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Post by sagebrush on Mar 16, 2020 10:33:28 GMT -8
Having all those coaches' kids cripples recruiting. Kids and their advisors are not stupid. They know who are going to get the minutes. Even if a did who is a big knows that with the kids who are G's or SF knows who the offense is going to be run through.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 16, 2020 10:51:07 GMT -8
Having all those coaches' kids cripples recruiting. Kids and their advisors are not stupid. They know who are going to get the minutes. Even if a did who is a big knows that with the kids who are G's or SF knows who the offense is going to be run through. And yet somehow Tinkle's first big (Eubanks) improved immeasurably and is in the NBA and his next big (Kelley) also improved immeasurably and will get an NBA shot, if only on a summer league team. As far as Bryce Alford goes, he was the only player on his UCLA teams to play any semblance of organized, team basketball. When he left the program disintegrated into AAU rat ball. He was a major asset, in addition to being a decent player.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 16, 2020 11:42:58 GMT -8
Having all those coaches' kids cripples recruiting. Kids and their advisors are not stupid. They know who are going to get the minutes. Even if a did who is a big knows that with the kids who are G's or SF knows who the offense is going to be run through. And yet somehow Tinkle's first big (Eubanks) improved immeasurably and is in the NBA and his next big (Kelley) also improved immeasurably and will get an NBA shot, if only on a summer league team. As far as Bryce Alford goes, he was the only player on his UCLA teams to play any semblance of organized, team basketball. When he left the program disintegrated into AAU rat ball. He was a major asset, in addition to being a decent player. I would say their improvements were very measureable. When each left OSU they were basically defensive players only. Drew was pretty much that in HS. They both are very limited in their offensive game... maybe 90% (or let's say an extremely HIGH %) of their scoring on dunks/layins. Neither has a faceup game... Drew especially. KK showed some ability in a turn/fade from 10 feet, but it was used very limited. And, shot blockers or not... both were extremely poor rebounders for their size and athleticism. WT has not developed any bigs to an substantial degree, especially when also considering those that left or see little or no time.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Mar 16, 2020 12:15:19 GMT -8
And yet somehow Tinkle's first big (Eubanks) improved immeasurably and is in the NBA and his next big (Kelley) also improved immeasurably and will get an NBA shot, if only on a summer league team. As far as Bryce Alford goes, he was the only player on his UCLA teams to play any semblance of organized, team basketball. When he left the program disintegrated into AAU rat ball. He was a major asset, in addition to being a decent player. I would say their improvements were very measureable. When each left OSU they were basically defensive players only. Drew was pretty much that in HS. They both are very limited in their offensive game... maybe 90% (or let's an extremely HIGH %) of their scoring on dunks/layins. Neither has a faceup game... Drew especially. KK showed some ability in a turn/fade from 10 feet, but it was used very limited. And, shot blockers or not... both were extremely poor rebounders for their size and athleticism. WT has not developed any bigs to an substantial degree, especially considering those that left or see little or no time. I'd argue both players had a mid-range jumper that you just didn't see utilized that often in our offense with three coaches sons and GP II for one year. Both were decent FT shooters, around 70% each (DE a little better than KK), and both showed an ability to hit an elbow jumper or baseline jumper if they got it. A 15 foot jumper was never a staple in either player's repertoire but it was there. Drew did average 14.5 and 13.2 PPG in his last two seasons.
Totally agree on rebounding though, but Drew did average about 7.5 per game his last two seasons which I don't think is too bad considering Tres also averages around the same number, and GP II stole a lot of his boards his first year.
I do wish both players were given a little more of an opportunity to be a focal point in the offense. I'm really hoping Tucker gets a chance to show what he's capable of as well providing he sticks around for next season. I liked his baseline jumper and willingness to scrap for boards in the limited time we saw of him. He's definitely more athletic than Roman and think if he improves and gets significant time next season he could be a real key to keeping pace with the rest of the conference.
Also, anybody heard anything re: Shengzhe Li? Would be cool to see him physically able to come back and play as I liked what I saw of him on video in HS.
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Post by nabeav on Mar 16, 2020 12:53:19 GMT -8
I coach my son's team, and it's hard. At least for me, I want to yell at my kid constantly for every mistake, but I don't, because I wouldn't yell at another kid for every mistake. So when I let something go, I wonder if the other kids see it as him getting a pass, even though I'd let them get away with the same thing some of the time.
My son played the most minutes on his team last year. He's playing less now that I'm coaching, but is still a starter and playing a majority of the minutes. I've heard grumblings through the grapevine that other parents don't think their kids are playing enough.
I doubt these problems go away when the kids get to college. I'd imagine that the Clippers dealt internally with nepotism issues when Austin Rivers was on the team. There's a lot of parents out there that think their kid gets the short end of the stick when it comes to playing time, and if you've got 25% of the team related to the coaching staff, it's easy to point to that to justify your feelings.
As for Wayne saying they were in the NIT, I'm sure he believed it. Pulling a baseba1111, I know people who work in the athletic department that were saying before the final weekend of the regular season that three more wins would get us in.
Regardless of what any of us think about the job he's doing, there's zero indication his job was on the line and all this talk about him trying to "buy time" is ridiculous. He knew he wasn't going anywhere after this season.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 16, 2020 12:53:31 GMT -8
It is surprising that WT would assert that they were assured of an NIT bid. Though I think there was a good chance they would be invited, it was by far a sure thing. But it is the comments on recruiting that are troubling. Top players want to play with top players. Tres, Stevie, and Ethan were all pretty highly ranked. So why didn’t other top players want to play with them? Because their fathers’ were the coaches? That in and of itself may cause some problems, but that WT couldn’t get players to see beyond that shows something lacking in his recruiting ability. All the minutes those players got and lack of development of other players certainly didn’t help. And then WT wants people to believe that his lack of recruiting ability is because of the three sons, and them being gone will lead to better recruiting results. I hope he is right. And if he’s not I look forward to his next excuses and who will be to blame. The Beavers should have received an NIT bid in 2019. They were light years better and had better metrics than San Diego, who inexplicably received a berth. The Beavers most assuredly should have received an NIT bid in 2020. The only thing that would have kept them out would have been an especially bad game against the Ducks or more automatic bids than anyone has ever seen. I think a better question mark in 2020 would have been whether Corvallis would have had the opportunity to host at least one NIT game.
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Post by ag87 on Mar 16, 2020 13:21:21 GMT -8
I coach my son's team, and it's hard. At least for me, I want to yell at my kid constantly for every mistake, but I don't, because I wouldn't yell at another kid for every mistake. So when I let something go, I wonder if the other kids see it as him getting a pass, even though I'd let them get away with the same thing some of the time. My son played the most minutes on his team last year. He's playing less now that I'm coaching, but is still a starter and playing a majority of the minutes. I've heard grumblings through the grapevine that other parents don't think their kids are playing enough. I doubt these problems go away when the kids get to college. I'd imagine that the Clippers dealt internally with nepotism issues when Austin Rivers was on the team. There's a lot of parents out there that think their kid gets the short end of the stick when it comes to playing time, and if you've got 25% of the team related to the coaching staff, it's easy to point to that to justify your feelings. As for Wayne saying they were in the NIT, I'm sure he believed it. Pulling a baseba1111, I know people who work in the athletic department that were saying before the final weekend of the regular season that three more wins would get us in. Regardless of what any of us think about the job he's doing, there's zero indication his job was on the line and all this talk about him trying to "buy time" is ridiculous. He knew he wasn't going anywhere after this season. I remember a reporter's question to Langston MW during Tres's freshman year. It was something like who does the coach yell at the most during practice. LMW laughed and said it wasnt even close that Tres gets the most abuse. Remember that LMW continued to start at least half the year when it was obvious he was not the player Tres was. My opinion is it is very difficult to coach your own child.
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lefty
Freshman
Posts: 427
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Post by lefty on Mar 16, 2020 15:13:43 GMT -8
Fire Tinkle ASAP! Team is poorly coached. There are no excuses. He has failed to meet expectations year after year. This team has not improved since GPII left and if we accept his poor unacceptable performance then we will get what we accepted. There is a ton of great players and coaches out there and we should not accept anything less than a competitive team. How many players have we lost from transferring or other reasons? The reason we have a mediocre team is that it what we accept. If this was the private sector he would have been gone years ago.
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Post by avidbeaver on Mar 16, 2020 18:10:12 GMT -8
It is surprising that WT would assert that they were assured of an NIT bid. Though I think there was a good chance they would be invited, it was by far a sure thing. But it is the comments on recruiting that are troubling. Top players want to play with top players. Tres, Stevie, and Ethan were all pretty highly ranked. So why didn’t other top players want to play with them? Because their fathers’ were the coaches? That in and of itself may cause some problems, but that WT couldn’t get players to see beyond that shows something lacking in his recruiting ability. All the minutes those players got and lack of development of other players certainly didn’t help. And then WT wants people to believe that his lack of recruiting ability is because of the three sons, and them being gone will lead to better recruiting results. I hope he is right. And if he’s not I look forward to his next excuses and who will be to blame. The Beavers should have received an NIT bid in 2019. They were light years better and had better metrics than San Diego, who inexplicably received a berth. The Beavers most assuredly should have received an NIT bid in 2020. The only thing that would have kept them out would have been an especially bad game against the Ducks or more automatic bids than anyone has ever seen. I think a better question mark in 2020 would have been whether Corvallis would have had the opportunity to host at least one NIT game. Beavers didn't get a NIT bid last year due to the way they finished the season. Losing 4 of the last five won't endear you to the selection committee.
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Post by spudbeaver on Mar 16, 2020 18:44:44 GMT -8
I coach my son's team, and it's hard. At least for me, I want to yell at my kid constantly for every mistake, but I don't, because I wouldn't yell at another kid for every mistake. So when I let something go, I wonder if the other kids see it as him getting a pass, even though I'd let them get away with the same thing some of the time. My son played the most minutes on his team last year. He's playing less now that I'm coaching, but is still a starter and playing a majority of the minutes. I've heard grumblings through the grapevine that other parents don't think their kids are playing enough. I doubt these problems go away when the kids get to college. I'd imagine that the Clippers dealt internally with nepotism issues when Austin Rivers was on the team. There's a lot of parents out there that think their kid gets the short end of the stick when it comes to playing time, and if you've got 25% of the team related to the coaching staff, it's easy to point to that to justify your feelings. As for Wayne saying they were in the NIT, I'm sure he believed it. Pulling a baseba1111, I know people who work in the athletic department that were saying before the final weekend of the regular season that three more wins would get us in. Regardless of what any of us think about the job he's doing, there's zero indication his job was on the line and all this talk about him trying to "buy time" is ridiculous. He knew he wasn't going anywhere after this season. I remember a reporter's question to Langston MW during Tres's freshman year. It was something like who does the coach yell at the most during practice. LMW laughed and said it wasnt even close that Tres gets the most abuse. Remember that LMW continued to start at least half the year when it was obvious he was not the player Tres was. My opinion is it is very difficult to coach your own child. I know personally how hard it is (to do it right) in youth sports, can’t imagine magnifying that by 1000 or more.
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Post by beaverdreams on Mar 16, 2020 20:06:16 GMT -8
Hey, Ralph Miller had to make a big deal about Paul Miller not being his kid for recruiting... Just kidding, but it actually was brought up quite often at the time, so maybe?? Paul Miller was my insurance agent when I was at OSU in early nineties....I didn't even know who he was....just this really tall dude, and humble as pie.....real cool, nice guy.....I started looking at his OSU paraphernalia and he was like, "oh yeah, I played at OSU".....like no biggie.
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Post by irimi on Mar 16, 2020 20:58:04 GMT -8
Oh I don't know. But if I were thinking of going to OSU as a ball player, I would definitely watch how the coaches' kids were treated. Was there any appearance of favoritism? More minutes? More leeway? Any of that means that the coaches aren't coaching a team, they're coaching their kids. You would walk into a program with a strike against you simply because of your last name. So I would look elsewhere.
Now you guys can argue about whether Tres got minutes maybe he shouldn't have. Or Stevie or Ethan. That's a judgment call.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 16, 2020 22:08:44 GMT -8
Well whatever the opinions and experiences of coaching our own kids, none here have coached at a D1 level and dealt with recruiting. There have been over a 100 father son combos in college hoops and I'm sure the sons were seldom seen as excuses for not signing quality players. Biased I am, but WT's statement reeks of an excuse and again tossing blame elsewhere. Funny 3 of the 4 best recruits ever signed by WT were coaches kids and yet they were the ones to blame for no others of equal stature being signed?? Really... So, can we then surmise that those players that transferred out were again due to the sons?
There are many other father/son combos where the son was a good, to very good, to maybe one of the best in school history and recruiting good players to go with them was never an issue. Of course excusers will say the Alfords, it was UCLA... the Beileins, it was WV... Tark and Krugers, it's UNLV... the Dawkins, it's UCF... the Houstons, nah it's UT... the Drews, it was the draw of Valpo...
How about saying less in public and when you due take credit for any shortcomings and vow to improve... then actually get results... recruiting and in conference play.
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Post by sagebrush on Mar 17, 2020 3:17:55 GMT -8
ONE father-son combo happens and is viewed as reasonable. THREE at one time is different. Kid/parents in the living room know there is little opportunity.
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Post by nexus73 on Mar 17, 2020 6:25:19 GMT -8
Coach/son team vs championship team: Press Maravich and Pistol Pete (LSU) vs UCLA at Pauley Pavilion under John Wooden. Pete got a slew of points since he was That Good. UCLA wiped out the Bayou Bengals completely to claim the W. 5 beats 1.
If the all-time NCAA scoring leader with his father as a coach could not hang with the best team of that time, what chance do we have?
Our team lacked two players akin to Golden State's Splash Brothers in order to excel. What we had was a fine supporting cast. It was like a V-6 without a turbo, okay to a point but it won't win races against the big dogs on the track or strip.
Finding those two players: Let's say Pritchard had come to OSU instead of UO. There's one stud when two are needed but he did not play at the higher level seen as a senior early on. It takes one-and-done talent to have a shot to do such. There are not that many of them out there. We aren't in the hunt, so getting some fairly decent "coach's kids" players was about the limit for us.
As a conference, the Pac-12 sucks rutabagas in basketball. Our top teams are not making many Final Fours. Oregon was the last to do so. They have the training facilities, basketball court and Big Time Donor that few universities have. Still no NCAA Championship trophy to show for it. Arizona had the best player in college basketball a few years ago. He went #1 in the NBA Draft. Arizona went bye-bye in the first NCAA tournament game during his last season. UCLA has not won the title since 1995. That's a quarter century ago!
In the meantime, Gonzaga has become the premier West Coast college basketball team. In football we have seen Boise State do better than the best the Pac-12 had. Only in the low revenue sports does the Pac-12 look like The Conference Of Champions. There's a saying about rising tides lifting all boats. For the Pac-12 it is a dropping tide in the major revenue sports. As good as Oregon is, they are 0-2 in football national championship games and 0-1 in Final Four games during the 21st century. 20 years and that's it. We see the Duck mascot in TV commercials a lot but where's the beef? In the meantime, the SEC is rumbling like a Russian tank in 1945 Berlin with the ACC adding in their share of championships.
If it sucks to be us as an university and a conference, we're in good company. Look at Notre Dame. Remember when the Fighting Irish were relevant in national championships? Not any more. Maybe we should invite them to join the Pac-12...LOL! Michigan has to also be wondering where the mojo went. Oklahoma's Sooners are lately not so hot even with their storied past on the gridiron and court. If it was not for Ohio State being able to sneak in a win in championship games, we could just send the trophies south of the Mason-Dixon line and not have to worry about them coming back.
In conclusion, is Tinkle as HC the best thing since sliced bread? Hardly. Neither is anyone else out west except for Mark Few. This makes me think we are shopping in a store with mostly empty shelves. Whoever we get to replace WT won't be any better. Whoever any Pac-12 team gets to replace their current coach won't do any better. If anyone could buy a better coach it would be Oregon. They can't find one to buy that takes them to the Promised Land even with Phil Knight and Nike behind them.
Color us stuck as a team and a conference. This sucks rutabagas. Wish I knew a way out of this conundrum!
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