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Post by irimi on Dec 2, 2022 13:03:58 GMT -8
Hey we can sure hope for the best! Sounds like an amazing prospect for sure. On the other hand, I keep hearing about BG "improving." Seems like an odd take knowing by far his worst game was his most recent. His ceiling is high…for handing the ball to the running back.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 2, 2022 13:14:31 GMT -8
Hey we can sure hope for the best! Sounds like an amazing prospect for sure. On the other hand, I keep hearing about BG "improving." Seems like an odd take knowing by far his worst game was his most recent. Oregon kept running zones in nickel. And for some reason, we kept passing into it. Also the shadows in the partially-completed stadium made it difficult to read the defense and catch balls. I saw both teams struggle with it occasionally. BG was 15/21, 188 yards, and a touchdown in Tempe. BG also ran for 36 yards and a touchdown. Basically beat Arizona State by himself. He needs to get better at picking up defenders. Finally, I personally hate that Oregon got to wear green at Reser. In shadowy situations, it can get very difficult to see those defenders against the green turf, especially when the Ducks are running out zones in nickel.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 2, 2022 13:17:16 GMT -8
Their ratings are pretty much identical - Chance's edge is pretty small there, and 25% of Chance's play this year was against a poor FCS defense. And I'd argue that with a strong running game, the ability to not turn the ball over is more important than passing TDs. I'm sad that he left, but I also hope that the play he demonstrated this season would not be enough to win the job next year. Given that GB was able to pretty much match his overall rating and with fewer chances/experience to get there, maybe the writing was on the wall. Yep. Four of Nolan's TD passes came against Montana State. And he had eight interceptions in 16 quarters. That's not anywhere near good QB play and Smith was all too aware of it. I believe he was never going back to Nolan. 6 of those 8 interceptions occurred in 5 quarters, prior to that in his OSU career he threw 14 ints in roughly 18 and a half games of playing time, two of those being FCS schools. Not wonderful, but not the interception machine some here make him out to be. His 20 career interceptions hold up quite comparably to Derek Anderson's junior and senior years, Matt Moore's junior year, Sean Mannion's (who threw 10 Interceptions in 12 quarters in his third full year as a starter) first 2 years and part of his 3rd, the 22 ints Sean Canfield threw in his first 530 or so passes here over 4 separate years... OSU's 20 year history is basically loaded with QBs that averaged 20Ints over 500 passing attempts for a year or more that somehow got NFL contracts. I'm in no way saying Nolan is NFL worthy, but in no way do we know what Coach Smith would have done with him had he remained healthy. I want great QB play for the Beavers as much as anyone, I just think some people are being pretty darned critical about what we do have.
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Post by beavadelic on Dec 2, 2022 13:19:54 GMT -8
Their ratings are pretty much identical - Chance's edge is pretty small there, and 25% of Chance's play this year was against a poor FCS defense. And I'd argue that with a strong running game, the ability to not turn the ball over is more important than passing TDs. I'm sad that he left, but I also hope that the play he demonstrated this season would not be enough to win the job next year. Given that GB was able to pretty much match his overall rating and with fewer chances/experience to get there, maybe the writing was on the wall. Yep. Four of Nolan's TD passes came against Montana State. And he had eight interceptions in 16 quarters. That's not anywhere near good QB play and Smith was all too aware of it. I believe he was never going back to Nolan. It certainly didn’t help us in comparison at the position, that the conference had, IMO, 7 of the best QBs around. I think that Williams is the most dynamic guy I’ve seen in years. DT-R, Nix, Ward and deLaura are electric, and Penix, Jr. Is ridiculous. Oh yeah, and even though his antics rub me wrong at times, their’s Cam Risling. He’s also a major impact QB. The interesting thing is that the pro scouts continue to be drawn to Tanner McKee, who zero help this year(I think that if the Beavs had him we’d be lining up for Pasadena). Even Plummer of Cal and the kid that started the second half of the season at ASU are legit D-1 talents. We were not close to the majority of the league at the position. That’s not to say that Chance and Ben weren’t hard workers or good teammates. At times they even made some exceptional plays, but when the others I mentioned dropped back to throw (particularly that top 7), I just knew that they would make something positive happen, and I didn’t want them to have the ball at the end of the game against us with a chance to win. I am beyond thankful for our strong O-line and running game, but against elite defenses with elite athletes, they will take away the run to a large degree, and force our Qb to make plays to beat them. I have to be honest, in our current state, that prospect scares me. JS is doing a great job and I love where we are heading, but the talent in the QB room has to improve, and I believe that AC fits into the category of a potential game- changer. It would be silly to predict how it will go for him before he even steps foot on a college practice field, but my orange-colored glasses are flashing that help is coming soon. It would mean the next step for our program!
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Post by kersting13 on Dec 2, 2022 14:19:56 GMT -8
Heisman, 2 national championships, highly regarded as a good dude, and a more or less lifetime guarantee as a broadcaster and analysis for sports distributers. Yeah his mom is probably super proud. That was, of course, directed at his NFL apologists who thought he should be an NFL QB even after he proved to the world that he was NOT. Tebow was an amazing college QB. In the NFL, his teams won in spite of him, even though he did have a propensity to "athlete" himself into amazing plays from time to time. But, you knew that.
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Post by grayman on Dec 2, 2022 14:42:19 GMT -8
Yep. Four of Nolan's TD passes came against Montana State. And he had eight interceptions in 16 quarters. That's not anywhere near good QB play and Smith was all too aware of it. I believe he was never going back to Nolan. 6 of those 8 interceptions occurred in 5 quarters, prior to that in his OSU career he threw 14 ints in roughly 18 and a half games of playing time, two of those being FCS schools. Not wonderful, but not the interception machine some here make him out to be. His 20 career interceptions hold up quite comparably to Derek Anderson's junior and senior years, Matt Moore's junior year, Sean Mannion's (who threw 10 Interceptions in 12 quarters in his third full year as a starter) first 2 years and part of his 3rd, the 22 ints Sean Canfield threw in his first 530 or so passes here over 4 separate years... OSU's 20 year history is basically loaded with QBs that averaged 20Ints over 500 passing attempts for a year or more that somehow got NFL contracts. I'm in no way saying Nolan is NFL worthy, but in no way do we know what Coach Smith would have done with him had he remained healthy. I want great QB play for the Beavers as much as anyone, I just think some people are being pretty darned critical about what we do have. Yeah, I agree that people have been too critical of both Nolan and BG, but the time period in question is this season and those performances within. If you want to look at what Nolan did last season, he put up pretty good numbers (204-318, 2,677 yards, 19 TDs, 10 ints). But DA and Mannion threw a lot more passes for a lot more yards. DA was 211-449 for 3,313 and 25 TDs, 13 ints; 240-477, 3,736, 22 TDs, 23 ints and 279-515, 3,615, 29 TDs, 17 ints. Mannion definitely was shakier at times. 305-473 3,328, 16 TDs, 18 ints; 200-309, 2,446, 15 TDs, 13 ints (shared time with Vaz); then his huge season 400-602, 4,662, 37 TDs, 15 ints before coming back down to earth with 282-453, 3,164, 15 TDs, 8 ints. Canfield was not great until his final season: 303-446, 3,271, 21 TDs and 7 ints. Same with Matt Moore: 229-378, 3,002, 18 TDs, 7 ints. Jake Luton was 222-358, 2,714, 28 TDs, 3 ints in his last real season. All of them had strong finishes but all reached that point via different paths. Really, the best statistical comparisons for Nolan's 2021 season were Ryan Katz 213-355, 2,401, 18 TDs, 11 ints and Lyle Moevao 214-361, 2534, 19 TDs, 13 ints. Nolan was slightly better than both. Really, it's closer to apples and oranges when comparing what Nolan did and the offenses that DA, Mannion, etc. ran at OSU. I don't think Nolan was an interception machine overall, but he went completely haywire in his last six quarters this year.
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Post by Bodhisattva on Dec 2, 2022 14:43:06 GMT -8
Quitter. We make it so easy now days for kids to quit. That’s all I have to say. For far too long we have put up with those that would make others suffer simply because at one time they had suffered. I think there is something to be said for enduring trial and tribulations and coming out stronger on the other side. Life won't always allow you to be able to transfer to other options like football. Being able to adapt and learn from situations when things aren't going your way is positive personal trait. With that being said, I think there is valid reasons to transfer, but I think alot of kids that aren't chasing the money (can't blame them for looking for money), want the aspect that people will wooo them and boost their ego a little bit.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 2, 2022 15:25:36 GMT -8
6 of those 8 interceptions occurred in 5 quarters, prior to that in his OSU career he threw 14 ints in roughly 18 and a half games of playing time, two of those being FCS schools. Not wonderful, but not the interception machine some here make him out to be. His 20 career interceptions hold up quite comparably to Derek Anderson's junior and senior years, Matt Moore's junior year, Sean Mannion's (who threw 10 Interceptions in 12 quarters in his third full year as a starter) first 2 years and part of his 3rd, the 22 ints Sean Canfield threw in his first 530 or so passes here over 4 separate years... OSU's 20 year history is basically loaded with QBs that averaged 20Ints over 500 passing attempts for a year or more that somehow got NFL contracts. I'm in no way saying Nolan is NFL worthy, but in no way do we know what Coach Smith would have done with him had he remained healthy. I want great QB play for the Beavers as much as anyone, I just think some people are being pretty darned critical about what we do have. Yeah, I agree that people have been too critical of both Nolan and BG, but the time period in question is this season and those performances within. If you want to look at what Nolan did last season, he put up pretty good numbers (204-318, 2,677 yards, 19 TDs, 10 ints). But DA and Mannion threw a lot more passes for a lot more yards. DA was 211-449 for 3,313 and 25 TDs, 13 ints; 240-477, 3,736, 22 TDs, 23 ints and 279-515, 3,615, 29 TDs, 17 ints. Mannion definitely was shakier at times. 305-473 3,328, 16 TDs, 18 ints; 200-309, 2,446, 15 TDs, 13 ints (shared time with Vaz); then his huge season 400-602, 4,662, 37 TDs, 15 ints before coming back down to earth with 282-453, 3,164, 15 TDs, 8 ints. Canfield was not great until his final season: 303-446, 3,271, 21 TDs and 7 ints. Same with Matt Moore: 229-378, 3,002, 18 TDs, 7 ints. Jake Luton was 222-358, 2,714, 28 TDs, 3 ints in his last real season. All of them had strong finishes but all reached that point via different paths. Really, the best statistical comparisons for Nolan's 2021 season were Ryan Katz 213-355, 2,401, 18 TDs, 11 ints and Lyle Moevao 214-361, 2534, 19 TDs, 13 ints. Nolan was slightly better than both. Really, it's closer to apples and oranges when comparing what Nolan did and the offenses that DA, Mannion, etc. ran at OSU. I don't think Nolan was an interception machine overall, but he went completely haywire in his last six quarters this year. The highlighted phrase above is my biggest point. There were OSU fans during all of them that, just like now with Chance and Ben (assuming more sub par games occur at some point), wanted to shut those pathways down. I'm all for letting the coaches play whichever players they want... I'm pretty sure I've not questioned that, some here have.
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Post by beaverstever on Dec 2, 2022 15:51:20 GMT -8
Yep. Four of Nolan's TD passes came against Montana State. And he had eight interceptions in 16 quarters. That's not anywhere near good QB play and Smith was all too aware of it. I believe he was never going back to Nolan. It certainly didn’t help us in comparison at the position, that the conference had, IMO, 7 of the best QBs around. I think that Williams is the most dynamic guy I’ve seen in years. DT-R, Nix, Ward and deLaura are electric, and Penix, Jr. Is ridiculous. Oh yeah, and even though his antics rub me wrong at times, their’s Cam Risling. He’s also a major impact QB. The interesting thing is that the pro scouts continue to be drawn to Tanner McKee, who zero help this year(I think that if the Beavs had him we’d be lining up for Pasadena). Even Plummer of Cal and the kid that started the second half of the season at ASU are legit D-1 talents. We were not close to the majority of the league at the position. That’s not to say that Chance and Ben weren’t hard workers or good teammates. At times they even made some exceptional plays, but when the others I mentioned dropped back to throw (particularly that top 7), I just knew that they would make something positive happen, and I didn’t want them to have the ball at the end of the game against us with a chance to win. I am beyond thankful for our strong O-line and running game, but against elite defenses with elite athletes, they will take away the run to a large degree, and force our Qb to make plays to beat them. I have to be honest, in our current state, that prospect scares me. JS is doing a great job and I love where we are heading, but the talent in the QB room has to improve, and I believe that AC fits into the category of a potential game- changer. It would be silly to predict how it will go for him before he even steps foot on a college practice field, but my orange-colored glasses are flashing that help is coming soon. It would mean the next step for our program! This is a pretty interesting point about the state of QBs in the conference. But IMO, it just makes it even more urgent that an upgrade is needed. Heck, even Colorado got a conference win basically on the back of heroic QB play on an awful team. Is there a single conference team that would have started any of our QBs this year? For sure 8 teams would not have, and the other 3 are also probably not IMO. I think we can appreciate what our QBs did for us this year and still be cognizant of the reality.
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Post by TheGlove on Dec 2, 2022 16:03:19 GMT -8
Marginally though. Excluding Utah, a game each player split, Against FBS competition, OSU offense average just under 20 yards per game more, nearly all attributed to Nolan running, which Gulbranson doesn't really do. However, in the same FBS game analysis (excluding Montana State in other words, which was massive statistical outlier performance against a lower division school) Chance's lead beavers scored 27.6 points in his starts while Gulbranson score 31.6. Neither, however, really put the offense on their shoulders. Chance and Ben combined for 15 TDs through the air. while we put in 33 TDs on the ground. Chance had 1 rushing TD, Bulbranson had 4. Point is, Chance had ever opportunity to take this team over and progress with it, as I noted before not only did he not progress, he appeared to regress. His 2021 performance was generally better than what he was showing so far in 2022. Weren't all Gulbransons "rushing" TD's like half yard plungers though? With our O line those are gimmes no. Check the asu highlights for at least one example
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Post by vhalum92 on Dec 2, 2022 16:17:47 GMT -8
Hey we can sure hope for the best! Sounds like an amazing prospect for sure. On the other hand, I keep hearing about BG "improving." Seems like an odd take knowing by far his worst game was his most recent. I don't think BG is the "answer". I was excited we got to see him play, he was a very successful H.S. QB However, let's be fair... we were without Gould for the last 2 games. Harrison's fumble in the CW was not on BG. I can make a list of things BG needs to improve on... one is the deep ball and I was pleasantly surprised that Nolan did improve on his deep throws over the summer. BG has a good arm. He needs to figure out who to throw to and when. Also eye discipline. He struggled the most against the upper tier defenses. The UW game in the wind... it sure would be interesting to replay that game with good weather. Anyway, it is a team game and BG was missing an important piece of the puzzle the last 2 games. Hoping Gould can get back for a bowl game. I've never heard anything but a "leg" injury sustained at practice. Has anyone heard a time frame for his return?
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nsh03
Freshman
Posts: 128
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Post by nsh03 on Dec 2, 2022 16:24:15 GMT -8
Oregon kept running zones in nickel. And for some reason, we kept passing into it. Also the shadows in the partially-completed stadium made it difficult to read the defense and catch balls. I saw both teams struggle with it occasionally. BG was 15/21, 188 yards, and a touchdown in Tempe. BG also ran for 36 yards and a touchdown. Basically beat Arizona State by himself. He needs to get better at picking up defenders. Finally, I personally hate that Oregon got to wear green at Reser. In shadowy situations, it can get very difficult to see those defenders against the green turf, especially when the Ducks are running out zones in nickel. I was right behind Ben in the North end zone looking straight down that right sideline where he threw the first pick. It was not difficult to see the defenders he threw to; I saw them clearly, as did everyone around me. The first one was just an ill-advised, inaccurate throw. The second one, he apparently not only couldn't see the defender, he also couldn't see his TE breaking wide open in the flat. He was locked onto the receiver coming across the middle downfield, and the guy sitting in the zone underneath was all over it. From my vantage point, the defender who made the pick looked like Ben's intended receiver. Nix, BTW, made a similar throw right in front of me that Fisher just didn't make him pay for. I don't think anyone would argue that Nix just couldn't see him, what with the orange uniform and all.
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nsh03
Freshman
Posts: 128
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Post by nsh03 on Dec 2, 2022 16:28:07 GMT -8
Hoping Gould can get back for a bowl game. I've never heard anything but a "leg" injury sustained at practice. Has anyone heard a time frame for his return? He came out for warmups in the CW in uniform with a sleeve on one knee, but apparently it was determined that he was not quite good to play. If they gave him the opportunity to test it out in warmups before ruling him out of the CW, I'm hopeful he'll be good to go for the bowl game.
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Post by grayman on Dec 2, 2022 16:36:21 GMT -8
Yeah, I agree that people have been too critical of both Nolan and BG, but the time period in question is this season and those performances within. If you want to look at what Nolan did last season, he put up pretty good numbers (204-318, 2,677 yards, 19 TDs, 10 ints). But DA and Mannion threw a lot more passes for a lot more yards. DA was 211-449 for 3,313 and 25 TDs, 13 ints; 240-477, 3,736, 22 TDs, 23 ints and 279-515, 3,615, 29 TDs, 17 ints. Mannion definitely was shakier at times. 305-473 3,328, 16 TDs, 18 ints; 200-309, 2,446, 15 TDs, 13 ints (shared time with Vaz); then his huge season 400-602, 4,662, 37 TDs, 15 ints before coming back down to earth with 282-453, 3,164, 15 TDs, 8 ints. Canfield was not great until his final season: 303-446, 3,271, 21 TDs and 7 ints. Same with Matt Moore: 229-378, 3,002, 18 TDs, 7 ints. Jake Luton was 222-358, 2,714, 28 TDs, 3 ints in his last real season. All of them had strong finishes but all reached that point via different paths. Really, the best statistical comparisons for Nolan's 2021 season were Ryan Katz 213-355, 2,401, 18 TDs, 11 ints and Lyle Moevao 214-361, 2534, 19 TDs, 13 ints. Nolan was slightly better than both. Really, it's closer to apples and oranges when comparing what Nolan did and the offenses that DA, Mannion, etc. ran at OSU. I don't think Nolan was an interception machine overall, but he went completely haywire in his last six quarters this year. The highlighted phrase above is my biggest point. There were OSU fans during all of them that, just like now with Chance and Ben (assuming more sub par games occur at some point), wanted to shut those pathways down. I'm all for letting the coaches play whichever players they want... I'm pretty sure I've not questioned that, some here have. Yep. No argument from me about that. Fans melt down way too quickly every time a QB has a rough game. And sometimes over just a bad pass or two.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 2, 2022 20:24:34 GMT -8
Oregon kept running zones in nickel. And for some reason, we kept passing into it. Also the shadows in the partially-completed stadium made it difficult to read the defense and catch balls. I saw both teams struggle with it occasionally. BG was 15/21, 188 yards, and a touchdown in Tempe. BG also ran for 36 yards and a touchdown. Basically beat Arizona State by himself. He needs to get better at picking up defenders. Finally, I personally hate that Oregon got to wear green at Reser. In shadowy situations, it can get very difficult to see those defenders against the green turf, especially when the Ducks are running out zones in nickel. I was right behind Ben in the North end zone looking straight down that right sideline where he threw the first pick. It was not difficult to see the defenders he threw to; I saw them clearly, as did everyone around me. The first one was just an ill-advised, inaccurate throw. The second one, he apparently not only couldn't see the defender, he also couldn't see his TE breaking wide open in the flat. He was locked onto the receiver coming across the middle downfield, and the guy sitting in the zone underneath was all over it. From my vantage point, the defender who made the pick looked like Ben's intended receiver. Nix, BTW, made a similar throw right in front of me that Fisher just didn't make him pay for. I don't think anyone would argue that Nix just couldn't see him, what with the orange uniform and all. I personally don't think that Ben saw either defender. The first one was on the money, but he didn't see the defender underneath. It wasn't his TE on the second INT; it was his FB. And he was covered by Jeffrey Bassa, who made the interception. Tre'Shaun Harrison was also actually wide open. But Bassa was so late to get over on the FB that he accidentally drifted into BG's throwing lane.
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