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Post by skyrider on Feb 15, 2023 15:07:45 GMT -8
Do any of our Beaver experts have any factual information or informed speculation on why Timea G. played so very little in the USC game?
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 15, 2023 15:53:56 GMT -8
The two things that I've thought of is a relapse from her injury, and defense. Timea hasn't had much chance to practice defense with the team and if SR decided to use something that Timea hadn't done in the past he may have decided to put in people who were familiar with the system.
But no, no factual info.
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Post by skyrider on Feb 15, 2023 16:12:57 GMT -8
The two things that I've thought of is a relapse from her injury, and defense. Timea hasn't had much chance to practice defense with the team and if SR decided to use something that Timea hadn't done in the past he may have decided to put in people who were familiar with the system. But no, no factual info. beaveragain,
Thank you! Boy I sure hope it is not injury related, but then again if it is not, then given how seemingly difficult it is for this team to score points makes one wonder why she was not in the game a lot more.
After watching SR's teams for many years now, it is totally mystifying how this group can shoot so poorly from the 3 point areas.
Also it is frustrating and perplexing to me that A.J. is not a more consistent scorer. She is quick, an excellent leaper, has good form and quick release on her jump shot, can shoot off the dribble and create her own shot, everything would seem to be in place for her to be a big time scorer but it is just not happening. The effort is clearly there.
I guess it is like the results tor the team this season, seems like they should be winning more games than they are, but it is just not happening. Must be difficult for the players and Coaches.
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Post by grayman on Feb 15, 2023 16:45:12 GMT -8
The two things that I've thought of is a relapse from her injury, and defense. Timea hasn't had much chance to practice defense with the team and if SR decided to use something that Timea hadn't done in the past he may have decided to put in people who were familiar with the system. But no, no factual info. beaveragain,
Thank you! Boy I sure hope it is not injury related, but then again if it is not, then given how seemingly difficult it is for this team to score points makes one wonder why she was not in the game a lot more.
After watching SR's teams for many years now, it is totally mystifying how this group can shoot so poorly from the 3 point areas.
Also it is frustrating and perplexing to me that A.J. is not a more consistent scorer. She is quick, an excellent leaper, has good form and quick release on her jump shot, can shoot off the dribble and create her own shot, everything would seem to be in place for her to be a big time scorer but it is just not happening. The effort is clearly there.
I guess it is like the results tor the team this season, seems like they should be winning more games than they are, but it is just not happening. Must be difficult for the players and Coaches.
I keep bringing this up, but I think it's mainly inconsistent point guard play. That, combined with a lack of a go-to scorer (TVO would have filled this role). I also don't think the Beavers always move well without the ball and sometimes lack chemistry and those both contribute to some sloppy passing. I think Marotte is more of a second-tier scorer in that she's capable of good double-figure games but just isn't quite that game-in and game-out scorer. Not sure Rueck always puts her in the best positions substitution-wise. Like Beaveragain, I've thought it's Gardiner's defense (maybe she' been slow to pick it up) that has kept her from more minutes lately. But that's only my speculation. |
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Post by skyrider on Feb 15, 2023 20:57:57 GMT -8
I keep bringing this up, but I think it's mainly inconsistent point guard play. That, combined with a lack of a go-to scorer (TVO would have filled this role). I also don't think the Beavers always move well without the ball and sometimes lack chemistry and those both contribute to some sloppy passing. I think Marotte is more of a second-tier scorer in that she's capable of good double-figure games but just isn't quite that game-in and game-out scorer. Not sure Rueck always puts her in the best positions substitution-wise. Like Beaveragain, I've thought it's Gardiner's defense (maybe she' been slow to pick it up) that has kept her from more minutes lately. But that's only my speculation. It is really too bad that this is Bendu's last year. She is one great athlete. This team appears so close and yet so far away from being a really, really good team. Glad I am not the Coach right now. SR is having to decide who to play and who not to play based on so many factors (i.e no way are we going to the NCAA tournament, transfer portal considerations, development for the future, etc., etc.) other than just who are the best 5 at this given moment.
It will be interesting to see if TVO plays any more this year. Apparently this foot injury has been on-going and will require off-season surgery. The hope probably was that she could play out the year, but the situation may have worsened.
Something offensively that I would like to see is Raegan setting a screen for Bendu somewhere between the free throw line and the top of the key. Then Bendu and Raegan do the pick and roll thing that is so successful for so many teams.
I also believe high low action with Jelena midway between the top of the key and the free throw line and Raegan posting up down low would really work. Jelena is a very good passer and has a decent mid-range shot. With her height she could she over defenders and I do not believe there is a player in the league who can prevent Raegan from posting up low. Some of them can block her shot but none of them can prevent her from getting excellent low post position.
Go Beavs.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Feb 16, 2023 10:32:54 GMT -8
I would hope we’re more worried about not scoring a FG in that entire OT than how good TG’s defense is. Unless she is still recovering, her playing single digit minutes is just really bad strategy
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Post by hoopheritic on Feb 16, 2023 11:52:07 GMT -8
I would hope we’re more worried about not scoring a FG in that entire OT than how good TG’s defense is. Unless she is still recovering, her playing single digit minutes is just really bad strategy We struggle to score in game closing situations big time. There are 3 main factors I see teams that struggle to score in game closing situations: - Post-centric offense. Post ups are already inefficient and slow but become even more of a problem late in a game when defensive intensity increases and refs let the players play. Elite teams will go smaller in the front court and longer in the back court in game closing situations and we tend to stay big or go bigger in the front court. We've had Jelena and Reagan on the floor at the same time in these situations a few times.
- Wrong primary ball handlers. Bendu isn't a great creator for teammates nor is Talia so we end up playing iso ball with one who isn't a great scorer and the other who can't separate from late game intense defense. Not sure we currently have an answer to this. Short term I'd look to players who can penetrate and finish.
- Young team. This team is full of players you are worried about making mistakes and that makes it difficult to improvise when actions break down as they, more often than not, do late in the game.
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Post by skyrider on Feb 16, 2023 12:33:39 GMT -8
We struggle to score in game closing situations big time. There are 3 main factors I see teams that struggle to score in game closing situations: - Post-centric offense. Post ups are already inefficient and slow but become even more of a problem late in a game when defensive intensity increases and refs let the players play. Elite teams will go smaller in the front court and longer in the back court in game closing situations and we tend to stay big or go bigger in the front court. We've had Jelena and Reagan on the floor at the same time in these situations a few times.
- Wrong primary ball handlers. Bendu isn't a great creator for teammates nor is Talia so we end up playing iso ball with one who isn't a great scorer and the other who can't separate from late game intense defense. Not sure we currently have an answer to this. Short term I'd look to players who can penetrate and finish.
- Young team. This team is full of players you are worried about making mistakes and that makes it difficult to improvise when actions break down as they, more often than not, do late in the game.
hoopherritic,
Outstanding observations and insights! I would appreciate your view on how this team will fare next year assuming that all current players that can return do so and the two new freshmen arrive.
Thank you!
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rafer
Sophomore
Posts: 1,627 
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Post by rafer on Feb 16, 2023 13:08:21 GMT -8
No idea about next year, other than to say, it will be a LOT better. Too much talent on this team to not put it together next year, assuming they all stay and maybe gain a couple assets in the portal. We don't have the ability to NIL with ducks, USUC, and the like, but I'm hoping, betting, things are a lot better next year in corn valley. It's a totally disappointing year, flush it, and here comes Baseball.
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Post by grayman on Feb 16, 2023 13:33:25 GMT -8
I would hope we’re more worried about not scoring a FG in that entire OT than how good TG’s defense is. Unless she is still recovering, her playing single digit minutes is just really bad strategy We struggle to score in game closing situations big time. There are 3 main factors I see teams that struggle to score in game closing situations: - Post-centric offense. Post ups are already inefficient and slow but become even more of a problem late in a game when defensive intensity increases and refs let the players play. Elite teams will go smaller in the front court and longer in the back court in game closing situations and we tend to stay big or go bigger in the front court. We've had Jelena and Reagan on the floor at the same time in these situations a few times.
- Wrong primary ball handlers. Bendu isn't a great creator for teammates nor is Talia so we end up playing iso ball with one who isn't a great scorer and the other who can't separate from late game intense defense. Not sure we currently have an answer to this. Short term I'd look to players who can penetrate and finish.
- Young team. This team is full of players you are worried about making mistakes and that makes it difficult to improvise when actions break down as they, more often than not, do late in the game.
Yeah. I would say that running the post-ups can be a slow process, but not necessarily inefficient. Beers is very effective once she gets the ball down low. The bigger issue is getting her the ball with consistent entry passes, which has not happened this season. I haven't seen many teams that struggle with entry passes to the degree the Beavers have. I think you hit the nail on the head with the wrong primary ballhandlers but I don't see a good current answer to the problem. Bendu fits if you just want a player who can penetrate and finish. The team is young but is not without experience. I've made this point in other threads because while I agree that the team is young, I think it's become too much of an excuse. Beers has played a fair amount the whole season, but she also plays at a high level. Gardiner has played in nine games. Martha, Blacklock and Hansford have spent much of the season on the bench. I think the youthfulness of the team stands out more because those with experience haven't really played good basketball consistently. |
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Post by hoopheritic on Feb 16, 2023 14:49:28 GMT -8
We struggle to score in game closing situations big time. There are 3 main factors I see teams that struggle to score in game closing situations: - Post-centric offense. Post ups are already inefficient and slow but become even more of a problem late in a game when defensive intensity increases and refs let the players play. Elite teams will go smaller in the front court and longer in the back court in game closing situations and we tend to stay big or go bigger in the front court. We've had Jelena and Reagan on the floor at the same time in these situations a few times.
- Wrong primary ball handlers. Bendu isn't a great creator for teammates nor is Talia so we end up playing iso ball with one who isn't a great scorer and the other who can't separate from late game intense defense. Not sure we currently have an answer to this. Short term I'd look to players who can penetrate and finish.
- Young team. This team is full of players you are worried about making mistakes and that makes it difficult to improvise when actions break down as they, more often than not, do late in the game.
hoopherritic,
Outstanding observations and insights! I would appreciate your view on how this team will fare next year assuming that all current players that can return do so and the two new freshmen arrive.
Thank you!
If the team stays together, plus the '23s coming in, I would focus on a core 3 of TVO, AJ, Gardner then go big or small off of that. Standard 5: Beers, Gardner, TVO, AJ, Martha Small ball 5: Gardner, TVO, AJ, Martha, Lex Jumbo package: Jelena, Beers, Gardner, TVO, AJ That core three can defend everywhere and switch everything which is incredibly important in the Pac12. I think Timea will be our leading scorer and and Raegan up next. Talia and AJ will be about the same on a team that does that it will just vary by game. I think that will be the hard pill to swallow; a team where TVO is the leading scorer I don't think can make a deep run. Sunday was the first time she missed a game and that team was engaged in a way I haven't seen yet. Maybe first half against AZ. It's not strictly about basketball as it appears to me she doesn't have the leadership gene. If Timea gets defense figured out and if AJ can be consistent plus bring that 3 up above 33% that alone levels up this team. Even if AJ isn't scoring I see here as our own Draymond Green; elite utility player who can switch everything. Martha is going to be a great PG, she just needed an entire year to turn her body in that of a P5 player. I think she will be the biggest surprise next season. Things I'm worried about: Lex, her knee isn't right you can see it when she runs down the court. Her experience has helped her mitigate the effect of it but hopefully she can rest and recover this off season. Adlee will need to find speed that I haven't seen from her and Lily will need to put on ~15 lbs. At her length she needs to be an option at the 4 when we need it. Tactically if I were to change one thing it would be to change our fast break strategy. I die inside a little every time I see a competent ball handler get a D board and then a smaller player turns around to get the ball from them while the other team uses that 2 seconds to get back on D. On this team right now if Jelena or Raegan grab a D board, sure look for the outlet. If anyone else grabs the D board EVERYONE should hit the lanes and we should even think about setting up in the half court until we get to the nail and we've been stopped with no option but to setup. Last year Rueck intentionally slowed the game down to accommodate Talia, it's time to give up on that. |
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Post by jdogge on Feb 16, 2023 14:58:46 GMT -8
hoopherritic,
Outstanding observations and insights! I would appreciate your view on how this team will fare next year assuming that all current players that can return do so and the two new freshmen arrive.
Thank you!
If the team stays together, plus the '23s coming in, I would focus on a core 3 of TVO, AJ, Gardner then go big or small off of that. Standard 5: Beers, Gardner, TVO, AJ, Martha Small ball 5: Gardner, TVO, AJ, Martha, Lex Jumbo package: Jelena, Beers, Gardner, TVO, AJ That core three can defend everywhere and switch everything which is incredibly important in the Pac12. I think Timea will be our leading scorer and and Raegan up next. Talia and AJ will be about the same on a team that does that it will just vary by game. I think that will be the hard pill to swallow; a team where TVO is the leading scorer I don't think can make a deep run. Sunday was the first time she missed a game and that team was engaged in a way I haven't seen yet. Maybe first half against AZ. It's not strictly about basketball as it appears to me she doesn't have the leadership gene. If Timea gets defense figured out and if AJ can be consistent plus bring that 3 up above 33% that alone levels up this team. Even if AJ isn't scoring I see here as our own Draymond Green; elite utility player who can switch everything. Martha is going to be a great PG, she just needed an entire year to turn her body in that of a P5 player. I think she will be the biggest surprise next season. Things I'm worried about: Lex, her knee isn't right you can see it when she runs down the court. Her experience has helped her mitigate the effect of it but hopefully she can rest and recover this off season. Adlee will need to find speed that I haven't seen from her and Lily will need to put on ~15 lbs. At her length she needs to be an option at the 4 when we need it. Tactically if I were to change one thing it would be to change our fast break strategy. I die inside a little every time I see a competent ball handler get a D board and then a smaller player turns around to get the ball from them while the other team uses that 2 seconds to get back on D. On this team right now if Jelena or Raegan grab a D board, sure look for the outlet. If anyone else grabs the D board EVERYONE should hit the lanes and we should even think about setting up in the half court until we get to the nail and we've been stopped with no option but to setup. Last year Rueck intentionally slowed the game down to accommodate Talia, it's time to give up on that. Interesting. Do you have any info about TVO's injury? Has she been playing hurt? That might explain her FG% throughout the season. |
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Post by hoopheritic on Feb 16, 2023 15:35:47 GMT -8
If the team stays together, plus the '23s coming in, I would focus on a core 3 of TVO, AJ, Gardner then go big or small off of that. Standard 5: Beers, Gardner, TVO, AJ, Martha Small ball 5: Gardner, TVO, AJ, Martha, Lex Jumbo package: Jelena, Beers, Gardner, TVO, AJ That core three can defend everywhere and switch everything which is incredibly important in the Pac12. I think Timea will be our leading scorer and and Raegan up next. Talia and AJ will be about the same on a team that does that it will just vary by game. I think that will be the hard pill to swallow; a team where TVO is the leading scorer I don't think can make a deep run. Sunday was the first time she missed a game and that team was engaged in a way I haven't seen yet. Maybe first half against AZ. It's not strictly about basketball as it appears to me she doesn't have the leadership gene. If Timea gets defense figured out and if AJ can be consistent plus bring that 3 up above 33% that alone levels up this team. Even if AJ isn't scoring I see here as our own Draymond Green; elite utility player who can switch everything. Martha is going to be a great PG, she just needed an entire year to turn her body in that of a P5 player. I think she will be the biggest surprise next season. Things I'm worried about: Lex, her knee isn't right you can see it when she runs down the court. Her experience has helped her mitigate the effect of it but hopefully she can rest and recover this off season. Adlee will need to find speed that I haven't seen from her and Lily will need to put on ~15 lbs. At her length she needs to be an option at the 4 when we need it. Tactically if I were to change one thing it would be to change our fast break strategy. I die inside a little every time I see a competent ball handler get a D board and then a smaller player turns around to get the ball from them while the other team uses that 2 seconds to get back on D. On this team right now if Jelena or Raegan grab a D board, sure look for the outlet. If anyone else grabs the D board EVERYONE should hit the lanes and we should even think about setting up in the half court until we get to the nail and we've been stopped with no option but to setup. Last year Rueck intentionally slowed the game down to accommodate Talia, it's time to give up on that. Interesting. Do you have any info about TVO's injury? Has she been playing hurt? That might explain her FG% throughout the season. I don't have any inside information. I was surprised as everyone else when she sat on Sunday. |
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Feb 16, 2023 15:52:51 GMT -8
Interesting. Do you have any info about TVO's injury? Has she been playing hurt? That might explain her FG% throughout the season. The information about Talia is that she has an injury but it is not going to get worse by playing and then after the season she will get it taken care of. So yes she had been playing hurt this year. I think she was injured after the season began. |
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Post by lotrader on Feb 16, 2023 16:02:16 GMT -8
hoopherritic,
Outstanding observations and insights! I would appreciate your view on how this team will fare next year assuming that all current players that can return do so and the two new freshmen arrive.
Thank you!
If the team stays together, plus the '23s coming in, I would focus on a core 3 of TVO, AJ, Gardner then go big or small off of that. Standard 5: Beers, Gardner, TVO, AJ, Martha Small ball 5: Gardner, TVO, AJ, Martha, Lex Jumbo package: Jelena, Beers, Gardner, TVO, AJ That core three can defend everywhere and switch everything which is incredibly important in the Pac12. I think Timea will be our leading scorer and and Raegan up next. Talia and AJ will be about the same on a team that does that it will just vary by game. I think that will be the hard pill to swallow; a team where TVO is the leading scorer I don't think can make a deep run. Sunday was the first time she missed a game and that team was engaged in a way I haven't seen yet. Maybe first half against AZ. It's not strictly about basketball as it appears to me she doesn't have the leadership gene. If Timea gets defense figured out and if AJ can be consistent plus bring that 3 up above 33% that alone levels up this team. Even if AJ isn't scoring I see here as our own Draymond Green; elite utility player who can switch everything. Martha is going to be a great PG, she just needed an entire year to turn her body in that of a P5 player. I think she will be the biggest surprise next season. Things I'm worried about: Lex, her knee isn't right you can see it when she runs down the court. Her experience has helped her mitigate the effect of it but hopefully she can rest and recover this off season. Adlee will need to find speed that I haven't seen from her and Lily will need to put on ~15 lbs. At her length she needs to be an option at the 4 when we need it. Tactically if I were to change one thing it would be to change our fast break strategy. I die inside a little every time I see a competent ball handler get a D board and then a smaller player turns around to get the ball from them while the other team uses that 2 seconds to get back on D. On this team right now if Jelena or Raegan grab a D board, sure look for the outlet. If anyone else grabs the D board EVERYONE should hit the lanes and we should even think about setting up in the half court until we get to the nail and we've been stopped with no option but to setup. Last year Rueck intentionally slowed the game down to accommodate Talia, it's time to give up on that. @hoopherritic, great post! Love your observations. I think the team played much better as a TEAM vs USC. I think coaches have had TvO in the wrong role since Aleah Goodman graduated. TvO was dynamite when she arrived because Aleah Goodman ran the team and TvO's only offensive responsibility was to get open and score or pass. Coaches need to free up TvO again and not ask her to play PG, or even run plays for her from the PG position. Instead run plays for TvO like we did for Kat Tudor. I even think TvO could play at the 4. I would add that Jelena needs to add upper body strength over the off season. Love your comparison of AJ to Draymond Green. AJ played great vs USC. AJ brought the ball up court multiple times vs USC which was a huge help getting us into our offense quicker, and, not suffering a backcourt turnover. AJ did many other very positive things in the USC game and really should be getting a lot of minutes. I am really impressed with Lily. She is smart, and at 6'2" she does a great job defensively on the perimeter. Lily and AJ played terrific perimeter defense in the USC game. I am still hopeful that Martha will blossom in her sophomore season. Martha needs to pick up her 3-point percentage (as do many). Martha is very good at creating separation, but she has to be able to launch and hit 3-pointers so the defense is penalized for sagging off her to double our BIGs. I'm still hopeful for a strong finish for the Beavs through the next 4 games and PAC-12 Tournament. |
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