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Post by seastape on Mar 25, 2020 11:15:45 GMT -8
Tinkle and Kelley leaving make it likely we will have a downturn next year, but there is some hope. Thompson seems to be coming back and he's a legitimate Pac 12 starter. Hunt is athletic and had the second best 3-point percentage on the team this year (.360 to Reichle's .368 in Pac 12 play); he just needs to calm down a little and let the game come to him more. Lucas can score in bunches and has some athleticism, as well. Tucker is fairly athletic. Reichle can provide some steady minutes and does things on the floor that are not always reflected in the stat box. Miller-Moore is athletic. Development and time to gel is needed.
Tinkle was likely our best player three of the four full years he played (not the year GP II was on the team), but he had some issues this year that the team may be able to improve on--such as a low shooting percentage (.376 FG, .264 3pt in Pac 12 play) that reflected a tendency to try to do too much at times. Maybe the team will be more of a team.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Mar 25, 2020 15:05:24 GMT -8
Next years team will be picked to finish near or at the bottom of the conference. I am afraid the program peaked under WT 2 years ago with the 3 coaches kids.
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Post by irimi on Mar 25, 2020 15:37:11 GMT -8
Next years team will be picked to finish near or at the bottom of the conference. I am afraid the program peaked under WT 2 years ago with the 3 coaches kids. But that’s what a lot of people around here wanted.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Mar 25, 2020 22:54:18 GMT -8
Franklin was the best Frosh they signed... dominated practice at times. RS because he plays where Tres did and had some academic pressures. We'll see, but betting he's starting somewhere. I have heard good things about Franklin too and know it was his decision to RS this year because of him and Tres playing the same position.
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Post by beaverinohio on Mar 26, 2020 9:23:46 GMT -8
Franklin was the best Frosh they signed... dominated practice at times. RS because he plays where Tres did and had some academic pressures. We'll see, but betting he's starting somewhere. I have heard good things about Franklin too and know it was his decision to RS this year because of him and Tres playing the same position. Glad to hear the good reports on Franklin. Says a lot about the kid that he chose to RS knowing he wasn’t going to get much time. Hopefully he’s got everything squared away and can really help next year. As far as starters, I think Tucker could well start. I wouldn’t have a problem with Tucker, Franklin, Hollins, Ethan and Lucas starting. I like Zach off the bench, but could see him starting. All that said, I think right now the only player that should get 30+ minutes on a regular basis is Ethan. Depending on matchups, I’d like to see Ethan play some 1, 2, and 3 — leaving plenty of time for Hunt and Lucas.
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Post by mbabeav on Mar 26, 2020 10:59:47 GMT -8
I have heard good things about Franklin too and know it was his decision to RS this year because of him and Tres playing the same position. Glad to hear the good reports on Franklin. Says a lot about the kid that he chose to RS knowing he wasn’t going to get much time. Hopefully he’s got everything squared away and can really help next year. As far as starters, I think Tucker could well start. I wouldn’t have a problem with Tucker, Franklin, Hollins, Ethan and Lucas starting. I like Zach off the bench, but could see him starting. All that said, I think right now the only player that should get 30+ minutes on a regular basis is Ethan. Depending on matchups, I’d like to see Ethan play some 1, 2, and 3 — leaving plenty of time for Hunt and Lucas. I think Lucas, sort of like Kevin Able, came into his own late in the season. He should be the starting #2 come next season IMO
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 26, 2020 11:30:22 GMT -8
Glad to hear the good reports on Franklin. Says a lot about the kid that he chose to RS knowing he wasn’t going to get much time. Hopefully he’s got everything squared away and can really help next year. As far as starters, I think Tucker could well start. I wouldn’t have a problem with Tucker, Franklin, Hollins, Ethan and Lucas starting. I like Zach off the bench, but could see him starting. All that said, I think right now the only player that should get 30+ minutes on a regular basis is Ethan. Depending on matchups, I’d like to see Ethan play some 1, 2, and 3 — leaving plenty of time for Hunt and Lucas. I think Lucas, sort of like Kevin Able, came into his own late in the season. He should be the starting #2 come next season IMO People are putting a lot of stock in a guy that didn't play a lick of D, played over 20 min in only 5 games (none of the last 5... 14.7 min/g over last 10). When he did play he shot .351/.342, scored 147 total points with 47 (33%) from the line, 0.9 rebs and 0.4 assists per game. Since the Furd output of 21 his last 10 games were worse than the season stats, .325/.371... and only (1) two pt FG in his last 40 attempts. Lucas is a one-trick pony, bench guy that stays in as long as he brings some offense, otherwise he's a defensive liability and a black hole with 3 total assists over his last 10 games, and 12 over the 31 played. For those who don't like Zach starting he's a far more complete player than Lucas. Folks just love the long ball and seem to forget the rest. But, all this talk of starting lineups/players just advances how weak our roster/recruiting really is/has been. For OSU to even compete for a 9-9 type record ET will have to score 4-6 more points per game and 4-5 players will have to become substantially better. Not one or two... 4 or 5. When you have ONE Pac12 quality starter returning you'd better have great player development providing depth, and great schemes offensively and defensively. How many of those do we have?
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 26, 2020 12:53:12 GMT -8
In 2018-19 we were better than 19-20 because we had Stevie. In 19-20 we will have been better than 2o-21 because we had tres. Not hard to figure out. Recruiting has not replaced the players that are gone. In addition have no big to replace Kelley.
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rafer
Sophomore
Posts: 1,563
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Post by rafer on Mar 26, 2020 13:10:48 GMT -8
I think Lucas, sort of like Kevin Able, came into his own late in the season. He should be the starting #2 come next season IMO People are putting a lot of stock in a guy that didn't play a lick of D, played over 20 min in only 5 games (none of the last 5... 14.7 min/g over last 10). When he did play he shot .351/.342, scored 147 total points with 47 (33%) from the line, 0.9 rebs and 0.4 assists per game. Since the Furd output of 21 his last 10 games were worse than the season stats, .325/.371... and only (1) two pt FG in his last 40 attempts. Lucas is a one-trick pony, bench guy that stays in as long as he brings some offense, otherwise he's a defensive liability and a black hole with 3 total assists over his last 10 games, and 12 over the 31 played. For those who don't like Zach starting he's a far more complete player than Lucas. Folks just love the long ball and seem to forget the rest. But, all this talk of starting lineups/players just advances how weak our roster/recruiting really is/has been. For OSU to even compete for a 9-9 type record ET will have to score 4-6 more points per game and 4-5 players will have to become substantially better. Not one or two... 4 or 5. When you have ONE Pac12 quality starter returning you'd better have great player development providing depth, and great schemes offensively and defensively. How many of those do we have? Lucas wasn't put in to play D, his "one trick" was to score when WT put him in the game, and if hot, he can score a bunch in a hurry. Not worried about his D, for a rookie, it was ok, passable, certainly not great, but you can see that he cares about it. Not everybody can gun it like he can, you NEED some of these guys on the team, you can't win 2-0 with great D. He will get more minutes next year I'm betting. If you think he shouldn't be playing PAC12 BB, or is a liability for the team, tell WT.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 26, 2020 13:50:54 GMT -8
People are putting a lot of stock in a guy that didn't play a lick of D, played over 20 min in only 5 games (none of the last 5... 14.7 min/g over last 10). When he did play he shot .351/.342, scored 147 total points with 47 (33%) from the line, 0.9 rebs and 0.4 assists per game. Since the Furd output of 21 his last 10 games were worse than the season stats, .325/.371... and only (1) two pt FG in his last 40 attempts. Lucas is a one-trick pony, bench guy that stays in as long as he brings some offense, otherwise he's a defensive liability and a black hole with 3 total assists over his last 10 games, and 12 over the 31 played. For those who don't like Zach starting he's a far more complete player than Lucas. Folks just love the long ball and seem to forget the rest. But, all this talk of starting lineups/players just advances how weak our roster/recruiting really is/has been. For OSU to even compete for a 9-9 type record ET will have to score 4-6 more points per game and 4-5 players will have to become substantially better. Not one or two... 4 or 5. When you have ONE Pac12 quality starter returning you'd better have great player development providing depth, and great schemes offensively and defensively. How many of those do we have? Lucas wasn't put in to play D, his "one trick" was to score when WT put him in the game, and if hot, he can score a bunch in a hurry. Not worried about his D, for a rookie, it was ok, passable, certainly not great, but you can see that he cares about it. Not everybody can gun it like he can, you NEED some of these guys on the team, you can't win 2-0 with great D. He will get more minutes next year I'm betting. If you think he shouldn't be playing PAC12 BB, or is a liability for the team, tell WT. Well... if you're a one-trick pony you better be great at your specialty... he's not. OSU ranked #209 in 3 pt shooting % with him, 0.4% higher than 2018. And, as far as "not many"... actually MANY can. He's not in the top 80 nationally in %... not in the top 20 in the Pac12. Hmmmm... safe bets your thing? Betting on him getting more minutes, as a sophomore.... on this roster... seems like a VERY safe bet. But, has little to do with his shooting prowess. And, your "jump" to me insinuating Lucas can't play Pac12 ball? Liability to the team??? HUH? Pretty sure I said he's a bench guy, and "putting a lot of stock in a guy" as a starter, is what I said. Lucas would have to make a fantastically huge jump to become anywhere near a complete player... the type that this roster truly needs and lost. If WT is going to depend on said "one-trick" types, he better find a shot blocker/rim protector. Because as limited or underachieving as KK was in certain areas he may have saved OSU 10-12 points a game. Losing Tres and a rim protector could be viewed as about a 30+ point deficit.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 26, 2020 15:57:30 GMT -8
Vernon has been our best percentage 3 point shooter 2 years in a row now. He's over 41% for the 2 years combined. Just doesn't shoot much. I don't know if he could keep it up if he shot more.
I don't see Lucas as a starter yet, probably by 2021 unless we get a real solid 2 player.
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Post by seastape on Mar 26, 2020 17:00:51 GMT -8
I think Lucas, sort of like Kevin Able, came into his own late in the season. He should be the starting #2 come next season IMO People are putting a lot of stock in a guy that didn't play a lick of D, played over 20 min in only 5 games (none of the last 5... 14.7 min/g over last 10). When he did play he shot .351/.342, scored 147 total points with 47 (33%) from the line, 0.9 rebs and 0.4 assists per game. Since the Furd output of 21 his last 10 games were worse than the season stats, .325/.371... and only (1) two pt FG in his last 40 attempts. Lucas is a one-trick pony, bench guy that stays in as long as he brings some offense, otherwise he's a defensive liability and a black hole with 3 total assists over his last 10 games, and 12 over the 31 played. For those who don't like Zach starting he's a far more complete player than Lucas. Folks just love the long ball and seem to forget the rest. But, all this talk of starting lineups/players just advances how weak our roster/recruiting really is/has been. For OSU to even compete for a 9-9 type record ET will have to score 4-6 more points per game and 4-5 players will have to become substantially better. Not one or two... 4 or 5. When you have ONE Pac12 quality starter returning you'd better have great player development providing depth, and great schemes offensively and defensively. How many of those do we have? Some disagreements here...I don't think that Lucas was devoid of D. He has some athleticism and can play some D (although he is short for a 2) but wasn't that great at it as a freshman...just like a lot of freshmen are not that great at D. As far as the "played over 20 min in only 5 games" thing...come on! You know as well as anyone on this board that WT has a real problem getting minutes for his subs. The fact that Lucas got in 20+ mins in 5 games is far more likely proof that he has things to offer, not proof that he has no game. That all being said, Lucas does have a lot to improve to be a complete player, and may never get there, but he will score 20+ points in a game a fair number of times before he's done and probably dump in 30 a few times for good measure. A lot of deficiencies are forgiven at any level if a player can score, and Lucas can score. His release is lightning quick. Agreed that Reichle is a more complete player at this point and thus deserves the start over Lucas...for now. Reischl is better on the boards and has more court awareness and does the things that don't always show up in the stat page. Still, it's not hard to imagine Lucas getting in over Reischl at some point next season, especially if Lucas starts scoring in bunches early and often. Reichle this past year, with serious improvement over his first two years, had, in over 28/mins per game, 7.9 pts, 3.3 rebs and 2.2 assists per game. Those stats fit in well with your narrative of how weak the team is when discussing starting lineups, but aren't a strong argument for keeping Reichle in as starter if Lucas develops into a scorer next year. As a starting SG, Reischl needs to come close to doubling his scoring output if he's going to play 28+ mins/game. Still, like you say, it's a moot point if more guys don't take major leaps next year. Franklin needs to be all that you (and others) say he is and more because if he is supposedly going to play the same position as Tinkle, i.e., a PF in a SF's body, that is going to be a problem. That is why we will need Tucker to come through along with the new JC guy, as well. Even if they do, what do we do for backup? Pray that Silva can eat space for 15 minutes/game? I don't care whether its Hunt or Vernon, but one of those guys need to be steady at the point, even if WT sticks with Ethan as the starter at PG. Someone needs to, because it is not hard to imagine 5 guard lineups next year.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 26, 2020 17:14:06 GMT -8
People are putting a lot of stock in a guy that didn't play a lick of D, played over 20 min in only 5 games (none of the last 5... 14.7 min/g over last 10). When he did play he shot .351/.342, scored 147 total points with 47 (33%) from the line, 0.9 rebs and 0.4 assists per game. Since the Furd output of 21 his last 10 games were worse than the season stats, .325/.371... and only (1) two pt FG in his last 40 attempts. Lucas is a one-trick pony, bench guy that stays in as long as he brings some offense, otherwise he's a defensive liability and a black hole with 3 total assists over his last 10 games, and 12 over the 31 played. For those who don't like Zach starting he's a far more complete player than Lucas. Folks just love the long ball and seem to forget the rest. But, all this talk of starting lineups/players just advances how weak our roster/recruiting really is/has been. For OSU to even compete for a 9-9 type record ET will have to score 4-6 more points per game and 4-5 players will have to become substantially better. Not one or two... 4 or 5. When you have ONE Pac12 quality starter returning you'd better have great player development providing depth, and great schemes offensively and defensively. How many of those do we have? Some disagreements here...I don't think that Lucas was devoid of D. He has some athleticism and can play some D (although he is short for a 2) but wasn't that great at it as a freshman...just like a lot of freshmen are not that great at D. As far as the "played over 20 min in only 5 games" thing...come on! You know as well as anyone on this board that WT has a real problem getting minutes for his subs. The fact that Lucas got in 20+ mins in 5 games is far more likely proof that he has things to offer, not proof that he has no game. That all being said, Lucas does have a lot to improve to be a complete player, and may never get there, but he will score 20+ points in a game a fair number of times before he's done and probably dump in 30 a few times for good measure. A lot of deficiencies are forgiven at any level if a player can score, and Lucas can score. His release is lightning quick. Agreed that Reichle is a more complete player at this point and thus deserves the start over Lucas...for now. Reischl is better on the boards and has more court awareness and does the things that don't always show up in the stat page. Still, it's not hard to imagine Lucas getting in over Reischl at some point next season, especially if Lucas starts scoring in bunches early and often. Reichle this past year, with serious improvement over his first two years, had, in over 28/mins per game, 7.9 pts, 3.3 rebs and 2.2 assists per game. Those stats fit in well with your narrative of how weak the team is when discussing starting lineups, but aren't a strong argument for keeping Reichle in as starter if Lucas develops into a scorer next year. As a starting SG, Reischl needs to come close to doubling his scoring output if he's going to play 28+ mins/game. Still, like you say, it's a moot point if more guys don't take major leaps next year. Franklin needs to be all that you (and others) say he is and more because if he is supposedly going to play the same position as Tinkle, i.e., a PF in a SF's body, that is going to be a problem. That is why we will need Tucker to come through along with the new JC guy, as well. Even if they do, what do we do for backup? Pray that Silva can eat space for 15 minutes/game? I don't care whether its Hunt or Vernon, but one of those guys need to be steady at the point, even if WT sticks with Ethan as the starter at PG. Someone needs to, because it is not hard to imagine 5 guard lineups next year. The 20 min/g for 5 wasn't about his game, was more with people expecting big things from him. His PT wasn't his fault, but my post was in response to many who think we've got any semblance of a Pac12 worthy lineup. And, Lucas is just one facet that has to dramatically improve without even discussing depth issues. Even if the Pac12 is down (looking at returners, not knowing who leaves early or transfers) we have a bottom 3 type lineup in comparison to those I pulled up. Hell, when we had all three sons and the Pac12 was down some OSU/WT still couldn't make significant hay in play or recruiting. WT will have to land at least two kids late that actually contribute to not be at 6-12 or worse.
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Post by beaversproud on Mar 27, 2020 15:57:15 GMT -8
Of course. We will be so much better without Tres. Or so I've sometimes read here. Hell, I read it every day!! I believe someone already said this buuut... word on the street is our recruiting will be better! and yet we have a bunch of 3 stars again....
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 27, 2020 16:41:19 GMT -8
Hell, I read it every day!! I believe someone already said this buuut... word on the street is our recruiting will be better! and yet we have a bunch of 3 stars again.... I'd take a "bunch"... 3*s aren't bad if someone can actually coach them up! But, last time I looked OSU has a low level 3* and a high 2* JC that I've seen ranked as high as #53, but not the highest rated on his own team. Just hoping reviews from the RS Franklin are accurate. Counting the RS gives OSU basically two 3*s and a 2* JC. Yeah... not great. But, come on... this season the excuse will be the virus affected recruiting... forgetting all about the last 3 empty recruiting seasons, because of course having the coaches' sons and all!?
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