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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on May 13, 2021 17:23:10 GMT -8
Oregon is either French, Native American or Spanish or a mixture of the three. Due to its vague and ambiguous etymology, the state's name is a very safe one.
I think that Corvallis should start worrying about naming things after Lane County is renamed. Until then, all of this is comical. For those that don't know, General Joseph Lane was the first Governor of Oregon Territory and was one of Oregon's first two Senators. In 1860, he ran with John C. Breckinridge on the pro-slavery Southern Democrat ticket against Lincoln. After Andrew Johnson gave a speech in the Senate against succession, Lane accused Johnson of selling "his birthright" as a Southerner. Lane was sympathetic to the South but did not fight, instead retiring to his ranch 11 miles east of Roseburg. Lane was accused of illegally keeping at least one slave on his ranch until possibly 1878. Joseph's son, John, fought for the Confederacy. The other Lanes (Joseph had 10 children, including John) were a mixed bag. I was talking about the racist laws that the state was founded on (those could scar the name Oregon). Black exclusion laws...not allowing blacks to own property, etc.. We also had additional annual taxes on all non-white Oregonians and blacks and Chinese were banned from voting in the state. The Oregon Territorial Legislature enacted a "negro or mulatto" exclusion law on September 21, 1849. Only one person was expelled, a man named Jacob Vanderpool in 1851. A man named Theophilus Magruder, who owned a hotel in Oregon City, sued Vanderpool, who also owned a hotel in Oregon City. At least three other people were cited but allowed to stay, despite the law. Although it was rarely enforced, some black people left the state. The law was rescinded in 1854. In 1850, there were 54 black people and an additional 153 Hawaiians or mixed ancestry Native Americans. In 1853, two separate Courts ruled that slavery was illegal in Oregon. The people of the Territory of Oregon voted for an exclusion clause on November 7, 1857, to appear in the Oregon Constitution. The exclusion law prohibited blacks from moving to the state, owning property and voting. Because of the popular vote, it was incorporated into the Constitution. However, the Oregon State Legislature never passed an enforcement act, so that portion of the Constitution was never enforced. Despite the law, 128 African-Americans lived in the State of Oregon on April 1, 1860, the date of the first Oregon State census. It was officially repealed by the 14th Amendment on September 19, 1866. It remained unenforced until 1926, when that portion of the Oregon State Constitution was officially repealed by the voters. The 1862 $5 tax on "every negro, Chinaman, kanaka (Hawaiian) and mulatto" was repealed as to blacks on December 8, 1865 or September 19, 1866. On September 19, 1866, the exclusion law, which prohibited blacks from voting, was also repealed. "Chinamen" were denied the right to vote in the November 7, 1857 Oregon exclusion clause. It appears that that law was on the books until 1943. |
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Post by ag87 on May 13, 2021 17:24:34 GMT -8
Most of the people back then were either racist, unkind to Native Americans, or in some way offensive to today's standards. It has been proposed to rename all of the streets named after Presidents in Corvallis. Also, Benton County. They should also rename Oregon, since it was founded with racist laws.........it could go on forever. It seems everything going forward should be named after trees or rocks or something that won't cause future generations to become offended. Oregon is either French, Native American or Spanish or a mixture of the three. Due to its vague and ambiguous etymology, the state's name is a very safe one. I think that Corvallis should start worrying about naming things after Lane County is renamed. Until then, all of this is comical. For those that don't know, General Joseph Lane was the first Governor of Oregon Territory and was one of Oregon's first two Senators. In 1860, he ran with John C. Breckinridge on the pro-slavery Southern Democrat ticket against Lincoln. After Andrew Johnson gave a speech in the Senate against succession, Lane accused Johnson of selling "his birthright" as a Southerner. Lane was sympathetic to the South but did not fight, instead retiring to his ranch 11 miles east of Roseburg. Lane was accused of illegally keeping at least one slave on his ranch until possibly 1878. Joseph's son, John, fought for the Confederacy. The other Lanes (Joseph had 10 children, including John) were a mixed bag. Old Jo Lane. Our arch rivals in junior high. Maybe they will change that name. Except my junior high was named after John Fremont and he probably was a horse's a too. I like the Mexican city, Puebla. When I was there I learned Lane's history in Mexico. It's worth reading about. |
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Post by spudbeaver on May 13, 2021 19:08:06 GMT -8
But really, is change so difficult? Is it better to preserve tradition at the cost to some who are offended than to move forward and learn from the past? Take the Washington Redskins football team. Clearly offensive. Clearly many years of tradition. Is it so difficult to say to those who are offended that we hear them and that we want them to feel included in this society rather than used as symbol by those who ravaged their lands and destroyed their way of life? I guess the question we have to answer is what does it say about us when we hear others cry out and we choose to do nothing. And if we decide to name a school/street/building/park after Dr. Seuss (or whomever) only to find out twenty years from now that he was a misogynistic, slave holder, evil man, then I hope we have the fortitude and wisdom to choose a new name. It's just a name. It isn't the thing itself. I would think that 2021 conservatives would be all for removing Woodrow Wilson's name from public schools. He is after all the guy who instituted the modern income tax; got us into WW1 and tried to get us into the League of Nations; founded the Federal Reserve system; established the Federal Trade Commission and signed anti-trust legislation that broke up business monopolies. Sorta begs the question of what in the world do 2021 conservatives agree with Wilson about? Hmmm. Maybe because many of us aren’t bitterly partisan, and could comprehend that no political figure is going to have everyone agree with their policy, but acknowledge that they were the President of the United States, which is a great and respected accomplishment. Just spitballing here. |
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Post by irimi on May 13, 2021 20:44:52 GMT -8
But really, is change so difficult? Is it better to preserve tradition at the cost to some who are offended than to move forward and learn from the past? Take the Washington Redskins football team. Clearly offensive. Clearly many years of tradition. Is it so difficult to say to those who are offended that we hear them and that we want them to feel included in this society rather than used as symbol by those who ravaged their lands and destroyed their way of life? I guess the question we have to answer is what does it say about us when we hear others cry out and we choose to do nothing. And if we decide to name a school/street/building/park after Dr. Seuss (or whomever) only to find out twenty years from now that he was a misogynistic, slave holder, evil man, then I hope we have the fortitude and wisdom to choose a new name. It's just a name. It isn't the thing itself. My problem is that everyone is offended about something right now. It's not a matter of making them feel included in society, it's them going out of there way to find something that offends them. I agree with the Redskins changing their name...some of name changes are obvious. I just think some of them are stretches to say that you are offended by them. San Francisco is talking about changing a school named after Lincoln.......because even though he helped with ending slavery, he did bad stuff before that. Yet everyone wants to name everything after MLK and ignore the numerous affairs he had and the other alleged incidents (even crimes) that he may have witnessed. And no one is naming anything after Dr. Suess. He has already been deemed a racist. My high school mascot is the Cavemen. I'm just waiting for unfrozen caveman lawyer to sue my former high school. My point is that if our society is going to be that way, maybe we stop naming stuff after people or types of people.......stick with rocks, trees, numbers and free range, uncaged dirt. I agree with you somewhat. I remember when I first started hearing about Columbus being a bastard. Somehow I knew that I had lost that simple belief forever and that there would be no going back. It’s like a loss of innocence or childhood. Columbus wasn’t a hero. It’s hard to lose that hero, it’s hard to realize that, yeah, the cowboys weren’t always the good guys and the Indians weren’t always the bad guys. It’s hard to watch those old John Wayne movies now, but I still divulge. I agree that some are legitimate and some are murkier. For example, is “Indians” ok, like in the Cleveland Indians? I don’t know, but I think their mascot is offensive. Is the Civil War offensive? I don’t really know the answer to that either, so I’d really like to hear from those who find it offensive. I don’t think we have to name our schools and sports teams after rocks, but we do have to be open to change and we have to be able to listen |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on May 13, 2021 22:24:03 GMT -8
My problem is that everyone is offended about something right now. It's not a matter of making them feel included in society, it's them going out of there way to find something that offends them. I agree with the Redskins changing their name...some of name changes are obvious. I just think some of them are stretches to say that you are offended by them. San Francisco is talking about changing a school named after Lincoln.......because even though he helped with ending slavery, he did bad stuff before that. Yet everyone wants to name everything after MLK and ignore the numerous affairs he had and the other alleged incidents (even crimes) that he may have witnessed. And no one is naming anything after Dr. Suess. He has already been deemed a racist. My high school mascot is the Cavemen. I'm just waiting for unfrozen caveman lawyer to sue my former high school. My point is that if our society is going to be that way, maybe we stop naming stuff after people or types of people.......stick with rocks, trees, numbers and free range, uncaged dirt. I agree with you somewhat. I remember when I first started hearing about Columbus being a bastard. Somehow I knew that I had lost that simple belief forever and that there would be no going back. It’s like a loss of innocence or childhood. Columbus wasn’t a hero. It’s hard to lose that hero, it’s hard to realize that, yeah, the cowboys weren’t always the good guys and the Indians weren’t always the bad guys. It’s hard to watch those old John Wayne movies now, but I still divulge. I agree that some are legitimate and some are murkier. For example, is “Indians” ok, like in the Cleveland Indians? I don’t know, but I think their mascot is offensive. Is the Civil War offensive? I don’t really know the answer to that either, so I’d really like to hear from those who find it offensive. I don’t think we have to name our schools and sports teams after rocks, but we do have to be open to change and we have to be able to listen Columbus isn't even the dude's name! It is the Latinized version of his last name. Christopher is an Anglicized version of his first name. The bigoted use of Cristoffa Corombo's fake name to denigrate the guy is not a great start. Cristoffa Corombo portrayed as a bastard is mostly bigoted Black Legend nonsense that has been a staple of KKK propaganda since the late 1870s. It has been used as a pretext to denigrate and dehumanize the Spanish, Hispanics, Italians and Catholics in this and other nations for generations. What did Corombo personally do that makes him a bastard? Not what was he accused of by people that stood to benefit by the accusations being true. Not what did he do that people who personally disliked Corombo. Not what did people who talked to him once did. And not what did people do who came after Corombo. What did Corombo personally do that makes him a bastard? The American Civil War is not offensive. It surely can be used in offensive ways. And you can be offended that it was ever fought. However, trying to be offended about something that is called something similar for an entirely different reason is repugnant. And to kowtow to the uneducated that fail to appreciate facts (no matter how nuanced) but instead are offended on unenlightened false assumptions is vexatiously stupid. There are three complete and abject failures there. First, there is a failure of one individual, who has failed to properly educate himself or herself. Second, there is a failure of a second to have any semblance of a central nervous system, including a brain and a spine, in response to the uneducated. And third, there is a failure of a third to both fail to enlighten the uneducated and to allow the brainless and spineless to make decisions. We should listen, and we should be open to change. However, we must base our decisions on facts and not feelings or faulty inferences. That is the opposite of progress, that is allowing this country to degenerate into an Idiocracy. |
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Post by Werebeaver on May 14, 2021 5:42:15 GMT -8
I agree with you somewhat. I remember when I first started hearing about Columbus being a bastard. Somehow I knew that I had lost that simple belief forever and that there would be no going back. It’s like a loss of innocence or childhood. Columbus wasn’t a hero. It’s hard to lose that hero, it’s hard to realize that, yeah, the cowboys weren’t always the good guys and the Indians weren’t always the bad guys. It’s hard to watch those old John Wayne movies now, but I still divulge. I agree that some are legitimate and some are murkier. For example, is “Indians” ok, like in the Cleveland Indians? I don’t know, but I think their mascot is offensive. Is the Civil War offensive? I don’t really know the answer to that either, so I’d really like to hear from those who find it offensive. I don’t think we have to name our schools and sports teams after rocks, but we do have to be open to change and we have to be able to listen Columbus isn't even the dude's name! It is the Latinized version of his last name. Christopher is an Anglicized version of his first name. The bigoted use of Cristoffa Corombo's fake name to denigrate the guy is not a great start. Cristoffa Corombo portrayed as a bastard is mostly bigoted Black Legend nonsense that has been a staple of KKK propaganda since the late 1870s. It has been used as a pretext to denigrate and dehumanize the Spanish, Hispanics, Italians and Catholics in this and other nations for generations. What did Corombo personally do that makes him a bastard? Not what was he accused of by people that stood to benefit by the accusations being true. Not what did he do that people who personally disliked Corombo. Not what did people who talked to him once did. And not what did people do who came after Corombo. What did Corombo personally do that makes him a bastard? The American Civil War is not offensive. It surely can be used in offensive ways. And you can be offended that it was ever fought. However, trying to be offended about something that is called something similar for an entirely different reason is repugnant. And to kowtow to the uneducated that fail to appreciate facts (no matter how nuanced) but instead are offended on unenlightened false assumptions is vexatiously stupid. There are three complete and abject failures there. First, there is a failure of one individual, who has failed to properly educate himself or herself. Second, there is a failure of a second to have any semblance of a central nervous system, including a brain and a spine, in response to the uneducated. And third, there is a failure of a third to both fail to enlighten the uneducated and to allow the brainless and spineless to make decisions. We should listen, and we should be open to change. However, we must base our decisions on facts and not feelings or faulty inferences. That is the opposite of progress, that is allowing this country to degenerate into an Idiocracy. Wow, way to demonize any and all who disagree with you. Congratulations on that elaborate love letter to yourself. A little late for Valentine’s Day. |
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Post by beavs6 on May 14, 2021 6:24:31 GMT -8
Columbus isn't even the dude's name! It is the Latinized version of his last name. Christopher is an Anglicized version of his first name. The bigoted use of Cristoffa Corombo's fake name to denigrate the guy is not a great start. Cristoffa Corombo portrayed as a bastard is mostly bigoted Black Legend nonsense that has been a staple of KKK propaganda since the late 1870s. It has been used as a pretext to denigrate and dehumanize the Spanish, Hispanics, Italians and Catholics in this and other nations for generations. What did Corombo personally do that makes him a bastard? Not what was he accused of by people that stood to benefit by the accusations being true. Not what did he do that people who personally disliked Corombo. Not what did people who talked to him once did. And not what did people do who came after Corombo. What did Corombo personally do that makes him a bastard? The American Civil War is not offensive. It surely can be used in offensive ways. And you can be offended that it was ever fought. However, trying to be offended about something that is called something similar for an entirely different reason is repugnant. And to kowtow to the uneducated that fail to appreciate facts (no matter how nuanced) but instead are offended on unenlightened false assumptions is vexatiously stupid. There are three complete and abject failures there. First, there is a failure of one individual, who has failed to properly educate himself or herself. Second, there is a failure of a second to have any semblance of a central nervous system, including a brain and a spine, in response to the uneducated. And third, there is a failure of a third to both fail to enlighten the uneducated and to allow the brainless and spineless to make decisions. We should listen, and we should be open to change. However, we must base our decisions on facts and not feelings or faulty inferences. That is the opposite of progress, that is allowing this country to degenerate into an Idiocracy. Wow, way to demonize any and all who disagree with you. Congratulations on that elaborate love letter to yourself. A little late for Valentine’s Day. Maybe he is tired of hearing "Be open and listen to others" from people that have no interest in being open and listening. I'm not saying that differing views and open conversation isn't productive. Conversation is a 2 way street that some don't understand. Happy love fest day to you too.😘 |
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Post by irimi on May 14, 2021 7:04:17 GMT -8
I agree with you somewhat. I remember when I first started hearing about Columbus being a bastard. Somehow I knew that I had lost that simple belief forever and that there would be no going back. It’s like a loss of innocence or childhood. Columbus wasn’t a hero. It’s hard to lose that hero, it’s hard to realize that, yeah, the cowboys weren’t always the good guys and the Indians weren’t always the bad guys. It’s hard to watch those old John Wayne movies now, but I still divulge. I agree that some are legitimate and some are murkier. For example, is “Indians” ok, like in the Cleveland Indians? I don’t know, but I think their mascot is offensive. Is the Civil War offensive? I don’t really know the answer to that either, so I’d really like to hear from those who find it offensive. I don’t think we have to name our schools and sports teams after rocks, but we do have to be open to change and we have to be able to listen Columbus isn't even the dude's name! It is the Latinized version of his last name. Christopher is an Anglicized version of his first name. The bigoted use of Cristoffa Corombo's fake name to denigrate the guy is not a great start. Cristoffa Corombo portrayed as a bastard is mostly bigoted Black Legend nonsense that has been a staple of KKK propaganda since the late 1870s. It has been used as a pretext to denigrate and dehumanize the Spanish, Hispanics, Italians and Catholics in this and other nations for generations. What did Corombo personally do that makes him a bastard? Not what was he accused of by people that stood to benefit by the accusations being true. Not what did he do that people who personally disliked Corombo. Not what did people who talked to him once did. And not what did people do who came after Corombo. What did Corombo personally do that makes him a bastard? The American Civil War is not offensive. It surely can be used in offensive ways. And you can be offended that it was ever fought. However, trying to be offended about something that is called something similar for an entirely different reason is repugnant. And to kowtow to the uneducated that fail to appreciate facts (no matter how nuanced) but instead are offended on unenlightened false assumptions is vexatiously stupid. There are three complete and abject failures there. First, there is a failure of one individual, who has failed to properly educate himself or herself. Second, there is a failure of a second to have any semblance of a central nervous system, including a brain and a spine, in response to the uneducated. And third, there is a failure of a third to both fail to enlighten the uneducated and to allow the brainless and spineless to make decisions. We should listen, and we should be open to change. However, we must base our decisions on facts and not feelings or faulty inferences. That is the opposite of progress, that is allowing this country to degenerate into an Idiocracy. Jesus, you’re starting to sound like me!! You can’t count the number of times I’ve tried to correct people’s pronunciation of karaoke, or sake, or the spelling of honcho. But dammit no one listens. Why? Because that’s how language works. When foreign words or names are brought into another language, they are pronounced or spelled by the rules of that language. So the fact that the man is known as Christopher Columbus is not a big of a deal as you try to make it, after all, I am using 21st century English, not 15th century Italian. By the way, that guy’s name that I began this paragraph with (Jesus), that’s not his name. Try to get millions of Christians to say and spell it properly, please. As for what Columbus did that was wrong, I would classify decimating a population from a quarter of a million to a few hundred as kind of evil, wouldn’t you agree? It clearly shows a disregard for the value of human life. I don’t exactly agree with your assessment of the Civil War as it pertains to the rivalry between the Beavs and the Ducks. I can imagine that U of O might not like the association given that it is the southern school in this rivalry and the naming was coined by fans, not the universities. I am open to hearing how athletes and students have felt about it, especially the voices of Black athletes and students. I think Ken Simonton best sums it all up. “I never had a president or athletic director, much less a coach who reached out to me and asked for my opinion as a Black man living in Corvallis,” Simonton said. “For Oregon State to reach out as a Black man for my opinion that had racial implications, I say thank you.” That’s the kind of listening and inclusion that I’m talking about. |
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Post by irimi on May 14, 2021 7:07:35 GMT -8
Wow, way to demonize any and all who disagree with you. Congratulations on that elaborate love letter to yourself. A little late for Valentine’s Day. Maybe he is tired of hearing "Be open and listen to others" from people that have no interest in being open and listening. I'm not saying that differing views and open conversation isn't productive. Conversation is a 2 way street that some don't understand. Happy love fest day to you too.😘 Boy, you love to criticize me in this way. Why? Because I don’t match up with your ideological views? You’re the one who shut down the conversation we had because you can’t handle someone who doesn’t think like you. You are the one who disengaged and wouldn’t listen. The only reason you engaged in the first place was to find if we had common ground, not to have a conversation; when you found out we don’t, you clammed up and resorted to petty attacks like this. LOL “Hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” |
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Post by TheGlove on May 14, 2021 7:29:04 GMT -8
I love it when white guys lecture on inclusion and open discussion. LOL.
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Post by irimi on May 14, 2021 7:41:53 GMT -8
I love it when white guys lecture on inclusion and open discussion. LOL. True. Too often it is lip service. And one could argue that the changes that we are discussing are rather insubstantial compared to the bigger picture. But it is interesting to me how much push-back there is for something as simple as a name change. |
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Post by beavs6 on May 14, 2021 12:32:18 GMT -8
Maybe he is tired of hearing "Be open and listen to others" from people that have no interest in being open and listening. I'm not saying that differing views and open conversation isn't productive. Conversation is a 2 way street that some don't understand. Happy love fest day to you too.😘 Boy, you love to criticize me in this way. Why? Because I don’t match up with your ideological views? You’re the one who shut down the conversation we had because you can’t handle someone who doesn’t think like you. You are the one who disengaged and wouldn’t listen. The only reason you engaged in the first place was to find if we had common ground, not to have a conversation; when you found out we don’t, you clammed up and resorted to petty attacks like this. LOL “Hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” OK. If you want to bring it here. You feel like you have every right to down play parts of humanity. You have your real world reasons. I respect them. I think they are ill conceived and hard lined. Every person is not the group they are a part of. Any large group of HUMANS will have "positive" and "negative" individuals in it. Judging the individual on the basis of the whole is the definition of bigotry. You have it in spades. I tried to engage you offline in the hopes you may not be that person. Glove, because I am a white guy, I can't speak the truth? When did that become a thing? |
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Post by TheGlove on May 14, 2021 15:03:02 GMT -8
Boy, you love to criticize me in this way. Why? Because I don’t match up with your ideological views? You’re the one who shut down the conversation we had because you can’t handle someone who doesn’t think like you. You are the one who disengaged and wouldn’t listen. The only reason you engaged in the first place was to find if we had common ground, not to have a conversation; when you found out we don’t, you clammed up and resorted to petty attacks like this. LOL “Hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” OK. If you want to bring it here. You feel like you have every right to down play parts of humanity. You have your real world reasons. I respect them. I think they are ill conceived and hard lined. Every person is not the group they are a part of. Any large group of HUMANS will have "positive" and "negative" individuals in it. Judging the individual on the basis of the whole is the definition of bigotry. You have it in spades. I tried to engage you offline in the hopes you may not be that person. Glove, because I am a white guy, I can't speak the truth? When did that become a thing? I think white guys should be doing a lot more listening than "speaking their truth." |
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Post by irimi on May 14, 2021 16:38:43 GMT -8
Boy, you love to criticize me in this way. Why? Because I don’t match up with your ideological views? You’re the one who shut down the conversation we had because you can’t handle someone who doesn’t think like you. You are the one who disengaged and wouldn’t listen. The only reason you engaged in the first place was to find if we had common ground, not to have a conversation; when you found out we don’t, you clammed up and resorted to petty attacks like this. LOL “Hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” OK. If you want to bring it here. You feel like you have every right to down play parts of humanity. You have your real world reasons. I respect them. I think they are ill conceived and hard lined. Every person is not the group they are a part of. Any large group of HUMANS will have "positive" and "negative" individuals in it. Judging the individual on the basis of the whole is the definition of bigotry. You have it in spades. I tried to engage you offline in the hopes you may not be that person. Glove, because I am a white guy, I can't speak the truth? When did that become a thing? You engaged me because you were hoping that I would be like you, not like who I am. You stopped engaging with me because I don't match your world view. Isn't that exactly a form of bigotry? If you did respect my views, you wouldn't repeatedly snipe at my character on the board. You didn't add anything to the discussion, just attacked me. I get it, but don't try to pass yourself off as something that you are not. I know that you are referencing my disdain for the Catholic Church, but the funny thing is that, throughout the many years of Church history, there has been need of cleansing. When the institution becomes rotten, things have changed. So there is hope. As for individual Catholics, I have no problem with them. Each person needs to be true to their spiritual journey whatever it may be, be it Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, atheist, or whatever. So Happy Eid and go Beavs! |
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Post by beavs6 on May 14, 2021 17:42:00 GMT -8
Agree to disagree.
Peace to both of you.
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