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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 17, 2020 11:57:21 GMT -8
BIG HONKING GRAPHIC GOES HERE
You are both wrong. Regardless of the media that you consume, you are the victim. The media has devolved into entertainment, echo chamber porn for the weak-minded. Allowing your decisions to be made by your betters (in academia, media, science, etc.), allowing them to cow you into what to do or what to think is the sign of a devolving democratic society. Use your knowledge, intuition, and common sense to come to your own conclusions and to make your own decisions. Think for yourself. Speak for yourself. Act for yourself. (The final paragraph is not directed at anyone specifically, just my opinion. Use it or ignore it to your heart's content.) And all the food you buy is produced by a handful of companies, too. It is the nature of capitalism. Get more money and buy your competitors out until you are king of the hill. Yes, it is wise to consume your food and your news mindfully. Be aware of sensationalism and the like. The easiest answer to this is NPR and PBS which are anything but sensational news services. Plus, you have a ton of international choices as well. But when “thinking for yourself” involves ignoring experts, you have to start to wonder who is really just fooling themselves.
Sometimes 4 out of 5 dentists are just right, and that last dentist is an idiot and likes bad toothpaste... ya know? Sometimes you are disagreeing with the majority not because the majority is wrong, but because it is in your nature to be contrarian. for no other reason to be so. Sometimes you just want to feel special. you want to believe you know something other's don't know. you want to feel smarter than everyone else. Look at all these idiots than think this, if only they knew the truth! and sometimes you are struggling to make sense of what seems like a truly arbitrary, senseless, purely chaotic world... you want to believe there is a master behind it all pulling the strings, because the alternative to that is pretty darn scary.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 12:00:11 GMT -8
And all the food you buy is produced by a handful of companies, too. It is the nature of capitalism. Get more money and buy your competitors out until you are king of the hill. Yes, it is wise to consume your food and your news mindfully. Be aware of sensationalism and the like. The easiest answer to this is NPR and PBS which are anything but sensational news services. Plus, you have a ton of international choices as well. But when “thinking for yourself” involves ignoring experts, you have to start to wonder who is really just fooling themselves. Exactly!! PBS and NPR are left leaning. Try again
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Post by irimi on Jun 17, 2020 12:06:39 GMT -8
PBS and NPR are left leaning. Try again When I look for the news, I'm not looking for a political statement. I can make up my own mind on what I would like the world to look like. I simply look for reliable, educated, and trustworthy news sources.
Seems to me, you're looking for a talking head that will repeat the things you want to hear.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 17, 2020 12:22:02 GMT -8
PBS and NPR are left leaning. Try again NPR opinion leans left however NPR news is generally graded as center. Same with PBS Here is where people struggle: COMMENTARY IS NOT NEWS. OPINION IS NOT NEWS. There is the idea of reporting the events, providing some context and understand to convey the ideas and then telling you an analysis of it. the analysis is not the news, but people tune in more to that than the news part. That is the issue. most people do not know what to think about something and lean towards "trusted sources" to be told what to think. NEWS (and news only) graded as center tend to be: AP, Bloomberg (again, news), BBC, Christian Science Monitor, NPR, Reuters, The Hill, USA today, Wall Street Journal. This is an aggregate list across several entities that use standard methods to rate bias. Of course, when it then comes to commentary, all of those move one direction or another. When graded for bias in commentary, NPR drifts to a left lean wereas Wall Street Journal drift right lean, for example. NY Times and WaPo leans about equally left and Fox News leans right for NEWS. Both lean further left and right, respectively for OPINION. The one thing I will credit both the NY Times with and WaPo is they both almost always indicate in their articles the article is "commentary" or "op-ed" historically Fox News does not tend to make these distinctions on their online content. In my opinion (and I have no problems admitting I am a dirty commie pinko bastard) I find that pretty unethical. I have zero problem with biased opinion and commentary. I have a huge problem with biased commentary masquerading as news.
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 17, 2020 12:47:50 GMT -8
PBS and NPR are left leaning. Try again People have a difficult time differentiating between NPR News and the other programming (editorial, entertainment) you will hear on a public radio station. That content is produced by many different entities, including NPR. I don’t watch PBS news so I have no opinion on it.
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Post by hottubbeaver on Jun 17, 2020 12:50:49 GMT -8
PBS and NPR are left leaning. Try again NPR opinion leans left however NPR news is generally graded as center. Same with PBS Here is where people struggle: COMMENTARY IS NOT NEWS. OPINION IS NOT NEWS. There is the idea of reporting the events, providing some context and understand to convey the ideas and then telling you an analysis of it. the analysis is not the news, but people tune in more to that than the news part. That is the issue. most people do not know what to think about something and lean towards "trusted sources" to be told what to think. NEWS (and news only) graded as center tend to be: AP, Bloomberg (again, news), BBC, Christian Science Monitor, NPR, Reuters, The Hill, USA today, Wall Street Journal. This is an aggregate list across several entities that use standard methods to rate bias. Of course, when it then comes to commentary, all of those move one direction or another. When graded for bias in commentary, NPR drifts to a left lean wereas Wall Street Journal drift right lean, for example. NY Times and WaPo leans about equally left and Fox News leans right for NEWS. Both lean further left and right, respectively for OPINION. The one thing I will credit both the NY Times with and WaPo is they both almost always indicate in their articles the article is "commentary" or "op-ed" historically Fox News does not tend to make these distinctions on their online content. In my opinion (and I have no problems admitting I am a dirty commie pinko bastard) I find that pretty unethical. I have zero problem with biased opinion and commentary. I have a huge problem with biased commentary masquerading as news. NPR/PBS is only considered closer to the center because the majority of our entertainment sources, print news media, and air wave news media are so far left. Fox's balanced reporting is the closest thing we have left to a central viewpoint. Take for example a very simple thing to check on your own. When the U.S. economy was in the midst of breaking nearly all historical records for growth, joblessness, employment, and growth for all races and genders over a multiyear period, should that not be a repeating top story? A good, bad, or great economy impacts the lives of all races, genders, socioeconomic backgrounds, in fact everyone with the exception of the small percentage of wealthiest people. Perhaps more than any other single factor a historically strong economy benefits all people. So unless you disagree with that, I would challenge you to go look at how much positive press/air time was given to this historical uplifting event by NPR/PBS versus negative slanted stories. The mainstream media barely mentioned it and when they did it was usually wedged between two negative stories. FOX covered the historical evolving event as you would expect from a source that's just giving you the facts. I would call that dead center reporting, wouldn't you? Just give me the facts man, not some facts, not misleading facts, but all the facts and I'll form my own opinion. I look more for what's not reported, than what is in order to determine who may or may not be credible and balanced. It would baffle me to find intelligent people who would disagree, unless they truly can not see through their own bias.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 17, 2020 12:55:13 GMT -8
When the U.S. economy was in the midst of breaking nearly all historical records for growth, joblessness, employment, and growth for all races and genders over a multiyear period, should that not be a repeating top story?
Except none of this was true. There were numerous times in our history the economy grew at a faster rate. In fact, almost every single year under President Obama.
Fox is so biased it borders on ridiculous. To call Fox a "neutral" news source defies credibility.
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Post by lebaneaver on Jun 17, 2020 13:02:55 GMT -8
PBS and NPR are left leaning. Try again Never mind. The truth has no lean. I'd stack NPR up against ANY institute regarding reporting facts. The truth. You can't SERIOUSLY say that about fox or oann.
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Post by hottubbeaver on Jun 17, 2020 13:05:32 GMT -8
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Post by hottubbeaver on Jun 17, 2020 13:15:41 GMT -8
When the U.S. economy was in the midst of breaking nearly all historical records for growth, joblessness, employment, and growth for all races and genders over a multiyear period, should that not be a repeating top story? Except none of this was true. There were numerous times in our history the economy grew at a faster rate. In fact, almost every single year under President Obama. Fox is so biased it borders on ridiculous. To call Fox a "neutral" news source defies credibility. It's not worth my time to attempt dialogue with someone who's not willing to accept simple historical facts. If not for the record investment and stock market growth since Trump took office, many liberal run states (some close to home wink, wink) PERs plans would have collapsed without MASSIVE tax increases and robbing money from necessary government programs. Trumps economy bailed liberal states out of finding themselves embroiled in bankruptcy and insolvency proceedings. Also, what about those manufacturing jobs Obama said were never coming back t the U.S. without a magic wand? Guess we found one!!!
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 17, 2020 13:15:52 GMT -8
BIG HONKING GRAPHIC GOES HERE
You are both wrong. Regardless of the media that you consume, you are the victim. The media has devolved into entertainment, echo chamber porn for the weak-minded. Allowing your decisions to be made by your betters (in academia, media, science, etc.), allowing them to cow you into what to do or what to think is the sign of a devolving democratic society. Use your knowledge, intuition, and common sense to come to your own conclusions and to make your own decisions. Think for yourself. Speak for yourself. Act for yourself. (The final paragraph is not directed at anyone specifically, just my opinion. Use it or ignore it to your heart's content.) And all the food you buy is produced by a handful of companies, too. It is the nature of capitalism. Get more money and buy your competitors out until you are king of the hill. Yes, it is wise to consume your food and your news mindfully. Be aware of sensationalism and the like. The easiest answer to this is NPR and PBS which are anything but sensational news services. Plus, you have a ton of international choices as well. But when “thinking for yourself” involves ignoring experts, you have to start to wonder who is really just fooling themselves. Straw man's argument. I do not ignore true experts' opinions. But I never base my actions around what one "expert" says. And I never base my actions around what experts in one field say without stepping back and evaluating how it fits into the larger framework. I hire experts all the time, including infectious disease experts, and I depose experts all of the time, including infectious disease experts. A lot of "experts" are anything but. And usually an opinion costs a lot of money and is ultimately biased based upon who is paying for such opinion. Because, if the payor does not like an opinion, the payor will simply find a new expert to issue a second opinion, which will be the one that is published. By way of an example, I got into a discussion about global warming's impact upon climate change. I tend to believe in man-made global warming based upon experts and data; however, a lot of the corollary opinions related to climate change are nonsensical scare tactics advanced by "experts," masquerading as "science." I challenged a relative's assertion once that forest fires were related to climate change and the retort was here are what two "experts" have to say. I read the article and the data. First, the "experts" had no background in environmental science or forestry or anything of the sort. They were just statisticians. Second, in order for the statisticians to get a positive correlation between global warming and forest fires, they had to completely disregard the first half of the data. They gave no reason for doing so. Ignoring half of the data, they were able to show that global warming caused more acres of forest to be burned. The p value that they arrived at was around .25. Despite this, they were able to publish the paper tying global warming to forest fires. Then, I had to explain to my relative why the paper that they had from "experts" was not actually from "experts" and the data actually supported the alternative proposition, namely that there is no correlation between climate change and forest fires. Someone on this board recently posted an article about coronavirus written by a pediatrician (not about how coronavirus affects children, where she might have some expertise but just about coronavirus in general). How in the world that woman was an expert on anything coronavirus-related is still beyond me. In law, an expert's opinion can be helpful in coming to a conclusion, but an expert's opinion is never determinative as to what that conclusion is or should be. Experts often lack the background necessary to form the opinion that they are asserting. Moreover, Even if an expert has a background that would help form an opinion, an expert is human. He or she can be wrong. What I see all to often on here (and in the media) is someone citing to one expert without figuring out whether an expert knows what the heck he or she is talking about. They then compound that by basically asserting, "See, here is what an expert says." Further, that expert is usually only well-versed in one field and it ignores all of the other fields and the experts in those fields that should simultaneously be opining to give people the proper framework to evaluate the first expert's opinion. However, that rarely happens. Finally, no one is an expert on coronavirus. Experts may have knowledge superior to us about say SARS-1 and be able to form opinions based on such knowledge, but, outside of Dr. Fauci, I do not hear from any of them. They can base opinions based on their knowledge of how SARS-1 is like SARS-2 (coronavirus), but those two diseases' are very different with how each is spread. However, instead, I hear from pediatricians or statisticians or people with the title doctor that have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
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Post by ochobeavo on Jun 17, 2020 13:18:50 GMT -8
NPR opinion leans left however NPR news is generally graded as center. Same with PBS Here is where people struggle: COMMENTARY IS NOT NEWS. OPINION IS NOT NEWS. There is the idea of reporting the events, providing some context and understand to convey the ideas and then telling you an analysis of it. the analysis is not the news, but people tune in more to that than the news part. That is the issue. most people do not know what to think about something and lean towards "trusted sources" to be told what to think. NEWS (and news only) graded as center tend to be: AP, Bloomberg (again, news), BBC, Christian Science Monitor, NPR, Reuters, The Hill, USA today, Wall Street Journal. This is an aggregate list across several entities that use standard methods to rate bias. Of course, when it then comes to commentary, all of those move one direction or another. When graded for bias in commentary, NPR drifts to a left lean wereas Wall Street Journal drift right lean, for example. NY Times and WaPo leans about equally left and Fox News leans right for NEWS. Both lean further left and right, respectively for OPINION. The one thing I will credit both the NY Times with and WaPo is they both almost always indicate in their articles the article is "commentary" or "op-ed" historically Fox News does not tend to make these distinctions on their online content. In my opinion (and I have no problems admitting I am a dirty commie pinko bastard) I find that pretty unethical. I have zero problem with biased opinion and commentary. I have a huge problem with biased commentary masquerading as news. NPR/PBS is only considered closer to the center because the majority of our entertainment sources, print news media, and air wave news media are so far left. Fox's balanced reporting is the closest thing we have left to a central viewpoint. Just give me the facts man, not some facts, not misleading facts, but all the facts and I'll form my own opinion. I look more for what's not reported, than what is in order to determine who may or may not be credible and balanced. It would baffle me to find intelligent people who would disagree, unless they truly can not see through their own bias. They literally just got caught using misleading and digitally altered images but ok.
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Post by irimi on Jun 17, 2020 13:44:58 GMT -8
And all the food you buy is produced by a handful of companies, too. It is the nature of capitalism. Get more money and buy your competitors out until you are king of the hill. Yes, it is wise to consume your food and your news mindfully. Be aware of sensationalism and the like. The easiest answer to this is NPR and PBS which are anything but sensational news services. Plus, you have a ton of international choices as well. But when “thinking for yourself” involves ignoring experts, you have to start to wonder who is really just fooling themselves. Straw man's argument. I do not ignore true experts' opinions. But I never base my actions around what one "expert" says. And I never base my actions around what experts in one field say without stepping back and evaluating how it fits into the larger framework. I hire experts all the time, including infectious disease experts, and I depose experts all of the time, including infectious disease experts. A lot of "experts" are anything but. And usually an opinion costs a lot of money and is ultimately biased based upon who is paying for such opinion. Because, if the payor does not like an opinion, the payor will simply find a new expert to issue a second opinion, which will be the one that is published. By way of an example, I got into a discussion about global warming's impact upon climate change. I tend to believe in man-made global warming based upon experts and data; however, a lot of the corollary opinions related to climate change are nonsensical scare tactics advanced by "experts," masquerading as "science." I challenged a relative's assertion once that forest fires were related to climate change and the retort was here are what two "experts" have to say. I read the article and the data. First, the "experts" had no background in environmental science or forestry or anything of the sort. They were just statisticians. Second, in order for the statisticians to get a positive correlation between global warming and forest fires, they had to completely disregard the first half of the data. They gave no reason for doing so. Ignoring half of the data, they were able to show that global warming caused more acres of forest to be burned. The p value that they arrived at was around .25. Despite this, they were able to publish the paper tying global warming to forest fires. Then, I had to explain to my relative why the paper that they had from "experts" was not actually from "experts" and the data actually supported the alternative proposition, namely that there is no correlation between climate change and forest fires. Someone on this board recently posted an article about coronavirus written by a pediatrician (not about how coronavirus affects children, where she might have some expertise but just about coronavirus in general). How in the world that woman was an expert on anything coronavirus-related is still beyond me. In law, an expert's opinion can be helpful in coming to a conclusion, but an expert's opinion is never determinative as to what that conclusion is or should be. Experts often lack the background necessary to form the opinion that they are asserting. Moreover, Even if an expert has a background that would help form an opinion, an expert is human. He or she can be wrong. What I see all to often on here (and in the media) is someone citing to one expert without figuring out whether an expert knows what the heck he or she is talking about. They then compound that by basically asserting, "See, here is what an expert says." Further, that expert is usually only well-versed in one field and it ignores all of the other fields and the experts in those fields that should simultaneously be opining to give people the proper framework to evaluate the first expert's opinion. However, that rarely happens. Finally, no one is an expert on coronavirus. Experts may have knowledge superior to us about say SARS-1 and be able to form opinions based on such knowledge, but, outside of Dr. Fauci, I do not hear from any of them. They can base opinions based on their knowledge of how SARS-1 is like SARS-2 (coronavirus), but those two diseases' are very different with how each is spread. However, instead, I hear from pediatricians or statisticians or people with the title doctor that have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Obviously, due diligence is important. Too many people out there simply want to go against whatever the experts have told them. As an example, my son has been working for a radiation oncology unit, and in his time there he has seen patients come in who simply want to defy what the doctors have told them. “God told me that it will be OK if I stop.” “Oh, I read on the internet that the essential oils (or whatever) will cure my cancer.” People are idiots. You have one case: yourself. But your doctor has seen hundreds or thousands just like you. And he/she has read case after case of others just like you. The doctor has seen all sorts of things and from that he or she has chosen this path. But you think you know better. LOL Most people out there are just like this. I don’t need to wear a mask because X, Y, or Z. I’ve read on Facebook idiots who say that your CO2 gets caught in the mask and you’ll end up destroying your own immune system. LOL! And I just shake my head because people can’t remember basic chemistry—there’s not much smaller than CO2 and the virus is pretty damn big. This is why the Snopes site is alive and well. And essential oils. And any other snake oil remedy. But the problem with COVID is that people think we should think for ourselves about it. No. WE SHOULD NOT. There should be no choice about it; it shouldn’t be a political issue. Your life, my life, the economy, and my sports all hang in the balance. If we act and think as one, then we can defeat the virus and get things going again as quickly as possible. Like New Zealand. On the other hand, the radicals and the independent ones will jeopardize everything. It’s bizarre that it’s the conservatives who choose not to wear masks, since they are the ones who want the economy back as quickly as possible. No doubt the liberals do, too, but they tend to be less noisy about it. Just my thoughts....
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Post by irimi on Jun 17, 2020 13:53:18 GMT -8
And all the food you buy is produced by a handful of companies, too. It is the nature of capitalism. Get more money and buy your competitors out until you are king of the hill. Yes, it is wise to consume your food and your news mindfully. Be aware of sensationalism and the like. The easiest answer to this is NPR and PBS which are anything but sensational news services. Plus, you have a ton of international choices as well. But when “thinking for yourself” involves ignoring experts, you have to start to wonder who is really just fooling themselves. (SNIP) Someone on this board recently posted an article about coronavirus written by a pediatrician (not about how coronavirus affects children, where she might have some expertise but just about coronavirus in general). How in the world that woman was an expert on anything coronavirus-related is still beyond me. (SNIP) Finally, no one is an expert on coronavirus. Experts may have knowledge superior to us about say SARS-1 and be able to form opinions based on such knowledge, but, outside of Dr. Fauci, I do not hear from any of them. They can base opinions based on their knowledge of how SARS-1 is like SARS-2 (coronavirus), but those two diseases' are very different with how each is spread. However, instead, I hear from pediatricians or statisticians or people with the title doctor that have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. I completely agree with you about doctors speaking out of line. Recently, a hometown doc posted on FB that we are all good to go about our business and not wear masks. Just wash your hands and you’re good. What an idiot! Of course, not much could be expected from a UofO grad. Dr. Fauci works for me. He’s been involved with infectious diseases for a long time, and while COVID-19 may be new to us, he understands how they work well enough to offer the best advice for the time being. Why look for something else, UNLESS you don’t like what he’s saying. Sure, he may be wrong. Maybe we can go around and give each other sloppy kisses like the French and not get the disease. But since we know little about the disease, isn’t it more important to error on the side of caution? I guess that fits my personality better than yours.
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Post by irimi on Jun 17, 2020 13:55:39 GMT -8
When the U.S. economy was in the midst of breaking nearly all historical records for growth, joblessness, employment, and growth for all races and genders over a multiyear period, should that not be a repeating top story? Except none of this was true. There were numerous times in our history the economy grew at a faster rate. In fact, almost every single year under President Obama. Fox is so biased it borders on ridiculous. To call Fox a "neutral" news source defies credibility. It's not worth my time to attempt dialogue with someone who's not willing to accept simple historical facts. If not for the record investment and stock market growth since Trump took office, many liberal run states (some close to home wink, wink) PERs plans would have collapsed without MASSIVE tax increases and robbing money from necessary government programs. Trumps economy bailed liberal states out of finding themselves embroiled in bankruptcy and insolvency proceedings. Also, what about those manufacturing jobs Obama said were never coming back t the U.S. without a magic wand? Guess we found one!!! At what cost? You see, that’s the difficult part. Trump rolled back so many laws and restrictions that of course business is booming. I guess clean water and a healthy environment are less important than the almighty dollar.
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