|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Jun 8, 2021 11:22:59 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 8, 2021 17:08:58 GMT -8
I get changing the second verse. But, in all seriousness, why do the first four lines of the first verse have to change? Land of the Empire Builders, Land of the Golden West; Conquered and held by free men, Fairest and the best. Apparently, Oregon is now grand but not fair. Neither seems accurate, really. Plus, "grandest" is awkward. Hot take: patently stupid. |
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Jun 8, 2021 17:21:02 GMT -8
I get changing the second verse. But, in all seriousness, why do the first four lines of the first verse have to change? Land of the Empire Builders, Land of the Golden West; Conquered and held by free men, Fairest and the best. Apparently, Oregon is now grand but not fair. Neither seems accurate, really. Plus, "grandest" is awkward. Hot take: patently stupid. Given that I haven't sung or heard our state song sung in about 50 years, no skin off my nose. |
|
|
|
Post by spudbeaver on Jun 8, 2021 19:17:15 GMT -8
I get changing the second verse. But, in all seriousness, why do the first four lines of the first verse have to change? Land of the Empire Builders, Land of the Golden West; Conquered and held by free men, Fairest and the best. Apparently, Oregon is now grand but not fair. Neither seems accurate, really. Plus, "grandest" is awkward. Hot take: patently stupid. Given that I haven't sung or heard our state song sung in about 50 years, no skin off my nose. Then why on earth did you start a thread about it? |
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Jun 8, 2021 21:15:21 GMT -8
Given that I haven't sung or heard our state song sung in about 50 years, no skin off my nose. Then why on earth did you start a thread about it? Why not? |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 8, 2021 21:37:15 GMT -8
I get changing the second verse. But, in all seriousness, why do the first four lines of the first verse have to change? Land of the Empire Builders, Land of the Golden West; Conquered and held by free men, Fairest and the best. Apparently, Oregon is now grand but not fair. Neither seems accurate, really. Plus, "grandest" is awkward. Hot take: patently stupid. Given that I haven't sung or heard our state song sung in about 50 years, no skin off my nose. Write-up on John Andrew Buchanan, the dude who wrote Oregon My Oregon. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 8, 2021 21:39:27 GMT -8
Then why on earth did you start a thread about it? Why not? |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Jun 9, 2021 6:43:34 GMT -8
I get changing the second verse. But, in all seriousness, why do the first four lines of the first verse have to change? Land of the Empire Builders, Land of the Golden West; Conquered and held by free men, Fairest and the best. Apparently, Oregon is now grand but not fair. Neither seems accurate, really. Plus, "grandest" is awkward. Hot take: patently stupid. My guess is that stating that free men are the fairest and the best can be read as a nod toward White supremacy. And given the racist history of Oregon, it’s likely to have meant just that. I’m surprised it wasn’t changed long ago. |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Jun 9, 2021 6:44:49 GMT -8
uo seems like it needs some work Oregon our alma matter, Were the men of steel are found, In the bushes, With their right hands, Jacking off upon the ground. This goes on 'til early moring, When they all lap up the ***. They'll be a high protien breakfast, for the sons of Oregon Oregon, our alma mater Where the men of iron are found In the bushes with the coeds Making love upon the ground This goes on 'til early morning When the cops break up the fun There'll be a military wedding For the sons of Oregon Seems about right to me. Lol |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 9, 2021 13:27:37 GMT -8
I get changing the second verse. But, in all seriousness, why do the first four lines of the first verse have to change? Land of the Empire Builders, Land of the Golden West; Conquered and held by free men, Fairest and the best. Apparently, Oregon is now grand but not fair. Neither seems accurate, really. Plus, "grandest" is awkward. Hot take: patently stupid. My guess is that stating that free men are the fairest and the best can be read as a nod toward White supremacy. And given the racist history of Oregon, it’s likely to have meant just that. I’m surprised it wasn’t changed long ago. I failed to link to John Andrew Buchanan, which was about the lawyer/judge/politician/poet, who wrote the lyrics to Oregon, My Oregon. Here is the link. Oh, so you're saying that "Fairest and the best" refers back to "free men" rather than "land." Whoa! I hadn't read it that way! I don't think that is what it means, though. Why is "free men" a nod toward white supremacy, though? |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Jun 9, 2021 14:06:13 GMT -8
My guess is that stating that free men are the fairest and the best can be read as a nod toward White supremacy. And given the racist history of Oregon, it’s likely to have meant just that. I’m surprised it wasn’t changed long ago. I failed to link to John Andrew Buchanan, which was about the lawyer/judge/politician/poet, who wrote the lyrics to Oregon, My Oregon. Here is the link. Oh, so you're saying that "Fairest and the best" refers back to "free men" rather than "land." Whoa! I hadn't read it that way! I don't think that is what it means, though. Why is "free men" a nod toward white supremacy, though? I agree with you that I don't think that's what the author meant either, but given that the lines are ambiguous, it can be read that way. That's the problem. It's a legitimate reading of the text the writer authored. Ambiguous. So if you take a moment and look at the alternative (but completely defensible) reading of the lines, then you have to ask some questions. First, if Oregon was founded by "free men" then who are the not free men? If these Oregon "free men" are the "fairest" and the "best," then what about the not free men? Are they ugly? Are they not good? Is this because they are not free? |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 15, 2021 13:49:59 GMT -8
I failed to link to John Andrew Buchanan, which was about the lawyer/judge/politician/poet, who wrote the lyrics to Oregon, My Oregon. Here is the link. Oh, so you're saying that "Fairest and the best" refers back to "free men" rather than "land." Whoa! I hadn't read it that way! I don't think that is what it means, though. Why is "free men" a nod toward white supremacy, though? I agree with you that I don't think that's what the author meant either, but given that the lines are ambiguous, it can be read that way. That's the problem. It's a legitimate reading of the text the writer authored. Ambiguous. So if you take a moment and look at the alternative (but completely defensible) reading of the lines, then you have to ask some questions. First, if Oregon was founded by "free men" then who are the not free men? If these Oregon "free men" are the "fairest" and the "best," then what about the not free men? Are they ugly? Are they not good? Is this because they are not free? "Free men," historically, are those who enjoy personal, civil and political liberty. To say that we are free men means that we are fellow citizens of a democracy and/or democratic republic. The idea that free men implies anything about race, though, is simply preposterous. That is like saying New Hampshire's "Live free or die" is somehow racist. It's not. If there were something concrete in the specific history of the poem, which forms the basis of the song, then I can see the need for change. To try and inject a meaning that a learned individual would never arrive at is just silly. |
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Jun 15, 2021 14:36:14 GMT -8
I failed to link to John Andrew Buchanan, which was about the lawyer/judge/politician/poet, who wrote the lyrics to Oregon, My Oregon. Here is the link. Oh, so you're saying that "Fairest and the best" refers back to "free men" rather than "land." Whoa! I hadn't read it that way! I don't think that is what it means, though. Why is "free men" a nod toward white supremacy, though? I agree with you that I don't think that's what the author meant either, but given that the lines are ambiguous, it can be read that way. That's the problem. It's a legitimate reading of the text the writer authored. Ambiguous. So if you take a moment and look at the alternative (but completely defensible) reading of the lines, then you have to ask some questions. First, if Oregon was founded by "free men" then who are the not free men? If these Oregon "free men" are the "fairest" and the "best," then what about the not free men? Are they ugly? Are they not good? Is this because they are not free?  |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Jun 15, 2021 16:03:09 GMT -8
I agree with you that I don't think that's what the author meant either, but given that the lines are ambiguous, it can be read that way. That's the problem. It's a legitimate reading of the text the writer authored. Ambiguous. So if you take a moment and look at the alternative (but completely defensible) reading of the lines, then you have to ask some questions. First, if Oregon was founded by "free men" then who are the not free men? If these Oregon "free men" are the "fairest" and the "best," then what about the not free men? Are they ugly? Are they not good? Is this because they are not free? Took me a second. |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Jun 15, 2021 16:05:05 GMT -8
I agree with you that I don't think that's what the author meant either, but given that the lines are ambiguous, it can be read that way. That's the problem. It's a legitimate reading of the text the writer authored. Ambiguous. So if you take a moment and look at the alternative (but completely defensible) reading of the lines, then you have to ask some questions. First, if Oregon was founded by "free men" then who are the not free men? If these Oregon "free men" are the "fairest" and the "best," then what about the not free men? Are they ugly? Are they not good? Is this because they are not free? "Free men," historically, are those who enjoy personal, civil and political liberty. To say that we are free men means that we are fellow citizens of a democracy and/or democratic republic. The idea that free men implies anything about race, though, is simply preposterous. That is like saying New Hampshire's "Live free or die" is somehow racist. It's not. If there were something concrete in the specific history of the poem, which forms the basis of the song, then I can see the need for change. To try and inject a meaning that a learned individual would never arrive at is just silly. Didn’t think you’d ever defend ambiguity. TIL |
|
