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Post by osulewdog on Nov 18, 2021 20:16:04 GMT -8
This group of players does not have the talent to do what they are attempting. Dribble dribble dribble, hope you can get open or hope somebody is open that you can pass to. No st plays or crisp passing. Very disappointing.
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Post by fishbeav on Nov 18, 2021 21:02:05 GMT -8
I spent to many years watching Ralph Miller teams. Pass and cut, pass, pass. You did not dribble and try shake and bake moves. First you would get his infamous scowl and then you would be so far down on the end of the bench people would need a program to know who you were.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Nov 18, 2021 21:17:02 GMT -8
I loved watching Miller's teams play, but the game has changed. If Ralph is watching the modern game he is probably rolling over in his grave.
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Post by rgeorge on Nov 19, 2021 0:07:20 GMT -8
I loved watching Miller's teams play, but the game has changed. If Ralph is watching the modern game he is probably rolling over in his grave. Actually the game hasn't changed, coaching has. Discipline, fundamentals, and consistent teamwork have eroded as coaches have slowly allowed showmanship and individual play become the focus. There are plenty of coaches who still focus on the major tenants of the game. While some loosen the reins with mixed results.
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 19, 2021 6:01:57 GMT -8
I loved watching Miller's teams play, but the game has changed. If Ralph is watching the modern game he is probably rolling over in his grave. Actually the game hasn't changed, coaching has. Discipline, fundamentals, and consistent teamwork have eroded as coaches have slowly allowed showmanship and individual play become the focus. There are plenty of coaches who still focus on the major tenants of the game. While some loosen the reins with mixed results. The game has changed dramatically. Way more emphasis on the 3 ball. Partly due to analytics. No more true centers. Defenses have also changed. Hedging on man to man defense wasn’t even a thing when Ralph coached. Ralph’s style would not work in today’s game. Plus, he would have been fired because he couldn’t win an NCAA tournament game. Since 1982 was vacated, he technically never won a game here. I can only imagine the message board bitching that would’ve occurred. Talk about mediocrity.
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Post by beaverbeliever71 on Nov 19, 2021 10:25:50 GMT -8
Actually the game hasn't changed, coaching has. Discipline, fundamentals, and consistent teamwork have eroded as coaches have slowly allowed showmanship and individual play become the focus. There are plenty of coaches who still focus on the major tenants of the game. While some loosen the reins with mixed results. The game has changed dramatically. Way more emphasis on the 3 ball. Partly due to analytics. No more true centers. Defenses have also changed. Hedging on man to man defense wasn’t even a thing when Ralph coached. Ralph’s style would not work in today’s game. Plus, he would have been fired because he couldn’t win an NCAA tournament game. Since 1982 was vacated, he technically never won a game here. I can only imagine the message board bitching that would’ve occurred. Talk about mediocrity. OSU made the Tournament in 1975 with Miller as coach.. won their first game
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 19, 2021 10:26:34 GMT -8
The game has changed dramatically. Way more emphasis on the 3 ball. Partly due to analytics. No more true centers. Defenses have also changed. Hedging on man to man defense wasn’t even a thing when Ralph coached. Ralph’s style would not work in today’s game. Plus, he would have been fired because he couldn’t win an NCAA tournament game. Since 1982 was vacated, he technically never won a game here. I can only imagine the message board bitching that would’ve occurred. Talk about mediocrity. OSU made the Tournament in 1975 with Miller as coach.. won their first game Yep. missed that. He went 1-2 that year.
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 19, 2021 10:34:46 GMT -8
The frustrating thing is that Tinkle is calling plays, but they're not always running them. I sit behind the bench and can hear him calling out the plays. This happened last night when he called a play and Jarod dribbled the ball straight up the court and jacked up a Lillard 30 footer. This led to Jarod getting yanked and getting his ass chewed. You would expect more discipline, especially from the guys that have been here a few years.
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Post by rgeorge on Nov 19, 2021 23:29:21 GMT -8
Actually the game hasn't changed, coaching has. Discipline, fundamentals, and consistent teamwork have eroded as coaches have slowly allowed showmanship and individual play become the focus. There are plenty of coaches who still focus on the major tenants of the game. While some loosen the reins with mixed results. The game has changed dramatically. Way more emphasis on the 3 ball. Partly due to analytics. No more true centers. Defenses have also changed. Hedging on man to man defense wasn’t even a thing when Ralph coached. Ralph’s style would not work in today’s game. Plus, he would have been fired because he couldn’t win an NCAA tournament game. Since 1982 was vacated, he technically never won a game here. I can only imagine the message board bitching that would’ve occurred. Talk about mediocrity. "Emphasis" is coaching not the game/skill set of basketball. "True centers" are a taught skill set, emphasized by coaching. Hedging, switching, sagging to the "wall" have been part of hoops well before RM's tenure at OSU. You have no clue if Ralph's "style" would work today. Coaches adjust and Ralph certainly did over the years. And, players adjusted to his style. And, "technically" he did win. Three teams were sent home with losses NCAA ruling or not. Comparing RM negatively to WT is a childlike endeavor. Unless of course you think WT will reach an overall record of 657–382 (.632), and his teams having losing records only three times in 38 seasons. Or that the UM HOF is equivalent to the Basketball and College Basketball HOF?
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Post by finleybandbeav on Nov 20, 2021 5:39:01 GMT -8
If you're talking about changes, don't forget the shot clock. No more lulling the opponent to sleep, like back when playing Pong on the slow setting.
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Post by alwaysorange on Nov 20, 2021 6:09:42 GMT -8
Yep you are absolutely correct no way could Ralph coach in today's world (sarcasm). In 1985 the shot clock was enacted (at the time 45 seconds) and in 1986 the three point line. The four years prior to retirement (1985, 1986,1987,1988) his record was 73-45. Two of those years the Beavs went to the NCAA tournament, one year to the NIT. Geez you are right no way could Ralph adjust (again sarcasm)
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 20, 2021 6:50:38 GMT -8
The game has changed dramatically. Way more emphasis on the 3 ball. Partly due to analytics. No more true centers. Defenses have also changed. Hedging on man to man defense wasn’t even a thing when Ralph coached. Ralph’s style would not work in today’s game. Plus, he would have been fired because he couldn’t win an NCAA tournament game. Since 1982 was vacated, he technically never won a game here. I can only imagine the message board bitching that would’ve occurred. Talk about mediocrity. "Emphasis" is coaching not the game/skill set of basketball. "True centers" are a taught skill set, emphasized by coaching. Hedging, switching, sagging to the "wall" have been part of hoops well before RM's tenure at OSU. You have no clue if Ralph's "style" would work today. Coaches adjust and Ralph certainly did over the years. And, players adjusted to his style. And, "technically" he did win. Three teams were sent home with losses NCAA ruling or not. Comparing RM negatively to WT is a childlike endeavor. Unless of course you think WT will reach an overall record of 657–382 (.632), and his teams having losing records only three times in 38 seasons. Or that the UM HOF is equivalent to the Basketball and College Basketball HOF? You missing the point. Maybe you should remove your batting helmet. The point was that in today’s environment, Ralph would have been fired even if you count ‘82. 3-9 in the tournament even if you count that year and boosters would have called for his head. I wasn’t comparing WT to RM. Just sick of people pining for Ralph’s days when all Ralph achieved in the tournament was mediocrity and a bunch of 1st game losses at the end of his career. Ralph’s style would have worked about as well as Bobby Knight’s at the end of his career. He would have a hard time getting today’s players to buy in. [b And I didn’t say anything about switching or sagging. The type of hard hedging used today was not taught until the early 90’s after RM was done. Feel free to return to being right all the time in your own mind.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 20, 2021 10:52:54 GMT -8
The game has changed dramatically. Way more emphasis on the 3 ball. Partly due to analytics. No more true centers. Defenses have also changed. Hedging on man to man defense wasn’t even a thing when Ralph coached. Ralph’s style would not work in today’s game. Plus, he would have been fired because he couldn’t win an NCAA tournament game. Since 1982 was vacated, he technically never won a game here. I can only imagine the message board bitching that would’ve occurred. Talk about mediocrity. "Emphasis" is coaching not the game/skill set of basketball. "True centers" are a taught skill set, emphasized by coaching. Hedging, switching, sagging to the "wall" have been part of hoops well before RM's tenure at OSU. You have no clue if Ralph's "style" would work today. Coaches adjust and Ralph certainly did over the years. And, players adjusted to his style. And, "technically" he did win. Three teams were sent home with losses NCAA ruling or not. Comparing RM negatively to WT is a childlike endeavor. Unless of course you think WT will reach an overall record of 657–382 (.632), and his teams having losing records only three times in 38 seasons. Or that the UM HOF is equivalent to the Basketball and College Basketball HOF? Ralph should not be compared negatively with Tinkle, but what Tinkle has accomplished shouldn't be dismissed either. You have to go back to 1920 to find an OSU head coach with a losing record before Ralph arrived. OSU was one of the winningest programs in the country. There were 5 straight coaches with losing records and only a couple winning seasons in the 24 years between Ralph and Wayne. I doubt Wayne will work another 23 years so the win total probably isn't doable. The only 3 losing seasons is doable, he's only had 1 here (which compared to the previous 5 coaches records is pretty significant) with 1 other at Montana. The career win percentage will be tough because of what he inherited here (he was at .640 at Montana), but a bunch of 20+ win seasons could get him close... not saying it'll happen, but I can't rule it out.
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Post by rgeorge on Nov 20, 2021 12:01:41 GMT -8
"Emphasis" is coaching not the game/skill set of basketball. "True centers" are a taught skill set, emphasized by coaching. Hedging, switching, sagging to the "wall" have been part of hoops well before RM's tenure at OSU. You have no clue if Ralph's "style" would work today. Coaches adjust and Ralph certainly did over the years. And, players adjusted to his style. And, "technically" he did win. Three teams were sent home with losses NCAA ruling or not. Comparing RM negatively to WT is a childlike endeavor. Unless of course you think WT will reach an overall record of 657–382 (.632), and his teams having losing records only three times in 38 seasons. Or that the UM HOF is equivalent to the Basketball and College Basketball HOF? You missing the point. Maybe you should remove your batting helmet. The point was that in today’s environment, Ralph would have been fired even if you count ‘82. 3-9 in the tournament even if you count that year and boosters would have called for his head. I wasn’t comparing WT to RM. Just sick of people pining for Ralph’s days when all Ralph achieved in the tournament was mediocrity and a bunch of 1st game losses at the end of his career. Ralph’s style would have worked about as well as Bobby Knight’s at the end of his career. He would have a hard time getting today’s players to buy in. [b And I didn’t say anything about switching or sagging. The type of hard hedging used today was not taught until the early 90’s after RM was done. Feel free to return to being right all the time in your own mind. No one was "pining"... you continually disparage RM by fabricating info. OSU hasn't been to the tourney since 1966. RM took over from Valenti who finished with 3 straight losing seasons. RM had one losing season, his first before returning OSU to the tourney in 1975. In 19 seasons his teams were top 3 in the Pac 15 seasons. His teams own 1/3 of all conference championships in OSU history. And his teams had 11 post season appearances, 8 NCAA's. Fired... yeah right. Your choosing to compare him to WT in anyway (you did) further shows who's helmet is too tight. PS- the "hard hedge" and a "pinch" hedge on high screens was taught when I was in HS mid 70's. Screen/roll/pop defense isn't new. Pretty easy to be "right" on that. Lol
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 20, 2021 12:09:44 GMT -8
You missing the point. Maybe you should remove your batting helmet. The point was that in today’s environment, Ralph would have been fired even if you count ‘82. 3-9 in the tournament even if you count that year and boosters would have called for his head. I wasn’t comparing WT to RM. Just sick of people pining for Ralph’s days when all Ralph achieved in the tournament was mediocrity and a bunch of 1st game losses at the end of his career. Ralph’s style would have worked about as well as Bobby Knight’s at the end of his career. He would have a hard time getting today’s players to buy in. [b And I didn’t say anything about switching or sagging. The type of hard hedging used today was not taught until the early 90’s after RM was done. Feel free to return to being right all the time in your own mind. No one was "pining"... you continually disparage RM by fabricating info. And choosing to compare him to WT further shows who's helmet is too tight. PS- the "hard hedge" and a "pinch" hedge on high screens was taught when I was in HS mid 70's. Screen/roll/pop defense isn't new. Pretty easy to be "right" on that. Lol Never compared RM to WT. And I didn’t fabricate anything. Keep trying. I think your confusing hedging with wedgy. I’m sure you got plenty of those back in the day.
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