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Post by irimi on Jul 17, 2021 9:34:30 GMT -8
Claunch improved toward the end of the season, but he certainly didn't realize his full potential. Or if he did, it's short of the mark. Your question at the end is a very good point. The rest were even more disappointing. Kyler McMahon, Preston Jones, Casey...quite a few really. A lot of guys should've been ready to step into the limelight and produce day in and day out. And they weren't. Now is that a development problem or a quality problem? Who knows? Claunch hit .370 in the Pac-12, third best in the Pac-12 and best among catchers! How did he fall short of the mark? Adley Rutschman only hit .342 against Pac-12 pitching in 2018 and .260 in 2017. Logan Ice hit .235 in 2016, .297 in 2015 and .267 in 2014. Jake Rodriguez hit .207 in 2013 and .270 in 2012. Andrew Susac hit .268 in 2011 and .291 in 2010. Outside of Adley's 2019 run, the last regular catcher to hit better was Ryan Ortiz back in 2009. How did Claunch fall short of the mark? Did Adley fall short in 2017 and 2018? Logan Ice? Jake Rodriguez? Andrew Susac? Unreal! Zero errors on the season. Unreal! Oregon State scored 28 runs at Fort Worth. Claunch scored three and drove in three, all while playing 18 innings behind the plate on the June 6th, which is un-freaking-believable. Claunch had a bad spell in early March but was nails otherwise. Freaking nails. You can go another decade a not see another season close to the season that Claunch put up in 2021. Even though he is in the portal, I am really hoping that he comes back in 2022, because, as great as 2021 was, I feel like 2022 could be even better. Compare Claunch to Logan Ice's final year. Ice finished with a slightly better BA and a much better slugging percentage. His walk to strikeout ratio was significantly better, as Ice walked more frequently than he struck out unlike Claunch. Claunch had a measly 7 extra base hits and 4 dingers, while Ice had 13 doubles, 5 triples, and 7 homers. With less playing time than Claunch. Claunch was good enough to get on base quite a bit, but Ice's OBP is 50 points higher. Sure, Claunch was a good catcher, but I wouldn't call him "Nails" by any stretch. And as one of the main players on the team, I expected him to perform at a higher level than what we saw. Just like I'm expecting the veterans to do next year.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 17, 2021 19:08:23 GMT -8
Claunch hit .370 in the Pac-12, third best in the Pac-12 and best among catchers! How did he fall short of the mark? Adley Rutschman only hit .342 against Pac-12 pitching in 2018 and .260 in 2017. Logan Ice hit .235 in 2016, .297 in 2015 and .267 in 2014. Jake Rodriguez hit .207 in 2013 and .270 in 2012. Andrew Susac hit .268 in 2011 and .291 in 2010. Outside of Adley's 2019 run, the last regular catcher to hit better was Ryan Ortiz back in 2009. How did Claunch fall short of the mark? Did Adley fall short in 2017 and 2018? Logan Ice? Jake Rodriguez? Andrew Susac? Unreal! Zero errors on the season. Unreal! Oregon State scored 28 runs at Fort Worth. Claunch scored three and drove in three, all while playing 18 innings behind the plate on the June 6th, which is un-freaking-believable. Claunch had a bad spell in early March but was nails otherwise. Freaking nails. You can go another decade a not see another season close to the season that Claunch put up in 2021. Even though he is in the portal, I am really hoping that he comes back in 2022, because, as great as 2021 was, I feel like 2022 could be even better. Zero errors? Do passed balls (of which there were many) not count as errors? 9 PBs. 3 in conference play. Jake Rodriguez had 13 in 2013 and 10 in 2012 in 38 starts at catcher. Rodriguez' backup, Ryan Gorton had 9 in 21 starts at catcher. Andrew Susac had 9 in 2010. Ryan Ortiz had 14 PBs in 2008. Mitchy Slick himself had 18 PBs in 2006 and 22 PBs in 2005. Defensively, we have been spoiled with Logan Ice and Rutschman from 2014-2019. Claunch's nine PBs led to four runs: BYU's first in game 2, which tied the game at one in the second inning. (Troy Claunch drove in the first run to put Oregon State up 1-0 in the first.) Oregon State won 5-3. Irvine's fourth in game 1, which put the Anteaters up 4-1 in the sixth. Oregon State came back to take a 5-4 lead into the ninth, but Mully blew the save. The Beavers ultimately won 7-5 in 11 innings. Arizona State's ninth in game 1, which put the Devils up 9-1 in the fourth. (Troy Claunch accounted for the sole run up until that time, on an RBI base hit to drive in Joe Casey in the top half of the fourth.) Arizona State ran it up to an 11-2 lead before Oregon State scored three to make it a more-respectable 11-5. McNeese State's fifth, which tied the game at five in the seventh. Oregon State scored five in the eighth to win 10-5. (Troy Claunch scored run number two to tie the game 2-2 in the fourth--before Kyle Dernedde's bases-clearing double. Claunch then scored run number six to put Oregon State up 6-5 in the eighth. Dernedde cleared the bases a second time two batters later.) The passed balls never led to a loss. (Unless that ninth run against Arizona State was the backbreaker?) And Claunch accounted for just as many runs in those four games as Oregon State allowed because of the passed balls.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 17, 2021 19:11:27 GMT -8
Makes it all the more disappointing that he’ll not be here. Still think it’s weird.
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Post by jayvinson on Jul 17, 2021 19:14:51 GMT -8
There are passed balls and then there are pitches not blocked that go in the books as a wp. A really good catcher will stop most of those.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jul 17, 2021 20:10:25 GMT -8
Troy is a nice guy who played reasonably well in his final year. He did not get drafted.
Jake Rodriguez played several years of affiliated baseball.
Andrew Susac has played in MLB and is still in AAA.
Ryan Ortiz made it to AAA.
Mitch Canham was a high draft pick and made it to triple A.
Logan Ice made it to AA.
Bryan Ingram played a year of affiliated baseball.
That tells me what I need to know about ranking our recent catchers.
Even Ryan Gorton had a brief career as a minor-league catcher. Your mileage may vary. No big deal.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 17, 2021 22:38:06 GMT -8
Claunch hit .370 in the Pac-12, third best in the Pac-12 and best among catchers! How did he fall short of the mark? Adley Rutschman only hit .342 against Pac-12 pitching in 2018 and .260 in 2017. Logan Ice hit .235 in 2016, .297 in 2015 and .267 in 2014. Jake Rodriguez hit .207 in 2013 and .270 in 2012. Andrew Susac hit .268 in 2011 and .291 in 2010. Outside of Adley's 2019 run, the last regular catcher to hit better was Ryan Ortiz back in 2009. How did Claunch fall short of the mark? Did Adley fall short in 2017 and 2018? Logan Ice? Jake Rodriguez? Andrew Susac? Unreal! Zero errors on the season. Unreal! Oregon State scored 28 runs at Fort Worth. Claunch scored three and drove in three, all while playing 18 innings behind the plate on the June 6th, which is un-freaking-believable. Claunch had a bad spell in early March but was nails otherwise. Freaking nails. You can go another decade a not see another season close to the season that Claunch put up in 2021. Even though he is in the portal, I am really hoping that he comes back in 2022, because, as great as 2021 was, I feel like 2022 could be even better. Compare Claunch to Logan Ice's final year. Ice finished with a slightly better BA and a much better slugging percentage. His walk to strikeout ratio was significantly better, as Ice walked more frequently than he struck out unlike Claunch. Claunch had a measly 7 extra base hits and 4 dingers, while Ice had 13 doubles, 5 triples, and 7 homers. With less playing time than Claunch. Claunch was good enough to get on base quite a bit, but Ice's OBP is 50 points higher. Sure, Claunch was a good catcher, but I wouldn't call him "Nails" by any stretch. And as one of the main players on the team, I expected him to perform at a higher level than what we saw. Just like I'm expecting the veterans to do next year. First, Claunch had 11 extra-base hits with four dingers. Second, Claunch actually played less than Ice in the regular season. The only reason that Claunch "played more" was because Oregon State went to the Fort Worth Regional. The 2016 Beavers were cheated out of the postseason. But, sure, let's compare. After 14 games (11 starts and came on in the 5th, 6th and 7th in three other games), Logan Ice was hitting .474 with 3 2Bs, 4 3Bs, 4 HRs, 7 BBs and 1 K. Over the next 40 games (38 starts and came on in the 4th and 7th in two other games), Logan Ice hit .256 with 10 2Bs, 1 3B, 3 HRs, 30 BBs and 24 Ks. After 14 games (13 starts), Troy Claunch was hitting .286 with 1 HR, 7 BBs and 11 Ks. Over the next 42 games (34 starts and came on in the 7th, 8th and 9th in three other games), Troy Claunch hit .333 with 7 2Bs, 3 HRs, 14 BBs and 25 Ks. After the first 14 warm-up games, Ice has a slugging percentage of .527 and Claunch has a slugging percentage of .526. Ice has an OBP of .396 and Claunch has an OBP of .396. If you filter out the 12 non-conference games after the first 14 in 2016, Ice winds up with a .235 batting average, 7 2Bs, 1 3B and 3 HRs, 25 BBs and 19 Ks. If you filter out the 14 non-conference games after the first 14 in 2021, Claunch winds up with a .370 batting average, 7 2Bs, 3 HRs, 11 BBs and 20 Ks. In conference, Claunch has a slugging percentage of .519, and Ice has a slugging percentage of .418. Claunch has an OBP of .430, and Ice has an OBP of .398. Claunch's OPS was .949 and Ice's 2016 OPS was .816. I believe that the difference is that Ice feasted on bad pitching at the beginning of 2016. Most people noted that Ice was an average D-1 hitter before 2016 and then his power numbers came out of nowhere. That led him to be talked about as a first-round-talent before better pitching cooled his crazy hot start. Baseball America and several other services had Ice as as surefire second-rounder, but he was pick #72, six picks away from slipping to the third round. The analytics guys liked Ice, because he was able to draw walks and rarely grounded out and rarely struck out. However, his 2016 power disappeared thereafter never to return. And his BB/K ratio disappeared. He was a .206 hitter in his four years in the minors, striking out more than twice as often as he walked. Great defense, but not enough offense to warrant him advancing beyond AA ball. Claunch was streaky but righted himself at the right time of year, finishing the regular season on a 17-game hitting streak: .431, 5 2Bs and 3 HRs. Ice finished the final 17 games of 2016: .238, 5 2Bs and 1 HR. Defensively, Ice is head and shoulders better than Claunch. Offensively, I will take Claunch's offensive numbers in 2021 over Ice's in 2016. Claunch feasted on great pitching (Arizona, Stanford, UCLA and USC). Ice withered.
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Post by irimi on Jul 18, 2021 7:57:01 GMT -8
Compare Claunch to Logan Ice's final year. Ice finished with a slightly better BA and a much better slugging percentage. His walk to strikeout ratio was significantly better, as Ice walked more frequently than he struck out unlike Claunch. Claunch had a measly 7 extra base hits and 4 dingers, while Ice had 13 doubles, 5 triples, and 7 homers. With less playing time than Claunch. Claunch was good enough to get on base quite a bit, but Ice's OBP is 50 points higher. Sure, Claunch was a good catcher, but I wouldn't call him "Nails" by any stretch. And as one of the main players on the team, I expected him to perform at a higher level than what we saw. Just like I'm expecting the veterans to do next year. First, Claunch had 11 extra-base hits with four dingers. Second, Claunch actually played less than Ice in the regular season. The only reason that Claunch "played more" was because Oregon State went to the Fort Worth Regional. The 2016 Beavers were cheated out of the postseason. But, sure, let's compare. After 14 games (11 starts and came on in the 5th, 6th and 7th in three other games), Logan Ice was hitting .474 with 3 2Bs, 4 3Bs, 4 HRs, 7 BBs and 1 K. Over the next 40 games (38 starts and came on in the 4th and 7th in two other games), Logan Ice hit .256 with 10 2Bs, 1 3B, 3 HRs, 30 BBs and 24 Ks. After 14 games (13 starts), Troy Claunch was hitting .286 with 1 HR, 7 BBs and 11 Ks. Over the next 42 games (34 starts and came on in the 7th, 8th and 9th in three other games), Troy Claunch hit .333 with 7 2Bs, 3 HRs, 14 BBs and 25 Ks. After the first 14 warm-up games, Ice has a slugging percentage of .527 and Claunch has a slugging percentage of .526. Ice has an OBP of .396 and Claunch has an OBP of .396. If you filter out the 12 non-conference games after the first 14 in 2016, Ice winds up with a .235 batting average, 7 2Bs, 1 3B and 3 HRs, 25 BBs and 19 Ks. If you filter out the 14 non-conference games after the first 14 in 2021, Claunch winds up with a .370 batting average, 7 2Bs, 3 HRs, 11 BBs and 20 Ks. In conference, Claunch has a slugging percentage of .519, and Ice has a slugging percentage of .418. Claunch has an OBP of .430, and Ice has an OBP of .398. Claunch's OPS was .949 and Ice's 2016 OPS was .816. I believe that the difference is that Ice feasted on bad pitching at the beginning of 2016. Most people noted that Ice was an average D-1 hitter before 2016 and then his power numbers came out of nowhere. That led him to be talked about as a first-round-talent before better pitching cooled his crazy hot start. Baseball America and several other services had Ice as as surefire second-rounder, but he was pick #72, six picks away from slipping to the third round. The analytics guys liked Ice, because he was able to draw walks and rarely grounded out and rarely struck out. However, his 2016 power disappeared thereafter never to return. And his BB/K ratio disappeared. He was a .206 hitter in his four years in the minors, striking out more than twice as often as he walked. Great defense, but not enough offense to warrant him advancing beyond AA ball. Claunch was streaky but righted himself at the right time of year, finishing the regular season on a 17-game hitting streak: .431, 5 2Bs and 3 HRs. Ice finished the final 17 games of 2016: .238, 5 2Bs and 1 HR. Defensively, Ice is head and shoulders better than Claunch. Offensively, I will take Claunch's offensive numbers in 2021 over Ice's in 2016. Claunch feasted on great pitching (Arizona, Stanford, UCLA and USC). Ice withered. You mean, 11 extra base hits, including 4 dingers. Not with. 7 doubles. 4 homers. Ice, written as you prefer it, had 25 extra base hits with 7 dingers. That's a big difference over the span of approximately the same number of games. As for the number of games, they are pretty equal, with a slight edge to Claunch turning into 29 extra plate appearances for him to be "nails." If "feasting" is getting a single or striking out, then I'm afraid I'll have to take a pass at your holiday celebrations. You see, you asked me why I felt the way I do about Claunch. I showed you. You are free to be his fan and sing his praises, and I am free to think he didn't quite live up to expectations. You don't have to try to win me over. That all being said, I would have no problem with him coming back for another year. He's a quality player who will continue to grow and learn.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 18, 2021 16:51:31 GMT -8
First, Claunch had 11 extra-base hits with four dingers. Second, Claunch actually played less than Ice in the regular season. The only reason that Claunch "played more" was because Oregon State went to the Fort Worth Regional. The 2016 Beavers were cheated out of the postseason. But, sure, let's compare. After 14 games (11 starts and came on in the 5th, 6th and 7th in three other games), Logan Ice was hitting .474 with 3 2Bs, 4 3Bs, 4 HRs, 7 BBs and 1 K. Over the next 40 games (38 starts and came on in the 4th and 7th in two other games), Logan Ice hit .256 with 10 2Bs, 1 3B, 3 HRs, 30 BBs and 24 Ks. After 14 games (13 starts), Troy Claunch was hitting .286 with 1 HR, 7 BBs and 11 Ks. Over the next 42 games (34 starts and came on in the 7th, 8th and 9th in three other games), Troy Claunch hit .333 with 7 2Bs, 3 HRs, 14 BBs and 25 Ks. After the first 14 warm-up games, Ice has a slugging percentage of .527 and Claunch has a slugging percentage of .526. Ice has an OBP of .396 and Claunch has an OBP of .396. If you filter out the 12 non-conference games after the first 14 in 2016, Ice winds up with a .235 batting average, 7 2Bs, 1 3B and 3 HRs, 25 BBs and 19 Ks. If you filter out the 14 non-conference games after the first 14 in 2021, Claunch winds up with a .370 batting average, 7 2Bs, 3 HRs, 11 BBs and 20 Ks. In conference, Claunch has a slugging percentage of .519, and Ice has a slugging percentage of .418. Claunch has an OBP of .430, and Ice has an OBP of .398. Claunch's OPS was .949 and Ice's 2016 OPS was .816. I believe that the difference is that Ice feasted on bad pitching at the beginning of 2016. Most people noted that Ice was an average D-1 hitter before 2016 and then his power numbers came out of nowhere. That led him to be talked about as a first-round-talent before better pitching cooled his crazy hot start. Baseball America and several other services had Ice as as surefire second-rounder, but he was pick #72, six picks away from slipping to the third round. The analytics guys liked Ice, because he was able to draw walks and rarely grounded out and rarely struck out. However, his 2016 power disappeared thereafter never to return. And his BB/K ratio disappeared. He was a .206 hitter in his four years in the minors, striking out more than twice as often as he walked. Great defense, but not enough offense to warrant him advancing beyond AA ball. Claunch was streaky but righted himself at the right time of year, finishing the regular season on a 17-game hitting streak: .431, 5 2Bs and 3 HRs. Ice finished the final 17 games of 2016: .238, 5 2Bs and 1 HR. Defensively, Ice is head and shoulders better than Claunch. Offensively, I will take Claunch's offensive numbers in 2021 over Ice's in 2016. Claunch feasted on great pitching (Arizona, Stanford, UCLA and USC). Ice withered. You mean, 11 extra base hits, including 4 dingers. Not with. 7 doubles. 4 homers. Ice, written as you prefer it, had 25 extra base hits with 7 dingers. That's a big difference over the span of approximately the same number of games. As for the number of games, they are pretty equal, with a slight edge to Claunch turning into 29 extra plate appearances for him to be "nails." If "feasting" is getting a single or striking out, then I'm afraid I'll have to take a pass at your holiday celebrations. You see, you asked me why I felt the way I do about Claunch. I showed you. You are free to be his fan and sing his praises, and I am free to think he didn't quite live up to expectations. You don't have to try to win me over. That all being said, I would have no problem with him coming back for another year. He's a quality player who will continue to grow and learn. I’m not sure Wilky even watches the games. He just looks at stats and pulls the ones that he likes to try and make his point. Watch the games and you will realize that Claunch is decent, but we’ve had a lot better catchers over the last several years. But, I will agree that Jake Rodriguez was not one of them.
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Post by zeroposter on Jul 18, 2021 17:28:23 GMT -8
I am still curious about the Claunch hand injury in the first game. I would grade his early season defense as being poor, but the improvement was amazing to me as the season reached the later stages. The offensive part was very much in Troy’s plan. He said in preseason interviews that he was concentrating on contact versus power. Just a single at key at bats for him was better than the previous seasons strikeouts in those key at bats.
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Post by giantkillers83 on Jul 18, 2021 17:41:03 GMT -8
You mean, 11 extra base hits, including 4 dingers. Not with. 7 doubles. 4 homers. Ice, written as you prefer it, had 25 extra base hits with 7 dingers. That's a big difference over the span of approximately the same number of games. As for the number of games, they are pretty equal, with a slight edge to Claunch turning into 29 extra plate appearances for him to be "nails." If "feasting" is getting a single or striking out, then I'm afraid I'll have to take a pass at your holiday celebrations. You see, you asked me why I felt the way I do about Claunch. I showed you. You are free to be his fan and sing his praises, and I am free to think he didn't quite live up to expectations. You don't have to try to win me over. That all being said, I would have no problem with him coming back for another year. He's a quality player who will continue to grow and learn. I’m not sure Wilky even watches the games. He just looks at stats and pulls the ones that he likes to try and make his point. Watch the games and you will realize that Claunch is decent, but we’ve had a lot better catchers over the last several years. But, I will agree that Jake Rodriguez was not one of them. Dude seems to have a lot of free time…..
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Post by irimi on Jul 18, 2021 21:10:59 GMT -8
I am still curious about the Claunch hand injury in the first game. I would grade his early season defense as being poor, but the improvement was amazing to me as the season reached the later stages. The offensive part was very much in Troy’s plan. He said in preseason interviews that he was concentrating on contact versus power. Just a single at key at bats for him was better than the previous seasons strikeouts in those key at bats. Yeah, but focusing on contact instead of power maybe shouldn't be the focus of the team's 4th/5th/6th batter. So either Claunch had the wrong philosophy or Coach should've had him bat second (that would've been interesting).
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 19, 2021 13:36:13 GMT -8
You mean, 11 extra base hits, including 4 dingers. Not with. 7 doubles. 4 homers. Ice, written as you prefer it, had 25 extra base hits with 7 dingers. That's a big difference over the span of approximately the same number of games. As for the number of games, they are pretty equal, with a slight edge to Claunch turning into 29 extra plate appearances for him to be "nails." If "feasting" is getting a single or striking out, then I'm afraid I'll have to take a pass at your holiday celebrations. You see, you asked me why I felt the way I do about Claunch. I showed you. You are free to be his fan and sing his praises, and I am free to think he didn't quite live up to expectations. You don't have to try to win me over. That all being said, I would have no problem with him coming back for another year. He's a quality player who will continue to grow and learn. I’m not sure Wilky even watches the games. He just looks at stats and pulls the ones that he likes to try and make his point. Watch the games and you will realize that Claunch is decent, but we’ve had a lot better catchers over the last several years. But, I will agree that Jake Rodriguez was not one of them. Nope. I never watch the games; it ruins the statistics. I have seen Claunch play. I saw Adley play. I saw Ice play. I saw JRod play. I saw Susac play. I saw Canham play. Hell, I saw Ammon play. Defensively, I would rate him behind Adley, Ice and Susac but those are the only three that really stand out defensively. Offensively, look at the Fort Worth Regional. Kyle Dernedde and Ryan Ober went off, but Claunch scored three runs and drove in another three, having a hand in more than 20% of the runs scored in the five games. Adley was clearly better both defensively and offensively than Claunch. Offensively, Oregon State did not go to a Regional in 2016. Ice only played games 1 and 3 at the Dallas Regional in 2015. Ice played all five games in 2014, scoring two runs and driving in one. Gorton and JRod split time in 2012 and 2013, but neither put up anything approaching Claunch's numbers. Ice, to me, was clearly a better defensive catcher than Claunch. However, Claunch, to me, was better able to produce offensively in conference and in the postseason than Ice, and, this year, I would argue that the delta in offense more than makes up for whatever deficiencies Claunch had defensively. In my mind, outside of Adley, Claunch is the best catcher that Oregon State has had since Susac in 2011. The whole ragging on Claunch all year long was annoying and the continued bagging now that the season is over continues to annoy me.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 19, 2021 13:49:48 GMT -8
I am still curious about the Claunch hand injury in the first game. I would grade his early season defense as being poor, but the improvement was amazing to me as the season reached the later stages. The offensive part was very much in Troy’s plan. He said in preseason interviews that he was concentrating on contact versus power. Just a single at key at bats for him was better than the previous seasons strikeouts in those key at bats. Yeah, but focusing on contact instead of power maybe shouldn't be the focus of the team's 4th/5th/6th batter. So either Claunch had the wrong philosophy or Coach should've had him bat second (that would've been interesting). Claunch hit third the final six games, which is right where sabermetrics would put him. The other spots in the lineup were a little more suspect.
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