18:37 GMT -8
We have not paid with pace because Talia has been the primary scorer and to enable that we have to play slower. With her out the ball is moving more, more paint touches, more side to side action leads to more pace and more players involved which leads to better flow and better defense. This team will be better with TVO in a specialist role; like a "3 Guard". "Danger Will Robinson!!!!" Around these parts, criticizing TVO is like saying someone's girlfriend is fugly. I hope you have good medical insurance.
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Pace
Mar 3, 2023 10:42:46 GMT -8
osu82 likes this
Post by orman58 on Mar 3, 2023 10:42:46 GMT -8
What is the difference between the first and second half last night? SR was standing calling plays in the second half. Notice how that slowed the pace. Once he called a play for one player the others began to stand. In addition, he was calling these plays with our players in front of our bench. Who else was there? The defense. Does he not think as he calls the plays the defense doesn't know where the ball is going?
The great coaches were standing mostly arguing with the refs. Picture John Wooden with the program wrapped in his hands as he sat and let the players run his system; Ralph Miller would have smoked Mores and drank scotch during a game if it were allowed; Lute Olsen let the players play.
Terry Stotts made an observation. The only time coaches can "score" is after time outs if they have called the correct play on the inbounds.
Ralph hated the bounce pass. At the end of the game AJ, who I think is going to be a major contributor as a Jr and Sr, threw a bounce pass at the end of the game on an inbound at half court. She could have thrown a chest pass. Instead the slower bounce pass gave Sherood time to get over and tip it out of Mannen's hands and a turnover to Colorado.
The announcers said "Colorado has increased the pace". Did we respond? No, we played on our heels. SR's system does nothing to force the other team to make mistakes.
Syd Luck threw the first pass in the NFL. If you were a qb that only ran, well you were out of the league. Woody Hayes and Dee Andros believed in the Wishbone and 4 yards and a cloud of dust. Split ends, as they were called, were blockers first. That was changing, but Hayes and Andros stuck with the old ways and were left behind.
7-10 years ago a slower pace was ok as it matched most of the athletes. Today's average WBB player is what 10 years age was the best (picture Beers dribbling up court). Skill and knowledge of the game is greatly expanded by all these women playing club and All Star teams for years. If SR doesn't alter his system to accommodate this new reality of athlete, he will be following Dee Andros and Jimmy Anderson in being left behind.
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osu82
Freshman
Posts: 654
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Post by osu82 on Mar 3, 2023 11:53:08 GMT -8
To your point “SR’s system does nothing to force the other team to make mistakes”, I went and looked at NCAA stats and see that OSU was able to claw their way up to #322 in turnover margin out of 350 teams. For most of the season OSU was dead last amongst D-1 teams in this metric. Of course, that means you are spotting the other teams 4,5,6 extra possessions, or more. It’s a hole to dig out of each game, and I’ve been puzzled why SR doesn’t seem to be fazed by it.
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Pace
Mar 3, 2023 12:06:30 GMT -8
Post by skyrider on Mar 3, 2023 12:06:30 GMT -8
To your point “SR’s system does nothing to force the other team to make mistakes”, I went and looked at NCAA stats and see that OSU was able to claw their way up to #322 in turnover margin out of 350 teams. For most of the season OSU was dead last amongst D-1 teams in this metric. Of course, that means you are spotting the other teams 4,5,6 extra possessions, or more. It’s a hole to dig out of each game, and I’ve been puzzled why SR doesn’t seem to be fazed by it. osu82,
Thanks for your insightful contribution.
My understanding of SR's defensive philosophy is that proper body positioning by the defender (i.e. staying in front of close enough to your opponent to (a) affect their ability to shoot and (b) not allowing them to drive by you to the basket) results in poor shooting percentages and less offensive rebounds by your opponent.
I recall opposing Coaches who lost game to OSU stating that philosophy was the reason they lost games to the Beavers (I remember Kim Mulkey saying that when OSU defeated her team in the NCAA tournament).
Even in this losing season, the point totals that the Beavs gave up were mostly low.
My view is that the defensive philosophy is fine, it is the offense where improvement must come from.
Gp Beavs!
s
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