billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Feb 21, 2021 10:46:20 GMT -8
I really see a talent snd coaching difference. Colorado is better. Our offense seems to be stagnant. We use up the clock and we controlled Tempo. Our bigs rebounded well but could nit hit shots. They Colorado really defend. Will stay out of argument. I hate mediocrity. We are that in many sports.
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Post by beavheart on Feb 21, 2021 11:01:45 GMT -8
Colorado is a veteran team with leadership and talent. During this year that is a complete mess it feels silly to get too hung up about details. Had we been hitting some shots and gotten a few calls down the stretch we likely win this game. I hate moral victories, but the fact that we could hang with them in this game while shooting poorly, even for us, says something.
We have a team that is still figuring itself out post coach's-sons era, and we really could have used a full season of games to get to the consistency that we ALL want to see.
Everyone except for possibly ET (I think he should stay) should be back next year, and there's a couple good looking recruits coming in. I want to see what this team can do with a full off-season to get itself together and how they do next year before I'll be ready to throw the baby out with the bath water and start all over again. Again.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 21, 2021 11:50:26 GMT -8
Colorado is a veteran team with leadership and talent. During this year that is a complete mess it feels silly to get too hung up about details. Had we been hitting some shots and gotten a few calls down the stretch we likely win this game. I hate moral victories, but the fact that we could hang with them in this game while shooting poorly, even for us, says something. We have a team that is still figuring itself out post coach's-sons era, and we really could have used a full season of games to get to the consistency that we ALL want to see. Everyone except for possibly ET (I think he should stay) should be back next year, and there's a couple good looking recruits coming in. I want to see what this team can do with a full off-season to get itself together and how they do next year before I'll be ready to throw the baby out with the bath water and start all over again. Again. Yesterday was "senior night" (which is odd considering it wasn't the last home game of the year), and the OSU social media pages were only mentioning ZR and ET as the seniors being honored. So to me, that would indicate that they're likely both moving on and not going to pick up their extra COVID year, however we may see Silva sticking around as he is also listed as a senior but there was no mention of him. That could be me reading between the lines a little bit too much, but that's what I took from that.
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 21, 2021 12:54:31 GMT -8
Colorado is a team that is committed to playing D, and just has more to bring on the offensive end than we do at this point. They look to be a legit top 20 team. It's a model I hope we follow.
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Post by TheGlove on Feb 21, 2021 13:55:42 GMT -8
I wonder if ZR and ET will be back next season?
ET could play professionally somewhere.
IMO we would be better off giving ZRs minutes to a younger guy or a xfer.
Anyone know or have an opinion on if they come back?
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Post by beavheart on Feb 21, 2021 13:57:00 GMT -8
Colorado is a veteran team with leadership and talent. During this year that is a complete mess it feels silly to get too hung up about details. Had we been hitting some shots and gotten a few calls down the stretch we likely win this game. I hate moral victories, but the fact that we could hang with them in this game while shooting poorly, even for us, says something. We have a team that is still figuring itself out post coach's-sons era, and we really could have used a full season of games to get to the consistency that we ALL want to see. Everyone except for possibly ET (I think he should stay) should be back next year, and there's a couple good looking recruits coming in. I want to see what this team can do with a full off-season to get itself together and how they do next year before I'll be ready to throw the baby out with the bath water and start all over again. Again. Yesterday was "senior night" (which is odd considering it wasn't the last home game of the year), and the OSU social media pages were only mentioning ZR and ET as the seniors being honored. So to me, that would indicate that they're likely both moving on and not going to pick up their extra COVID year, however we may see Silva sticking around as he is also listed as a senior but there was no mention of him. That could be me reading between the lines a little bit too much, but that's what I took from that. That could be. Man, if I'm ZR or ET I would think about staying just so 2020-21 isn't my senior season. Crappy year to end it on.
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Post by TheGlove on Feb 21, 2021 14:02:44 GMT -8
Colorado is a veteran team with leadership and talent. During this year that is a complete mess it feels silly to get too hung up about details. Had we been hitting some shots and gotten a few calls down the stretch we likely win this game. I hate moral victories, but the fact that we could hang with them in this game while shooting poorly, even for us, says something. We have a team that is still figuring itself out post coach's-sons era, and we really could have used a full season of games to get to the consistency that we ALL want to see. Everyone except for possibly ET (I think he should stay) should be back next year, and there's a couple good looking recruits coming in. I want to see what this team can do with a full off-season to get itself together and how they do next year before I'll be ready to throw the baby out with the bath water and start all over again. Again. Yesterday was "senior night" (which is odd considering it wasn't the last home game of the year), and the OSU social media pages were only mentioning ZR and ET as the seniors being honored. So to me, that would indicate that they're likely both moving on and not going to pick up their extra COVID year, however we may see Silva sticking around as he is also listed as a senior but there was no mention of him. That could be me reading between the lines a little bit too much, but that's what I took from that. totally scrolled right by this post before making my similar post.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 21, 2021 15:38:04 GMT -8
Yesterday was "senior night" (which is odd considering it wasn't the last home game of the year), and the OSU social media pages were only mentioning ZR and ET as the seniors being honored. So to me, that would indicate that they're likely both moving on and not going to pick up their extra COVID year, however we may see Silva sticking around as he is also listed as a senior but there was no mention of him. That could be me reading between the lines a little bit too much, but that's what I took from that. That could be. Man, if I'm ZR or ET I would think about staying just so 2020-21 isn't my senior season. Crappy year to end it on. I would tend to agree that I would hate for my senior season to be this season if I was a player. I do think however that both Ethan and Zach graduated after last year, and I believe I heard that at least Ethan will have completed his Master's after this year already. I think Ethan is likely moving on, I don't know what Zach's status may be, my above thoughts were just a guess given their recognition by the social media team.
To Glove's question on an opinion re: them staying, I don't think it would hurt the team by any means bringing them back. Ethan would likely still be the go-to guy and best player on the team overall again, however I just don't know how much better he or ZR will get by playing a 5th season. The team would be better next year with them, but how much development of other guys would we lose with the two of them taking 60-75 minutes a game again?
I think I would be happy either way they decide to go. I would love to watch both players again because they're both high quality people and are easy to root for, on the other hand I would be happy for them if they chose to move on in their lives and careers. College sports demand a lot of your time and energy along with everything else you're asked to do as a student. My guess is they both probably move on and Roman stays for a 3rd year. I would be excited to see Roman's development because he did take a big step forward this year IMO, but he is always going to be a bit limited due to his lack of quick feet and athleticism.
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Post by jefframp on Feb 21, 2021 15:46:17 GMT -8
Ethan T. for his PhD!
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Post by nabeav on Feb 22, 2021 9:08:13 GMT -8
It wasn’t this post specifically, but the cumulative nature of all of his in this thread and the past. Since you don't know me let me tell you why I may be a bit negative on this team. Some on this board act as if being mediocre is ok as long as there is a good effort. Division 1 ncaa basketball isn't for those that seem to think as long as there is effort every one should get a trophy. We are on year 7 of tinkle and another year where we sit at the middle of the pac12. Another year that some of you believe it's good enough. Another year that some of you believe that tinkle is the best we can hope for. I have nothing against tinkle personally he seems like a good guy but I am tired of mediocrity as the best that is possible. I'm late to the thread, but man am I tired of this "some act as if being mediocre is OK" trope. That's like the definition of "OK." I'm OK with being OK because it's not terrible. Is it where I want the team to be? Of course not. I would love nothing more than to be furiously refreshing CBS Sports or ESPN for their bracketology updates to see where they had us listed. HOWEVER I'm not ready to blow everything up, start over, fork over a bunch of money for a buyout, then listen to all the "Tinkle needed to go" people tell me it's ok we suck for three years because the new guy is just "getting his guys in the system" and "we gotta give him time." Or.... Perhaps you remember Jay John's first season, when we swept the LA schools in LA for the first time since 1988 and the first time we won any game in LA since 2003 1995 and everyone was like "we're on our way!" Perhaps you remember Craig Robinson's first season, when he took a team that was real bad and clawed its way to a .500 record and a CBI championship and everyone was like "this is it! We've got a system coach! Wait til he gets his players in here!" Perhaps you remember Wayne's first season, when we started five walk-ons vs. Oregon in the last game of the season and Gill was packed and everyone had a blast even though we lost and then the next season we went to the NCAAs and everyone was like "this is it! We're finally back!" Was it time for Jay John to be fired? Absolutely. Was it time for Craig Robinson to be fired? I'd say yes, since he was openly discussing an AD job at Princeton that I don't even know if he was an actual candidate for while still employed at OSU. You can bellyache about extensions, but the fact of the matter is that you don't get coaches without long term deals. You think Wayne would've stayed if he had gone to the NCAA tournament and we said "congrats, here's a one year deal?" Every coach who has even a modicum of success gets an extension. That's how it works. Everyone who is on the "don't fire Wayne" train is not "content" to be middle of the Pac-12. We all want the same thing, for OSU to be the best in the league. Maybe that day is coming, when the NBA does away with the "one and done" rule and the top talent in the country skips college all together instead of congregating at a few schools in every conference (for us it's UCLA, USC, Arizona, and Oregon). Maybe when a freshman class of four kids comes in and all stick together for four or five years and we have a team chock full of 23 year olds in a year when other schools have lost their top talent we can have a good run for a couple of years that convinces more talented kids to take a chance on us. And not for nothing, Wayne Tinkle is STILL producing the best results we've seen in a generation. Eddie Payne won more than 6 conference games once. Jay John also only won more than six once. Craig did it four times in six years. Wayne has won more than 6 in every year except for the 5-27 season. None of those guys won more than 8 (Craig twice, Jay once). Wayne has won 8 or more 3 times, and will do so again this year if he wins one more game this season. He's been .500 or better in six of seven seasons (counting this year so far) - as many times as everyone else (Jimmy, Eddie, Ritchie, Jay, and Craig) did from 1989-2014. I'm not in love with Wayne as a coach. Too many guys transfer, but maybe that's just the way of things these days. We lost GPII and we took a one year hit (We also lost PJ Bruce, Olaf Schaftenaar, Malcolm Duvivier, LMW, and Jarmal Reid, not to mention Tres' injury that limited him to 6 games). I'm tired of being told I'm not a real Beaver fan because I don't want to fire everyone and cut underperforming players because we're not as good as I want us to be. Are you a fan of Oregon State, or are you a fan of winning? Because it seems like unless these guys are going to NCAA tournaments or winning Pac-12 championships, a lot of you "fans" couldn't care less about them.
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Post by zeroposter on Feb 22, 2021 10:40:30 GMT -8
Dr. E on the floor for the Beavers.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Feb 22, 2021 13:33:33 GMT -8
I agree the results have overall been better than the other coaches who have failed since the early 90’s. But isn’t the PAC12 much weaker than it used to be? I mean are we sure the TEAMS have been better or just the RECORDS due to the conference being worse? I don’t know the answer....just throwing that out there
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 22, 2021 14:10:41 GMT -8
I agree the results have overall been better than the other coaches who have failed since the early 90’s. But isn’t the PAC12 much weaker than it used to be? I mean are we sure the TEAMS have been better or just the RECORDS due to the conference being worse? I don’t know the answer....just throwing that out there I think it's a little bit of both. The conference is weaker yes, but the top teams are still bringing in highly ranked recruiting classes and top talent. Teams like ASU, oregon, and Stanford have done well/held their own against top competition in non-conference play the last few seasons. It seems like there is a stigma that the Pac-12 is a weak conference coming into each season and thus you don't see the top teams moving up the rankings all that much. USC at 18-3 was only ranked #17 this season for example, and after watching other conference and some of USC's games this year there is no doubt in my mind they can and would hang with any team out there outside of Gonzaga/Baylor. I've been very critical of the strength of the conference as a whole and Larry Scott's leadership, but it wasn't too long ago the conference got 7 teams in the tournament (along with OSU). It can't be denied that no team has had a lot of tournament success outside of maybe uo or a couple teams with double digit seeds winning a game or two (UW comes to mind a few years back). UA is probably the best example of underachieving in the post-season in recent history too. Anyway, I do think there is some component of the conference not being as strong overall, top to bottom it definitely isn't as strong as it used to be with a few teams really dragging down SOS for the better teams (Cal and WSU in particular, UW the last two seasons, OSU in 2017). However, I think WT has fielded a better product than his predecessors. His teams rarely are out of most games, they just make at times infuriating (and repetitive) mistakes that make us wonder how we lose some games we do. On the other end though even though it isn't always pretty, his teams grind like crazy and the effort is always there, which won us games against ASU, USC, and oregon this year, as well as upset wins over UA and previous Civil War games as well. It wasn't too long ago some folks on this board were saying WT was just padding his W-L record with out of conference play and wasn't winning enough conference games. Now I think it's kind of funny that as his conference record is improving over the last few seasons the attention shifts to the Pac-12 being weak. I still think this current group of guys has a lot of room to grow. If they can either find a scorer to replace ET next year, or some of the current group step up their offensive game a bit I could see next year's squad making some noise in a good way. If that doesn't happen though then it might be more of the same as this year where we are offensively challenged at times and struggle to support our defensive efforts.
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Post by nabeav on Feb 22, 2021 14:22:48 GMT -8
I agree the results have overall been better than the other coaches who have failed since the early 90’s. But isn’t the PAC12 much weaker than it used to be? I mean are we sure the TEAMS have been better or just the RECORDS due to the conference being worse? I don’t know the answer....just throwing that out there. It's a good question - here's my response. Maybe the conference is worse. The Pac-12 isn't competing nationally at the level we're used to. However, we haven't gotten worse with the rest of the league....that means we're doing something right, correct? Why is our talent level not falling off as much as other places? Is it the coaching? From an athletic standpoint, does anyone think OSU is on the same level as some of the teams we're beating? USC? Oregon? These teams are bigger, stronger, faster.....and yet we're competing with them night in and night out. To me, that speaks to coaching and culture. We're doing something that other schools aren't and we're gaining on them....slowly to be sure, but we are gaining on them. Again, if you look at most OSU programs, the ones that are most successful have kept coaches through difficult stretches. Pat Casey wasn't Pat Casey for the first decade of his career here. I coached one of his kids at the Boys and Girls Club sometime around 2000 - I remember asking his daughter if she was excited for baseball season, and she said "a little, but dad says he needs better players." I always laughed about that. Once he got them, it was off to the races. Men's golf was enjoying their best season in school history last year - Coach Reehoorn's 10th in charge. They made the NCAA Regionals for the first time in his tenure the year before. OSU does better when it keeps coaches for long stretches. A bit of that is obvious - better results mean longer tenures, but I think it still holds true for the most part....stick with a coach and good things will come. Not always (See: Andersen, Gary or Wagner, LaVonda) does it work out, but there's exceptions to every rule. All of that to say, we may not be on some exponential trajectory to national championships, but we're not getting worse.
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Post by blackbug on Feb 22, 2021 14:47:39 GMT -8
I support keeping Tinkle for now. Another point that others did not mention is I believe the recruiting is trending better. The current commits and the newcomers this year are mostly upgrades in skill, athleticism, and basketball intelligence. The depth of the roster is better. I think this mostly stems from the new assistant coach, Marlon Stewart. Tinkle saw that we at times were overwhelmed by Pac-12 athleticism. He changed things to better surround himself with a new assistant to address this.
I think Zach Reichle understands all too well that his shooting percentage goes way down on contested or rushed shots. Because of this he does pass up on some he should not. But I do not think he hurts the team as much as some think by passing up shots. He is trying really hard to make sure his team as a whole gets the best shot possible. This best possible shot is not him if he is rushed or contested.
Due to this I do not understand the calls for Zach to be benched due to passing on shots. I would understand the argument that he is not a good shooter unless his shots are uncontested so bench him. Subtle, but important difference.
Zach does bring a lot of other intangibles to the game as well.
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