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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 11, 2020 14:09:58 GMT -8
Tres was under control - that looks like a major acting job to me as well. Yes, he did get contacted, but not enough to send him flying like he made it look. Tres body didn't move backwards on contact, didn't move at all even. Yes, you do see that get called, but would have been a bad one, IMO. I also do not think that the defender was set. He sold it for all that it was worth, though. Defender doesn't have to be set. That has nothing to do with legal guarding position.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 11, 2020 14:12:53 GMT -8
Hunt is going to bring energy every game and next year as well..Lucas has a shooters mentality and short term memory loss on misses...With Reichle..Hollins..Thompson returning,we have a pretty solid core group next year.Biggest question is in the middle now that the human fly swatter is moving on. This win makes us at least an NIT appearance.Good for Tinkle.He has given OSU everything he has in his tank over his career.
You don't just replace a 3x all Pac-12 team player and all time leading scorer at a school overnight... but I do think we got a couple real good young kids. There is a good core here.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 11, 2020 14:18:09 GMT -8
I also do not think that the defender was set. He sold it for all that it was worth, though. Defender doesn't have to be set. That has nothing to do with legal guarding position. Yeah, and no. it is way more obfuscated and somewhat confusing set of criteria to establish who had position first. To a degree, "set" really does matter, because it is usually the default way to establish which player got to the space first. It is defacto impossible to get a charging call if you are still in motion when contact occurs. It may not be the rulebook definition, but it sure is in practice.
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Post by beaverstever on Mar 11, 2020 14:20:21 GMT -8
Lucas on front page of ESPN currently ... been a while
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 11, 2020 14:21:37 GMT -8
Defender doesn't have to be set. That has nothing to do with legal guarding position. Yeah, and no. it is way more obfuscated and somewhat confusing set of criteria to establish who had position first. To a degree, "set" really does matter, because it is usually the default way to establish which player got to the space first. It is defacto impossible to get a charging call if you are still in motion when contact occurs. It may not be the rulebook definition, but it sure is in practice. There's no yes and no about it. I've refereed a lot. You are not a good official if you are requiring the defender to have both feet planted to draw a charge. It's more beating them to the spot, then about have your feet planted there.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 11, 2020 14:23:28 GMT -8
I also do not think that the defender was set. He sold it for all that it was worth, though. Defender doesn't have to be set. That has nothing to do with legal guarding position. The defender is still moving forward to decrease distance, when Tres impacts him. From my vantage point, that is not a charge. That is a blocking foul. The defender invaded Tres' space and initiated contact. Charging has been over-called for decades at this point, though.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 11, 2020 14:24:57 GMT -8
Defender doesn't have to be set. That has nothing to do with legal guarding position. The defender is still moving forward to decrease distance, when Tres impacts him. From my vantage point, that is not a charge. That is a blocking foul. The defender invaded Tres' space and initiated contact. Charging has been over-called for decades at this point, though. That play was a good no call......limited contact as Tres was in the process of stopping and the defender was still moving into him. There wasn't a need to call a block there.
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Post by steinlager on Mar 11, 2020 14:29:58 GMT -8
The program needed that win. Could have been another frustrating loss, but victory was snatched. Now take another one tomorrow. The tall guard running point for Utah got flummoxed a bit by Beavs 1-3-1 defense. Good call by WT to go to it.
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Post by beaverinohio on Mar 11, 2020 14:30:55 GMT -8
Yeah, after running into him. Look at where the Utah player is set and where Tres ends up. It is passed where he was set up. I don't think it was a flop at all. I do think that he was there a tad too late, which is why I said if he hadn't taken that last half step up -- though without that half step, Tres probably would have been able to stop with minimal contact. Again I said it was a good no call, but I don't think that was a flop at all. I consider a flop to be when hardly any contact. There was more than enough contact for an offensive foul, he just wasn't there in time. Tres was under control - that looks like a major acting job to me as well. Yes, he did get contacted, but not enough to send him flying like he made it look. Tres body didn't move backwards on contact, didn't move at all even. Yes, you do see that get called, but would have been a bad one, IMO. Again, I don’t think it should have been called a charge. I also didn’t see the play on my TV at home, so maybe my opinion will change when I see highlight. But I ran it back and forth as slow as I could and when look where kid was set up and then look at where Tres is standing after he made his jump stop and contact he is clearly beyond where the D player was standing. Again, I agree good no call. And by the way I don’t think I’ve ever seen the offensive player’s body move backwards on contact on a play like that.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 11, 2020 14:36:04 GMT -8
Yeah, and no. it is way more obfuscated and somewhat confusing set of criteria to establish who had position first. To a degree, "set" really does matter, because it is usually the default way to establish which player got to the space first. It is defacto impossible to get a charging call if you are still in motion when contact occurs. It may not be the rulebook definition, but it sure is in practice. There's no yes and no about it. I've refereed a lot. You are not a good official if you are requiring the defender to have both feet planted to draw a charge. It's more beating them to the spot, then about have your feet planted there. I totally get that. There is what it should be, and what happens and I am saying there is a huge difference between how it is written up, and how it is called. I am by no means a basketball mega fan or anything, but I have never seen a defensive player in motion pull a charge. never. fair or not, it just doesn't happen. And when it is close, it is always going the offenses way. observationally, "Set" therefore has defacto weight.
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Post by Mike84 on Mar 11, 2020 14:57:03 GMT -8
Nice to see some balance in terms of contributions from 4 starters (Thompson was not good today) as well as lucas off the bench. Ball movement was really good rebounding needs some work. Wayne did make some good adjustments on D and with personnel in the second half so he deserves some credit. Nah. Other than during the honeymoon period, the coach gets blame for losing and credit for...well....just about nothing. Losses are the coach's fault and wins are luck or the fault of the OTHER coach.
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Post by tnarg33 on Mar 11, 2020 14:58:59 GMT -8
This seems like as good a time as any to do my charge rant. Almost never should a charge be called on a shot attempt, period. Per my Junior College sports officiating class I took in 2000 the definition of a foul is contact that gives the player initiating the contact an advantage. Trying to shoot while running into a guy is not advantageous and should be a no call. Likewise if you are standing there and a dude runs into you it's not a block, even if you are moving because you didn't initiate the contact. You can certainly call a charge on a drive if you lower the shoulder even if the defender is moving and you can get a block called for impeding a drive. But all this guys goes up for a shot and a dude under the basket gets crashed into is dumb. No call pretty much every time if I was officiating.
To tie that into the Tres play, he had already passed the ball so no advantage gained by him.
I f%#*ing hate block/charge.
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Mar 11, 2020 15:27:24 GMT -8
Well great final shot. Get them Tomorrow.
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Post by shelby on Mar 11, 2020 15:28:35 GMT -8
I loved seeing Plummers grin turn to chagrin . Never let one player beat you ! Especially if the two coaches are ex teammates
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 11, 2020 15:49:39 GMT -8
That's a total flop, the stuff that is killing basketball. Tres came to a complete stop. Yeah, after running into him. Look at where the Utah player is set and where Tres ends up. It is passed where he was set up. I don't think it was a flop at all. I do think that he was there a tad too late, which is why I said if he hadn't taken that last half step up -- though without that half step, Tres probably would have been able to stop with minimal contact. Again I said it was a good no call, but I don't think that was a flop at all. I consider a flop to be when hardly any contact. There was more than enough contact for an offensive foul, he just wasn't there in time. We're just gonna disagree. There is no way there is enough contact to knock the guy off his feet and onto the court about two feet backward. It's a total flop, the guy doesn't even go down hard and he's got his hands out bracing his "fall" before he's even halfway down. Tres is 6-7, 6-8 and built like a truck. If he hits you, you don't go down like that guy did. That kind of dead-fish flopping stuff by a help defender while making no attempt to play the ball is killing offensive basketball and shame on any ref who buys into that and similar acting jobs.
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