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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 8, 2020 21:53:07 GMT -8
I am going to try really hard to keep this response from turning overly political and derailing the thread, but I gotta say what I gotta say. The lack of definitive and accurate information about COVID, and the lack of preparation, were the most significant factors in our response and the economic impact of the pandemic. While a myriad of factors are at play most of it boils down to one undeniable truth. The US of A failed to prepare itself from the inevitable, despite having 2-3 months to get ready. There is only one place to point to for that, and that is all I am going to say on the matter. The reality we are coming to as life is going on, as places are reopening, is with better data we are seeing a different picture of the disease. I want to stress it is still a dangerous disease, but some of the very scary stats it came with a couple months ago aren't nearly as bad. The list of those significantly at risk is narrowing to those with heart conditions (hypertension most importantly) and diabetes along with preexisting respiratory issues. As we our testing grows and we find more and more cases, yet hospitalizations are not growing, but in fact have fallen significantly to a steady state. Better preparation and better data likely would of made our remediation for the disease less disruptive. We wouldn't of had to focus a response of keeping hospitals below capacity, we wouldn't of had to shutdown a large portion of our health care system to preserve PPE (that was the major reason. to save masks and gowns, NOT to necessarily limit spread). For better or for worse, the US decided it was pretty over this COVID thing and started testing the waters, and so far it appears the world has not collapsed. It is worth noting that we are in our 11th day of protests in Portland, and there has not been a spike in hospitalizations yet in the region. Mean time to symptoms is still around 4-5 days, it is reasonable to assume if there was going to be a major spike from the protests, we would be seeing it already. We are not (so far, fingers crossed) The outbreaks we are having are workplace related. that is the majority of our new cases. Just recently announced is 61 new cases in the last couple days from a seafood cannery on the coast. When scanning the list of workplace outbreaks it doesn't take much to notice a trend. they are all canneries, warehouses or assembly line type places. all close quarters, all hourly wage labor jobs that fit the mold of "pays good, bad benefits". It is probably not a logic leap to reason many of these places do not have strong sick time policies and many may even have the reputation of firing you if you miss more than a few days. Sick people, that cannot afford to be sick, are coming to work and making other people sick. All of the above is to say, I am not entirely sure the data will shake out to defend cancelling football this year, and I am not sure the data will defend significant reductions in attendance (by that I mean, sub 50% capacity, lets be real, OSU is already running 75-80% capacity every game...thanks Anderpants...) Would I be surprised to see fans donning Orange masks? no, and I would encourage it. Would I be surprised to see some measure of limiting congregation? no, and I also would encourage it. Would I be surprised if OSU put limits on tailgating? no, and (don't hit me) I would probably encourage that too. But I would, right now, find it hard to justify calling the whole thing off. I think at the end of the day, the Governor knows what is at stake. The money situation is dire. the Economy is now in the driver seat, with the science in the backseat, yelling out that they are going too fast and to slow down... Governor is going to be listening more to the driver and to me that means football is played and likely with most of the fans. Remember, shutting down basketball wasn't her call. Nor was baseball. She didn't have to face the music of being the one stopping the events. With the NCAA and the Pac-12 more or less full steam ahead, she WOULD be the bottom line responsible party if football is disrupted. I am not sure she is a brave enough politician for that. Good stuff by and large. Still, when were those 2-3 months? Sorry, 2 months and a little spare change, reasonably. COVID outbreak was widely known to the intelligence community as early as November. Why I know it was widely known to them, is that is was being widely reported in epidemiology update services. ProMed, is one such service, that sends daily updates of disease test numbers across the globe. there were elevated case counts of a yet to be formalize outbreak of SARS like virus starting sporadically in November and growing to being reported daily in by December. This is not some super special, secret access thing. it is an open access email listserv... It was an official publicly declared outbreak December 31 by WHO. again, intelligence officials would of been quick to note two things concerning about the timing: The coming Chinese New Year celebrations in mid to late January as a super spreader event, and the fact that Wuhan was host to the 2019 Military War Games, the largest military athletic event in the world, hosting over 9,000 athletes from 110 countries over 10 days at the end of October. It is important to note that WHO does share some blame Trump is casting at them... they were slow. signs were there. China covered it up because of what I just said. Chinese New Year was coming, and there was no way on earth they were missing out on that cash cow. The simple task of acquiring several million more masks for a known respiratory disease, back in December, and the simple task of putting officials on alert to act, and plan... all of which could of been done on the down-low, would of gone a long way to preventing the chaos we saw. Like I mentioned before... if all the states simply had enough masks in the early days, elective medical procedures never would of been shut down... Elective/primary care/clinics are close to 70% of all health care spending, which itself is almost 20% of GDP. Huge blunder. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 8, 2020 22:04:46 GMT -8
The only other thing I will add here is my opinion is not colored by any general feelings of approval or disapproval for any leader including Trump. It is colored by what I know should of happened, what I know is commonly taught and drilled and planned to do, the systems that were put in place over years to be ready for an event like this. I do agree that any leader could of failed to do these things and indeed other powerful leaders in this country failed to adequately prepare as well. Though some were quicker to the party than others. Like I have said before, I do have a MPH in Epi. even though I don't currently work as one. But I also worked at a county health department before my state job, and specifically did a lot of work with emergency preparedness. I have had formal IC training, and have worked on issues of planning for all kinds of events, mostly of the pandemic kind but other mass casualty type things, and mostly around hospital surge planning and capacity planning. Of all the things the country built up from H1N1 in 2008 literally all of it was ignored. It is actually stunning when you size it all up how poorly this went in America. As I have mused before, this will be taught in public health classes for decades to come as examples of what not to do. there were two specific, high profile failures: delayed declaration of emergency and botched supply stockpile and distribution. I can go much more into both if we are bored. Delayed declaration of emergency? Two days after the WHO declared COVID-19 a pandemic, the United States declared an emergency. And the COVID-19 response team had already been in place for 44 days by that point. And to really entertain calling a delayed declaration of emergency a "failure," one would have to totally ignore Congress (especially the House) determining that wasting our money on political theatre was a more worthwhile endeavor than preparing the country for COVID-19. I would entertain a botched supply stockpile and distribution conversation. WHO was disastrously late as well. There were multiple confirmed cases of COVID in 27 different countries by January 31st... 64 countries by Feb 29. There is strong evidence COVID was in America in December, as well, from pathology being done on persons that died of respiratory failure in the first weeks of January. I believe it was the great Peter Venkman who said, in the Governor's office, "It was all of us working to together to screw this one up" |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 8, 2020 22:12:28 GMT -8
Good stuff by and large. Still, when were those 2-3 months? Sorry, 2 months and a little spare change, reasonably. COVID outbreak was widely known to the intelligence community as early as November. Why I know it was widely known to them, is that is was being widely reported in epidemiology update services. ProMed, is one such service, that sends daily updates of disease test numbers across the globe. there were elevated case counts of a yet to be formalize outbreak of SARS like virus starting sporadically in November and growing to being reported daily in by December. This is not some super special, secret access thing. it is an open access email listserv... It was an official publicly declared outbreak December 31 by WHO. again, intelligence officials would of been quick to note two things concerning about the timing: The coming Chinese New Year celebrations in mid to late January as a super spreader event, and the fact that Wuhan was host to the 2019 Military War Games, the largest military athletic event in the world, hosting over 9,000 athletes from 110 countries over 10 days at the end of October. It is important to note that WHO does share some blame Trump is casting at them... they were slow. signs were there. China covered it up because of what I just said. Chinese New Year was coming, and there was no way on earth they were missing out on that cash cow. The simple task of acquiring several million more masks for a known respiratory disease, back in December, and the simple task of putting officials on alert to act, and plan... all of which could of been done on the down-low, would of gone a long way to preventing the chaos we saw. Like I mentioned before... if all the states simply had enough masks in the early days, elective medical procedures never would of been shut down... Elective/primary care/clinics are close to 70% of all health care spending, which itself is almost 20% of GDP.
Huge blunder. The highlighted part is a great point. As for the rest, as late as January 14, 2020, the WHO tweeted: Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China. They even put the Chinese flag on the post, just for fun. China did not acknowledge that there was human-to-human transmission of COVID-19 until January 20, 2020. Nine days later, Trump had put together a coronavirus response team. Two days after that, Trump instituted a 14-day waiting period for all travel between China and the United States. That day, Biden called the move "hysterical xenophobia and fear mongering." More than two months later, Biden's campaign announced that they had flip flopped and "backed Trump's decision." And to say that the administration failed in anyway is to ignore the way that Congress (especially the House) deliberately tried to hamstring Trump at the exact wrong moment to be helpful to this country. If the intelligence failed, it failed both Congress and the President. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jun 8, 2020 22:20:38 GMT -8
The only other thing I will add here is my opinion is not colored by any general feelings of approval or disapproval for any leader including Trump. It is colored by what I know should of happened, what I know is commonly taught and drilled and planned to do, the systems that were put in place over years to be ready for an event like this. I do agree that any leader could of failed to do these things and indeed other powerful leaders in this country failed to adequately prepare as well. Though some were quicker to the party than others. Like I have said before, I do have a MPH in Epi. even though I don't currently work as one. But I also worked at a county health department before my state job, and specifically did a lot of work with emergency preparedness. I have had formal IC training, and have worked on issues of planning for all kinds of events, mostly of the pandemic kind but other mass casualty type things, and mostly around hospital surge planning and capacity planning. Of all the things the country built up from H1N1 in 2008 literally all of it was ignored. It is actually stunning when you size it all up how poorly this went in America. As I have mused before, this will be taught in public health classes for decades to come as examples of what not to do. there were two specific, high profile failures: delayed declaration of emergency and botched supply stockpile and distribution. I can go much more into both if we are bored. Delayed declaration of emergency? Two days after the WHO declared COVID-19 a pandemic, the United States declared an emergency. And the COVID-19 response team had already been in place for 44 days by that point. And to really entertain calling a delayed declaration of emergency a "failure," one would have to totally ignore Congress (especially the House) determining that wasting our money on political theatre was a more worthwhile endeavor than preparing the country for COVID-19. I would entertain a botched supply stockpile and distribution conversation. It amazes me when someone mentions the H1N1 pandemic and doesn't compare timelines between that pandemic and this one. Both Presidents declared public health emergencies within 1 day of the WHO public health emergency notification. After that everything changes. The WHO declared the H1N1 Pandemic on June 11th and the previous administration did not declare a National Health Emergency until October 24th, after over 1000 US citizens had died. Trump took 2 days to call the National Health Emergency, not the 4 and a half months the previous administration waited to declare theirs. Thing is, this virus spread much much faster than H1N1, you really can't compare the two. This nation had never faced something this virulent (for lack of a better word at the moment). The US was not prepared and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts much of what was in place really didn't apply to a virus of this nature. Heck, we're not a full 3 months into the pandemic declaration and they're still debating on how this thing is spreading (see the recent WHO declaration dismissing asymptomatic spread). People need to drop blame game (other than the initial failure to report in the country of origin) and be more amazed at how far and fast this disease has spread, and how far and fast the entire world has come in dealing with it. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 8, 2020 22:26:31 GMT -8
Delayed declaration of emergency? Two days after the WHO declared COVID-19 a pandemic, the United States declared an emergency. And the COVID-19 response team had already been in place for 44 days by that point. And to really entertain calling a delayed declaration of emergency a "failure," one would have to totally ignore Congress (especially the House) determining that wasting our money on political theatre was a more worthwhile endeavor than preparing the country for COVID-19. I would entertain a botched supply stockpile and distribution conversation. WHO was disastrously late as well. There were multiple confirmed cases of COVID in 27 different countries by January 31st... 64 countries by Feb 29. There is strong evidence COVID was in America in December, as well, from pathology being done on persons that died of respiratory failure in the first weeks of January. I believe it was the great Peter Venkman who said, in the Governor's office, "It was all of us working to together to screw this one up" I don't remember Venkman talking to the Governor. I remember the Mayor's office thing, but I can't recall that quote. I have always been fond of Doug "Sir Swish" Remer's quote from Baseketball: |
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Post by green85 on Jun 9, 2020 6:02:53 GMT -8
I know I'm on the wrong board to be saying this, but I really fear for our young men. I am not convinced that we should have football this year, especially at the college level where kids don't have the money, status, or support to cope with a pandemic. Pros, on the other hand, they can make up their own minds. I reserve the right to change my opinion, however. If the NBA restarts as seems likely, it will be interesting to see what develops. What a crappy time to be a athlete in college! For those between the ages of 18-44, the death rate for coronavirus is 199 out of a million, 0.0199%, around a 5,024:1 shot. A selection of things that are more dangerous to people under the age of 45 than coronavirus: Depression/suicide Drug overdoses Motor vehicle accidents Falls Being struck by an automobile while bicycling or walking Drowning Choking on food And these are not your typical 18-44 year-olds but athletes who are in their late teens and early 20s. Coronavirus can be very bad for those over the age of 45 or those with pre-existing conditions, but 18-26 year-old athletes? C'mon now. Coronavirus isn't exactly the Spanish Flu. The vulnerable are the folks you identified. But the point is that once a person is carrying the virus they can infect others. Which means if an athlete tests positive, they may have already spread the virus to others and certainly for multiple days after diagnosis can infect others (part of the reason for 14 day quarantine). So while the risk to the health of the athlete is limited, the risk to everyone else in his or her circle is high. Which means that athlete could spread it to someone who could spread it to another person who then have direct contact with a person in the vulnerable population - and that person could be at a much higher risk of death than 0.0199%. I am in fear of the spread. I don't have a large fear that the virus will kill millions of 18 - 40 year old folks. The more you can control the spread, the better the chance to prevent the virus from reaching an at risk person. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jun 9, 2020 6:28:21 GMT -8
For those between the ages of 18-44, the death rate for coronavirus is 199 out of a million, 0.0199%, around a 5,024:1 shot. A selection of things that are more dangerous to people under the age of 45 than coronavirus: Depression/suicide Drug overdoses Motor vehicle accidents Falls Being struck by an automobile while bicycling or walking Drowning Choking on food And these are not your typical 18-44 year-olds but athletes who are in their late teens and early 20s. Coronavirus can be very bad for those over the age of 45 or those with pre-existing conditions, but 18-26 year-old athletes? C'mon now. Coronavirus isn't exactly the Spanish Flu. The vulnerable are the folks you identified. But the point is that once a person is carrying the virus they can infect others. Which means if an athlete tests positive, they may have already spread the virus to others and certainly for multiple days after diagnosis can infect others (part of the reason for 14 day quarantine). So while the risk to the health of the athlete is limited, the risk to everyone else in his or her circle is high. Which means that athlete could spread it to someone who could spread it to another person who then have direct contact with a person in the vulnerable population - and that person could be at a much higher risk of death than 0.0199%. I am in fear of the spread. I don't have a large fear that the virus will kill millions of 18 - 40 year old folks. The more you can control the spread, the better the chance to prevent the virus from reaching an at risk person. Who says you’re wrong? The WHO, that’s who. www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 9, 2020 7:00:54 GMT -8
WHO was disastrously late as well. There were multiple confirmed cases of COVID in 27 different countries by January 31st... 64 countries by Feb 29. There is strong evidence COVID was in America in December, as well, from pathology being done on persons that died of respiratory failure in the first weeks of January. I believe it was the great Peter Venkman who said, in the Governor's office, "It was all of us working to together to screw this one up" I don't remember Venkman talking to the Governor. I remember the Mayor's office thing, but I can't recall that quote. I have always been fond of Doug "Sir Swish" Remer's quote from Baseketball: Good chance I misappropriated that quote. i could of sworn he said it after Ray mentioned Peck turned of the containment field... but I am probably wrong. |
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Post by nabeav on Jun 9, 2020 7:14:41 GMT -8
I'm not saying the WHO is wrong because I don't understand this stuff that well at all, but maybe atownbeaver or someone else could help me out here: If asympomatic/presymptomatic people are not spreading new infections, how does something like the Pacific Seafoods thing happen where they say 95% of the people testing positive aren't showing symptoms? The 6 people with the sniffles infected 120 others? So if one sick person is spreading it to 19 healthy people....that seems like a problem if you're going to sit 1,000s of people in a location for four straight hours....especially because I guarantee some person with a mild fever and subtle cough is not gonna want to break their streak of 150 consecutive home games attended. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 9, 2020 7:34:30 GMT -8
Sorry, 2 months and a little spare change, reasonably. COVID outbreak was widely known to the intelligence community as early as November. Why I know it was widely known to them, is that is was being widely reported in epidemiology update services. ProMed, is one such service, that sends daily updates of disease test numbers across the globe. there were elevated case counts of a yet to be formalize outbreak of SARS like virus starting sporadically in November and growing to being reported daily in by December. This is not some super special, secret access thing. it is an open access email listserv... It was an official publicly declared outbreak December 31 by WHO. again, intelligence officials would of been quick to note two things concerning about the timing: The coming Chinese New Year celebrations in mid to late January as a super spreader event, and the fact that Wuhan was host to the 2019 Military War Games, the largest military athletic event in the world, hosting over 9,000 athletes from 110 countries over 10 days at the end of October. It is important to note that WHO does share some blame Trump is casting at them... they were slow. signs were there. China covered it up because of what I just said. Chinese New Year was coming, and there was no way on earth they were missing out on that cash cow. The simple task of acquiring several million more masks for a known respiratory disease, back in December, and the simple task of putting officials on alert to act, and plan... all of which could of been done on the down-low, would of gone a long way to preventing the chaos we saw. Like I mentioned before... if all the states simply had enough masks in the early days, elective medical procedures never would of been shut down... Elective/primary care/clinics are close to 70% of all health care spending, which itself is almost 20% of GDP.
Huge blunder. The highlighted part is a great point. As for the rest, as late as January 14, 2020, the WHO tweeted: Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China. They even put the Chinese flag on the post, just for fun. China did not acknowledge that there was human-to-human transmission of COVID-19 until January 20, 2020. Nine days later, Trump had put together a coronavirus response team. Two days after that, Trump instituted a 14-day waiting period for all travel between China and the United States. That day, Biden called the move "hysterical xenophobia and fear mongering." More than two months later, Biden's campaign announced that they had flip flopped and "backed Trump's decision." And to say that the administration failed in anyway is to ignore the way that Congress (especially the House) deliberately tried to hamstring Trump at the exact wrong moment to be helpful to this country. If the intelligence failed, it failed both Congress and the President.We have a hospital in our state that started stockpiling supplies in December because they got wind of (soon to be named) COVID. Sure, they are a shining example of a superstar... They literally are the only one, but it should terrify all of us if a smallish hospital chain of saw what was coming and our entire intelligence community did not. Of course I have no idea what is in our intelligence reports. No clue. All I can say is what the numerous red flags everywhere were saying. And yes I hear you when you are saying "but the WHO only...." but the WHO got all of this wrong as well, and I hate to say it, they got it wrong because China is running WHO now (which is why I oppose de funding them, it is a multinational organization we just officially handed to China...). China had an economic orientated response, with a key strategy of "hide it". related fun fact to throw into this, a report coming out of Harvard is claiming COVID was ramping up in August, based on satellite imaging of hospitals in Wuhan, that who a significant increase of traffic going to the hospitals, and staying elevated. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 9, 2020 7:43:47 GMT -8
I'm not saying the WHO is wrong because I don't understand this stuff that well at all, but maybe atownbeaver or someone else could help me out here: If asympomatic/presymptomatic people are not spreading new infections, how does something like the Pacific Seafoods thing happen where they say 95% of the people testing positive aren't showing symptoms? The 6 people with the sniffles infected 120 others? So if one sick person is spreading it to 19 healthy people....that seems like a problem if you're going to sit 1,000s of people in a location for four straight hours... .especially because I guarantee some person with a mild fever and subtle cough is not gonna want to break their streak of 150 consecutive home games attended.It is that the report and WHO is claiming asymptomatic people are not a major source of spread, not that it is impossible. That the viral load in asymptomatic people are low enough, the body is fighting it well enough that you just aren't shedding the quantity of virus needed to spread to others (generally speaking). What WHO is trying to say is that in the large picture, asymptomatic people are not a significant risk if general safe practices are followed. WHO needs to work on it's messaging... as a general comment. They have screwed up a bunch of things recently. They need a new social media person. I do not know the conditions at Pacific Seafoods, but I imagine there are 124 infections because it is 8 or 12 hour shifts of very close quarters, I also imagine a good number of them like to set out on the docks and smoke together, standing close enough to talk and exhaling on to one another repeatedly... (pure conjecture). and it is possible, if the quarters and contact is close enough, that only 5 or 6 really sick people did all the damage. It is also possible, like at another worksite (amazon? I think so...) the outbreak occurred among people living together, or at least was helped by that. As for your bold comment. Yes. 100%. personal responsibility is of the up most importance at this point. |
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Post by ochobeavo on Jun 9, 2020 8:59:10 GMT -8
I'm not saying the WHO is wrong because I don't understand this stuff that well at all, but maybe atownbeaver or someone else could help me out here: If asympomatic/presymptomatic people are not spreading new infections, how does something like the Pacific Seafoods thing happen where they say 95% of the people testing positive aren't showing symptoms? The 6 people with the sniffles infected 120 others? So if one sick person is spreading it to 19 healthy people....that seems like a problem if you're going to sit 1,000s of people in a location for four straight hours... .especially because I guarantee some person with a mild fever and subtle cough is not gonna want to break their streak of 150 consecutive home games attended.It is that the report and WHO is claiming asymptomatic people are not a major source of spread, not that it is impossible. That the viral load in asymptomatic people are low enough, the body is fighting it well enough that you just aren't shedding the quantity of virus needed to spread to others (generally speaking). What WHO is trying to say is that in the large picture, asymptomatic people are not a significant risk if general safe practices are followed. WHO needs to work on it's messaging... as a general comment. They have screwed up a bunch of things recently. They need a new social media person. I do not know the conditions at Pacific Seafoods, but I imagine there are 124 infections because it is 8 or 12 hour shifts of very close quarters, I also imagine a good number of them like to set out on the docks and smoke together, standing close enough to talk and exhaling on to one another repeatedly... (pure conjecture). and it is possible, if the quarters and contact is close enough, that only 5 or 6 really sick people did all the damage. It is also possible, like at another worksite (amazon? I think so...) the outbreak occurred among people living together, or at least was helped by that. As for your bold comment. Yes. 100%. personal responsibility is of the up most importance at this point. Have seen a couple of outbreaks at various food processors that I used to work with and it seems to stem from not having a comprehensive plan in place - companies are addressing the obvious: making the workers wear PPE and social distance on the production floor, but then they all end up using the same breakroom or bathroom or end up handling the same equipment or documents, etc. All seems pretty basic and obvious after the fact, but unfortunately there's a whole lot of learning the hard way going on. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jun 9, 2020 9:14:13 GMT -8
I'm not saying the WHO is wrong because I don't understand this stuff that well at all, but maybe atownbeaver or someone else could help me out here: If asympomatic/presymptomatic people are not spreading new infections, how does something like the Pacific Seafoods thing happen where they say 95% of the people testing positive aren't showing symptoms? The 6 people with the sniffles infected 120 others? So if one sick person is spreading it to 19 healthy people....that seems like a problem if you're going to sit 1,000s of people in a location for four straight hours....especially because I guarantee some person with a mild fever and subtle cough is not gonna want to break their streak of 150 consecutive home games attended. The obvious answer is that people went to work sick and didn't say anything. I'm guessing many didn't want to miss a paycheck. Perhaps some were not eligible for unemployment plus $600. As Atown said, pure conjecture on my part. And sniffles aren't a symptom by the way. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jun 9, 2020 9:57:08 GMT -8
I'm not saying the WHO is wrong because I don't understand this stuff that well at all, but maybe atownbeaver or someone else could help me out here: If asympomatic/presymptomatic people are not spreading new infections, how does something like the Pacific Seafoods thing happen where they say 95% of the people testing positive aren't showing symptoms? The 6 people with the sniffles infected 120 others? So if one sick person is spreading it to 19 healthy people....that seems like a problem if you're going to sit 1,000s of people in a location for four straight hours....especially because I guarantee some person with a mild fever and subtle cough is not gonna want to break their streak of 150 consecutive home games attended. The obvious answer is that people went to work sick and didn't say anything. I'm guessing many didn't want to miss a paycheck. Perhaps some were not eligible for unemployment plus $600. As Atown said, pure conjecture on my part. And sniffles aren't a symptom by the way. Somewhere in my long winded rambling posts was "sick people that cannot afford to be sick, coming to work getting other people sick" I am doubtful a place like Pacific Seafood offers a generous sick leave package. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jun 9, 2020 10:19:27 GMT -8
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