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Post by Werebeaver on Mar 6, 2020 13:07:53 GMT -8
I mean my "Yay?" was definitely intended to be a slight dig, so I guess I started it. 🙋🏼♂️ But some of y'all need to get a grip. And call me crazy, but I preferred when the program's all-time leading scorer was some guy named Gary (whatever happened to him anyway?). Your mileage may vary. ”Those were the days my friend...”
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Post by beavheart on Mar 6, 2020 13:08:30 GMT -8
Is it that much to ask that people take a minute after an emotional close loss before they spew a bunch of anger and frustration directed at our players and coaches? You can dress up your critical observations all you want, but you are being completely disingenuous if you are trying to claim that all the chatter after losses is just "observations of players shortcomings or things they need to work on". "ZR is a garbage player" "ZR is not a Pac12 athlete" "Tinkle just plays coaches sons because he doesn't care about the rest of the team" etc, etc, is NOT an educated criticism. It's weak sauce projected anger that says more about the person writing it than it does the athlete. Did YOU write that stuff Ba11? I have no idea, but you certainly don't hold back in your criticisms. And YOU KNOW the posters I'm talking about so spare us the "who me?" act. Not everything is ABOUT YOU. I know that's hard to believe. Again, just because you think you have a valid criticism doesn't mean you HAVE to say it on a public forum. People talk about being an adult on here. THAT is what being an adult is all about. Measuring whether what you have to say is actually going to make anything better, or are you just trying to make yourself feel better? I would suggest that for a lot of the posters that only seem to post when things go bad it really only has anything to do with the latter. And a lot of the time those posts go well beyond anything that you are talking about. You mean like your mini rant: "The fact that Gianni played well in the first half last night, and gave us the quickness that NO ONE else is giving this team, AND THEN didn't hardly sniff the floor in the 2nd half has knocked me squarely OFF of the Tinkle bandwagon. Talk about pissing down your own leg." Really wanted him to succeed. It's not happening, and things will only be worse next year. Big Wayne's day are numbered IMO, unless he pulls a complete 180." Pot Kettle? And, I can paste several more from your posts about players/opponents, referees, etc. It's a message board... IT is VERY VERY harmless, and the "outrage" is hilarious considering all the other things that such bleeding hearts could be focused on. And... funny you address none of the questions posed. Guessing you have not read enough throughout the to even know the facts yet make judgmental generalizations based on personal bias?? So do your criticisms of others belong in the same category? Why post them? Is it all about you and you definitions of what is right and wrong on a message board? Hypocrite much? Moral authority? The definitive answers to what "adult" is? Maybe your just in the wrong place Tenderheart? Just a hint, most "adults" realize fallacies and don't chide others in the same fashion in which they accuse. This tenderheart is simply tired of bashing our own players and coaches at every turn. Can't even have a congratulatory thread with out the resident hall monitor making sure we all keep our expectations in check. You're right. I get frustrated too. Not everything I write on here is as measured as I might like it to be, but I have never thrown a player under the bus like some on here. So, if we're just being completely insensitive and rigid I suppose the banner in Gill for Tres should read, Tres Tinkle Class of 2020 OSU all time leading scorer 2xxx points... ...but he wasn't really THAT good because he probably won't make it in the NBA. And Baseba11 can name at least 15 players at OSU that were better than him. Oh, and his dad was a bad coach who played favorites. Happy? Dude, I'm glad I don't live in your world.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 6, 2020 13:19:45 GMT -8
Huge props to Tres! That’s a great accomplishment. For me there’s never been any doubt that he’s given everything he has to Beaver BBall, and that alone deserves respect and a very big thank you. With that said, would I rank Tres in the pantheon of all time Beaver greats? I’m not so sure. That’s not so much a knock on Tres as it is respect for the guys who preceded him. Great players can carry a team to the post season. Would I put him up there with GP, AC Green, Lester C, Sitton, Steve Johnson, or Mel Counts? For me, it’s a definite no. The individual records are great, but in the end without team success it gets harder to judge. Maybe you’re the very best player on some very mediocre teams. I think for some it’s hard to put Tinkles records in context given our team history of mediocrity. Unfortunate for Tres, but fair enough given the context. All the players you named were surrounded by very good to great players - teams couldn't focus on you because they had to worry about everyone else. When you are the only really good player, the teams can try to shut you down and dare the other guys on the squad to make them pay for it. I think your argument is counter intuitive. I'd say not in the sense that the Pac8/10/12 has been much stronger in the past. Depth or not, a guys like KK and TT might not fair well/survived (just like 80's on???) vs guys like: Sean Elliott, O'Bannion, McLean, Miller, Keefe, AC, Abdur-Rahim, Love, Diogu, Sitton, Murray, Edwards, Lopez x2, Welp, Lister, Johnson, Ortiz, MacCullouch. The whole one and done has ruined the development of the highly skilled 3-4 year college basketball true superstar. To me anyway. Part of why stats are so deceiving when looked at to rank players. Stats yeah, but not as overall players, leaders, and the competition they faced.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 6, 2020 13:26:47 GMT -8
You mean like your mini rant: "The fact that Gianni played well in the first half last night, and gave us the quickness that NO ONE else is giving this team, AND THEN didn't hardly sniff the floor in the 2nd half has knocked me squarely OFF of the Tinkle bandwagon. Talk about pissing down your own leg." Really wanted him to succeed. It's not happening, and things will only be worse next year. Big Wayne's day are numbered IMO, unless he pulls a complete 180." Pot Kettle? And, I can paste several more from your posts about players/opponents, referees, etc. It's a message board... IT is VERY VERY harmless, and the "outrage" is hilarious considering all the other things that such bleeding hearts could be focused on. And... funny you address none of the questions posed. Guessing you have not read enough throughout the to even know the facts yet make judgmental generalizations based on personal bias?? So do your criticisms of others belong in the same category? Why post them? Is it all about you and you definitions of what is right and wrong on a message board? Hypocrite much? Moral authority? The definitive answers to what "adult" is? Maybe your just in the wrong place Tenderheart? Just a hint, most "adults" realize fallacies and don't chide others in the same fashion in which they accuse. This tenderheart is simply tired of bashing our own players and coaches at every turn. Can't even have a congratulatory thread with out the resident hall monitor making sure we all keep our expectations in check. You're right. I get frustrated too. Not everything I write on here is as measured as I might like it to be, but I have never thrown a player under the bus like some on here. So, if we're just being completely insensitive and rigid I suppose the banner in Gill for Tres should read, Tres Tinkle Class of 2020 OSU all time leading scorer 2xxx points... ...but he wasn't really THAT good because he probably won't make it in the NBA. And Baseba11 can name at least 15 players at OSU that were better than him. Oh, and his dad was a bad coach who played favorites. Happy? Dude, I'm glad I don't live in your world.So, first... let's add, extreme exaggeration to hypocrite and OSU basher. Second.... so am I!! Over-the-top, hypocrite do gooders that call out others for the same thing they do then invoke some arbitrary/imaginary level of offensiveness don't typically fair well in an intelligent debate/discussion. Hence, your quick and inane inclusion of some banner with caveats! Cuz, you know, that was what what was said! Implied? So... in closing you do include yourself in the "you know who you are"? Just checking...
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beaver94
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Post by beaver94 on Mar 6, 2020 13:39:17 GMT -8
I mean my "Yay?" was definitely intended to be a slight dig, so I guess I started it. 🙋🏼♂️ But some of y'all need to get a grip. And call me crazy, but I preferred when the program's all-time leading scorer was some guy named Gary (whatever happened to him anyway?). Your mileage may vary. How do Tres's accomplishments diminish the player that Payton was? Recognizing the achievement of one player doesn't change anything. Records are made to be broken. Do you know who the all time leading scorer in PAC-12 history is? I'll give you a hint, it isn't one of the many great players that have come through the PAC-12/10.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 6, 2020 13:41:29 GMT -8
I mean my "Yay?" was definitely intended to be a slight dig, so I guess I started it. 🙋🏼♂️ But some of y'all need to get a grip. And call me crazy, but I preferred when the program's all-time leading scorer was some guy named Gary (whatever happened to him anyway?). Your mileage may vary. How do Tres's accomplishments diminish the player that Payton was? Recognizing the achievement of one player doesn't change anything. Records are made to be broken. Do you know who the all time leading scorer in PAC-12 history is? I'll give you a hint, it isn't one of the many great players that have come through the PAC-12/10. You don't think Don MacLean was a great player? Wow... you're in the minority HS Parade AA Pac10 FOY Pac10 1st Team x3 Consensus 2nd Team AA UCLA HOF inductee Pac12 leading scorer 4th best FT% (over 800 attempts) in NCAA history 1st Rd Draft choice Wish OSU could get such a lesser Pac12 caliber guy. NBA most improved
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 6, 2020 13:45:22 GMT -8
Don McLean the all time scorer and singer of American pie. What a talent. Lol
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beaver94
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Post by beaver94 on Mar 6, 2020 13:53:26 GMT -8
How do Tres's accomplishments diminish the player that Payton was? Recognizing the achievement of one player doesn't change anything. Records are made to be broken. Do you know who the all time leading scorer in PAC-12 history is? I'll give you a hint, it isn't one of the many great players that have come through the PAC-12/10. You don't think Don MacLean was a great player? Wow... you're in the minority HS Parade AA Pac10 FOY Pac10 1st Team x3 Consensus 2nd Team AA UCLA HOF inductee Pac12 leading scorer 4th best FT% (over 800 attempts) in NCAA history 1st Rd Draft choice Wish OSU could get such a lesser Pac12 caliber guy. NBA most improved I guess I didn't mean that he wasn't a great player. Just that, like Tres, most people probably wouldn't put him as high on the list of top players in the conference. And by like Tres, I mean on OSU's list not the conference list.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 6, 2020 13:55:41 GMT -8
How do Tres's accomplishments diminish the player that Payton was? Recognizing the achievement of one player doesn't change anything. Records are made to be broken. Do you know who the all time leading scorer in PAC-12 history is? I'll give you a hint, it isn't one of the many great players that have come through the PAC-12/10. You don't think Don MacLean was a great player? Wow... you're in the minority HS Parade AA Pac10 FOY Pac10 1st Team x3 Consensus 2nd Team AA UCLA HOF inductee Pac12 leading scorer 4th best FT% (over 800 attempts) in NCAA history 1st Rd Draft choice Wish OSU could get such a lesser Pac12 caliber guy. NBA most improved He's their all time leading scorer, but borderline for top-10 as far as UCLA players go...similar to Tres. McLean did not have a strong NBA career. He only played in 319 games (less than 4 years of games)
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 6, 2020 14:01:47 GMT -8
You don't think Don MacLean was a great player? Wow... you're in the minority HS Parade AA Pac10 FOY Pac10 1st Team x3 Consensus 2nd Team AA UCLA HOF inductee Pac12 leading scorer 4th best FT% (over 800 attempts) in NCAA history 1st Rd Draft choice Wish OSU could get such a lesser Pac12 caliber guy. NBA most improved I guess I didn't mean that he wasn't a great player. Just that, like Tres, most people probably wouldn't put him as high on the list of top players in the conference. And by like Tres, I mean on OSU's list not the conference list. There is no denying what Tres has accomplished is remarkable. As I've stated before, in my opinion I think it is even more so in that playing for your Dad is tough. And, Wayne isn't the easiest of guys to play for let alone being your Dad. Early on there were articles about strained relations and some "house rules" being established. Not saying he could have done better under another coach as they obviously have found a happy balance, but under these circumstances it is tough. Kid doesn't perform he feels bad enough for himself and team. Top that off that it could effect Dad's career!?! Tough on a kid, any kid. He held up well...
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Post by nabeav on Mar 6, 2020 14:07:40 GMT -8
I mean my "Yay?" was definitely intended to be a slight dig, so I guess I started it. 🙋🏼♂️ But some of y'all need to get a grip. And call me crazy, but I preferred when the program's all-time leading scorer was some guy named Gary (whatever happened to him anyway?). Your mileage may vary. Tres Tinkle is the Roger Maris of OSU basketball. Got some people here wanting to put an asterisk next to his record. Nobody on this board has ever said that Tres was better than Gary Payton, just like nobody thinks Don MacLean is the greatest player in UCLA history. What schools in the Pac-12 can say their leading scorer is also their best player? Arizona (Sean Elliott)? Utah (Keith Van Horn)? That's probably it definitively.
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Post by sagebrush on Mar 6, 2020 14:24:45 GMT -8
I'd add Ron Lee from Oregon to your list. Their all time leading scorer and four time all Pac-8. If you gave him half a chance at the end of a game, he would stick a dagger in your heart.
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Post by gowenbeavs on Mar 6, 2020 14:40:21 GMT -8
Huge props to Tres! That’s a great accomplishment. For me there’s never been any doubt that he’s given everything he has to Beaver BBall, and that alone deserves respect and a very big thank you. With that said, would I rank Tres in the pantheon of all time Beaver greats? I’m not so sure. That’s not so much a knock on Tres as it is respect for the guys who preceded him. Great players can carry a team to the post season. Would I put him up there with GP, AC Green, Lester C, Sitton, Steve Johnson, or Mel Counts? For me, it’s a definite no. The individual records are great, but in the end without team success it gets harder to judge. Maybe you’re the very best player on some very mediocre teams. I think for some it’s hard to put Tinkles records in context given our team history of mediocrity. Unfortunate for Tres, but fair enough given the context. Well said
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Post by beavheart on Mar 6, 2020 15:42:24 GMT -8
This tenderheart is simply tired of bashing our own players and coaches at every turn. Can't even have a congratulatory thread with out the resident hall monitor making sure we all keep our expectations in check. You're right. I get frustrated too. Not everything I write on here is as measured as I might like it to be, but I have never thrown a player under the bus like some on here. So, if we're just being completely insensitive and rigid I suppose the banner in Gill for Tres should read, Tres Tinkle Class of 2020 OSU all time leading scorer 2xxx points... ...but he wasn't really THAT good because he probably won't make it in the NBA. And Baseba11 can name at least 15 players at OSU that were better than him. Oh, and his dad was a bad coach who played favorites. Happy? Dude, I'm glad I don't live in your world.So, first... let's add, extreme exaggeration to hypocrite and OSU basher. Second.... so am I!! Over-the-top, hypocrite do gooders that call out others for the same thing they do then invoke some arbitrary/imaginary level of offensiveness don't typically fair well in an intelligent debate/discussion. Hence, your quick and inane inclusion of some banner with caveats! Cuz, you know, that was what what was said! Implied? So... in closing you do include yourself in the "you know who you are"? Just checking... Not surprisingly, you make this about yourself when I plainly said that I am talking about other posters. You've taken my complaint about underhanded comments directed at our players even in a congratulatory thread, and turned it into me bellyaching about any fair criticism by you specifically. What's that about hyperbole? Dude, get over yourself. You are not the Benny's House Lone Ranger. I give you no credits for this whole exchange. And unless you are fine with random posters taking cheap shots at our own players for no good reason I really don't know what your point is.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 6, 2020 16:09:48 GMT -8
So, first... let's add, extreme exaggeration to hypocrite and OSU basher. Second.... so am I!! Over-the-top, hypocrite do gooders that call out others for the same thing they do then invoke some arbitrary/imaginary level of offensiveness don't typically fair well in an intelligent debate/discussion. Hence, your quick and inane inclusion of some banner with caveats! Cuz, you know, that was what what was said! Implied? So... in closing you do include yourself in the "you know who you are"? Just checking... Not surprisingly, you make this about yourself when I plainly said that I am talking about other posters. You've taken my complaint about underhanded comments directed at our players even in a congratulatory thread, and turned it into me bellyaching about any fair criticism by you specifically. What's that about hyperbole? Dude, get over yourself. You are not the Benny's House Lone Ranger.I give you no credits for this whole exchange. And unless you are fine with random posters taking cheap shots at our own players for no good reason I really don't know what your point is. Ha... interesting analogy... "lone ranger"? Again who posted the made up outrage to protect poor Tres? Nope... you made a weak, generic generalization only spouting "you know who you are". Meanings differ, hence as others and I stated in posting our opinions, what is this terrible treatment? Then again we find your part of this so called "treatment", but of course yours only a minor offense. It is you that has made no actual point. Just a random rant/soapbox whine with no evidence of the constant mistreatment suffered by Tres at the hands of this board. My point? It's an anonymous message board, not some highly intellectual discussion where "points" are made (although many try to keep score). However, many here have valid observations and opinions are welcome. As is calling out made up BS by whollier than thou hypocrites.
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