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Post by willtalk on Oct 22, 2020 17:59:06 GMT -8
I find it baffling that the Ducks are ranked so high. All they have left is Boley and she was great against the nobodies and zip against the somebodies last season. The rest of the team is a couple of backups and a bunch of players who have never played college ball. Is is possible that they will end up a top ten team, yes. Is it probable, no. There ranking is no different than has been applied to other successful teams in the past. As to them having nothing but back ups, one has to consider who they were backing up. We were talking about 3 lottery picks and another player who got drafted and stuck to a roster. They had easily the top rated incoming freshman class as well as the younger Sabbaly who is coming off of an injury. Then you add Prince who is at worst a good center. The coach of a team also counts for quite a bit as evidenced by how high Uconn was rated even though they lost their best 3 players and had far less coming back than Oregon. They do have a few question marks, but so do most teams. So how well they will ultimately do is yet to be determined, but their rating is not unjustified. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Oct 22, 2020 18:07:34 GMT -8
I find it baffling that the Ducks are ranked so high. All they have left is Boley and she was great against the nobodies and zip against the somebodies last season. The rest of the team is a couple of backups and a bunch of players who have never played college ball. Is is possible that they will end up a top ten team, yes. Is it probable, no. There ranking is no different than has been applied to other successful teams in the past. As to them having nothing but back ups, one has to consider who they were backing up. We were talking about 3 lottery picks and another player who got drafted and stuck to a roster. They had easily the top rated incoming freshman class as well as the younger Sabbaly who is coming off of an injury. Then you add Prince who is at worst a good center. The coach of a team also counts for quite a bit as evidenced by how high Uconn was rated even though they lost their best 3 players and had far less coming back than Oregon. They do have a few question marks, but so do most teams. So how well they will ultimately do is yet to be determined, but their rating is not unjustified. FTd |
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Post by willtalk on Oct 22, 2020 18:17:59 GMT -8
Sydney could use her size and ball handling skills to get around defenders. No, Sydney couldn't, not against a quick small guard. She was hamstrung too many times unable to move when she was being harrassed by one of them. I recall this clearly as my major issue with her. Yes, an excellent ball-handler, but not when being manned-up by an aggressive small player. She was just too long. Sydney just didn't know how to use her size against smaller players. She still had a huge upside left when she came out of college in that respect. Her starting during the second half of the recent WNBAs season speaks to her developing her upside. Part of evaluating players is recognizing how much upside they have left. The Sparks coach recognized that in Syd and therefor kept her on the team her first season even though she did not score a point. Many times physically gifted players like Sydney never develop certain skills because the level they are playing at does not really require them too. They get by because the are just so much better than their competition. You see that more in high school, but it still applies in college. Sydney still had a lot of upside left, along with that quick release, but many players don't so when they get to the next level coaches will not have the patience to allow them to develop missing skills. Smart players, who anticipate continuing to play at the next level, spend time developing all their skills instead of just riding the ones they have, because their strengths will not be that effective against better competition. They will need all the advantages possible to even stay on a high level team. |
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Post by willtalk on Oct 22, 2020 18:48:06 GMT -8
Other than Destiny, have we ever had a PG that could beat a defender off the dribble? Those years seem to have generally turned out well under Rueck. That said, I agree this team needs some big surprise developments to be a top 10 team, but I believe the pieces are there expect we can be a 4+ seed at the end of the season. Of course, maybe that's now considered a rebuilding year around here? The last two years the team has actually underachieved with a PG who could beat a defender off the dribble. Everything has a trade off, unless you are dealing with a player who has no weaknesses. I have not been timid in my evaluation of the style of play this last season. The focus on the dribble drives negatively affected a part of the teams game that was usually a strength. It was a trade off, but most fans did not recognize it as such. I think the team should be far more effective offensively with a return to what worked for them in the past. You know, when the team over achieved every ones expectations. I agree with Beaverstever on his perspective. This years team is far more solid than it has been the last two previous years. Give the team some time to incorporated the new players and it will be very formidable if the playoff do happen. A team is the sum of its individual parts. If the parts work together the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. This was not the case the last two seasons. The parts were working at cross purposes. This is Scotts style and what he attempted to get his players to buy into. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 22, 2020 20:36:14 GMT -8
Other than Destiny, have we ever had a PG that could beat a defender off the dribble? Those years seem to have generally turned out well under Rueck. That said, I agree this team needs some big surprise developments to be a top 10 team, but I believe the pieces are there expect we can be a 4+ seed at the end of the season. Of course, maybe that's now considered a rebuilding year around here? The last two years the team has actually underachieved with a PG who could beat a defender off the dribble. Everything has a trade off, unless you are dealing with a player who has no weaknesses. I have not been timid in my evaluation of the style of play this last season. The focus on the dribble drives negatively affected a part of the teams game that was usually a strength. It was a trade off, but most fans did not recognize it as such. I think the team should be far more effective offensively with a return to what worked for them in the past. You know, when the team over achieved every ones expectations. I agree with Beaverstever on his perspective. This years team is far more solid than it has been the last two previous years. Give the team some time to incorporated the new players and it will be very formidable if the playoff do happen. A team is the sum of its individual parts. If the parts work together the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. This was not the case the last two seasons. The parts were working at cross purposes. This is Scotts style and what he attempted to get his players to buy into. This is laughable. If you really think this year’s team that lost its best two players and is missing Kennedy, is going to more “solid”, good luck with that. You sound like an uck football fan. The conference has greatly improved and finishing in the top 4 in the conference will be a stretch this year with this many new players. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Oct 22, 2020 22:54:47 GMT -8
No, Sydney couldn't, not against a quick small guard. She was hamstrung too many times unable to move when she was being harrassed by one of them. I recall this clearly as my major issue with her. Yes, an excellent ball-handler, but not when being manned-up by an aggressive small player. She was just too long. Sydney just didn't know how to use her size against smaller players. She still had a huge upside left when she came out of college in that respect. Her starting during the second half of the recent WNBAs season speaks to her developing her upside. Part of evaluating players is recognizing how much upside they have left. The Sparks coach recognized that in Syd and therefor kept her on the team her first season even though she did not score a point. Many times physically gifted players like Sydney never develop certain skills because the level they are playing at does not really require them too. They get by because the are just so much better than their competition. You see that more in high school, but it still applies in college. Sydney still had a lot of upside left, along with that quick release, but many players don't so when they get to the next level coaches will not have the patience to allow them to develop missing skills. Smart players, who anticipate continuing to play at the next level, spend time developing all their skills instead of just riding the ones they have, because their strengths will not be that effective against better competition. They will need all the advantages possible to even stay on a high level team. Sydney, like all players had weaknesses, but she also had an amazing ability, time after time, to hit the key shot and stick a dagger in the other team. Not many can do that, but Syd sure could. And that makes up for many a deficiency in my book. If I were picking the one player who is the biggest reason for the team's success in the Rueck era, I'd choose Sydney, no question. |
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Post by lotrader on Oct 23, 2020 6:23:49 GMT -8
The last two years the team has actually underachieved with a PG who could beat a defender off the dribble. Everything has a trade off, unless you are dealing with a player who has no weaknesses. I have not been timid in my evaluation of the style of play this last season. The focus on the dribble drives negatively affected a part of the teams game that was usually a strength. It was a trade off, but most fans did not recognize it as such. I think the team should be far more effective offensively with a return to what worked for them in the past. You know, when the team over achieved every ones expectations. I agree with Beaverstever on his perspective. This years team is far more solid than it has been the last two previous years. Give the team some time to incorporated the new players and it will be very formidable if the playoff do happen. A team is the sum of its individual parts. If the parts work together the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. This was not the case the last two seasons. The parts were working at cross purposes. This is Scotts style and what he attempted to get his players to buy into. This is laughable. If you really think this year’s team that lost its best two players and is missing Kennedy, is going to more “solid”, good luck with that. You sound like an uck football fan. The conference has greatly improved and finishing in the top 4 in the conference will be a stretch this year with this many new players. Hardly laughable, Willtalk's position is accurate, especially as it relates to OSU WBB coaching staff. The OSU coaching staff has done a marvelous job each year developing the optimal team identity with the stable of talent they put on the floor. Sometimes that it built around the post, last year it was built around the point/wings. This year, likely to be designed around the post/forwards. Whatever it is, the talent is there with the return of Taya & Taylor, quality transfers, and, talented incoming freshman, and, a quality senior point guard "leader". I recognize the PAC-12 is going to be a grind. However, I think we will match up well with the likes of Arizona, ASU, UCLA. Stanford, USC, and possibly UO will be our toughest tests in my view. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 23, 2020 7:07:06 GMT -8
This is laughable. If you really think this year’s team that lost its best two players and is missing Kennedy, is going to more “solid”, good luck with that. You sound like an uck football fan. The conference has greatly improved and finishing in the top 4 in the conference will be a stretch this year with this many new players. Hardly laughable, Willtalk's position is accurate, especially as it relates to OSU WBB coaching staff. The OSU coaching staff has done a marvelous job each year developing the optimal team identity with the stable of talent they put on the floor. Sometimes that it built around the post, last year it was built around the point/wings. This year, likely to be designed around the post/forwards. Whatever it is, the talent is there with the return of Taya & Taylor, quality transfers, and, talented incoming freshman, and, a quality senior point guard "leader". I recognize the PAC-12 is going to be a grind. However, I think we will match up well with the likes of Arizona, ASU, UCLA. Stanford, USC, and possibly UO will be our toughest tests in my view. Never said anything against the coaching staff. However, the talent at the guard positions is going to make it difficult for this team to match up with the elite teams in the conference. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 7:33:50 GMT -8
Hardly laughable, Willtalk's position is accurate, especially as it relates to OSU WBB coaching staff. The OSU coaching staff has done a marvelous job each year developing the optimal team identity with the stable of talent they put on the floor. Sometimes that it built around the post, last year it was built around the point/wings. This year, likely to be designed around the post/forwards. Whatever it is, the talent is there with the return of Taya & Taylor, quality transfers, and, talented incoming freshman, and, a quality senior point guard "leader". I recognize the PAC-12 is going to be a grind. However, I think we will match up well with the likes of Arizona, ASU, UCLA. Stanford, USC, and possibly UO will be our toughest tests in my view. Never said anything against the coaching staff. However, the talent at the guard positions is going to make it difficult for this team to match up with the elite teams in the conference. Doesn't it sort of depend on how Sasha comes along? Rueck has already said she's a lockdown defender the likes of which we haven't seen in a while (meaning she's a better defender than Pivec, of course). There has been praise from practice that indicates she will start and could have a big impact this year. She was a top HS talent and she's 6'1" tall whereas Pivec was just 5'10". And Savannah has talent, too. By the end of the season, who knows how good Sasha could be? Rueck didn't hesitate to pull Destiny and put in Aleah, and Destiny and Aleah both had about the same amount of playing time, so why should we see a big dropoff at PG? An optimist could say we could be in pretty good shape at guard. And we have vastly more depth at center and forward. Taya and Ellie? Jelena and Jovana? These are 4 bigs we didn't have last year to go along with an outstanding talent like Taylor, where last year when Taylor went out Rueck had to choose between Maddie and Janessa and Patricia. Who else has a 6'9" with basketball savvy? I think this team could gel by the end of the season and be really tough. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 23, 2020 8:11:17 GMT -8
Never said anything against the coaching staff. However, the talent at the guard positions is going to make it difficult for this team to match up with the elite teams in the conference. Doesn't it sort of depend on how Sasha comes along? Rueck has already said she's a lockdown defender the likes of which we haven't seen in a while (meaning she's a better defender than Pivec, of course). There has been praise from practice that indicates she will start and could have a big impact this year. She was a top HS talent and she's 6'1" tall whereas Pivec was just 5'10". And Savannah has talent, too. By the end of the season, who knows how good Sasha could be? Rueck didn't hesitate to pull Destiny and put in Aleah, and Destiny and Aleah both had about the same amount of playing time, so why should we see a big dropoff at PG? An optimist could say we could be in pretty good shape at guard. And we have vastly more depth at center and forward. Taya and Ellie? Jelena and Jovana? These are 4 bigs we didn't have last year to go along with an outstanding talent like Taylor, where last year when Taylor went out Rueck had to choose between Maddie and Janessa and Patricia. Who else has a 6'9" with basketball savvy? I think this team could gel by the end of the season and be really tough. They could gel by the end of the year. I’m just concerned with having to rely on Freshman to fill the void of your two best players from last year. What they also need, is a huge jump from Jasmine to provide guard depth. |
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Post by rmancarl on Oct 23, 2020 9:11:28 GMT -8
First, let's start with the last couple years. Destiny is a REAL talent but the team never jelled while she was here. I think that would mostly be contributed to the differences between her style of play and Coach Rueck's style of play. Had the style's matched, Destiny would still be here. Saying that, you have to be concerned about the lack of a point guard who can slash and find her way to the basket. This year's team will not look the same as last year's, yet still has a shot to good.
Taylor as a sophomore will likely be quite a bit better than Taylor as a freshman.
I would expect Taya as a Junior to be better than Kennedy as a freshman.
Ellie won't be Mik, but she will be VERY good. She won't rebound like Mik (although Ellie has good RB numbers), but you will probably see more 3's out of her, and much like Mik her overall shooting is very good.
Senior Aleah should be better than Junior Aleah.
Sasha won't be the offensive threat Destiny was, but will probably be a better defender from the start and more versatile.
Backups---(first, I don't even know if those mentioned above will be the starters, but let's just roll with this for now)
Jovana---averaged over 8 points per game last season in the Pac12. Do you realize that is almost the same as Aleah? It's double what Maddie provided last season. I don't know what Jelena M will provide, that remains to be a mystery we will find out about soon, but Jovana should provide more production off the bench than Beaver backup bigs last season, even though Jovana plays a lot outside.
Jasmine---I think we will see her best season yet. It won't surprise me if we see a nice jump in her play, but who knows. She should be better and more productive than last year though.
Teresa---all the Beavs need from her, and what I expect is a few solid back up minutes for Aleah. We'll have to wait and see, but I think her ability to handle the ball and run the show for a few minutes a game will be just fine.
The real questions in my mind are:
What will Jelena bring? Will she provide better backup than Patricia did last season?
Is Teresa ready to provide those backup minutes for Aleah, and if not, will Sasha, Savannah, or anyone else be able to provide relief for a few minutes?
How much improvement will we see from Jasmine?
I think we should know what to expect from Taylor, Taya, Ellie, Aleah, Jovana, and Sasha, it's how much of a surprise, or how much improvement do we see from the rest of the team that may answer how good this team can be.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 9:34:13 GMT -8
The real questions in my mind are: What will Jelena bring? Will she provide better backup than Patricia did last season? Is Teresa ready to provide those backup minutes for Aleah, and if not, will Sasha, Savannah, or anyone else be able to provide relief for a few minutes? How much improvement will we see from Jasmine? "What will Jelena bring?" Apparently she is good enough that SR would consider moving her to center and playing Taylor at forward, or vice versa. Considering the following quote, it seems she brings formidability, or formidableness, or formidality, or formidabilitiveness. Something formidable, anyway:
"[Jelena] doesn't lack skill that's for sure. ... The 2 of them are dynamic and formidable." |
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Post by beaverstever on Oct 23, 2020 10:23:15 GMT -8
As much as I loved Syd, I regularly held my breath when she was defended by quick guards. I have the same twitch with Aleah. I didn't with Destiny, but she would find different ways to turn the ball over anyway, so it netted out IMO.
This team has the length to go over the top of pressing teams. Kennedy was key to doing that last year, so that will be missed, but I feel confident that Ellie, Taya and Sasha will fill that void even better that Kennedy was able to largely alone last year. We should not need Aleah to beat teams off the dribble. And while Jas. probably can do that, I hope we won't ask her to do that much either.
And I'll probably get killed for this, but I thought having Pivec as the team's go-to player in critical scoring situations was not something that suited her game and hurt us last. year at times (UA game exceptional of course). She's a do-it-all box-score filler, but her game wasn't great at scoring when the defense was focused on her. Destiny has the physical ability to get shots off in isolation, but her going out and doing that was very spotty. More than anything, I just felt last years team ended up more of a sum of the parts being less than a collective team - especially compared to historic Rueck teams, and I am (probably unreasonably) optimistic that this team will gel better into a more efficient collective. That is, trading Taya for Brown brings the outside shooting threat at the cost of some rebound and defense. Mack/Goforth for Pivec loses rebounding and leadership, but adds size and perhaps better passing into the. interior. Goforth/Simmons/Faustino for Destiny generally is a tough one to gauge; when Destiny was on, she was irreplaceable; when's she was disappearing and out of sync, we will generally gain on size and defense, and probably offensive flow plus. Bottom line is that just because we lost two very dynamic players doesn't aways mean a huge drop-off in outcomes.
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Post by 411500 on Oct 23, 2020 11:04:47 GMT -8
just my 2 cents here, but I think this thread has some really good basketball commentary written into it....
We have lots of unknowns for this year's team, but the analysis some of you have written about what's coming and what's not coming is very interesting to me.
Keep it up. Preseason analysis, like pre-holiday planning, is half the fun....
As near as I can tell, everyone seems to pretty much agree that whether the Beavs are a Top 5 team in the Pac, or a Top 3 team is going to greatly depend on how impressively 3 players deliver who we have never before seen in action: Jelena Mitrovic, Ellie Mack and Sasha Goforth....
If those 3 are the real deal (wouldn't that be great!!) I can see this team finishing 2nd to Stanford....And being an Elite 8 tourney team.
Even I know that's wishful thinking. But, hey, 90% of being a dedicated, lifetime fan is grounded in some degree of wishful thinking.
Sometimes a lot of it.....
GO BEAVS!!
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wbosh15
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Post by wbosh15 on Oct 23, 2020 11:20:55 GMT -8
As much as I loved Syd, I regularly held my breath when she was defended by quick guards. I have the same twitch with Aleah. I didn't with Destiny, but she would find different ways to turn the ball over anyway, so it netted out IMO. This team has the length to go over the top of pressing teams. Kennedy was key to doing that last year, so that will be missed, but I feel confident that Ellie, Taya and Sasha will fill that void even better that Kennedy was able to largely alone last year. We should not need Aleah to beat teams off the dribble. And while Jas. probably can do that, I hope we won't ask her to do that much either. And I'll probably get killed for this, but I thought having Pivec as the team's go-to player in critical scoring situations was not something that suited her game and hurt us last. year at times (UA game exceptional of course). She's a do-it-all box-score filler, but her game wasn't great at scoring when the defense was focused on her. Destiny has the physical ability to get shots off in isolation, but her going out and doing that was very spotty. More than anything, I just felt last years team ended up more of a sum of the parts being less than a collective team - especially compared to historic Rueck teams, and I am (probably unreasonably) optimistic that this team will gel better into a more efficient collective. That is, trading Taya for Brown brings the outside shooting threat at the cost of some rebound and defense. Mack/Goforth for Pivec loses rebounding and leadership, but adds size and perhaps better passing into the. interior. Goforth/Simmons/Faustino for Destiny generally is a tough one to gauge; when Destiny was on, she was irreplaceable; when's she was disappearing and out of sync, we will generally gain on size and defense, and probably offensive flow plus. Bottom line is that just because we lost two very dynamic players doesn't aways mean a huge drop-off in outcomes. I think this is really good analysis, but I think we will be losing much less rebounding and defense with Taya that you might think. The only thing I would give Kennedy a real plus is defending centers, just because of her height. I think Taya and judging by the playing time she has gotten in the biggest games in her career, Rueck agrees, is a excellent defender and rebounder. Taya averaged slightly more rebounds as a sophomore than Kennedy is a freshman, 7.6 to 7.8. (Although I admit that's only 1 extra rebound every 5 games). |
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