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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 17:22:50 GMT -8
What..... in hell..... are you even talking about? “Progressive math?” Per capita MEANS SOMETHING. Do you not understand that? I didn't ask per capita or percentage. I asked total numbers of the overall US population. What is so difficult for you to understand about that, lefty? Lol Yes... we can do 5th grade math. what is difficult for me to understand is how a so called adult would think that matters or is an actual point worth arguing. are you gonna sit here and try and defend a notion that because there is 17.9 million whites in poverty and "only" 8.4 million blacks, that white privilege doesn't exist, despite there being 224 million whites compared to 42 million blacks. I reiterate my previous statement. that is the single stupidest thing I have ever heard.
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Post by lebaneaver on Jul 6, 2020 17:23:33 GMT -8
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 17:23:55 GMT -8
Of course it can happen to anybody. the point is it happens to certain demographics more. From the 2018 ACS: 8.1% of White's are at or below the poverty level compared with 20.8% of Blacks 17.6% of Hispanics 23.7% of Native Americans So... either Blacks, Hispanics and Native Americans all need to start making better life choices and that some how, some way, whites are all universally better at making good live choices... OR, you know, maybe, just maybe, there are a couple of issues at play affecting those numbers. Generational poverty affects Blacks in this country more than Whites because for generations cities, governments, banks and other entities locked out Blacks from areas of the cities, wouldn't lend them money, could approve mortgages, and shoved the communities into crowded, poorly maintained rental block housing. If we are such a racist nation how do you explain these numbers -
Notice all that "White Privilege" did not help us to have the highest per household income in the US. Indians and Asians have us beat. If we are such a racist country, why are so many people from around the world, even people of color, clamoring to come here?
H1-B visas? I mean, it is actually pretty racist...
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Post by beaverstever on Jul 6, 2020 17:25:34 GMT -8
Uh, no. Because they are 70% of the population, they will have the majority of totals in any measurement, even when the % is small. Ohhhhh okay.
How many current NBA players are white/black/other?
Just going by your last statement (above).
That's a good question. I don't know the answer - there are some theories, including cultural priorities (which is what explains Canadian dominance of NHL) and genetics (the NFL and NBA reward genetic outliers more than some other sports). However, I don't consider professional sports as very useful for demographic analysis of opportunity measurement. Is there a case for white discrimination in the NBA? (and NFL)? Possibly, but I doubt the evidence is there, as those entities are incentivized by a common denominator of winning.
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Post by NativeBeav on Jul 6, 2020 17:37:55 GMT -8
If we are such a racist nation how do you explain these numbers -
Notice all that "White Privilege" did not help us to have the highest per household income in the US. Indians and Asians have us beat. If we are such a racist country, why are so many people from around the world, even people of color, clamoring to come here?
Are you asking because you are genuinely curious to know the answer, or are you just looking to reinforce a view and not broaden your understanding? Because I can explain how those two things can co-exist, but I'm not sure you actually care to learn. I am simply suggesting it is waaayyy to easy to write off everything bad that happens in the black community as systemic racism. Yes, I can see a lot of different reasons for the numbers, just like you, but I thought one of your earlier posts touched on some of it. To suggest that the plight of the inner city person of color is solely about racism I believe is intellectually dishonest. Poor white kids (often called white trash) have many of the same disadvantages as poor black kids.
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Post by NativeBeav on Jul 6, 2020 17:41:00 GMT -8
If we are such a racist nation how do you explain these numbers -
Notice all that "White Privilege" did not help us to have the highest per household income in the US. Indians and Asians have us beat. If we are such a racist country, why are so many people from around the world, even people of color, clamoring to come here?
H1-B visas? I mean, it is actually pretty racist... That gets them here, but then what? Do you think they succeed by expecting everything handed to them, because they are disadvantaged as an immigrant, one that looks different than the white population? Go look at the public school enrollment stats - whites are now in the minority in the public schools. Does that mean much? No, not really. Still boils down to the choices you make.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 17:46:39 GMT -8
If we are such a racist nation how do you explain these numbers -
Notice all that "White Privilege" did not help us to have the highest per household income in the US. Indians and Asians have us beat. If we are such a racist country, why are so many people from around the world, even people of color, clamoring to come here?
H1-B visas? I mean, it is actually pretty racist... I want to correct myself. I meant to write exploitative. not racist. It wouldn't let me edit my post. Some do argue it is racist, actually some argue is it racist against whites. the H1-B program is controversial for sure. I did mean exploitative when I wrote that, but my fingers when another direction after doing back to back posts. But that is a big reason for what you cite. US firms targeting Indian and Asians on H1-B workers that still earn "good" wages, but at the same time are often (but not always) below prevailing wage in the area. when you dig deeper you find that many Indians in particular in America, are paid less for comparative work, but a higher proportion come here for "skilled" labor. But I want to address a bigger point... the "If we are such a racist nation..." lead in. You are defending American. Like... defending it like it is your kid, or sports team. That whattabout-ism lead in was full on defense mode. Refusing to listen to criticism and/or completely unwilling to accept there *might* be a problem. Like, man, I love America. I do. But you can love something and accept there are problems that need fixing. I need to mow the lawn at my house from time to time. doesn't mean I hate my house. I gotta fix things that are broken... If my water heater breaks. I don't "love my house or leave it" I fix my damn water heater! Saying we have racism issues in America we need to address does not equal "I hate America". It is a pretty normal, and responsible thing to do to want to fix things that aren't right.
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Post by irimi on Jul 6, 2020 17:47:07 GMT -8
They are held back by poor life choices? So you can choose which neighborhood you are born into? You can choose the quality of teachers you get or the quality of school you attend? You can choose the quality of public transportation available to you? You can choose how much money your mom or dad makes and how much the rent on your family’s apartment is? Choice = privilege. What you wrote above can apply to anyone/everyone who's not wealthy and also depending on the location they live (among about 20 other factors you didn't address).
^^^ Is that your idea of "white privilege"? ^^^
Did you have an actual point?
Good! I'm glad that you see how important these factors are for developing a society that is happy and thriving. So tell me, why are you against that? If you see that it can benefit white people along with black people, why are you fighting it?
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 17:54:45 GMT -8
Yes... we can do 5th grade math. what is difficult for me to understand is how a so called adult would think that matters or is an actual point worth arguing. are you gonna sit here and try and defend a notion that because there is 17.9 million whites in poverty and "only" 8.4 million blacks, that white privilege doesn't exist, despite there being 224 million whites compared to 42 million blacks. I reiterate my previous statement. that is the single stupidest thing I have ever heard. No, idiot. I'm simply saying being "white" in and of itself does not give you "privilege" simply because you are in the majority population-wise. And when people refer to this "white privilege" narrative, that's how it's portrayed. If you are poor and white you aren't any more "privileged" than if you are poor and black (or simply black and less poor, either one). Next, you will tell me how LBJ wasn't one of the biggest racists there was (Mr. "Great Society"). I stand corrected... THIS is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. But it was a good way of deflecting from the point of my post... which was the fact that 8.1% of whites live in poverty compared to 20.3% of blacks. And asking the key question: is that because, as an entire population, black people make worse life choices than white people? or is it because of something else? Are black people 2.5 time more likely to make a bad decision than whites? If not, why does this disparity exist? why is a Black person over twice as likely to live in poverty, in America, than a white person?
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Post by irimi on Jul 6, 2020 18:03:17 GMT -8
Yes... we can do 5th grade math. what is difficult for me to understand is how a so called adult would think that matters or is an actual point worth arguing. are you gonna sit here and try and defend a notion that because there is 17.9 million whites in poverty and "only" 8.4 million blacks, that white privilege doesn't exist, despite there being 224 million whites compared to 42 million blacks. I reiterate my previous statement. that is the single stupidest thing I have ever heard. No, idiot. I'm simply saying being "white" in and of itself does not give you "privilege" simply because you are in the majority population-wise. And when people refer to this "white privilege" narrative, that's how it's portrayed. If you are poor and white you aren't any more "privileged" than if you are poor and black (or simply black and less poor, either one). Next, you will tell me how LBJ wasn't one of the biggest racists there was (Mr. "Great Society"). Why it most certainly does. Privilege doesn't mean you don't have to work hard for what you have. And it doesn't mean that everything will be easy for you.
A white person in a society built for white people on the backs of African slaves, Chinese slaves, and Mexican (essentially) slaves has more social advantage than any of the other groups.
It really is unfortunate that you cannot step out of your skin for a day and see what happens on a daily basis, albeit subtly. Walking down the street, you move to the other side because you notice two or three black men with hoodies coming toward you. Why? Fear. Why? News reports, movies, society. That's racism right there. Driving to work in the morning, you see the Hispanics working in the field. You know that they are illegal. You know that they get underpaid. You know that they have no way to enter into society, yet they slave in the fields to keep the price of your tomatoes down. And who benefits? Yup. The farmer. That's your white privilege driving you to work in your office in the city. On your drive in to town, you know your car has a busted taillight that you've been meaning to get fixed. When the cop pulls you over, you explain it to him and drive off with a warning. He didn't search your vehicle. He didn't have his hand on his weapon when he approached your car. That's privilege. You walk into a 7-11 or the equivalent to buy some cigarettes. You give the clerk a 20 dollar bill. When she checks it, it's fake. (Let's be honest, she probably wouldn't even check your $20 bill.) Does she call the cops? Nope. That's privilege.
You have never had to fight for the right to vote. You have never had to fight for equal pay. You have never had to fight for the right to drink from the same water fountain or sit in the front of the bus.
That's privilege. That's the difference, man. You were born with all you need to succeed or fail.
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Post by beaverstever on Jul 6, 2020 18:14:52 GMT -8
Are you asking because you are genuinely curious to know the answer, or are you just looking to reinforce a view and not broaden your understanding? Because I can explain how those two things can co-exist, but I'm not sure you actually care to learn. I am simply suggesting it is waaayyy to easy to write off everything bad that happens in the black community as systemic racism. Yes, I can see a lot of different reasons for the numbers, just like you, but I thought one of your earlier posts touched on some of it. To suggest that the plight of the inner city person of color is solely about racism I believe is intellectually dishonest. Poor white kids (often called white trash) have many of the same disadvantages as poor black kids. I don't think anybody is writing off all the problems black people face in this country as completely due to racism - and I agree, anybody that does is not being intellectually honest. The point is that some of the factors are related to racism, and that is what I (and many, ideally all Americans) find to be unacceptable, and should not exist. It would be great if poor black kids only faced the same disadvantages as poor white kids.
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Post by beavs6 on Jul 6, 2020 18:31:03 GMT -8
H1-B visas? I mean, it is actually pretty racist... I want to correct myself. I meant to write exploitative. not racist. It wouldn't let me edit my post. Some do argue it is racist, actually some argue is it racist against whites. the H1-B program is controversial for sure. I did mean exploitative when I wrote that, but my fingers when another direction after doing back to back posts. But that is a big reason for what you cite. US firms targeting Indian and Asians on H1-B workers that still earn "good" wages, but at the same time are often (but not always) below prevailing wage in the area. when you dig deeper you find that many Indians in particular in America, are paid less for comparative work, but a higher proportion come here for "skilled" labor. But I want to address a bigger point... the "If we are such a racist nation..." lead in. You are defending American. Like... defending it like it is your kid, or sports team. That whattabout-ism lead in was full on defense mode. Refusing to listen to criticism and/or completely unwilling to accept there *might* be a problem. Like, man, I love America. I do. But you can love something and accept there are problems that need fixing. I need to mow the lawn at my house from time to time. doesn't mean I hate my house. I gotta fix things that are broken... If my water heater breaks. I don't "love my house or leave it" I fix my damn water heater! Saying we have racism issues in America we need to address does not equal "I hate America". It is a pretty normal, and responsible thing to do to want to fix things that aren't right. You also don't fix the water heater by breaking the front window, punching a hole through your roof, and doing burnies in the lawn. You fix the damn water heater. (I really don't want to be in the back and forth. As I've tried to articulate, in the long run, I don't think you fix wrongs with more wrongs.)
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Post by beaverstever on Jul 6, 2020 18:36:35 GMT -8
Are you asking because you are genuinely curious to know the answer, or are you just looking to reinforce a view and not broaden your understanding? Because I can explain how those two things can co-exist, but I'm not sure you actually care to learn. I am simply suggesting it is waaayyy to easy to write off everything bad that happens in the black community as systemic racism. Yes, I can see a lot of different reasons for the numbers, just like you, but I thought one of your earlier posts touched on some of it. To suggest that the plight of the inner city person of color is solely about racism I believe is intellectually dishonest. Poor white kids (often called white trash) have many of the same disadvantages as poor black kids. On that chart, I don't have the research, but I live in the Bay, and anecdotally, it's pretty obvious: - India has a billion people, and the intellectually elite typically go overseas to work, because Indian society has lots of issues in terms of doing well (along with lots of other drawbacks around climate, corruption, etc). If you are the elite amongst a billion people, you are already a major outlier. So it's no surprise that their median income is very high, when the population in the US primarily consists of software engineers, doctors, etc that qualified for a visa. The same is true for much of Asia, although they had more of a existing presence before H1B opportunities, diluting some of their representation. - Another factor is that asian culture is more likely to aggregate wealth to help friends/families. This appears to exist much more than with white families, in my anecdotal experience. That is, pooling money for house downpayment from relatives, for starting business, etc. These are cultural values built into cultural norms/wisdom passed on generations. - Now consider black people in the US. Outside of recent immigrants, they generally have zero idea of what country, removing any chance of being assisted by a cultural wisdom - it was completely wiped out by the slave trade. So even relative to immigrants coming from other nations at a similar poverty scale, a black person won't generally have historical cultural reference elements that could otherwise help them out. On "white privilege", I also really don't like the term, because on it's face, it sounds like things were handed to me, and all the work I put in to be where I am is negated. It's poorly branded for sure, but that doesn't mean that it could (would) have required even more work for others with a different ethnic or cultural backdrop. I do think that there is 'Asian' privilege, particularly in this country, which comes from cultural elements that better emphasize the importance of education, less aversion to occupations that involve math and science degrees, etc. Are these things something they should be ashamed of? Of course not. As I am not ashamed that I had the benefit of being raised by two parents? Of course not. However, I do realize that it has benefitted me, and I fully can appreciate that a kid that doesn't have that will have a tougher time. And so I strongly believe that finding ways to help get everybody to start at the same starting line will help the entire country.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 18:49:28 GMT -8
Well, again with the folks that think I’m stupid, but I went there and that definition was absent. I can post them all tomorrow if you wish. I went to the end, which was lengthy.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 6, 2020 18:50:44 GMT -8
LOL at this dude, you should do us a favor and post his recent twitter history... that will really reinforce his credibility. And yes, I am well aware SPLC faced their own discrimination scandal. I am also well aware of the fact they fired their founder and replaced him with an Asian woman and then voted to unionize... Unionize? That should fix it.
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