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Jul 4, 2022 8:09:37 GMT -8
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jul 4, 2022 8:09:37 GMT -8
Yeah but this is a thread about football not covid politics. Now to read about the shifts in football you have to read a bunch of ideology arguments from entrenched sources that won’t change any opinions. USC and UCLA left for money. The only important question right now is are AD’s working to get out or stick together. Until we know that the fallout it will be a mess. Covid forced politics into every facet of life for almost two years, it is impossible to ignore the impact it had on so many things. College football is no exception, but it is only a part of puzzle when it comes to the dissolution of the Pac. We ignored the imbalances of what the SoCal schools brought to our athletic alignment and it proved myopic and fatal. Larry Scott had no vision and no business being commissioner of a fantasy football league, but for some reason he was supported to the point that there was no reversing anything. It is hard to imagine a path through this right now that doesn't take us to places unimaginable just a few years ago. Cannot help but feel our rivalry games will soon be Boise St and Fresno St. It is unreal I don't blame Larry Scott at all. I blame the Presidents and ADs of the Pac 12 for their elitist arrogance in what was clearly obvious years ago. They truly believed college football needed the Pac 12. No it didnt...it just needed USC. Heck Oregon and Washington are an afterthought at this point. Two of the conferences best programs are getting the Studio 54 treatment at the main entrance. And they might have to wait outside in the rain for a while. Maybe Larry Scott was at the forefront of seeing where this was headed when he made the play for Texas and Oklahoma. Who knows what the real story is but IMO this is not on Larry Scott...Hindsight is 20/20.
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Post by jrbeavo on Jul 4, 2022 8:10:40 GMT -8
Cal is pretty screwed. I don’t see much path for them either Good point
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Post by jrbeavo on Jul 4, 2022 8:15:23 GMT -8
Covid forced politics into every facet of life for almost two years, it is impossible to ignore the impact it had on so many things. College football is no exception, but it is only a part of puzzle when it comes to the dissolution of the Pac. We ignored the imbalances of what the SoCal schools brought to our athletic alignment and it proved myopic and fatal. Larry Scott had no vision and no business being commissioner of a fantasy football league, but for some reason he was supported to the point that there was no reversing anything. It is hard to imagine a path through this right now that doesn't take us to places unimaginable just a few years ago. Cannot help but feel our rivalry games will soon be Boise St and Fresno St. It is unreal I don't blame Larry Scott at all. I blame the Presidents and ADs of the Pac 12 for their elitist arrogance in what was clearly obvious years ago. They truly believed college football needed the Pac 12. No they didnt...they just needed USC. Maybe Larry Scott was at the forefront of seeing where this was headed when he made the play for Texas and Oklahoma. Who knows what the real story is but this IMO is not on Larry Scott...Hindsight is 20 20 As I understand it, the real story was that the UT TV deal w ESPN was a non starter. I understand the responsibility that the AD's and Presidents have, but that is like excusing the horrific CEO because the board refused to rein them in or fire them. The CEO can still be held accountable. They were in his thrall and look where that got us. A visionary accepts imbalance for schools like Tx and Ok and USC, then prioritizes the value of the conference surviving over an even share of distribution regardless of the relative value.
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Jul 4, 2022 8:19:57 GMT -8
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jul 4, 2022 8:19:57 GMT -8
I don't blame Larry Scott at all. I blame the Presidents and ADs of the Pac 12 for their elitist arrogance in what was clearly obvious years ago. They truly believed college football needed the Pac 12. No they didnt...they just needed USC. Maybe Larry Scott was at the forefront of seeing where this was headed when he made the play for Texas and Oklahoma. Who knows what the real story is but this IMO is not on Larry Scott...Hindsight is 20 20 As I understand it, the real story was that the UT TV deal w ESPN was a non starter. I understand the responsibility that the AD's and Presidents have, but that is like excusing the horrific CEO because the board refused to reign them in or fire them. The CEO can still be held accountable. They were in his thrall and look where that got us. A visionary accepts imbalance for schools like Tx and Ok and USC, then prioritizes the value of the conference surviving over an even share of distribution regardless of the relative value. I'm confused how then it would be Larry Scott's fault when his bosses told him to pound sand. The CEO was the visionary...it was the board that overruled him that s%#t the bed.
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Post by jrbeavo on Jul 4, 2022 8:29:21 GMT -8
As I understand it, the real story was that the UT TV deal w ESPN was a non starter. I understand the responsibility that the AD's and Presidents have, but that is like excusing the horrific CEO because the board refused to reign them in or fire them. The CEO can still be held accountable. They were in his thrall and look where that got us. A visionary accepts imbalance for schools like Tx and Ok and USC, then prioritizes the value of the conference surviving over an even share of distribution regardless of the relative value. I'm confused how then it would be Larry Scott's fault when his bosses told him to pound sand. The CEO was the visionary...it was the board that overruled him that s%#t the bed. Essentially the argument that there is no need for a commissioner. Idealy, the AD's and Presidents hire an executive to look out for and advance the interests of the entity. At the very least, ensure its survival. They hire a commissioner because, presumably, that person is much more capable of navigating the complexities of the changing environment. If there was pushback (and frankly, we don't know which party issued the 'pound sand' dictate) it as up to Scott to convince them that they needed to do certain things to ensure not just prosperity, but survival. In that respect, he failed
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Post by TheGlove on Jul 4, 2022 8:39:25 GMT -8
Villain(s) 1a: University Presidents that hired and enabled; Villain(s) 1b: The conference CEOs the bungled the F out everything.
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Jul 4, 2022 9:02:35 GMT -8
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jul 4, 2022 9:02:35 GMT -8
Villain(s) 1a: University Presidents that hired and enabled; Villain(s) 1b: The conference CEOs the bungled the F out everything. Enabled or disabled?
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Post by TheGlove on Jul 4, 2022 9:40:40 GMT -8
Villain(s) 1a: University Presidents that hired and enabled; Villain(s) 1b: The conference CEOs the bungled the F out everything. Enabled or disabled? An unnecessary distinction IMHO
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Post by seastape on Jul 4, 2022 10:14:16 GMT -8
I don't know whether it was Larry Scott or the Presidents to blame, but the Pac 12 TV network and the utter failure to get it sold to some of the biggest carriers was a complete and utter failure. How could they not get a deal in the amount of time they had is completely beyond me. Did they let perfect be the enemy of good?
I wonder if USC, which is widely reported to have initiated the move to the Big 10, was disgusted with the amount of money they were losing not only because they had to share revenue with smaller programs but also because they were locked in a conference that did not have the ability to expand its revenue stream on par with the other Power 5 conferences that could. Larry Scott did a horrendous job in that department.
And so the Pac 12 hired a guy who perhaps showed the weaknesses that were evident in Larry Scott. Kliavkoff may have had the pedigree in the entertainment industry when he was hired, but is not necessarily a college football guy. I wonder if USC looked at him, saw that the Pac 12 was going to be stuck with the same problems they had before, and decided that now was the time to bail out.
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Jul 4, 2022 11:13:50 GMT -8
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 4, 2022 11:13:50 GMT -8
There's no real knowing what the next TV contract would bring. At the time this one was negotiated it was by far the largest ever in college sports, not even close. Perhaps the contract was just too long, but it was a blockbuster at the time.
With the new contract coming up soon, the 2 LA schools picked a bad time for the rest of the conference to leave.
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Post by mountainbeaver on Jul 4, 2022 12:03:43 GMT -8
You can blame all you want, but I’m not sure that football is that big of a deal on the west coast anymore. How many of our schools routinely sell out games? I’ve seen a lot of Pac12 games where the stands are half empty. Other than rivalry games, people will often find a lot of other ways to spend their weekend and money. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it is telling. And it certainly doesn’t help TV money that our games are late for the rest of the country.
I’m bummed to see teams dump a century of tradition for money and what will amount to an NFL travel schedule. But this is a game we were never going to win. My hope is that we can pick up 2-4 quality teams in good markets and make the best of it on the west coast, hopefully with most of the conference intact. Time will tell.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 4, 2022 13:41:52 GMT -8
I don't know whether it was Larry Scott or the Presidents to blame, but the Pac 12 TV network and the utter failure to get it sold to some of the biggest carriers was a complete and utter failure. How could they not get a deal in the amount of time they had is completely beyond me. Did they let perfect be the enemy of good? I wonder if USC, which is widely reported to have initiated the move to the Big 10, was disgusted with the amount of money they were losing not only because they had to share revenue with smaller programs but also because they were locked in a conference that did not have the ability to expand its revenue stream on par with the other Power 5 conferences that could. Larry Scott did a horrendous job in that department. And so the Pac 12 hired a guy who perhaps showed the weaknesses that were evident in Larry Scott. Kliavkoff may have had the pedigree in the entertainment industry when he was hired, but is not necessarily a college football guy. I wonder if USC looked at him, saw that the Pac 12 was going to be stuck with the same problems they had before, and decided that now was the time to bail out. From Jon Wilner: Scott’s decision to sign a 12-year contract with ESPN and Fox locked the conference into an agreement that has proved its undoing. With a shorter duration — say, eight or 10 years — the Pac-12 would have renegotiated its media rights before the Big Ten stepped to the table this spring, thereby locking USC and UCLA into an agreement. And just three years ago, Scott turned down an offer from ESPN to take over Pac-12 Networks distribution and forge a long-term partnership on Tier 1 rights. In that scenario, the L.A. schools also stay put. The campuses spent years suffering financially (relative to their peers) in hopes that Scott’s master plan would lead to a jackpot in 2024. The Pac-12 network was supposed to be a bonanza, and I think that the conference cleared something like $36 million in 2020 (the last financial year before the COVID-19 numbers). I think that the 2021 numbers were that the network lost something like $18 million. Larry Scott's real problem was that he swung for the fences but there was no great plan B. No Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech? Plan B is Utah. No DirecTV deal? Plan B is to have ESPN buy up the Pac-12 Network. That is not a terrible plan B, but Larry Scott screwed up and could not even get that done. With how COVID-19 played out, that would have been a genius strike on several levels. Instead, we are stuck wondering, what if.............
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Post by speakthetruth on Jul 4, 2022 13:48:16 GMT -8
Scott swung for the fences while maybe he hit a few singles and a double here and there for the team he only hit home runs for himself. Scott says a truly heart felt thank you to the pac12. Without us he couldn't have made what he made,
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 4, 2022 13:49:55 GMT -8
Only those with an ax to grind about the way Covid was handled by the politicians are the ones bringing that topic into the USC and UCLA leaving the Pac 12. Most people know that those two schools left for financial reasons wholly unrelated to the pandemic. TV contracts being #1, #2 and #3. In 2020 season Ohio St played 8 games, Michigan- 6. USC played 6, UCLA 7. There’s not a huge difference here. To say it’s impossible to leave Covid politics out of this discussion is a huge cop out. We have a no politics policy on Benny‘s house and some people continually inject politics into sports topics. Sometimes people need a 7 day break to get their heads on straight. I said it was only 'part' of it, and I maintain that is true. Political decisions affected college football within the last two years, seems tough to disentangle the two when discussing the very dire situation at hand. However, it is not in the top five reasons why we find ourselves here. If Zona's and Utah and Colorado leave, I struggle to find a path forward for us and Washington State. It is conceivable that after all of the radical realignment moves in the past several years, us and Wazoo will be the only Power 5 casualties I mean...........the BCS was six conferences. The Pac-12 needs to destroy the Big 12, because Oregon State is probably second-to-last in line at finding a soft landing, if it is the other way around. I still think that the Pac-12, especially with a four-year Rose Bowl contract is on better footing than the Big 12. We probably need to absorb at least five (and probably six) Big 12 teams to be able to legitimately kill the Big 12.
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