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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 12, 2020 10:50:42 GMT -8
I am firmly convinced that this virus has been around for a while - a few months ago my wife got sick and it wasn't like any flu she'd ever had before - if there were enough tests that they could take a controlled sampling, I am betting that a significant percentage of the population has been exposed. I just think that we are way behind the curve on this, either because of what I think is happening, or as atownbeaver said above, the leadership at all levels has failed to keep up. It is entirely possible. China spent weeks covering it up. It was finally uncovered, detected and classified in December, but it likely started before. Coronaviruses themselves are not new. They are zoonotic meaning they come from animals. Pigs, birds, bats, etcs. It is suspected bats were the culprit this time. Specifically it is believed that bats infected pagolin's where were being sold in the wet markets at the large Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market. SARS is a coronavirus, and this virus is very similar to SARS, the strain identification of the virus is actually SARS-CoV-2, in fact. it is in the same family. I suspect if communication was referencing this outbreak to SARS, instead of "the flu" people would of treated it more seriously.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 12, 2020 10:58:41 GMT -8
I am firmly convinced that this virus has been around for a while - a few months ago my wife got sick and it wasn't like any flu she'd ever had before - if there were enough tests that they could take a controlled sampling, I am betting that a significant percentage of the population has been exposed. I just think that we are way behind the curve on this, either because of what I think is happening, or as atownbeaver said above, the leadership at all levels has failed to keep up. My wife and I had something going on weird from about December until a couple weeks ago, me first then she. Sore throat, lethargy, off and on fevers for a few days, swollen glands in the neck, kinda felt like an off and on mild cold mild flu, for about 6 weeks each, not like anything either of us had had in our memories. Can't blame in on the Covid unless it's been going on since fall (who knows when it really started in China, they may have been pretty tight-lipped about this for a while). New bugs appear, old one's mutate, they'll probably win in the end. Hopefully technology can ward that off.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 12, 2020 11:03:16 GMT -8
I am firmly convinced that this virus has been around for a while - a few months ago my wife got sick and it wasn't like any flu she'd ever had before - if there were enough tests that they could take a controlled sampling, I am betting that a significant percentage of the population has been exposed. I just think that we are way behind the curve on this, either because of what I think is happening, or as atownbeaver said above, the leadership at all levels has failed to keep up. My wife and I had something going on weird from about December until a couple weeks ago, me first then she. Sore throat, lethargy, off and on fevers for a few days, swollen glands in the neck, kinda felt like an off and on mild cold mild flu, for about 6 weeks each, not like anything either of us had had in our memories. Can't blame in on the Covid unless it's been going on since fall (who knows when it really started in China, they may have been pretty tight-lipped about this for a while). New bugs appear, old one's mutate, they'll probably win in the end. Hopefully technology can ward that off. COVID-19 is distinctly respiratory. coughing, shortness of breath and fever. You will have distinct respiratory symptoms if you get it. Part of why this is kind of a big deal is we are only just coming out of regular old flu season. so we still have winter colds, flus and everything else people normally get. That goes back to the surge capacity deal. Other viruses don't stop just because there is a new guy in town!
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 12, 2020 11:06:24 GMT -8
I am firmly convinced that this virus has been around for a while - a few months ago my wife got sick and it wasn't like any flu she'd ever had before - if there were enough tests that they could take a controlled sampling, I am betting that a significant percentage of the population has been exposed. I just think that we are way behind the curve on this, either because of what I think is happening, or as atownbeaver said above, the leadership at all levels has failed to keep up. It is entirely possible. China spent weeks covering it up. It was finally uncovered, detected and classified in December, but it likely started before. Coronaviruses themselves are not new. They are zoonotic meaning they come from animals. Pigs, birds, bats, etcs. It is suspected bats were the culprit this time. Specifically it is believed that bats infected pagolin's where were being sold in the wet markets at the large Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market. SARS is a coronavirus, and this virus is very similar to SARS, the strain identification of the virus is actually SARS-CoV-2, in fact. it is in the same family. I suspect if communication was referencing this outbreak to SARS, instead of "the flu" people would of treated it more seriously. Now that the WHO has officially called it a pandemic, it'll be curious as to how fast tracked a vaccine or two will be. Several companies that have created successful vaccines against earlier coronavirus types have claimed to have cracked the code on this one and are headed towards human trials soon or now. Normally it'd be what a year, year and a half at best?
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Post by albanianbeav on Mar 12, 2020 11:16:35 GMT -8
I just want to add, I am not trying to come off as a smarmy-know-it-all, but I do work for the Oregon Health Authority, I do have a Master's degree in Epidemiology (from our fine Oregon State University herself) and I currently work in hospital policy (hence why I have fun facts about Oregon hospitals at my fingertips). I feel obliged to do what I can to snuff out misinformation, or overall bad advice or misguided views on the situation. We are in a situation that was grossly exacerbated by extremely poor response at the top, driven mostly by the overall attitude the OP I was responding to displayed. Disregard for what is really at stake, only viewing the pandemic in the lens of if it is dangerous to oneself, or not considering it serious because it isn't some Hollywood movie level of a disease with blood pouring out of various orifices like ebola... I am curious what the “extremely poor response from the top” was, and what it should have been. I genuinely do not know, I am far from a health care expert. Also, if other measures were taken, what would have been the expected/acceptable results? I think there are 1,200-ish confirmed cases so far as a result of the poor response. I share the concerns you have expressed above about the spread of this thing, just do not have a good perspective on how it all started, and reading the news is pretty pointless for one seeking an objective opinion.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 12, 2020 11:27:02 GMT -8
I just want to add, I am not trying to come off as a smarmy-know-it-all, but I do work for the Oregon Health Authority, I do have a Master's degree in Epidemiology (from our fine Oregon State University herself) and I currently work in hospital policy (hence why I have fun facts about Oregon hospitals at my fingertips). I feel obliged to do what I can to snuff out misinformation, or overall bad advice or misguided views on the situation. We are in a situation that was grossly exacerbated by extremely poor response at the top, driven mostly by the overall attitude the OP I was responding to displayed. Disregard for what is really at stake, only viewing the pandemic in the lens of if it is dangerous to oneself, or not considering it serious because it isn't some Hollywood movie level of a disease with blood pouring out of various orifices like ebola... I am curious what the “extremely poor response from the top” was, and what it should have been. I genuinely do not know, I am far from a health care expert. Also, if other measures were taken, what would have been the expected/acceptable results? I think there are 1,200-ish confirmed cases so far as a result of the poor response. I share the concerns you have expressed above about the spread of this thing, just do not have a good perspective on how it all started, and reading the news is pretty pointless for one seeking an objective opinion. Folks like blame. It's always someone's fault. Even now people are blaming current actions/travel bans/etc as too much, too late, etc. Even a vaccine will be chided as too slow, under funded, not enough, on and on.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 12, 2020 11:29:40 GMT -8
I wish all our fans showed up as often, and had the passion, of the Tinkle sisters. No... just no. Most of what she says isn't "passion" it's plain foul mouthed, bitchy, and thru a greatly orange tinted lens. She has been admonished over the seasons at least three times I know, twice at the request of officials. Three fans asked for their courtside seats to be moved away from her. One sis is awesome the other is a complete bitch on a broomstick. That type of passion is not what OSU needs to be known for. If that's your style, passion at any cost, you enjoy yourself. Hmm. I discerned nothing of the sort in my limited interactions with the elder Tinkle. I know several people who sit near her and find her to be a delightful person. And generally, I do enjoy myself. Thanks for your concern.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 12, 2020 12:07:49 GMT -8
I just want to add, I am not trying to come off as a smarmy-know-it-all, but I do work for the Oregon Health Authority, I do have a Master's degree in Epidemiology (from our fine Oregon State University herself) and I currently work in hospital policy (hence why I have fun facts about Oregon hospitals at my fingertips). I feel obliged to do what I can to snuff out misinformation, or overall bad advice or misguided views on the situation. We are in a situation that was grossly exacerbated by extremely poor response at the top, driven mostly by the overall attitude the OP I was responding to displayed. Disregard for what is really at stake, only viewing the pandemic in the lens of if it is dangerous to oneself, or not considering it serious because it isn't some Hollywood movie level of a disease with blood pouring out of various orifices like ebola... I am curious what the “extremely poor response from the top” was, and what it should have been. I genuinely do not know, I am far from a health care expert. Also, if other measures were taken, what would have been the expected/acceptable results? I think there are 1,200-ish confirmed cases so far as a result of the poor response. I share the concerns you have expressed above about the spread of this thing, just do not have a good perspective on how it all started, and reading the news is pretty pointless for one seeking an objective opinion. Summed up: Ignored the problem, then denied there was a problem, provided misinformation about the problem, then finally when left with no other options, enacted restrictions that needed to happen about a month ago. Trump reaction was childish paranoia about how this would impact his electability, and outright conspiracy theory. not actual concern for Americans or doing the right thing. COVID-19 erupted in December with a cluster of 41 infected individual in Wuhan. There were probably countless more but the Chinese government also responded very poorly, covering up information that was vital to assessing the seriousness of the outbreak. It was quickly established through testing this was a SARS related coronavirus, and with that information epidemiologists immediately new the risks. A viral infection, transmitted via respiratory droplets (coughes, sneezes... basically breathing...) that can survive on surfaces for 24-48 hours, that started in the 5th largest city in China with a population over 11 million... Within days it was outside the city and spreading fast, due mainly to influx of travel from Chinese New Year celebrations. In less than 3 weeks, it went from an identified cluster of 41 people to over 6,000 confirmed cases in China. As of today there are over 80,000 confirmed cases in China, and you know that is a wildly deflated number. Chinese New Years is important. This is why it is now a global pandemic. Wuhan is a major hub city for travel. Chunyun - or spring migration, is what the Chinese call the massive influx of travelers for Chinese New Years celebrations. it is estimated 2.9 BILLION transportation actions (planes, trains and automobiles moving people) to a destination city in China (both from other parts of China or outside of it). Disease experts are well aware of this, and made multiple recommendations, EARLY (back in January) to limit travel out of China, or for individuals who had been to China. These warning were not only ignored, they were punished. As health care experts were urging people to limit travel, to only go out for important matters, to self-isolate and to enact quarantine measures for recent travelers, Trump not only ignored them all... he mocked them. Trump at one point called the outbreak a hoax. When he was criticized in late January for not responding to the emerging threat, he accused democrats of just trying to make him look bad. he floated ideas that infected numbers were inflated to make him look bad and to crash the market. He called up the Hannity show and told millions of people the outbreak was no big deal, it is just a mild disease, you can probably go to work even if you don't feel good, and he doesn't think more than 15 people will get sick in the US. He appointed a completely untrained vice president to lead the response, and directly censored and restricted the CDC's ability to communicate and respond. He refused to allow the CDC to send more testing kits out, despite them being available. As the ultimate leader, he failed to enact emergency declarations that would of authorized funding and response until way too late. The single most important thing the federal government does in a disaster is be a check book. They pay boots on the ground workers that go out and do things. They organize and coordinate. That is what the feds are suppose to do. He failed to mobilize those efforts in any sort of timely or reasonable manner. Of course, there is also the fact that back in 2018 Trump fired Tom Bossert, the Obama appointed Homeland security official in charge of pandemic response and readiness. Other members of the national security council left their positions and Trump neglected to replace them, including Rear Adm. Tim Ziemer, the NSC's senior director for global health security and biodefense and Dr. Luciana Borio, the NSC's director for medical and biodefense preparedness. Trump failed to staff an advisory council with the necessary expertise to respond to this crisis, and the remaining expertise at the CDC was ignored. The experts at WHO were also ignored. They were ignored to because restricting travel and quarantining people costs money and hurts profits. So does telling people to self-isolate. The lack of response was only partial incompetence. It was also outright malice. It was a purposeful attempt to prevent a market collapse, so Trump wasn't saddled with a recession going into November. However, had he acted early, the impact would of been significantly less severe than what we are facing today. In the minimum, a quarantine requirement for travelers from China, if not outright restriction in late January could of prevented the spread to the US. Evaluation of travel and testing/quarantine measures at our borders would of helped. Before yesterday's bans, people were still freely traveling in from Italy and China with NO questions from customs as to contact with sick individual, as to if they were experiencing symptoms... let alone any sort of quarantine/isolation/or required testing. This isn't an outbreak that caught anyone by surprise. We saw it coming weeks away, which is actually very rare, and that is what makes it more infuriating. It is pretty rare you have the luxury to do something about things like this! It is here now and it is already too late. Everything we are doing now is only going to slow the bleeding, but right now slowing the bleeding is important to ensure we do not exceed medical system capacity. None of this had to happen, and I believe it wouldn't of happened had we had a competent president, and functioning federal administration. We do not.
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Post by bennyorange on Mar 12, 2020 12:41:24 GMT -8
Well at least we know now how atownbeaver is voting in November
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 12, 2020 12:48:50 GMT -8
Woulda, coulda, shoulda, I guess. This thing was mis-handled and botched from the beginning... however, would a change in leadership have changed anything? It's easy to say Trump stopped travel to and from China too late, but then again, he was called xenophobic when he did it. Even after last night's shutdown of travel from the Schengen Countries is being criticized as too much, too little, unnecessary, too late by many. In both this pandemic and the H1N1 pandemic both Presidents declared public health emergencies early on, prior to any deaths and little no diagnosed cases, the current President announced travel bans and quarantines, which are more or less unprecedented in modern times.
They both could have done a lot of things better, but to lay all the blame on one guy or administration can seem a bit political in my opinion. This country doesn't always do things at break neck speed, whether it be because of an overabundance of caution or trying not to upset people. This is more serious than has been let on, it's as serious as the last pandemic and does seem to have some things done at a faster rate in some cases... but it could have been done faster. From what I understand, the H1N1 vaccination program took about 6 months to get off the ground after the disease hit our shores, hopefully this one will get going even faster.
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Post by wetrodentia on Mar 12, 2020 12:49:27 GMT -8
Well at least we know now how atownbeaver is voting in November And we know he's finally all in on securing that pesky border: "Since officials first reported the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan in late December and the United States imposed a travel ban for those entering from China, Border Patrol agents have detained 333 Chinese nationals attempting to enter the United States illegally, according to Department of Homeland Security data obtained by Fox News."
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 12, 2020 13:02:19 GMT -8
It is entirely possible. China spent weeks covering it up. It was finally uncovered, detected and classified in December, but it likely started before. Coronaviruses themselves are not new. They are zoonotic meaning they come from animals. Pigs, birds, bats, etcs. It is suspected bats were the culprit this time. Specifically it is believed that bats infected pagolin's where were being sold in the wet markets at the large Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market. SARS is a coronavirus, and this virus is very similar to SARS, the strain identification of the virus is actually SARS-CoV-2, in fact. it is in the same family. I suspect if communication was referencing this outbreak to SARS, instead of "the flu" people would of treated it more seriously. Now that the WHO has officially called it a pandemic, it'll be curious as to how fast tracked a vaccine or two will be. Several companies that have created successful vaccines against earlier coronavirus types have claimed to have cracked the code on this one and are headed towards human trials soon or now. Normally it'd be what a year, year and a half at best? The Chinese have sequenced the whole COVID-19 genome and shared it with the world. Human trials on the first vaccine are set to start "soon." It will probably be 2021, though, until there is enough vaccine to really make it worthwhile. As it gets warmer, you would expect to see a huge down-tick in new cases, but that might not take hold until early to mid-June, unless there is a real concerted effort.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 12, 2020 13:57:39 GMT -8
Well at least we know now how atownbeaver is voting in November You know, lets go ahead and clear the air on something. I do not identify with a political party whatsoever. Part of that is because I work in policy at the state, on hospitals, and work with both democrats and republicans frequently. Being an overtly political loudmouth would affect my career. but largely to the point. I am pragmatic and I think it is silly to put ones identity into a political party. I do not cheer for politicians like I cheer for sports teams. Nor should you. I am a public official and I respect that I work for the public. My position, my salary... all public record. My emails, documents, everything I do, could be requested to be viewed at any time. I work for Oregonians. I am rather a constant and persistent criticizer of elected officials. largely because most of them all entirely suck and seem to forget they work for Americans as well. And the end of the day, all my disapproval of Trump can be categorized into a single lump: He is a poor government official. and extensions of that single topic. So, I have no problem trashing a president, any president, that is acting poorly. Or any other public official. This may surprise you based on my Trump bashing, but I don't like Kate Brown and find her an ineffective leader focusing on the wrong problems. Knute, very likely, could of been an effective governor. I have worked with him several times, and he did carry significant clout in his committee appointments. Of course she is my literal and actual boss, as I am an executive branch employee... so I am gonna keep all that to myself. I could sit here and trash on Obama if you want me too. I could sit here and find a few things to compliment Trump on, if you want me to. Where America has gone astray is failing to demand accountability from OUR leaders. and when I capitalize OUR, I mean our party. who WE voted for. Republicans fail to demand accountability from Trump, right now. Democrats failed with Obama. The cycle repeats. And if this cycle plays out, the DNC will not be held accountable for putting forward an equally unelectable twat in Biden. And, like 4 years ago, My vote will not be enthusiastic support, but rather pragmatic assessment of "who sucks less". Because make no mistake, a Democrat will criticize a Republican leader no matter what, and visa versa. Even if those leaders are engaged in policy or actions that their own side was just months or years before...We fall into our trends of rooting for the party, and dismissing the needs of the nation. We make excuses when our guys or gals f%#* up. We cognitively disassociate. What we don't do is tell them to be better. A party will never cast out it's own, even it needs to. Dems didn't cast out Hillary, they embraced her. Republicans aren't going to cast out Trump... hell, they just saved his ass. Every leader is going to screw up. Not every policy is going to work for everyone. sometimes the greater good means hurting others... all of that matters. But we have to demand equally of our leaders. If you wouldn't accept an action from the opposing party, you should never accept it from your own. But we do it over, and over, and over again. I was at the gun show in Albany last weekend. I saw a table that said "No sales to Democrats". I just found that profoundly sad. Yes, some in that party don't like guns and want to ban them. Some just want more regulations and still others don't even give a s%#t. But we operate in this environment where we call our fellow Americans our enemy. To this guy, democrats were his enemy. Without meeting them, without shaking their hand, without breaking of the bread, so to speak. And to be sure, If I, i dunno, wandered into a vegan bakery or whatever and saw a "no republican's" sign, I'd be equally disheartened. I am a guy with two public health degrees. Yes, I have hippie dirty commie progressive beliefs on health care. My wife is a public school teacher. Yes I have hippie progressive dirty commie beliefs on the education system. But I am also an avid hunter and fisherman, so I have not so hippie beliefs on gun ownership, and depending on who you ask either conservative OR liberal views on land use policy. I see the role of regulation to be both important, and stifling. In my world, we can attribute the expanse of regulatory actions on hospitals to add upwards of $1,200 to the cost of an inpatient stay, for example. I do care, tremendously, about civil liberties and autonomy. That is the foundation of our country, and decidedly a complex blend of both conservative and progressive values. Americans deserve to live a self directed life with as little government interference as reasonably possible. Like most people. I am not a caricature of something you invented in your head. We are all more complex than that.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 12, 2020 14:18:04 GMT -8
I am curious what the “extremely poor response from the top” was, and what it should have been. I genuinely do not know, I am far from a health care expert. Also, if other measures were taken, what would have been the expected/acceptable results? I think there are 1,200-ish confirmed cases so far as a result of the poor response. I share the concerns you have expressed above about the spread of this thing, just do not have a good perspective on how it all started, and reading the news is pretty pointless for one seeking an objective opinion. Summed up: Ignored the problem, then denied there was a problem, provided misinformation about the problem, then finally when left with no other options, enacted restrictions that needed to happen about a month ago. Trump reaction was childish paranoia about how this would impact his electability, and outright conspiracy theory. not actual concern for Americans or doing the right thing. COVID-19 erupted in December with a cluster of 41 infected individual in Wuhan. There were probably countless more but the Chinese government also responded very poorly, covering up information that was vital to assessing the seriousness of the outbreak. It was quickly established through testing this was a SARS related coronavirus, and with that information epidemiologists immediately new the risks. A viral infection, transmitted via respiratory droplets (coughes, sneezes... basically breathing...) that can survive on surfaces for 24-48 hours, that started in the 5th largest city in China with a population over 11 million... Within days it was outside the city and spreading fast, due mainly to influx of travel from Chinese New Year celebrations. In less than 3 weeks, it went from an identified cluster of 41 people to over 6,000 confirmed cases in China. As of today there are over 80,000 confirmed cases in China, and you know that is a wildly deflated number. Chinese New Years is important. This is why it is now a global pandemic. Wuhan is a major hub city for travel. Chunyun - or spring migration, is what the Chinese call the massive influx of travelers for Chinese New Years celebrations. it is estimated 2.9 BILLION transportation actions (planes, trains and automobiles moving people) to a destination city in China (both from other parts of China or outside of it). Disease experts are well aware of this, and made multiple recommendations, EARLY (back in January) to limit travel out of China, or for individuals who had been to China. These warning were not only ignored, they were punished. As health care experts were urging people to limit travel, to only go out for important matters, to self-isolate and to enact quarantine measures for recent travelers, Trump not only ignored them all... he mocked them. Trump at one point called the outbreak a hoax. When he was criticized in late January for not responding to the emerging threat, he accused democrats of just trying to make him look bad. he floated ideas that infected numbers were inflated to make him look bad and to crash the market. He called up the Hannity show and told millions of people the outbreak was no big deal, it is just a mild disease, you can probably go to work even if you don't feel good, and he doesn't think more than 15 people will get sick in the US. He appointed a completely untrained vice president to lead the response, and directly censored and restricted the CDC's ability to communicate and respond. He refused to allow the CDC to send more testing kits out, despite them being available. As the ultimate leader, he failed to enact emergency declarations that would of authorized funding and response until way too late. The single most important thing the federal government does in a disaster is be a check book. They pay boots on the ground workers that go out and do things. They organize and coordinate. That is what the feds are suppose to do. He failed to mobilize those efforts in any sort of timely or reasonable manner. Of course, there is also the fact that back in 2018 Trump fired Tom Bossert, the Obama appointed Homeland security official in charge of pandemic response and readiness. Other members of the national security council left their positions and Trump neglected to replace them, including Rear Adm. Tim Ziemer, the NSC's senior director for global health security and biodefense and Dr. Luciana Borio, the NSC's director for medical and biodefense preparedness. Trump failed to staff an advisory council with the necessary expertise to respond to this crisis, and the remaining expertise at the CDC was ignored. The experts at WHO were also ignored. They were ignored to because restricting travel and quarantining people costs money and hurts profits. So does telling people to self-isolate. The lack of response was only partial incompetence. It was also outright malice. It was a purposeful attempt to prevent a market collapse, so Trump wasn't saddled with a recession going into November. However, had he acted early, the impact would of been significantly less severe than what we are facing today. In the minimum, a quarantine requirement for travelers from China, if not outright restriction in late January could of prevented the spread to the US. Evaluation of travel and testing/quarantine measures at our borders would of helped. Before yesterday's bans, people were still freely traveling in from Italy and China with NO questions from customs as to contact with sick individual, as to if they were experiencing symptoms... let alone any sort of quarantine/isolation/or required testing. This isn't an outbreak that caught anyone by surprise. We saw it coming weeks away, which is actually very rare, and that is what makes it more infuriating. It is pretty rare you have the luxury to do something about things like this! It is here now and it is already too late. Everything we are doing now is only going to slow the bleeding, but right now slowing the bleeding is important to ensure we do not exceed medical system capacity. None of this had to happen, and I believe it wouldn't of happened had we had a competent president, and functioning federal administration. We do not. Trump called Democrats' criticism of his response a "hoax" in mid- to late February. As far as I know, he never called the outbreak a hoax. It is probably a poor choice of words, but he has been using it since the "Russia hoax." When Ebola was raging, which is a far worse (but harder to get) disease, Obama appointed Ron Klain as his Ebola Response Coordinator, or less oficially his Ebola "czar." The New York Times (of all places) criticized the move because Klain had "no record or expertise in Ebola specifically or public health in general." Forbes championed Michael Bloomberg, Dr. Ben Carson, and Bill Frist as individuals wildly more qualified than Klain to fill the position. As far as the test kits, I do not know what period of time you are referring to. The initial test kits went out to the states on February 5, 2020. The problem was that the German company in charge sent out kits that had a contaminated negative reagent. Most of the tests failed to provide any results. The FDA had a holdover Obama-era rule that academic and commercial labs could not produce their own negative reagent to test samples against, even when several had the capacity. The foul-up was that it took until Leap Day for the CDC and FDA to work together to get the rule lifted, so that states could produce their own negative reagent. They could have sent out test kits, but they would not have done any good without the negative reagent, which no one could produce until Leap Day. Tom Bossert was a Trump appointee. He never worked for Obama. And Bossert resigned. Are you thinking of someone else? Carmen Maher replaced Luciana Borio. Tim Ziemer resigned and his job was incorporated into John Bolton's job, in an effort to streamline the bureaucracy. That job is now being handled by Robert O'Brien. As far as decrying the travel ban, what are you talking about? Trump pushed through the Chinese travel ban in January despite intense pushback! Biden's response was "This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, to uh.......and fear-mongering." If someone other than Trump was in charge, there would have been no January 2020 Chinese travel ban! It would be even worse, not better!
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Post by Mike84 on Mar 12, 2020 14:51:15 GMT -8
Seriously though, this is stupid. People who are at risk should be protecting themselves (droplet and contact precautions), but the public at large is just fine and many have had it without even knowing it. ... The issue is surge capacity. It is correct that the vast majority of people will be fine. but if suddenly even 1% of the population needs to use the hospital, you have exceeded capacity. ... Although we don't come to sports boards for this kind of stuff and although this discussion almost can't help but stray firmly (and uncomfortably) into political territory, I just wanted to thank you for summing it all up with these two sentences. I had really been struggling to make sense of the actions being taken (or not taken) and what the ultimate goal was. I was frustrated by the lack of real numbers caused by lack of testing and was confused by what I perceived as a naive belief that the virus would just go away if we cancelled gatherings for a month or so. I couldn't figure out what I could REALLY do to help and whether or not my actions were to protect myself or to protect other, more vulnerable people. Then I found an article today that introduced me to the concept of "flattening the curve". I sort of knew this, but only abstractly. One picture and a few words helped it all start to make sense. It's not about believing that the virus will be gone in April if we cancel gatherings in March. It's not about the fact that I and the vast majority of people will be fine if they get the virus. It's just about doing what we can to make things as OK as possible for those who are in real danger if they get the virus. Not so confusing after all:
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