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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 9, 2020 20:59:29 GMT -8
No but we have spent huge amounts of money to make cars safer - between the opioid crisis and the deaths from Covid, the average life expectancy is going to drop in the US - a coordinated national response that avoided making simple things like masks political instead of medical would have made a huge difference. But as is attributed to Stalin, et al, "One death is a tragedy, 350,000 by the end of the year from Covid is a statistic" How do you know it would have made a huge difference? We’ve spent 2 trillion on Covid, and will probably easily spend a trillion more. The United States is unique, uniquely large, uniquely free, uniquely diverse, there is no way to compare outcomes in other countries with the outcome in the United States, and no way to know what different policies might have done, and who would have had the balls to even try different national policies on a country the size of the U.S. Don’t forget that some politicians from the party out of power were complaining that banning flights from Asian countries was racist, and were on TV begging people to come to dinner in china town a week before the crap hit the fan. My guess is any politician would have struggled mightily to contain Covid in a unique country like the U.S. and this isn’t meant as a defense of Trump, didnt vote for him so no skin in that game. Just my honest assessment of the difficulty of the problem. We spent $2 trillion almost exclusively on economic relief, not necessarily prevention, per se. We are actually getting back to having PPE issues nationwide again due to the surge. we need to be careful because elective procedures are on the verge of shutting back down. If the use just mixed the current level of social distancing with a mask mandate, and did that back in March, evenly applied across the US. I don't think we have a fraction of the cases and I don't think we have a fraction of the economic devastation. Just my opinion. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 9, 2020 22:34:13 GMT -8
How do you know it would have made a huge difference? We’ve spent 2 trillion on Covid, and will probably easily spend a trillion more. The United States is unique, uniquely large, uniquely free, uniquely diverse, there is no way to compare outcomes in other countries with the outcome in the United States, and no way to know what different policies might have done, and who would have had the balls to even try different national policies on a country the size of the U.S. Don’t forget that some politicians from the party out of power were complaining that banning flights from Asian countries was racist, and were on TV begging people to come to dinner in china town a week before the crap hit the fan. My guess is any politician would have struggled mightily to contain Covid in a unique country like the U.S. and this isn’t meant as a defense of Trump, didnt vote for him so no skin in that game. Just my honest assessment of the difficulty of the problem. We spent $2 trillion almost exclusively on economic relief, not necessarily prevention, per se. We are actually getting back to having PPE issues nationwide again due to the surge. we need to be careful because elective procedures are on the verge of shutting back down. If the use just mixed the current level of social distancing with a mask mandate, and did that back in March, evenly applied across the US. I don't think we have a fraction of the cases and I don't think we have a fraction of the economic devastation. Just my opinion. We've probably never had the PPE to handle this type of event. Supposedly the previous administration used up something like 80-ish million masks from the national stockpile in '09 and Congress never allotted money to replace it. A big chunk of what we had left was expired. Thing is, I've seen numbers 3.5 billion and higher thrown out as the amount of masks we needed to handlethis pandemic. Supposedly US hospitals typically burn through 70-85 million masks a year. Basically we potentially needed about 35-45 years worth of masks this year. It's a fricken mess. Hindsight is 2020 and things always could have been done better, and still can, but as others have alluded to, this country has so many people (on all sides of the political spectrum) that are so hung up on individual liberties no matter what mandate is put out there will be people fighting it. I agree that action back in March could have really affected today's numbers, but heck, we still have people fighting social distancing and masks now. As late as February 29th Fauci said he saw no immediate need for social distancing. Change happens slowly in this country sometimes. |
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Post by beaverdude on Jul 10, 2020 5:57:33 GMT -8
We've probably never had the PPE to handle this type of event. Supposedly the previous administration used up something like 80-ish million masks from the national stockpile in '09 and Congress never allotted money to replace it. A big chunk of what we had left was expired. Thing is, I've seen numbers 3.5 billion and higher thrown out as the amount of masks we needed to handlethis pandemic. Supposedly US hospitals typically burn through 70-85 million masks a year. Basically we potentially needed about 35-45 years worth of masks this year. It's a fricken mess. Hindsight is 2020 and things always could have been done better, and still can, but as others have alluded to, this country has so many people (on all sides of the political spectrum) that are so hung up on individual liberties no matter what mandate is put out there will be people fighting it. I agree that action back in March could have really affected today's numbers, but heck, we still have people fighting social distancing and masks now. As late as February 29th Fauci said he saw no immediate need for social distancing. Change happens slowly in this country sometimes. I work for a company that supplies dentists and PPE has been almost impossible to acquire in sufficient quantities since the lock down started i March. The vast majority of manufacturers are outside the US and their governments have "reserved" most of their production for local use. To make matters worse, scammers (criminals) have taken advantage of PPE shortages to create and distribute fake masks and other PPE. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 10, 2020 7:49:25 GMT -8
We spent $2 trillion almost exclusively on economic relief, not necessarily prevention, per se. We are actually getting back to having PPE issues nationwide again due to the surge. we need to be careful because elective procedures are on the verge of shutting back down. If the use just mixed the current level of social distancing with a mask mandate, and did that back in March, evenly applied across the US. I don't think we have a fraction of the cases and I don't think we have a fraction of the economic devastation. Just my opinion. A big chunk of what we had left was expired. Thing is, I've seen numbers 3.5 billion and higher thrown out as the amount of masks we needed to handlethis pandemic. Supposedly US hospitals typically burn through 70-85 million masks a year. Basically we potentially needed about 35-45 years worth of masks this year. It's a fricken mess. Hindsight is 2020 and things always could have been done better, and still can, but as others have alluded to, this country has so many people (on all sides of the political spectrum) that are so hung up on individual liberties no matter what mandate is put out there will be people fighting it. I agree that action back in March could have really affected today's numbers, but heck, we still have people fighting social distancing and masks now. As late as February 29th Fauci said he saw no immediate need for social distancing. Change happens slowly in this country sometimes. That is not true. The pandemic and all hazards preparedness re authorization act of 2013 (HR 307 of the 113th congress) allocated $11 billion over FY's 2014 - 2018 to restock and replenish the SNS. even more fun facts, it was a republican sponsored bill, unanimously passed the senate and passed the house on a 370-28 vote. As for H1N1, during the entire event, the SNS used up only 25% of it's mask stores. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 10, 2020 8:38:16 GMT -8
We've probably never had the PPE to handle this type of event. Supposedly the previous administration used up something like 80-ish million masks from the national stockpile in '09 and Congress never allotted money to replace it. A big chunk of what we had left was expired. Thing is, I've seen numbers 3.5 billion and higher thrown out as the amount of masks we needed to handlethis pandemic. Supposedly US hospitals typically burn through 70-85 million masks a year. Basically we potentially needed about 35-45 years worth of masks this year. It's a fricken mess. Hindsight is 2020 and things always could have been done better, and still can, but as others have alluded to, this country has so many people (on all sides of the political spectrum) that are so hung up on individual liberties no matter what mandate is put out there will be people fighting it. I agree that action back in March could have really affected today's numbers, but heck, we still have people fighting social distancing and masks now. As late as February 29th Fauci said he saw no immediate need for social distancing. Change happens slowly in this country sometimes. That is not true. The pandemic and all hazards preparedness re authorization act of 2013 (HR 307 of the 113th congress) allocated $11 billion over FY's 2014 - 2018 to restock and replenish the SNS. even more fun facts, it was a republican sponsored bill, unanimously passed the senate and passed the house on a 370-28 vote. As for H1N1, during the entire event, the SNS used up only 25% of it's mask stores. I’m going off articles like this - www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-were-running-out-of-masks-in-the-coronavirus-crisis/609757/I was trying to give the Obama administration a pass on the blame for not refilling the stockpile, but you’ve pointed out Congress allocated the money. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Jul 10, 2020 11:48:05 GMT -8
That is not true. The pandemic and all hazards preparedness re authorization act of 2013 (HR 307 of the 113th congress) allocated $11 billion over FY's 2014 - 2018 to restock and replenish the SNS. even more fun facts, it was a republican sponsored bill, unanimously passed the senate and passed the house on a 370-28 vote. As for H1N1, during the entire event, the SNS used up only 25% of it's mask stores. I’m going off articles like this - www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-were-running-out-of-masks-in-the-coronavirus-crisis/609757/I was trying to give the Obama administration a pass on the blame for not refilling the stockpile, but you’ve pointed out Congress allocated the money. We’re 3+ years into the current administration. None of the current difficulties are the fault of the previous administration. |
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Post by mbabeav on Jul 10, 2020 12:40:35 GMT -8
We've probably never had the PPE to handle this type of event. Supposedly the previous administration used up something like 80-ish million masks from the national stockpile in '09 and Congress never allotted money to replace it. A big chunk of what we had left was expired. Thing is, I've seen numbers 3.5 billion and higher thrown out as the amount of masks we needed to handlethis pandemic. Supposedly US hospitals typically burn through 70-85 million masks a year. Basically we potentially needed about 35-45 years worth of masks this year. It's a fricken mess. Hindsight is 2020 and things always could have been done better, and still can, but as others have alluded to, this country has so many people (on all sides of the political spectrum) that are so hung up on individual liberties no matter what mandate is put out there will be people fighting it. I agree that action back in March could have really affected today's numbers, but heck, we still have people fighting social distancing and masks now. As late as February 29th Fauci said he saw no immediate need for social distancing. Change happens slowly in this country sometimes. That is not true. The pandemic and all hazards preparedness re authorization act of 2013 (HR 307 of the 113th congress) allocated $11 billion over FY's 2014 - 2018 to restock and replenish the SNS. even more fun facts, it was a republican sponsored bill, unanimously passed the senate and passed the house on a 370-28 vote. As for H1N1, during the entire event, the SNS used up only 25% of it's mask stores. I would like to point out that what they planned to buy is a: A drop in the bucket compared to what we need, and b: given that the method of acquisition is to contract out the low cost supplier overseas, suddenly the governments of said suppliers have blocked exporting because they find that they need the stuff at home. This debate about whether we would have had 10% or 20% of what we needed in the first go around is sort of moot now. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 10, 2020 13:12:32 GMT -8
That is not true. The pandemic and all hazards preparedness re authorization act of 2013 (HR 307 of the 113th congress) allocated $11 billion over FY's 2014 - 2018 to restock and replenish the SNS. even more fun facts, it was a republican sponsored bill, unanimously passed the senate and passed the house on a 370-28 vote. As for H1N1, during the entire event, the SNS used up only 25% of it's mask stores. I’m going off articles like this - www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-were-running-out-of-masks-in-the-coronavirus-crisis/609757/I was trying to give the Obama administration a pass on the blame for not refilling the stockpile, but you’ve pointed out Congress allocated the money. The disconnect is between authorizing... and doing. And I do find it interesting the article maintains funding dried up, when it is public record funding was reauthorized and appropriated over multiple fiscal years, and at least through the end of the Obama years, the budget consolidation acts contained line item spending for the SNS. I would agree there was likely an issue with prioritization of what was purchased, however. the priorities of the SNS were more informed by recent natural disaster events and potential for terrorist attacks. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 10, 2020 13:24:36 GMT -8
We’re 3+ years into the current administration. None of the current difficulties are the fault of the previous administration. The point I'm trying to get across is that when a country that uses 70-85 million n-95 masks a year suddenly needs billions of masks, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. There is no magic wand that any administration can wave and suddenly create what does not exist. By the end of the year they'll probably get there. I'm not blaming any administration for our PPE shortage. The US has been prepared for a bombing or a hurricane/storm that affects regions, not a pandemic disease where the existing protocol requires exchange and disposal of single use PPE between every patient. |
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