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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 3, 2020 18:03:44 GMT -8
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Post by orangeattack on Jul 4, 2020 9:39:32 GMT -8
I'm glad they are keeping Colletto primed for short yardage/goal line situations to play a Tebow-type role.
The thing that I found most interesting was Lindgren's comments:
Emphasis added was mine. I think this opens up an interesting point of discussion that the coaches rarely ever get into for our QB's, the mental aspect of the game. What I thought was really interesting is that Lindgren obviously feels that they had to limit Jake's reads. Given Luton's production (62% completion ratio, 149.0 QB rating, and an insane 28 to 3 TD to INT ratio, I find this surprising, to say the least.
If the coaches had to keep the playbook simplified for Jake, I think that really says something about the offensive genius of this staff.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 10:07:09 GMT -8
I'm glad they are keeping Colletto primed for short yardage/goal line situations to play a Tebow-type role. The thing that I found most interesting was Lindgren's comments: Emphasis added was mine. I think this opens up an interesting point of discussion that the coaches rarely ever get into for our QB's, the mental aspect of the game. What I thought was really interesting is that Lindgren obviously feels that they had to limit Jake's reads. Given Luton's production (62% completion ratio, 149.0 QB rating, and an insane 28 to 3 TD to INT ratio, I find this surprising, to say the least. If the coaches had to keep the playbook simplified for Jake, I think that really says something about the offensive genius of this staff. Luton's major knock was his incoming INT rate and being known as a gunslinger. It probably stands the test of reason his incredible 28 to 3 TD to INT ratio was, in part, a product of putting some strict guidelines on his play. It think it is kind of fitting the Jags got him to pair with Minshew, as both are kind of gunslinger-eqsue guys that like going downfield. It is probably a mix of seeing that Gebbia can make on the fly reads while still protecting the ball, whereas they felt Luton might go Farve on them and play huck it, chuck it football! At least, that is my read on the comments.
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Post by vhalum92 on Jul 6, 2020 14:47:32 GMT -8
Didn't we often see Jake lock on to a receiver and throw it to said receiver even when they weren't open on many occasions? I haven't seen enough of Gebbia to make the conclusions that Coach is making, so we will have to trust he has seen enough reps over 2 years.
My concern is Gebbia's arm strength to throw it down the field. Maybe it is my own bias as a fan but I love it when we have the ability to take the top off and press things vertically. I believe it opens up the run game and the screen game as well. Without it... everything gets to packed in and it is tough for the rest of the playbook to be effective.
Time will tell, but I like the depth we have built. I also hope guys like Moore and Chryst are also football smart and ready to go... it is in the blood lines for sure.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 19:50:31 GMT -8
Didn't we often see Jake lock on to a receiver and throw it to said receiver even when they weren't open on many occasions? I haven't seen enough of Gebbia to make the conclusions that Coach is making, so we will have to trust he has seen enough reps over 2 years. My concern is Gebbia's arm strength to throw it down the field. Maybe it is my own bias as a fan but I love it when we have the ability to take the top off and press things vertically. I believe it opens up the run game and the screen game as well. Without it... everything gets to packed in and it is tough for the rest of the playbook to be effective. Time will tell, but I like the depth we have built. I also hope guys like Moore and Chryst are also football smart and ready to go... it is in the blood lines for sure. Didn't we often see Jake lock on to a receiver and throw it to said receiver even when they weren't open on many occasions? I didn’t, actually.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 6, 2020 21:31:19 GMT -8
I think that "locking on the receiver" complaint is way, way over used. Anyone that completes 62% of their passes and has a 28/3 TD/Int ratio throwing a lot of long balls is either not telegraphing passes to defenders or is so incredibly accurate in putting the ball where only the receiver can catch it that it doesn't matter.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 21:32:17 GMT -8
I think that "locking on the receiver" complaint is way, way over used. Anyone that completes 62% of their passes and has a 28/3 TD/Int ratio throwing a lot of long balls is either not telegraphing passes to defenders or is so incredibly accurate in putting the ball where only the receiver can catch it that it doesn't matter. And to be fair, sometimes you just know your guy is gonna win. He had Hodgins after all...
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Post by irimi on Jul 7, 2020 6:18:25 GMT -8
I'm glad they are keeping Colletto primed for short yardage/goal line situations to play a Tebow-type role. The thing that I found most interesting was Lindgren's comments: Emphasis added was mine. I think this opens up an interesting point of discussion that the coaches rarely ever get into for our QB's, the mental aspect of the game. What I thought was really interesting is that Lindgren obviously feels that they had to limit Jake's reads. Given Luton's production (62% completion ratio, 149.0 QB rating, and an insane 28 to 3 TD to INT ratio, I find this surprising, to say the least. If the coaches had to keep the playbook simplified for Jake, I think that really says something about the offensive genius of this staff. I agree. Rarely do coaches talk about the intelligence of the QB until the go pro where it is a must. What I’m curious about is what aspect of the mental game is coach noticing. Does this mean he can handle another 25 plays? Does this mean he can read situations more adeptly? Can he read defenses better? Or is some combination of all of these that they mean when they talk of his mental game? Any way you look at it, we should see a better offense on the field as a result.
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Post by orangeattack on Jul 7, 2020 8:41:45 GMT -8
I'm glad they are keeping Colletto primed for short yardage/goal line situations to play a Tebow-type role. The thing that I found most interesting was Lindgren's comments: Emphasis added was mine. I think this opens up an interesting point of discussion that the coaches rarely ever get into for our QB's, the mental aspect of the game. What I thought was really interesting is that Lindgren obviously feels that they had to limit Jake's reads. Given Luton's production (62% completion ratio, 149.0 QB rating, and an insane 28 to 3 TD to INT ratio, I find this surprising, to say the least. If the coaches had to keep the playbook simplified for Jake, I think that really says something about the offensive genius of this staff. I agree. Rarely do coaches talk about the intelligence of the QB until the go pro where it is a must. What I’m curious about is what aspect of the mental game is coach noticing. Does this mean he can handle another 25 plays? Does this mean he can read situations more adeptly? Can he read defenses better? Or is some combination of all of these that they mean when they talk of his mental game? Any way you look at it, we should see a better offense on the field as a result. It's hard to say whether Gebbia is going to have a better season even if he IS a better quarterback than Luton, for the simple fact that Gebbia doesn't have Hodgins. I don't know that we are really going to have a better offense on the field even if Tristan is objectively a significant improvement, and the debates will rage about this. I think what I was getting at is that it kind of feels like this staff has the creativity/flexibility to create production from the offense from different mixes of talent. The thing that I admired about Riley's offense was the crazy high production it could produce, if you could just live through the pain of getting experience for his QB. That's not to say they didn't bring wrinkles and creativity - what they did with the Rodgers brothers is obviously the first thing to come to mind but they also mixed in some stuff like fullbacks and the misdirection/tunnel screen stuff they did more heavily to get Cooks into space for instance. It feels like a different style, the offense under Lindgren and Smitty. Riley and Langs had a kind of "we are going to go out and dictate the pace and if we execute you can't stop it" feel philosophically. Heavy on the concept of lulling your opponent to sleep or forcing them to start pressing on defense with a methodical pace then pulling out the play action. Lindgren and Smith seem to be playing a "go where they ain't" type of leverage game, taking what the defense is giving.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 11:10:38 GMT -8
I agree. Rarely do coaches talk about the intelligence of the QB until the go pro where it is a must. What I’m curious about is what aspect of the mental game is coach noticing. Does this mean he can handle another 25 plays? Does this mean he can read situations more adeptly? Can he read defenses better? Or is some combination of all of these that they mean when they talk of his mental game? Any way you look at it, we should see a better offense on the field as a result. It's hard to say whether Gebbia is going to have a better season even if he IS a better quarterback than Luton, for the simple fact that Gebbia doesn't have Hodgins. I don't know that we are really going to have a better offense on the field even if Tristan is objectively a significant improvement, and the debates will rage about this. I think what I was getting at is that it kind of feels like this staff has the creativity/flexibility to create production from the offense from different mixes of talent. The thing that I admired about Riley's offense was the crazy high production it could produce, if you could just live through the pain of getting experience for his QB. That's not to say they didn't bring wrinkles and creativity - what they did with the Rodgers brothers is obviously the first thing to come to mind but they also mixed in some stuff like fullbacks and the misdirection/tunnel screen stuff they did more heavily to get Cooks into space for instance. It feels like a different style, the offense under Lindgren and Smitty. Riley and Langs had a kind of "we are going to go out and dictate the pace and if we execute you can't stop it" feel philosophically. Heavy on the concept of lulling your opponent to sleep or forcing them to start pressing on defense with a methodical pace then pulling out the play action. Lindgren and Smith seem to be playing a "go where they ain't" type of leverage game, taking what the defense is giving. That was Petersen's number 1 offensive philosophy. Riley followed Pro style philosophy's of creating your own space: play action for most of the time at OSU, then later moving to shotgun spread passing attacks leaning on route combinations to confuse defenders. Petersen, more times than not, would opt to use whatever space was already there.
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Post by irimi on Jul 7, 2020 12:56:01 GMT -8
I agree. Rarely do coaches talk about the intelligence of the QB until the go pro where it is a must. What I’m curious about is what aspect of the mental game is coach noticing. Does this mean he can handle another 25 plays? Does this mean he can read situations more adeptly? Can he read defenses better? Or is some combination of all of these that they mean when they talk of his mental game? Any way you look at it, we should see a better offense on the field as a result. It's hard to say whether Gebbia is going to have a better season even if he IS a better quarterback than Luton, for the simple fact that Gebbia doesn't have Hodgins. I don't know that we are really going to have a better offense on the field even if Tristan is objectively a significant improvement, and the debates will rage about this. I think what I was getting at is that it kind of feels like this staff has the creativity/flexibility to create production from the offense from different mixes of talent. The thing that I admired about Riley's offense was the crazy high production it could produce, if you could just live through the pain of getting experience for his QB. That's not to say they didn't bring wrinkles and creativity - what they did with the Rodgers brothers is obviously the first thing to come to mind but they also mixed in some stuff like fullbacks and the misdirection/tunnel screen stuff they did more heavily to get Cooks into space for instance. It feels like a different style, the offense under Lindgren and Smitty. Riley and Langs had a kind of "we are going to go out and dictate the pace and if we execute you can't stop it" feel philosophically. Heavy on the concept of lulling your opponent to sleep or forcing them to start pressing on defense with a methodical pace then pulling out the play action. Lindgren and Smith seem to be playing a "go where they ain't" type of leverage game, taking what the defense is giving. Good points. I like the idea of having an intelligent qb though. Intelligent quarterbacks can improve the level of play all around them. With the talent in the backfield and a good signal caller, the receivers ought to have a good season. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if you take what the defense is giving you, you don't have to have superstar players who have to break free. If you get the ball to the open guy, then the rest is up to his skill. Of course, it will require the ability to read the defense well.
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Post by vhalum92 on Jul 7, 2020 16:16:28 GMT -8
I think that "locking on the receiver" complaint is way, way over used. Anyone that completes 62% of their passes and has a 28/3 TD/Int ratio throwing a lot of long balls is either not telegraphing passes to defenders or is so incredibly accurate in putting the ball where only the receiver can catch it that it doesn't matter. And to be fair, sometimes you just know your guy is gonna win. He had Hodgins after all... I agree, many times our receivers won the battle. Maybe the phrase or the complaint is over used, but I've heard it a bunch from the group I sit with. I'm not saying Jake isn't very intelligent... he did great on the Wonderlic test. Here's a look at the scores of the 12 quarterbacks who took the Wonderlic in 2020: Nate Stanley (Iowa): 40 Jake Fromm (Georgia); 35 Joe Burrow (LSU): 34 Jake Luton (Oregon State): 29 Jordan Love (Utah State): 27 Justin Herbert (Oregon): 25 Anthony Gordon (Washington State): 25 Brian Lewerke (Michigan State): 25 Jacob Eason (Washington): 23 James Morgan (Florida International): 23 Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma): 18 Tua Tagovailoa (Alabama): 13 In the end, our conclusions of Jake's performance is no longer a concern for future contests... however the armstrength of Gebbia and his ability to throw the deep ball could be.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 7, 2020 16:56:40 GMT -8
Jake was plenty smart, he had the disadvantage of having a different quarterback coach every year of his college career until last year. This will be Tristan's 3rd season under Lundgren, it should pay some benefits.
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Post by irimi on Jul 7, 2020 17:10:07 GMT -8
Jake was plenty smart, he had the disadvantage of having a different quarterback coach every year of his college career until last year. This will be Tristan's 3rd season under Lundgren, it should pay some benefits. You hit the nail on the head.
Little is more detrimental to building consistency than swapping leadership and offensive/defensive schemes.
We've had a number of players come through since Riley left who would have done much better with consistency.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Jul 7, 2020 17:29:14 GMT -8
TG has a possession receiver in 5th year senior Bradford. He has speedy wide-outs and sure handed tight ends. A stable of excellent RB's behind him. If the OL can keep him upright, this could be a special year! Of course the thing that players and coaches can't control, namely this damned pandemic may derail the whole thing.
Just the Beavers luck that when the Washington schools have new coaches, the quackers are looking for a new qb, and the Beavs look ready to take a big step forward anyway, the season goes into the crapper.
Go Beavs!!
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