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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 29, 2020 18:56:04 GMT -8
In terms of Lee and company, no, I'm sorry, but helping the country to heal after the war (whatever that might have entailed) isn't enough to undo what he did as the leader of the rebel troops. They lost. We don't give participation trophies. Take all the statues down! Tecumseh was a pro-slavery leader, who fought against the United States of America during the War of 1812. He was killed during the War. He lost. Should we take down his statue at the Naval Academy, as well? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander! I can’t wait until things that were considered normal in their old time period comes out about some of the “new heros” that are proposed as replacement schools, streets etc. Maybe “Elementary School 22” etc will make a comeback! Regarding destroying history: US cancel culture = ISIS |
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Post by Werebeaver on Dec 29, 2020 20:57:33 GMT -8
Tecumseh was a pro-slavery leader, who fought against the United States of America during the War of 1812. He was killed during the War. He lost. Should we take down his statue at the Naval Academy, as well? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander! I can’t wait until things that were considered normal in their old time period comes out about some of the “new heros” that are proposed as replacement schools, streets etc. Maybe “Elementary School 22” etc will make a comeback! Regarding destroying history: US cancel culture = ISIS That darn cancel culture. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 29, 2020 20:59:25 GMT -8
In terms of Lee and company, no, I'm sorry, but helping the country to heal after the war (whatever that might have entailed) isn't enough to undo what he did as the leader of the rebel troops. They lost. We don't give participation trophies. Take all the statues down! Tecumseh was a pro-slavery leader, who fought against the United States of America during the War of 1812. He was killed during the War. He lost. Should we take down his statue at the Naval Academy, as well? Yes. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 29, 2020 21:05:25 GMT -8
Regarding destroying history: US cancel culture = ISIS Where are the beheadings?! Dammit, I want the beheadings! |
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 29, 2020 21:22:14 GMT -8
Regarding destroying history: US cancel culture = ISIS Where are the beheadings?! Dammit, I want the beheadings! I know you’re an expert on all social issues, but one of the main things Isis did when gaining power and invading (even more than beheadings) was raid museums and cultural sites, many thousands of years old, and destroy them. It was in the news. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 29, 2020 21:24:06 GMT -8
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander! I can’t wait until things that were considered normal in their old time period comes out about some of the “new heros” that are proposed as replacement schools, streets etc. Maybe “Elementary School 22” etc will make a comeback! Regarding destroying history: US cancel culture = ISIS That darn cancel culture. Whatever you wish to call it is fine with me. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Dec 29, 2020 22:14:44 GMT -8
Where are the beheadings?! Dammit, I want the beheadings! I know you’re an expert on all social issues, but one of the main things Isis did when gaining power and invading (even more than beheadings) was raid museums and cultural sites, many thousands of years old, and destroy them. It was in the news. Dude, put on a clean and dry pair of Depends. The statue of Lee was removed after a free and public debate and vote in the State of Virgina's legislature. I've heard it's being moved back to Richmond to be placed in a local history museum where folks who want to lionize their tin gods can do so freely but perhaps in a more appropriate historical context. The statue is not being destroyed. In my opinion it should have been melted down and cast into doorstops (no sense in wasting good bronze). But I didn't have a vote on the matter. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 30, 2020 8:24:23 GMT -8
Where are the beheadings?! Dammit, I want the beheadings! I know you’re an expert on all social issues, but one of the main things Isis did when gaining power and invading (even more than beheadings) was raid museums and cultural sites, many thousands of years old, and destroy them. It was in the news. Now it all makes sense. ISIS going in and raiding museums and destroying cultural sites is, indeed, equivalent to the Internet attacks on celebrities who have stepped over some line of decency. Let me step outside and check to see if my American flag is still flying, give it a quick salute, and thank God that our troops can protect our way of life from the surly menace that cancelled the Roseanne show. For what is America if our celebrities are held accountable for their actions? That isn’t the American way. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 30, 2020 8:26:57 GMT -8
I know you’re an expert on all social issues, but one of the main things Isis did when gaining power and invading (even more than beheadings) was raid museums and cultural sites, many thousands of years old, and destroy them. It was in the news. Dude, put on a clean and dry pair of Depends. The statue of Lee was removed after a free and public debate and vote in the State of Virgina's legislature. I've heard it's being moved back to Richmond to be placed in a local history museum where folks who want to lionize their tin gods can do so freely but perhaps in a more appropriate historical context. The statue is not being destroyed. In my opinion it should have been melted down and cast into doorstops (no sense in wasting good bronze). But I didn't have a vote on the matter. Lionize their gods says the guy with an old wrestling broadcaster as an avatar. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 30, 2020 8:37:50 GMT -8
That darn cancel culture. Whatever you wish to call it is fine with me. Good. Call it something else because it is not cancel culture, which refers to social media calling out celebrities for their actions or words. No one is canceling the Civil War. No one is canceling Lee’s role in the Civil War. Nothing is getting canceled. Museums are not being destroyed and history isn’t being rewritten. |
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Post by seastape on Dec 30, 2020 12:37:39 GMT -8
My two cents:
1) I'm bummed out that the "cent" sign is no longer immediately accessible on a keyboard
2) I'm all for getting rid of statues of men (and women, if there are any) that served on the confederate side of the Civil War. The confederates were traitors, one and all, who attacked the US all in the name of preserving slavery. Go ahead and throw their statutes in a museum, but I would melt them down or chip them to nothing.
3) Unfortunately, the side that asked, "How far is this going to go? Where does it end?" when considering the issue of taking down confederate statues are proving to be right in their fears. So far, I've seen statues of Grant and Lincoln taken down and the call for the renaming of streets and schools that were named after our slaveholding presidents and presidents who were absolutely vicious toward Indigenous Americans. People want to take down the Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln monuments. It is not hard to imagine that the ideology will keep going. The women's suffrage movement? There were a lot of racists there, can't honor any of them. Honoring World War I and II vets? No, the armed forces were segregated during those conflicts and we cannot honor that! Pretty soon, only Martin Luther King Jr., Harriet Tubman and Cesar Chavez will be honored.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 30, 2020 15:20:18 GMT -8
I know you’re an expert on all social issues, but one of the main things Isis did when gaining power and invading (even more than beheadings) was raid museums and cultural sites, many thousands of years old, and destroy them. It was in the news. Dude, put on a clean and dry pair of Depends. The statue of Lee was removed after a free and public debate and vote in the State of Virgina's legislature. I've heard it's being moved back to Richmond to be placed in a local history museum where folks who want to lionize their tin gods can do so freely but perhaps in a more appropriate historical context. The statue is not being destroyed. In my opinion it should have been melted down and cast into doorstops (no sense in wasting good bronze). But I didn't have a vote on the matter. That's not true. The decision was made by:  Dr. Edward L. Ayers, former President of the University of Richmond, and hardcore Democrat ideolog who helped to write the "New American History." He is not a professor of history, only "New American History." He is one of the foremost men in America actively working to erase and rewrite American History.  Dr. Colita Nichols Faifax, a Doctor of African American Studies at Nofolk State University. She is the wife of Tony Fairfax, who is almost always used as a consultant or expert, when Democrats are in charge of gerrymandering districts or to help sue Republican districting plans.  Julie Langan, an Art History major, who received a masters in Architectural History. She used her degree to ultimately rise to the Director of Virginia Historic Preservation, but her focus is and has always been architectural history preservation.  Senator L. Louise Lucas, owns several businesses and has been accused of fraud and double-dealing in regards to property and hotels that she owns. She participated in a mostly peaceful Black Lives Matter riot protest in Portsmouth, Virginia, where four statues dedicated to 379 soldiers who had died in the Civil War were beheaded. She herself was charged with multiple felonies related to her actions, and the Mayor of Portsmouth has indicated that she has been dishonest about her subsequent defense of her actions. Ms. Lucas chaired the eight-member committee.  Fred Motley, a professional actor, director and "storyteller."  Chief G. Anne Richardson, the Chief of the Rappahannock Tribe, as was her father before her, his father before him and his father before him. ![]() Margaret Vanderhye, a former Clinton appointee and former member of the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority appointed by Govenors Mark Warner and Tim Kaine (now, the two Democratic Senators from Virginia). She was a Delegate in the Virginia House of Delegates before being defeated by Barbara Comstock. Vanderhye has largely been absent from the public eye for more than a decade, so it is great to see that she is still getting work.  Delegate Jeion A. Ward, the President of the Hampton Federation of Teachers, AFT Local 4260 for the past 22 (or so) years. She is also a member of Virginia's AFL-CIO Executive Council. She has been a Delegate in the Virginia House of Delegates for almost 17 years. At some point in her murky past, she was a middle school teacher. The only pseudo-historian is Ayers. The rest have no business making the decision. There was no free and fair public debate and vote at the legislature. Virginia is completely controlled (for now) by the Democratic Party. All eight members of the Committee were hardcore Democrats, and mostly Democratic technocrats. The statue is a work of art by Edward Virginius Valentine more than a century ago in 1909 in bronze. That is awesome. Doorstops? Seriously? At least they are replacing this statue, though. Hopefully, the statue of Barbara Rose Johns turns out well. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 30, 2020 15:22:03 GMT -8
Tecumseh was a pro-slavery leader, who fought against the United States of America during the War of 1812. He was killed during the War. He lost. Should we take down his statue at the Naval Academy, as well? Yes. Bold statement. I 100% disagree, but I 100% respect a consistent opinion. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 30, 2020 16:03:09 GMT -8
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander! I can’t wait until things that were considered normal in their old time period comes out about some of the “new heros” that are proposed as replacement schools, streets etc. Maybe “Elementary School 22” etc will make a comeback! Regarding destroying history: US cancel culture = ISIS That darn cancel culture. Bolshevik Cancel Culture:   Nazi Cancel Culture in Austria:  Nazi Cancel Culture of the Grunwald Monument in Krakow:  Nazi Cancel Culture of the Frederic Chopin Monument in Warsaw:  Nazi Cancel Culture in France:  Al Qaeda Cancel Culture:  ISIS Cancel Culture:     History can be messy and nuanced and should not always be celebrated. However, when they have the power to do so, history shows that evil or weak-minded people will seek to bend and destroy a nation's history to fit their own narrative, rather than dealing with thoughts or ideas that do not perfectly line up with their own. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 30, 2020 17:36:45 GMT -8
It's interesting to me how some of you can compare what may be occurring in the US these day to the actions of the Nazis and ISIS. The intentions are completely opposite.
The real "cancel culture" occurred many years ago when generations of Americans were taught the wrong things in school. White culture cancelled out most of the sins of their fathers by teaching kids a whitewashed version of American history.
This original transgression is more akin to what ISIS and the Nazis were attempting to accomplish, namely to write and teach history and celebrate heroes in such a way as to promote a certain cultural fantasy.
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